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Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)  
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

So it appears that SAAB is to be liquidated, with some of the operations sold to Shanghai Automotive, and other portions being sold to Spyker. The piecemeal dismantling of SAAB has begun.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11638 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

But what are architects going to buy now? Shame to see them go.


...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10677 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4122 times:

Wow, sad if true. Saab is one of my favorite car brands. I wouldnt miss anything if Dacia or Hyundai go under, but Saab?  Sad

User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39823 posts, RR: 74
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

Sorry to see any corporation fold and sad to see people lose their jobs.

That said, Saab has been a dead man walking for 30 years. There hasn't been a uniquely Saab design since 1979. General Motors just kept the name around longer.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4076 times:



Quoting Na (Reply 2):
I wouldnt miss anything if Dacia or Hyundai go under, but Saab?

Still living in the 1990's I see?  Yeah sure



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4068 times:



Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
of the operations sold to Shanghai Automotive, and other portions being sold to Spyker

Do you know what part(s) Spyker intends to buy? Considering the financial situation of Spyker I wonder if Saab would not be better of with GM!



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 5):
Do you know what part(s) Spyker intends to buy? Considering the financial situation of Spyker I wonder if Saab would not be better of with GM!

Nope. WSJ had an article on it today (Sunday), but I won't bother quoting it, as it pretty much said "We don't know anything except that the transactions occurred." It doesn't say who got what.

It does sound to me, though, that Beiing Auto got much of the SAAB intellectual property (that which was not "licensed" from Opel) and that Spyker may be more interested in the facilities, but there was nothing concrete.

I do need to make a correction to the initial post, though. It was Beijing Automotive, not SAIC Shanghai Automotive.

[Edited 2009-12-13 17:39:09]


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineCzbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

I can't pretend that I'm not really angry about this. In the face of the homogenization of the transport-appliance called the car, Saab was one of the only marques that stood out.

It might have been a 'cult' car in its past but it was a damned good machine- with a pedigree that was so 'not Toyota' if you know what I mean. You knew there was passion and a sense of pride behind their product.

But then it just became another plasticky GM blob producer. It was bleached into mediocrity and blandness by a foreign corporate culture with no vision or direction and now it's lost.

I remember my first ride in a Saab- to see the ignition in the centre between the seats somehow made the ride so much more exotic.

Then to see the last Saab stationwagon- a Subaru with a Nordic badge.... yuck. That was the end of the end in my eye.

Good luck to all the autoworkers who laboured under incompetent management. I hope they all find work that support them and their families.

And good luck to Opel workers. They're not out of the woodwork yet.....


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3956 times:



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 7):
Then to see the last Saab stationwagon- a Subaru with a Nordic badge.... yuck. That was the end of the end in my eye.

You think this was worse than the Trailblazer with the Saab badge?



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3946 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
You think this was worse than the Trailblazer with the Saab badge?

Even the newest Saab model (the 2010 Saab 9-5) is a reskinned Opel Insignia. Sad end to the brand, IMHO.

Big version: Width: 750 Height: 469 File size: 58kb
2010 SAAB 9-5



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3936 times:
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I only drove a Saab once. It was a decent ride.

IIRC, wasnt their motto something about built by pilots or something to that end?

Im not a pilot, but was there anything remotely similar going from a Saab to any aircraft? Anything similar in terms of ergonomics, style, etc?

Just read:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/090f9c1e-e850-11de-8a02-00144feab49a.html

Im sorry to hear about the impending job losses.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13072 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

Yes, I guess this is one sad Saab story  ashamed 
The fact is that Saab automotive had become too much like other cars, hurt by the rise of Japanese brands, based in a country with excessively high production costs and so on. It is sad to see another brand die this year but that is reality in the car business. Skol.


User currently offlineOlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3926 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 9):
Even the newest Saab model (the 2010 Saab 9-5) is a reskinned Opel Insignia.

Is this a bad car?


User currently offlineCzbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3919 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
You think this was worse than the Trailblazer with the Saab badge?

OMG- I didn't even know about that abomination.


User currently offlineStasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3880 times:



Quoting OlegShv (Reply 12):
Is this a bad car?

Well, I haven't seen any road tests in the automotive press on the new 9-5 as of yet, but I must say that the Opel Insignia has gotten very good reviews. But the question then becomes, why pay a higher price for the Saab when the Insignia is as good a car with a cheaper pricetag?

By the way, the Insignia in the U.S. is known as the new Buick Century with an estimate base price of approximately $24K USD



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3865 times:



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 14):
But the question then becomes, why pay a higher price for the Saab when the Insignia is as good a car with a cheaper pricetag?

Well, some people say that Audis are nothing more than gussied-up Volkswagens, but Audis still sell well despite this. (Anyone who has driven related models from both marques knows this to not be the case.)



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8216 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3862 times:



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 7):
It might have been a 'cult' car in its past but it was a damned good machine- with a pedigree that was so 'not Toyota' if you know what I mean.

Saab wasn't a car for the average American consumer to think about. It cost too much.

So Saab was a good car. Volvo is a good car. But their ego got away from them when it came to pricing. Something about crossing the Atlantic, I guess, makes a car brand feel they are worth more than they are. My feeling is that the Volvo S40 is about $10,000 too expensive. Drove one for a week. Decent car, but not something worth $30,000+.

Hard reality today is that Korea is re-fucusing our attention on car pricing. They picked a good time for a surge, with our economy the way it is. Geez, even Toyota's are flopping around in the $30,000 range like they were a BMW or something.


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3859 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Well, some people say that Audis are nothing more than gussied-up Volkswagens, but Audis still sell well despite this. (Anyone who has driven related models from both marques knows this to not be the case.)

Some of the SAAB's were pretty ordinary. Take the 9-3 Viggen convertible. It might have been quick in a straight line, but a BMW 328i convertible was far superior to the torque-steering Swede, even if it did have much less power.

The reputation of the brand suffered, and here, relatively few people purchased them, flocking to Audi, VW, BMW and Mercedes Benz instead. Sad to see the brand go.  Sad


User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3805 times:

According to Autoweek (NL) BAIC will buy:

* production line for current 9-3
* production line for previous 9-5 (it's not yet known if production will resume)
* drive-train technology

According to the same article Spyker is still in the running to buy Saab. The article is a bit ambiguous but I think they mean the brandname/logo only.

Sorry, Dutch source only:
http://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/13...ker-nog-steeds-in-gesprek-met-Saab



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineCzbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3745 times:



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
My feeling is that the Volvo S40 is about $10,000 too expensive. Drove one for a week. Decent car, but not something worth $30,000+.

A point very well taken. But Saab didn't necessarily need to break into the American market. They were mostly a European brand for the European market- they didn't make very many cars.

Then along came GM and tried to turn it into a Europeanized Buick/Olds/Caddy seemingly to compete against VW in the US. The plan failed. Partly because of price. Partly because they became typically GM plasticky blobs with no character. How much research and innovation money was poured into Saab? I doubt much at all. Its corporate masters sucked pretty much everything, including the life-blood right out of the firm.

You might be right about Volvo- but then again.... do they make as many cars as VW for the American market too? At least Volvo continues with research and innovation. And you have to agree, they're making some of the most strikingly designed (dare I say, sexiest looking) sedans in the North American market right now.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3737 times:



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 19):
You might be right about Volvo- but then again.... do they make as many cars as VW for the American market too? At least Volvo continues with research and innovation. And you have to agree, they're making some of the most strikingly designed (dare I say, sexiest looking) sedans in the North American market right now.

The big difference between Volvo and Saab is that Ford uses Volvo's platforms as the basis for many of their own. This is why I don't believe Ford should sell Volvo: They will lose much engineering talent.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

The only Saab I drove was the 9-3 convertible, and I was not impress that much.

That said, it's a shame to see them disappearing from the automotive landscape.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10372 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

So, of all the subsidiaries that GM told the feds it was going to shed, only the sale of Hummer has come to fruition. Makes me wonder if these weren't just all pie in the sky promises made to the feds to make sure they got the bailout money.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3702 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 22):
So, of all the subsidiaries that GM told the feds it was going to shed, only the sale of Hummer has come to fruition. Makes me wonder if these weren't just all pie in the sky promises made to the feds to make sure they got the bailout money.

What are you talking about? Pontiac and Saturn are gone, gone, gone.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7246 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3687 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Well, some people say that Audis are nothing more than gussied-up Volkswagens, but Audis still sell well despite this.

Those people would be idiots, Audi only share two platform with the rest of the group, the Gold platform for the A4 and TT, and the Q7 uses a much modified version of the Tourag/Cayenne platform. Audi is also the most profitable member of the company.


Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 19):
At least Volvo continues with research and innovation. And you have to agree, they're making some of the most strikingly designed (dare I say, sexiest looking) sedans in the North American market right now.

I agreee and have just replaced my wifes 2008 3 series touring with a V70, it's not as much fun to drive but it's more comfortible, carries more stuff and my wife loves it, it's also a handsome beast.


25 Mayor : Well, we knew that Pontiac would be eliminated, but Saturn was supposed to be sold to the Penske group and that fell apart. Hummer was sold, Opel was
26 N328KF : I think selling Opel would have been a mistake, for the same reason that it would be a mistake for Ford to sell Volvo.
27 Mayor : Well, that's true, but I wonder if the original intent was to actually sell Opel or just make it seem that way to make it more palatable to the Feds.
28 PlaneWasted : That's an unfair statement. The older Saab 9-5 based on the Opel vectra was one of the safest car money could buy. The vectra was not. Actually it wo
29 Flighty : Ken, I totally agree with you. GM ruined Saab partly because they stickered the cars WAY too expensive. The 9-3 for example today stickers up to $45,
30 Matthew11 : It is sad to see the Saab brand go. I own a Saab 9-5, it is a great car. Drove it across Canada for 33 hours...it was a smooth ride all the way and is
31 MAH4546 : North America - even before GM - has been Saab's largest market outside Sweden since the 1970s. Saab shone during the 1990's thanks to GM. The proble
32 Czbbflier : I stand corrected. I guess a good shine is beauty in the eye of the beholder. I watched as the Saab morphed from a strikingly stylish car with charac
33 Rabenschlag : I am always shocked when confronted with American price standards. The basic VW Golf (bare bones, 1.4 liter four banger) costs 24.000 $ incl. VAT in
34 Post contains links EddieDude : And U.S. full-time college professors. And it is, at least by the looks of it, a really cool car. I agree completely. I am glad GM is keeping Opel. A
35 Aero145 : WHAT?! I thought you were BMW-sensible!
36 Post contains links Type-Rated : Now I think they should bring this model back, the Saab 96! It was the ultimate in a strange car. Very reliable , though quirky. http://www.youtube.co
37 N243NW : Wow...that's the first time I can say I've ever seen a two-stroke automobile. I'd like to see that pass California emissions standards today...
38 ExFATboy : I think your comparison may be off - the GTI with no options, per Volkswagen's US website, has a MSRP of $23,489 before tax and registration - that w
39 EddieDude : It is official now. The talks between GM and Spyker failed. GM will wind Saab up. All outstanding vehicle warranties and all debts to suppliers will b
40 Bongodog1964 : Only for those with a love of a make which even the vast majority of Swedes avoided Very sad day for my mate who bought a nearly new 9-3 two weeks ag
41 KiwiRob : I was and wanted a 5 series touring to replace the much too small as a family car 3 series touring, but even on run out the current model was going t
42 Flighty : The cars were not very good, but it was a meaningful company with a point of view. Just because GM could not run it, they decided to kill it. Saab co
43 EddieDude : Tata is the owner of Jaguar and Land Rover. And I believe they are swimming in red ink. Aston Martin is owned by a consortium of investors from Brita
44 LTBEWR : Another sad end of an automotive name with a unique herritage. I bet the Chinese companies will go in paying cents on the dollar (or equivilent) and b
45 Post contains links Petertenthije : In the 2nd quarter of this financial year JLR reported a profit of 4,7 million USD. Can only provide a Dutch source: http://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuw
46 EddieDude : Thanks Peter, well, that is just good news. That a niche luxury car maker that was recently sold by its parent due to continuous heavy losses is able
47 Fbgdavidson : Funny you mention this as my brother is looking at getting a Golf R when they come out next year. For the spec he is looking at it'd be £38,000!! Fo
48 KiwiRob : The car magazines and tuners are going nuts over the Genesis Coupe, it's becoming a popular drifting car.
49 Bongodog1964 : " target=_blank>http://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/13...jfers TATA bought JLR at the peak of the economic cycle, within months they were knocking on t
50 Mika : This is a very sad situation for this country (Sweden) and the city of Trollhättan in particular where Saab first started and where they still are ma
51 Sudden : SAAB to be no more. Might not have been a huge brand in the global auto industry, but it sure is in Sweden. Ask a foreigner what they think about when
52 Mayor : The Corvair had a turbo in 1962. I'm not sure if that was the first application, but it certainly was before SAAB.
53 Sudden : Clarification from my side: SAAB was first with fitting turbo's to regular production cars. Aim for the sky! Sudden
54 Post contains images Andaman : Sad news... SAAB has been a BIG brand in Finland too. Several SAAB models were manufactured in Finland 1969-2003, from the SAAB 95 to the sport model
55 L410Turbolet : Enthusiasts or rather badge snobs?
56 KiwiRob : The Corvair was a regular production car, although thanks to Nader it was given a bad reputation which it didn't deserve. It is one of the best looki
57 Sudden : Actually it wasn't counted as such, so therefore SAAB was the first regular production car that used turbo successfully. Aim for the sky! Sudden
58 EddieDude : That applies to Toyotas as well hehe. I just saw pics of the new Sonata and I get the impression that this car will give Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys
59 SAAB900 : A very sad day for the Brand,all its follower's(of which there are plenty!),the workers at Trollhatten & all the others around the world who depend on
60 N243NW : I was doing a little research last night and came upon the "Sensonic" gearbox. Looks like a unique idea that unfortunately wasn't as bulletproof as Sa
61 Sudden : haha...the classic turbo lag. First nothing.....then nothing.....then everything happened. I can't really agree on a "sh*t yourself" feeling, but sti
62 SAAB900 : It was when you were a young lad & that was the most powerfull thing that you'd ever driven! Dave(SAAB900).
63 Post contains links KiwiRob : It may not be curtains for Saab, Spyker have made another offer which GM have until the end of Monday to accept. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/n.
64 Post contains links StasisLAX : News of Saab's death may have been premature! Spyker executives have stated to the media that: “We are returning to the table with a renewed offer,
65 Flighty : It would be nice, but GM has plenty of offers for Saab. GM just doesn't want to sell Saab to the Chinese, the Russians or anybody who can turn it int
66 KiwiRob : If GM don't want to see I woulod like to see the Swedish govt nationalism Saab then onsell it to Spyker or anyone else (other than the Chinese) who wa
67 Bongodog1964 : If the Swedish govt nationalised it, this would result in the immediate loss of access to GM's parts bin. No floor pans no suspension and running gea
68 SAAB900 : Unfortunatly I think that GM see the potential in SAAB but cant be arsed doing anything about it! Which is the way they've always been with them & be
69 Post contains links TSS : The Oldsmobile F-85 Jetfire with a turbocharged V8 engine was introduced about a month before the Corvair Monza Spyder, making the Jetfire the first
70 Bongodog1964 : I've just been looking at the Spyker website and reading their financial reports for the past 5 years or so. They make GM look like the very model of
71 Post contains images Aero95 : Good man! Thanks for giving me the perfect excuse to show off my beauty. She's a SAAB 9-5 Aero 2.3 High Output Turbo (that spells HOT ) She's saying:
72 Bongodog1964 : I can't recall this being the sort of phrase that 1st came to mind after experiencing a ride in an early 900 turbo. I don't think I got beyond "oh f-
73 KiwiRob : Yes it was, the turbo was a factory option on the Monza Coupe and Spyder from 1962 model year on. It was indeed a production car.
74 Post contains images Mayor : I would say that being built from 1960-1969 makes the Corvair a regular production car. Actually, in the pre-65 Corvairs, if you ordered a Spyder, yo
75 SAAB900 : Aero95, Nice car & nice user name.....but not quite as good as my user name! Bongodog1964, You should try a 99 Turbo, thats even more brutal! I never
76 Pellegrine : IMO, SAAB was dead years ago. I like their brand. I just think in comparison to the Mercedes-Benz C/E/CLK/SLK and BMW 3/5/Z3/Z4...there has been no co
77 Mayor : That, and the fact that Volvos started to look like real autos and not just the box they came in.
78 RJAF : I hate to see SAAB go.. I own a 2005 SAAB 9-3 ARC and would not trade it for anything. Its a powerful and safe car with sexy looks. Best value for mon
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