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Small Buisness Owner Strike Back Plans  
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

People are Angy ... small business owners are especially worried about taxes going up , insurance costs going up and the plan to tax insurance policies. The "CADILLAC TAX" as we are calling it, is in the plans ... my accounting firm requested all of our details so that they can prepare to value it and pay the correct percentages.

Our controller was having a word with the CPA firm about this and they suggested laying off employees.... We business owners and employers are going to have to make sacrifices as the President suggested. We see it a bit differently , to us sacrificing is doing more with less.

Their are those who are actually speaking of laying off employees and purposely downsizing the business ; sacrificing their life style for their principles. To be honest I had not thought of it until I was approached about the idea at our business club breakfast. See , people are pissed and they know that the leftists simply take for granted that we will make more bricks with less straw... they may be counting their chickens so to speak. It is a radical idea , but I believe that business's will do this next year ...if for nothing else than to make a stand.


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21800 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1473 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Their are those who are actually speaking of laying off employees and purposely downsizing the business ; sacrificing their life style for their principles.

Seems a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The economy's not going to get any better if people voluntarily downsize. It also devalues those who legitimately have to lay off people because of the taxes, because for all we know, their employers could just be trying to make a stand rather than actually being affected that much by the taxes.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1460 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
Seems a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Your correct , that is exactly what this is. Its about sacrificing for principles and that is always painful. Our founding fathers risked house and home to defy the British taxation without representation ...some Americans see the situation the same way now.

Some even talked about mass bankruptcy filing .... real tough situation . But it is not unlike a giant strike by union's right ?



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8917 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1449 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Our controller was having a word with the CPA firm about this and they suggested laying off employees.... We business owners and employers are going to have to make sacrifices as the President suggested. We see it a bit differently , to us sacrificing is doing more with less.

We are doing the same. We are in the middle of a merger with another company in similarly tough financial condition. Together we will have critical mass and be able to get rid of a lot of heads.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the business world right now. The only people we have hired in the past 6 months have been contract labor, so that we don't need to pay health care, or any other benefits. And all the noise from Washington seems to point to all those benefits and employment taxes going up, so I expect this trend to continue.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1432 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
so I expect this trend to continue.

A strike back would not only effect the government ..it would also effect the big bail out criminals as well. The power in this country truly lies with the hard working small business groups who employ millions. Without them , Citi bank , Sacks , AIG , become weakened.

I believe that the large multinationals are in fact betting on internationalizingng themselves so that they rely less on the US economy ; it is a sound strategy ..but it is also a betrayal of those who built the bed they sleep in. People are not happy about the bail out bunch .... we see them as nothing more than extensions of statist power at this point.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21800 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1432 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 2):
Our founding fathers risked house and home to defy the British taxation without representation ...some Americans see the situation the same way now.

Which is pretty ridiculous, since unless you live in DC, there is no taxation without representation.

If the plan really is that bad, then its flaws will be evident in due time, without help from the business community. If business owners really have a desire to cut back their lifestyle to make a political point, they can do so without putting their employees out on the street. To screw yourself is one thing - to force others to join you is a really shameful move.

And it would actually give the government the ammunition to push responsibility off onto the business community, saying that if they would just act mature and stop laying off people for political gain, then there wouldn't be as many job losses.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1428 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
To screw yourself is one thing - to force others to join you is a really shameful move.

We get no credit for employing them and are seen as piggy banks for big entitlement spending programs ....so who cares . I am not saying this is going to happen ...most likely will not , but people are talking and a movement is afoot.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1421 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Their are those who are actually speaking of laying off employees and purposely downsizing the business ; sacrificing their life style for their principles.

You can certainly do that and other companies will simply come along to take the business that you no longer want. The business environment is constantly changing, some learn to adapt to new realities and some don't. It is capitalism at it's finest.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
The only people we have hired in the past 6 months have been contract labor, so that we don't need to pay health care, or any other benefits. And all the noise from Washington seems to point to all those benefits and employment taxes going up, so I expect this trend to continue.

This trend has been going on for decades in the U.S. and has little to do with Obama or taxes.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21800 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1417 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 6):
We get no credit for employing them and are seen as piggy banks for big entitlement spending programs ....so who cares .

I'd have a hard enough time letting someone go for financial reasons - I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did so just because I was angry at the government.

Then again, maybe I just have a screwed up sense of morality.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 6):
people are talking and a movement is afoot.

That may be, but I hope they realize that if people start shooting themselves in the foot, they're not going to have many who will want to listen to them about how much it hurts.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8917 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1380 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 7):
This trend has been going on for decades in the U.S. and has little to do with Obama or taxes.

The trend towards higher employment taxes/fees has also been going on for years. Obama and the Democratic Congress simply has stomped on the gas pedal.

Surely you aren't saying that there is no correlation between employment taxes/fees and the preference for fixed employment and contract employment, are you?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1366 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
I'd have a hard enough time letting someone go for financial reasons - I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did so just because I was angry at the government.



Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Then again, maybe I just have a screwed up sense of morality.



Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
That may be, but I hope they realize that if people start shooting themselves in the foot, they're not going to have many who will want to listen to them about how much it hurts.


May I congradulate you for a sensible, moral approach to this blubbering going on about healthcare. You do not have a screwed up sense of morality, quite the contrary, you do have a sense of morality and let me be the first to give you a  bigthumbsup 



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinePhotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2809 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1353 times:

Whaaa.... whaaa...... whaaaa........ You people sound like a bunch of crybabies.

I'm sorry, but a huge number of countries in the world manage to provide FULL medical care and health coverage to their citizens without economic disaster. Why is it that American companies and society cannot seem to accept that Universal Medical Care is a hallmark of a well developed and mature civilization?

I am continually amazed that the USA, a country that has accomplished so much with technology and business cannot see fit to protect ALL their citizens from health and medical concerns. That 40 some odd million people had/have no medical insurance at all, and over 50% of all bankruptcies are caused by non-payment of medical bills says there's something desperately wrong IMHO.

I'm not bashing Americans, but just shaking my head in amazement at some of the comments I read. Voluntary bankruptcy, laying off workers, etc. From the outside looking in, I'm sure that many in the world are simply amazed at the vitreol of the debate.

For me, I just think it's sad really.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20241 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1347 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 5):

If the plan really is that bad, then its flaws will be evident in due time, without help from the business community. If business owners really have a desire to cut back their lifestyle to make a political point, they can do so without putting their employees out on the street. To screw yourself is one thing - to force others to join you is a really shameful move.

I agree.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 11):

I'm sorry, but a huge number of countries in the world manage to provide FULL medical care and health coverage to their citizens without economic disaster. Why is it that American companies and society cannot seem to accept that Universal Medical Care is a hallmark of a well developed and mature civilization?

Ideology. In fact, universal health insurance is called-for by the preamble of the Constitution and is long overdue.

However, because it seems to be Liberals who want it, the Conservatives will dig in their feet. It's the same idiocy that goes on in other countries. Spain is a beautiful example: it's plainly obvious that in Spanish schools, children should be learning most of their lessons in Castilian (what we would call "Spanish"), be getting compulsory English lessons and an increasing amount of their curriculum in English, and be taught the local dialect/language (like Catalán or Galician) as a minor part of the education. However, in Spain, the "Conservative" view is that this should be the case. However, because the fascist Francoist government was very nationalistic, the Spanish Liberals view any move towards nationalism of culture and/or language to be evil. In fact, many Spaniards will accuse someone who is waving a Spanish flag a "Fascist." (except for the when the national team is playing a soccer game; then Spanish flags abound!) It's so absurd it borders on hilarity. That's my point of view from someone who understands the issue, but views it as a neutral outsider. Hell, I'm even a liberal.

So in Spain, while most liberal policy is actually pretty sound, the liberals eschew the idea of universal education in English and the official national language (which most other European countries do) because it's too "nationalist," without regard for what is actually best to for a country with an absurdly abysmal rate of English competency, which is so important in an increasingly unified Europe where consensus is that English is the common language (why they chose such an idiotic and difficult-to-learn language is beyond me, but that's a separate issue). I'm sure almost any democratic country has similar cultural nonsenses.

The same is true in the U.S. But here it's healthcare. Universal healthcare isn't socialism. That would mean that EVERY SINGLE FIRST-WORLD COUNTRY ON EARTH EXCEPT FOR THE UNITED STATES IS A SOCIALIST COUNTRY! Japan, all of Europe Canada, South Korea, etc. Of course, such a claim is patently absurd. The U.S. is the only Capitalist country in the first world?  rotfl 

But, unfortunately, our country has become so divided that it's now a battle of one side vs. the other, rather than a battle to do what's best for us all. Doesn't matter that the non-partisan GAO has shown that this will reduce taxes and overall national deficit. What truly matters is that it's a Liberal/Democrat plan and THAT is why they fight it.

And now we've seen that they will go so far as to try to sabotage the economy. OK, fine lay off people, screw your employees. Kill your own company. Fine. There will be enough other companies who would love to pick up the slack in your business and hire the people you lay off. Have fun on your way to BK court, boys.

Meanwhile, my company is hiring.


User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3401 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1346 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
A strike back would not only effect the government ..it would also effect the big bail out criminals as well. The power in this country truly lies with the hard working small business groups who employ millions. Without them , Citi bank , Sacks , AIG , become weakened.

While what you say is 100% true these banks have and can retaliate back to small businesses by refusing to extend any credit to you for personal reasons which is what small businesses depend on. Is this rational, not by a long shot but it still could happen.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 11):

I'm sorry, but a huge number of countries in the world manage to provide FULL medical care and health coverage to their citizens without economic disaster. Why is it that American companies and society cannot seem to accept that Universal Medical Care is a hallmark of a well developed and mature civilization?

What they are getting with this current bill that just passed will not make medical care cheaper in the short term and everything AGM has said is a potential consequence of the current situation in the US which extends beyond healthcare.

What other developed countries have (such as the UK's NHS, single payer etc) if implemented in the US would lead to a tax increase but that tax increase would be less that what corporations and small businesses currently pay (in theory) thus saving money. However American politicians can't convince a gullible child of this and also that it puts the American employee at a competitive disadvantage to workers in all other developed countries.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1323 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
The only people we have hired in the past 6 months have been contract labor, so that we don't need to pay health care, or any other benefits.

 checkmark 

And unfortunately, this is exactly why my wife is having a hard time finding a permanent job. She's worked nonstop since massive layoffs at her former employer impacted her, working temp contract jobs for two different large corporations. While each has been incredibly impressed with her work, the executives she's been supporting have been unable to get the green light from HR on a permanent position due to their fear of how adding another FTE might change budgets once the healthcare bill comes out.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 7):
This trend has been going on for decades in the U.S. and has little to do with Obama or taxes.

 redflag 

While that may be the case, I know for a fact that companies of late have been doing far more work with contract labor instead of hiring for permanent positions based on the uncertainty of how a healthcare bill might impact their budgets.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
In fact, universal health insurance is called-for by the preamble of the Constitution

False.

I know the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States by heart and can't see anything in there about healthcare. And if you think "promote the general welfare" somehow equals "provide free healthcare for all," think again:

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_pre.html

promote the general Welfare

This, and the next part of the Preamble, are the culmination of everything that came before it — the whole point of having tranquility, justice, and defense was to promote the general welfare — to allow every state and every citizen of those states to benefit from what the government could provide. The framers looked forward to the expansion of land holdings, industry, and investment, and they knew that a strong national government would be the beginning of that.



http://www.lawandliberty.org/genwel.htm

Writing about the “general welfare” clause in 1791, Thomas Jefferson saw the danger of misinterpreting the Constitution. The danger in the hands of Senators and Congressmen was “that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.” Unlike public officials during Jefferson’s time, our modern-day legislators have a very loose interpretation of the Constitution. The result is that government has mushroomed into a monolithic bureaucracy.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1320 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
I believe that the large multinationals are in fact betting on internationalizingng themselves so that they rely less on the US economy ; it is a sound strategy

Agree completely.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 7):
This trend has been going on for decades in the U.S. and has little to do with Obama or taxes.

Yup, I work for a large oil company...as a contractor....as does everybody else. That is one of the reasons why their salaries are so high, they don't do the work, they are just senior management types who manage contracors who do it for them.

It's just the nature of that industry.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 11):
I am continually amazed that the USA, a country that has accomplished so much with technology and business cannot see fit to protect ALL their citizens from health and medical concerns.

Well we just believe everybody should be responsible for themselves, not be minded by a granny state fed.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
In fact, universal health insurance is called-for by the preamble of the Constitution

No it doesn't. I am not going to repeat the actual preamble since it was already done here.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1315 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
While that may be the case, I know for a fact that companies of late have been doing far more work with contract labor instead of hiring for permanent positions based on the uncertainty of how a healthcare bill might impact their budgets.

That is the case, live with it. Good old corporate greed. I guess after the healthcare bill passes and all you types move out of the country, we will just start again without you. Maybe we can build a gentler, more humane form of Capitalism this time. You know about American Ingenuity? The sky is falling, the sky is falling screamed Henny Penny, no Henny Penny the sky will not fall.  Sad



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1314 times:
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Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 16):
Good old corporate greed.

*sigh*

Once again, you fail to remember that company officers have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders - the OWNERS OF THE COMPANY - to maximize the value of the company in the long-term, and part of that has to do with keeping overhead as low as possible without compromising safety and productivity.

Can't see how that's somehow "greedy" of them to be wary of what a possible new government mandate might do to their bottom line...



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1305 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 16):
Good old corporate greed.

*sigh*

Once again, you fail to remember that company officers have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders - the OWNERS OF THE COMPANY - to maximize the value of the company in the long-term, and part of that has to do with keeping overhead as low as possible without compromising safety and productivity.

Can't see how that's somehow "greedy" of them to be wary of what a possible new government mandate might do to their bottom line...

Sigh, groan, sigh, groan. The shareholders, groan. Fiduciary responsability, groan. My goodness man! what are you reading, drinking? We have a new generation of Robber Barons, enriching themselves at the expense of the country. GROAN!!!!



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1302 times:



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 11):
I'm sorry, but a huge number of countries in the world manage to provide FULL medical care and health coverage to their citizens without economic disaster. Why is it that American companies and society cannot seem to accept that Universal Medical Care is a hallmark of a well developed and mature civilization?

Well I don't claim to know the answer and of course the insurance companies make a nice profit..But there are a lot of doctors who are getting out of the profession and a lot not gettting into it. Add to that you are now going to add a bunch into the system who never went to doctors before adding to an even longer wait for a visit. Listen people are not crossing the border into Cuba but they are here so my question is who is going to pay for all this? I am the first to admit we need to change our health care system..I have been laid off and beein without and spent years paying off medical bills. But ramming a health care bill down the throats of americans is going to backfire on the democrats big time.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1299 times:



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 19):
But ramming a health care bill down the throats of americans is going to backfire on the democrats big time.

But if it works, it will put them back in office for a long time. Time will tell how dumb or smart they are.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineCws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1296 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
Sacks

As in bags? The department store?



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1236 times:



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 11):
I'm sorry, but a huge number of countries in the world manage to provide FULL medical care and health coverage to their citizens without economic disaster.

We are not like a huge number of countries in the world ...we are different ...no better ,different. Our freemarket approach has grown the largets economy known in mans history ... now we are changing. I have some questions about that ...thats all.

This is not only about medical care too us and it is not about medical care to the administration and the politicans either...its about a balance of power . Once the governemnt takes so much of the economy into their hands it removes power from the hands of the people.

But I am sure they will do a good job of manageing everything for us ... so why worry about employing people ?..... The employees can just go work for the governemnt ..right ? I mean lets just make it real fair and all work for the governemnet .



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
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