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Rant:Australian Student Visas - Modern Day Racism?  
User currently offlineCabso1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Right, so I have to apply for a student visa to Oz. Due to my nationality, I am assessed as Level 4 on their student visa nationality classification system (http://www.immi.gov.au/students/student-visa-assessment-levels.htm)

Each of the levels (there are 4) are considered differently. Being Level 4, I am expected to gather together 3 years' worth of tuition fees and living expenses and park them in an account for 6 months; after which I should then apply for a student visa. Where in, I shall be pre-vetted to see if I'm genuine. The way the vetting works is that I have to submit an application form, my university offer letter and the fee payment of AUD540 to the Australian High Commission, and without an interview, they will decide my fate. Should I be classed as genuine, I have to then pay the university fees, do an IELTS test, a medical and submit all those documents back to the High Commission for them to do a second assessment, at which time I may still be rejected.

So all in all, they expect me to park close to AUD130K in an account for 6 months, then wait a further 1-3 for them to decide if I should be let into the country to study whilst scores of other students who can't coin together a sentence of passable English attend bogus colleges in the back alleys of SYD, MEL and BNE, and then succeed to obtain PR.

You ask why I deem it as racist if they have a few extra requirements? A student from a Level 1 country, only needs to submit a declaration that they have the finance required, do not need an IELTS test, do not need to do a medical, do not have to go through the vetting procedure, basically do not need to do anything that is required of Level 4 countries. The same people from those 'Level 1' countries do not know the difference between your and you're...

If any of you say that I have the option of not going to Australia to study, yes I do have that option and I intend to use it too if nothing works out in Australia.

For those people who claim that the above is too long, all I'm saying is that like the claim: no two people are the same, no two countrymen are the same, don't judge a book by the cover, and don't be preposterous in your demands!

Edit: To say that I've not lived in my country of citizenship since 1997.

Disclaimer: I may have used racism to gain your attention and I do not mean it in the same way as Indians used it to claim racist attacks.

[Edited 2009-12-17 03:31:27 by cabso1]

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

The 'levels' are probably based on sound experience the Australian Government has. It may seem harsh that you have to jump through extra hoops, but it's not just Australia's fault.

Bottom line, going there is a privilege and not a right. Look elsewhere if you don't like the rules.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3237 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
The 'levels' are probably based on sound experience the Australian Government has. It may seem harsh that you have to jump through extra hoops, but it's not just Australia's fault.

You are da** right. There is statistical evidence to back up the classification of countries, I don't know if its public, but its there and IMHO they let people in far too easily too.

Lets just say that in my personal experience about 70% of international students, that I personally teach, are a waste of space in a class room, compared to about 35% of local students who are a waste of space in the class room. If that offends anybody, sorry, but that is my personal experience.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

Australia has a long and deep history of only wanting 'white', European immigration (so did the USA). They fear a massive influx of people from throughout Asia who would use student visas to stay in Australia rather than go back to their home countries overwhelmingly changing the traditional European mix of people there. By placing onorous financial and technical requirements on such person more likely to use student visas for permanate immigration, they hope to limit them becoming residents and later citizens. I recall when I visited Australia in 1989 ( I am from the USA) I had to get a tourist visa which also required modest financial proof, a outbound travel ticket and no criminal records (especially drug crimes).

User currently offlineCabso1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
The 'levels' are probably based on sound experience the Australian Government has. It may seem harsh that you have to jump through extra hoops, but it's not just Australia's fault.

True, and it's not. It's the fault of the people who have abused the immigration system in Australia.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 2):
Lets just say that in my personal experience about 70% of international students, that I personally teach, are a waste of space in a class room, compared to about 35% of local students who are a waste of space in the class room. If that offends anybody, sorry, but that is my personal experience.

And I agree. I've seen them all, from the hard working stereotypical over achieving Asians to the daddy sponsored time wasters. All I'm saying is that instead of arranging everybody according to what level they are, either treat them all the same, or have 2 levels: High risk (ETA countries) and low risk (non-ETA countries)

A Vietnamese is considered Level 2 while Chinese are considered Level 4 and people from HK SAR are considered Level 1. What I think is that all 3 of them are equally high risk.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Australia has a long and deep history of only wanting 'white', European immigration (so did the USA). They fear a massive influx of people from throughout Asia who would use student visas to stay in Australia rather than go back to their home countries overwhelmingly changing the traditional European mix of people there. By placing onorous financial and technical requirements on such person more likely to use student visas for permanate immigration, they hope to limit them becoming residents and later citizens. I recall when I visited Australia in 1989 ( I am from the USA) I had to get a tourist visa which also required modest financial proof, a outbound travel ticket and no criminal records (especially drug crimes).

While it does have that past, what Australia can do is to stop that route to permanent residency. I don't see why they *need* to make it easier for people to immigrate by doing a crappy degree from an unknown institution.

I have visited Australia, and I don't care if it offends, but Sydney feels like it's actually downtown Shanghai and Mumbai.

[Edited 2009-12-17 04:03:24 by cabso1]

User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5715 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3224 times:
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Quoting Cabso1 (Thread starter):
Due to my nationality,

Cabso, what is your nationality?

From what I understand of the Dept Immigration and Citizenship's form 1219i Cook Islands students should rank level 3 and taking into account the relationship with NZ possibly level 2.

Having said that the government reserves the right to vary the assessment levels based on visa compliance records...

Quote:
To determine the Assessment Level of a particular country and education sector, the department examines that group's compliance with their visa conditions and other indicators of their immigration risk in the previous year.

Where these statistical indicators show that a group has a higher level of immigration risk over a sustained period, the department responds to this trend by raising the Assessment Level of that group. In effect, this requires applicants to submit a higher level of evidence to support their claims that they wish to study in Australia.

The part that probably hurts you is the section I highlighted, statistics so beloved of bureaucrats do not help the cause of a sample group as small as Cook Islands students must be. If a couple of your countrymen violated their visa conditions it would skew the stats far more than a larger number from some other countries.
There are student "enclaves" in Sydney and Melbourne with national groups larger than the entire population of the Cook Islands.

I am not saying this is a good situation or that it is fair to you but just the way it is.

Hope you find a way to study.

Cheers

P.S. the "Racism" in the title did cause the defensive juices to flow!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCabso1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3218 times:



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 5):

:D I'm sorry, because my flag misled you. I've just spend six months in NZ but I didn't want to put an NZ flag (for a totally pedantic reason) so I opted for the Cook Islands.

I'm actually Pakistani, and I live in both Singapore and Malaysia.

With regards to your point, yes unfortunately that's the way it is. When a select few do not obey the rules, the entire population has to pay.

I stress to anyone reading this thread, I am only complaining about the disparity between the nationalities and levels of immigration. I just wish for Australia to treat everyone similarly, because someone from a Level 1 nation has just as much a chance to violate their conditions of visa.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3207 times:



Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 6):

:D I'm sorry, because my flag misled you. I've just spend six months in NZ but I didn't want to put an NZ flag (for a totally pedantic reason) so I opted for the Cook Islands.

I'm actually Pakistani, and I live in both Singapore and Malaysia.

Theres your answer... quite simply Australia is so popular a place to either live or study in that they can afford to pick and choose who they let in, and be careful in doing so. If you were really from the Cook Islands you could have gone to Australia via New Zealand as Cook Islanders have free entry into New Zealand.
Plain and simple statistical information would let you see that Pakistani citizens have a disproportionate rate of either overstaying in Australia or abusing their Visa's in some form or other. Now whilst this is probably not you or many Pakistani's, the sheer fact that Pakistani or citizens of several particular countries do violate their visas means Australia and several other Western countries are more careful on who they let in.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5715 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3207 times:
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Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 6):
because someone from a Level 1 nation has just as much a chance to violate their conditions of visa.

But they don't!
I don't have the stats but I am pretty sure the dept has the details that say you are wrong.

Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 4):
I have visited Australia, and I don't care if it offends, but Sydney feels like it's actually downtown Shanghai and Mumbai.

With all due respect, now who is sounding racist?



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3196 times:



Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 6):
I'm actually Pakistani, and I live in both Singapore and Malaysia.

That is another issues and indeed racist. I would suggest that Australia has a deep fear of anyone from a mainly Islamic faith country, (Bali Bombings killing many Australians) fearful of terrorism and a faith not of the traditional Judeo-Christian. As a result, the politicans are answering to thier voters to limit access to anyone from 'Islamic' countries.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

Then again we could go to a system of giving you a dictation test with the reader speaking in Welsh - Celtic that is.

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/australia/pdf/populating_aus.pdf

Meanwhile

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
LTBEWR

might like to catch up with the 1960s.

StealthZ is all too right, we have excellent stats on many countries, but maybe not so good on the Cook Is. It is true however, that even after the stats are in some decisions to not fully adhere to what the stats would tell you. For example, overstayers are very low from Indonesia, but you would not guess it from the palaver for Indonesian nationals.

Equally, if there were a factor applied for financial finanglings, there would be probably be a discount applied to mainland Chinese. But that might be a grumpy remark prompted by an horrific murder in Sydney about 5 months ago.

Basically you are objecting to immigration being based on paying through the nose for it, and there you would have the support of most Australians.

If you want to follow a really sad tale try the trilogy of films made by Robin Anderson and Bob Connolly

First contact, Joe Leahy's neighbours and Black Harvest.

At one stage Joe has a successful coffee plantation and a shared venture with local tribesmen, then he has a doubtful joint venture and acceptance as a business migrant on the basis of the value of his plantation and at the end of Black Harvest he has a civil war, the banks foreclosed on his loans and he lost his migrant status.

http://aso.gov.au/titles/documentaries/black-harvest/clip2/

Hope things are better for you Cabso1


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5715 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3183 times:
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Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
That is another issues and indeed racist. I would suggest that Australia has a deep fear of anyone from a mainly Islamic faith country

No it isn't and your suggestion would be misplaced, Australian immigration does not discriminate on the basis of religion.

If you were familiar with the numbers of Middle Easter and South Asian immigrants of Islamic backgrounds that do meet the immigration requirements you would not have made that claim.

In fact if you looked at the assessment levels of different countries you will find many Muslim countries with lower assessment levels than some non-muslim countries, eg Malaysia level 1, Indonesia Level 2.

Pakistan being level 4 has little(nothing) to do with it being a Muslim nation but more to do with visa compliance.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3155 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 6):
I'm actually Pakistani, and I live in both Singapore and Malaysia.

That is another issues and indeed racist. I would suggest that Australia has a deep fear of anyone from a mainly Islamic faith country, (Bali Bombings killing many Australians) fearful of terrorism and a faith not of the traditional Judeo-Christian. As a result, the politicians are answering to their voters to limit access to anyone from 'Islamic' countries.

Well dead wrong there. I can tell you from personal experience there is no hostility to Muslims, indeed almost the opposite a polite curiosity.

I got three seasons greetings cards yesterday. One was an official Atheists society card, one was from a Muslim family and the third from a Buddhist family. Two of the cards from from Aus and one from the US. You have to guess the rest.

Where the hell is that traditional Judeo-Christian whatsit - I know it was somewhere!  angel 

Anyway, suggest away as much as you like. We considerably admire the efforts of Detachment 88. And do you know why the anti-terrorist detachment of the Indonesian police are called Detachment 88? It is supposed to be because that is how many Australians were killed in the Bai I bombings.

Just like Americans, we really hate Indonesia, it being a Muslim dominated country and all:

http://www.expat.or.id/info/howmanyexpatsinindonesia.html

And some time after the May 1998 riots, expat numbers in Indonesia were reported as:

* 8,000-12,000 Americans, living mostly in Jakarta
* 20,000 Australians (though DFAT says 8,000 in Jakarta & 4,000 in Bali)
* 3,300 French; estimated 2,300 of them in Jakarta
* 4,000 British
* 500 Thais
* 10,000-11,000 South Koreans
* Japanese ????


AND
In 2004, immigration figures showed just under 1500 expatriates living in Bandung.

In June 2004, the manpower ministry relased data that the number of expatriates working in Indonesia had drastically decreased to around 17,000 in Dec. 2003, from 50,000 in 1999.

An online spreadsheet at the Manpower Ministry (which is now offline) shows the 2005 total of expatriates listed as 50,900 expatriates working in Indonesia!


Don't miss the hysterical line from the Malaysian Embassy.


User currently offlineCabso1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

Funnily enough, while preparing my answer, I've come across this: Stats as at 2005 http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...ng-the-border/pdf/mtb-chapter5.pdf While I understand this is not the way in which assessment levels are determined, or in any means definitive, it's funny how Greece, an assessment level 1 country has the 3rd highest overstayer rate. And might I add, Pakistan is not even on the list in any form. Oh and here too: http://www.visabureau.com/australia/...-overstayers-are-english-lads.aspx

It's the perception that because such and such is from Asia, they have a higher probability of staying back in the country. And while this may be true some of the times (as it might be in the case of Pakistan or India), it's not a definitive answer to imposing what is effectively an embargo on students coming in.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 7):
Theres your answer... quite simply Australia is so popular a place to either live or study in that they can afford to pick and choose who they let in, and be careful in doing so. If you were really from the Cook Islands you could have gone to Australia via New Zealand as Cook Islanders have free entry into New Zealand.
Plain and simple statistical information would let you see that Pakistani citizens have a disproportionate rate of either overstaying in Australia or abusing their Visa's in some form or other. Now whilst this is probably not you or many Pakistani's, the sheer fact that Pakistani or citizens of several particular countries do violate their visas means Australia and several other Western countries are more careful on who they let in.

Not too sure on this, but if I was from the Cook Isles, I'd probably be entitled to NZ Citizenship, which would then mean I wouldn't need a visa to be in Australia.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 8):
Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 4):
I have visited Australia, and I don't care if it offends, but Sydney feels like it's actually downtown Shanghai and Mumbai.

With all due respect, now who is sounding racist?

I'm not sure if that is racist, I'm merely commenting on the ethnic make up of Sydney. If that is racist, my bad  Smile

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 8):
Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 6):
because someone from a Level 1 nation has just as much a chance to violate their conditions of visa.

But they don't!
I don't have the stats but I am pretty sure the dept has the details that say you are wrong.

Bad wording, was rushing out of the door. I think what I meant to say was, that they are prone to overstaying. It's funny how a country, which is classed as Level 1 in Australia, has the record of the highest number of overstayers in New Zealand.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 6):
I'm actually Pakistani, and I live in both Singapore and Malaysia.

That is another issues and indeed racist. I would suggest that Australia has a deep fear of anyone from a mainly Islamic faith country, (Bali Bombings killing many Australians) fearful of terrorism and a faith not of the traditional Judeo-Christian. As a result, the politicans are answering to thier voters to limit access to anyone from 'Islamic' countries.

Sorry, I do not believe that. In fact I refuse to believe that, Australia is by no means racist. For the 10 days that I was there, what I saw was people living in harmony. No one said anything out of the blue, except a drunk from the pub, who well, was drunk so I can't that against Australia. People are not racist, and they should raise the racist flag as they deem fit.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
Hope things are better for you Cabso1



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 5):
Hope you find a way to study.

Thank you. I'm not holding anything against the country, just against other Pakistanis who choose to exploit the country's hospitality and 'ruin the statistics'.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7566 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3101 times:



Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 13):
Not too sure on this, but if I was from the Cook Isles, I'd probably be entitled to NZ Citizenship, which would then mean I wouldn't need a visa to be in Australia.

Cook Islanders are New Zealand Citizens and are therefore entitled to a New Zealand passport. So if you were lucky enough to be a Cook Islander instead of Pakistani then you wouldn't have the problem you have now.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1270 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

It not fun to park that amont of money in an account but as others have said that rule is there for a reason.
Being Pakistani isnt easy when it comes to any form of migration. Even for student visas.
Mind you, having worked several conferences I can understand why the Australians have these rules.
When I was part of the organising comittee for one of AsiaPacifics largest IT conferences we got about 100 inquiries for attendence from Pakistan during the first three days.
Apparently that was the norm and NZ immigration rejected the lot on the basis that most would simply overstay and werent genuine attendees.
Its sad that other Pakistanis are doing such things because it really destroys the oppurtunities for the ones that follow the rules. Only Bangladeshis and Nigerians were screened harder than pakistan by NZIS at that time.

Also when it comes to Pakistan and immigration, I think the Pakistani that arrived in the UK have given Pakistan a bad rep internationally. Add on the madrassas etc and there will always be strict rules for Pakistanis.

In regards to Greek, Chinese and Indians that overstay. There numbers might be high but the number of nationals from these countries that behave are very high as well. Besides China and to a lesser degree India is big business in education for Australia and NZ and will be treated differently to others. The shear numbers of students ensures that.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

They are concerned that certain countries ovrstay their visa. Far from bring a racist policy, it is a reflection that people from different countries have different probabilities of compliance with Australian law. If people from your country have burned Australia in the past, go to them with your critique. But even America is much more permissive. Virtually any student is allowed to come in.

User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5715 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2992 times:
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Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 15):
Besides China and to a lesser degree India is big business in education for Australia and NZ and will be treated differently to others. The shear numbers of students ensures that.

But they aren't treated differently despite the large number of students and the perceived importance to the economy India and China* are assessed at Level 4 as is Pakistan.

Cheers

* Except for the 2 SARs , Hong Kong and Macau which are level 1



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 7):
Plain and simple statistical information would let you see that Pakistani citizens have a disproportionate rate of either overstaying in Australia or abusing their Visa's in some form or other. Now whilst this is probably not you or many Pakistani's, the sheer fact that Pakistani or citizens of several particular countries do violate their visas means Australia and several other Western countries are more careful on who they let in.

That is unfortunately true. I used to work at the International office in our uni in Adelaide and I've personally come across 5 students from Pakistan who've overstayed on their visas. Also the fact that many students from the sub-continent (esp. India) come here on student visas but never attend classes because they're working full-time at the local 7-11.

Another popular scam is to find someone coming to study in Australia (usually a girl), and pay her $50-100,000, get married on paper, get a spouse visa and once here they go their seperate ways...this leads to all kinds of crappy people entering the country, because on a spouse visa you don't have to do IELTS etc etc. This scam is very popular among Indians here.

All these scams have led to a tightening of the immigration system, especially with student visas because they want to make sure the people entering the country on a student visa are genuine students with an intention and the commitment to study.

Anyway..hope you can find a way to study here in Oz Cabso1..good luck!

[Edited 2009-12-17 14:08:09]


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User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

At the risk of being obvious, I wonder what is wrong with Australia exercising her sovereignty in choosing whom to admit as immigrants and extended-stay students?

I think it improbable that the Australian government is doing what they do for any reason relating to race, but they may be doing so based upon cultural issues. In any event, it would be incumbent upon an Australian citizen to complain to the duly-elected government, as they owe no duty, of any kind, to anyone else.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Simply put, if fate deems that you be born in a country which will give you an undesirable passport, you're out of luck. Things like going abroad to study or simply on vacation can be much more difficult for you than for other people. Other countries have the right to impose as many hoops as they deem fit. Is it fair? I don't really know, but nobody said the world was fair. It's troublesome enough to live in the developing world, yet one is also sometimes treated like a criminal simply because of the place where you were born.

That said, you are free to choose a country which will make things easier on you, and that is what I suggest you do.

As a Mexican, Australia makes it a bit of a hassle for me to obtain a tourist visa, they have the right and their reasons to do so, but I am also free to choose to spend my time and tourist dollars in countries where I am welcomed without such troubles (and that is what I do).

Good luck applying or choosing somewhere more suitable for you !


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2914 times:



Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 13):
Thank you. I'm not holding anything against the country, just against other Pakistanis who choose to exploit the country's hospitality and 'ruin the statistics'.



Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 4):
True, and it's not. It's the fault of the people who have abused the immigration system in Australia.

 checkmark 
My friend, it is very commendable that you can say and understand that. Despite the obstacles you may face, I wish you the very best of luck.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2114 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Racism means assuming certain qualities in a person based on their ethnic background, doesn't it?

By that definition, it does sound like Australia's handling of foreign student visas is racist. A Pakistani student, only by merit of her origin, faces barriers designed to keep her out of the country if possible. Even though she may personally be extremely motivated, the system works against her because of her origin.

Most countries have discriminating policies against certain foreign nationals. I just to imagine the ordeal my girlfriend has to go through in order to study here (she's Chinese).

I don't really see how to do it otherwise though. A certain degree of discrimination is obviously necessary for practical reasons, and yes, it's inherently racist. There's nothing we can do about it, but we need to be aware of it and not try to deny it like some members in this thread try to do.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2874 times:



Quoting Rara (Reply 22):
By that definition, it does sound like Australia's handling of foreign student visas is racist.

No it isn't! Its not based on race/ethinicity but on hard facts. Whether the OP likes it or not, he is the citizen of a country classified as 'assessment level 4', and statistics have shown that some citizens of those countries have at some stage or other, violated the student visa policies more so than citizens of assessment level 1 countries. Therefore, these rules have been put in place.

For example, for university studies, Botswana is classified as 'assessment level 1', which means the risk of a citizen of Botswana violating the visa policies is very low. If the Dept. of Immigration was racist and looking to grant entry only to caucasian people (as some people have suggested here), then why would they classify an African country as 'level 1'?

It has nothing to do with race/ethnicity/gender etc..but more so with immigration risk posed by applicants from a particular country studying in a particular education sector.



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User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2856 times:



Quoting Rara (Reply 22):
Racism means assuming certain qualities in a person based on their ethnic background, doesn't it?

By that definition, it does sound like Australia's handling of foreign student visas is racist.

Nonsense. As Springbok747 describes, it is based on proven risk factors. It is no different from the fact that some nationalities require visas to visit Schengen countries yet others don't.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
25 Cabso1 : It's sad. Unfortunately, these attempts will increase due to today's political and economical climate. A select few are the cause of distress for gen
26 Jcs17 : Let's remove Australia from this equation. Insert Iceland (for comparisons sake). An Indonesian and a Pakistani want to study in Iceland. One of those
27 KiwiRob : I'd use Norway, one of the biggest immigrant groups in Norway are Pakistanis and they are probably the least intergrated and the biggest trouble make
28 Post contains links Cabso1 : I'm part of the minority there. I believe that people don't be allowed to immigrate/travel if: a. They can't speak English / language of their adopte
29 MillwallSean : The point with most immigrants that came to Europe in the 60, 70 ies etc were that they were generally uneducated. The turks that ventured to germany
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