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Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?  
User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3098 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12164 times:

Is there anything that all the terror attacks of the world have in common?


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
136 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12158 times:

You mean besides the death? Well, they all involve blowing stuff up, that's the basic common denominator. The other thing is, most if not all, received training from terrorist groups in the middle east. Everything points back to that region.


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13151 posts, RR: 78
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12138 times:

Not much beyond specifics.

Not even commonality between elements of Islamic groups.
Some are about a drive for perceived self determination, in Kashmir, the Philippines, possibly parts of Thailand, within the chaos of Somalia, Palestine, even it seems some Chinese provinces.
Others are more about expunging what they see as the dangerous (for what they see as proper 'Islam') influence of the West.
Which is, or at first was, the Primary goal of what loose groups were in the orbit of Bin Laden.

Since these elements often had, for them, common enemies, small wonder that there has been cooperation between them.
Iraq, after the invasion without a post war plan, bother types were certainly active.
Though the original motivation would have been fighting the invader.

But there is another element to Islamic terror, often, despite the appalling body count, almost ignored in the West.
That is different arms of Islam fighting each other, this was going on in Pakistan well before Sept 11th 2001.
We saw that in Iraq, it's still going on there.

For sure there is no central James Bond movie evil genius at the heart of it, there never was even at the height of Bin Laden's influence.
Now it looks more fragmented than ever before.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6056 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12114 times:
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I know there are a lot of apologists for radical Islam on a.net so they will probably tell us that common demoninator has nothing to do with Islam. They like to throw in the OKC bombing or the IRA. I say to you... Stop living in the past. We are talking about terror today, not fifteen years ago. Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

Quoting GDB (Reply 2):
But there is another element to Islamic terror, often, despite the appalling body count, almost ignored in the West.
That is different arms of Islam fighting each other, this was going on in Pakistan well before Sept 11th 2001.
We saw that in Iraq, it's still going on there.

Yes, and it has nothing to do with the USA and/or Israel. Too many people think the Islamic radical problem would just go away if the USA and Israel would just go away. It will not and we are foolish to think it will.


It amazes me that crap like this is allowed to go on in the UK. I don't care that this looks like a small crowd. People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA. A few years ago a dozen or so KKK people protested in Toledo, Ohio. They got there ass kicked and a riot ensued. When hate groups get together in the USA they are not welcomed by many and we show them they are not wanted. These mem are a hate group and need to be treated as such. What would have happened if they were white men holding signs against gays, Jews, blacks, etc?



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6751 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12104 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

And even mainstream is divided... *sigh*

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
It amazes me that crap like this is allowed to go on in the UK. I don't care that this looks like a small crowd.

That's one thing that made me decide to call it quits in the UK... the radical Islamic students kept terrorizing me every Friday asking me to join them for Friday prayers and that for me to go to have Friday prayers at my embassy was "improper", and bordering on heresy... I was like WTF??? At one stage I had about 6 Jewish american students "guarding" me on the uni lectures on Fridays... LOL... those radical islamic students didn't like it one bit! But I wonder, they never gave up like a drug addict with a sack of cocaine dangled in front of them!

Mind you, when I got to Australia later, I got sickened by the political correctness...  Smile

Gotta love those silly words "Freedom can go to hell", but if they get arrested, they'd say their freedom of expression was violated! Bwahahahaha! Hypocrites!

For the ones that still uses their heads and common sense to think, the Quran warns us of "those who claim to believe but are truly unbelievers", and "those who say they come in peace but say so only to cause mischief"... Nice to know that Islam had warned us of radicalists and "radicalists immigrating to countries in peace only to cause these sorts of mischief afterwards."

Sure, one day, Islam might dominate the world... I just pray to God it's not THEIR version of it! If so, I might become a suicide bomber against these stoopid radicals! Anyone wanna join giving them a taste of their own stoopid medicine?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
What would have happened if they were white men holding signs against gays, Jews, blacks, etc?

Knowing the UK... errrr... nothing...  Smile

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA.

LOL, last time a hate-preacher preached in the mosque in my neighbourhood, we stood up and walked out in protest... If these guys end up doing this in my neighbourhood, they'd probably last 10 minutes before someone runs them over with a car screaming "idiots!"  Smile

I hate these "hypocrites hell bent on perverting my religion" with a passion!



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26794 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12090 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA

You mean like this ?

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12084 times:

The Common Denominator:

We have fallen back on the yardstick of national self-interest to measure which portions of the planet we allow ourselves to be concerned about. In the twenty-first century, we cannot afford to tolerate a single failed state, ruled be ruthless and self-serving dictators, arming and brainwashing a generation of potential warriors to export meyhem and terror around the world. Rwanda was a warning to us all of what lies in store if we continue to ignore human rights, human security and abject poverty. The tens of millions of three-year-olds like the one I met on that Rwandan road deserve and must have nothing less than a chance at life as a human being and not as someone's slave, vassal, chattel, or expendable pawn.

L.Gen Roméo Dallaire



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6056 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12082 times:
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Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
the radical Islamic students kept terrorizing me every Friday asking me to join them for Friday prayers and that for me to go to have Friday prayers at my embassy was "improper", and bordering on heresy... I was like WTF???

Fascinating.... I have read about that in various books and magazines. Some of the naive people on a.net said that no such thing happens. Of course none of those people probably hang out in neighborhoods where that happens.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
I hate these "hypocrites hell bent on perverting my religion" with a passion!

Good for you. Islam has been around a long time and it wasn't until fairly recently that it started to become hijacked by extremists. I wonder how much of this violence is really Islam related and how much of it is middle east tribal warfare hiding behind Islam?

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
I just pray to God it's not THEIR version of it!

me too... Those nutty guys probably don't have any love in their hearts for my Christian beliefs.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6056 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12080 times:
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Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
You mean like this ?

yep, and they don't get any repect. I am not saying we have no hate groups, we have plenty, but they have few real supporters. You should see those wimps run when a gang of Legion Riders comes around. When hate groups show their face they get their asses kicked. We don't just say.... Oh lets respect their diversity because and value their opinions.

The Legion Riders (American Legion) try to be at funerals of service men to keep nuts like them away. You also have to know about those protestors. They claim to be Baptists, but are not affiliated with any large denomination of the US Baptist church. Also most of those Westboro Baptist people are related and actualy try to stir up trouble, they travel around. There numbers are very small.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12069 times:

Stop Terror sponsoring countries & get them to toe the line of the world & Terror will end.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6751 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12053 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
Fascinating.... I have read about that in various books and magazines. Some of the naive people on a.net said that no such thing happens. Of course none of those people probably hang out in neighborhoods where that happens.

It was in DOWNTOWN LONDON!!!!! In Campuses of the various parts of the University of London... (Try that part between Euston, Tottenham Court Road, and King's Cross).

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
You mean like this ?

OK, I know Americans are crackpots... but come on, this takes the cake! LOL! Just kidding guys!
Seriously, what on earth????
"Thank God for..."... IEDs? 9/11? Dead Soldiers?
"Too late to pray" ???
Am no avid supporter nor am I an avid opposer of the current US engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan... but... Geez, I thought those radicals were crazy, but... *shakes head* those guys take the cake dude!
No respect for the dead... and dead soldiers too... dead soldiers, who have to go in there whether they believed in the war or not because it was their job... and did so for their country, regardless on whether the war was right or wrong.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
me too... Those nutty guys probably don't have any love in their hearts for my Christian beliefs.

Send those guys to Iraq and Afghanistan unarmed on a mission to reason with their country's so called enemy... I'd love to see how long they'd last... any bets?  Smile
Bloody hell! Even we all have to respect a dead enemy soldier with a proper burial!

I don't think Osama needs to bomb anything in America anymore... these people have just handed him the victory baton... (oh, and add TSA to the list too for changing the American way of air travel)...

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 8):
We don't just say.... Oh lets respect their diversity because and value their opinions.

Well, I say we have to respect diversity and value different opinions... shutting out and marginalising those we think are lunatics won't help... look at Bin Ladin, he qualifies as a lunatic... BUT, it doesn't mean we value differing opinions and stop there and let them run loose and amok... Work to bring reason with them... and when they refuse to... you always retain the option of blowing them all to hell (as long as you do it before they do... something which we all failed to do).

Anyways, those lunatic "insult the dead soldiers" *censored words*, deserve to have common sense and decency kicked into their heads... if they want us to start respecting their opinions, they should stop violating a common denominator of human society... that is... to respect the dead!

Am sure these guys qualify for Christian Hell and Muslim Hell...  Smile Hey guys! we got a common place to throw them to in the afterlife!  Smile (if you want to give them earthly hell, then let's start sending them to Afghanistan! Hehehehe!)

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
I wonder how much of this violence is really Islam related and how much of it is middle east tribal warfare hiding behind Islam?

I suggest you have a read about our recently deceased former president... who is a muslim cleric, leader of Indonesia's largest Islamic organization, and a pluralist... his view on religion: "All religions insist on peace. From this we might think that the religious struggle for peace is simple ... but it is not. The deep problem is that people use religion wrongly in pursuit of victory and triumph. This sad fact then leads to conflict with people who have different beliefs."

Now, that is sadly... true...
Have a read on the guy.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdurrahman_Wahid

And to those not recognizing Israel...
"Israel believes in God. While we have a diplomatic relationship and recognising diplomatically China and Russia, which are atheist states, then it's strange that we don't acknowledge Israel. This is the thing that we have to correct within Islam."

I would love to have seen a TV debate between Abdurrahman Wahid and Osama Bin Ladin...  Smile I guess the next opportunity is in the afterlife  Sad



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13005 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12001 times:

Perhaps a key factor in modern terrorism is discrimination as to economic opportunity due to a combo of ethnicty, tribe, family connection, religion or faith beliefs or financial class. In some cases it is compounded by occupation of another country that may favor certain groups over another, sometimes a minority of the region over a majority group, exploitation of resources or cheap labor.
For many men in the Islamic world, even if they get an education, they may be limited in employment opportunities due to discrimination as noted above. Many men cannot get decent work so are unemployed or living with their parents or in poverty. That means for young men, many cannot consider marriage as don't have the economic and emotional security needed to attract a potential mate. Then their is the bonding of people into certain groups, including al-Queda and other Islamic extreamist groups who then tell potential followers that they are not to blame but rather the USA, Israel, 'the Western world', Christianity and so on are.


User currently offlineFlanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1627 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11980 times:

Common denominator: Radical Islam


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21423 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11962 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
I know there are a lot of apologists for radical Islam on a.net

Are there? There are a lot of people who defend Islam, but I've yet to see someone defend radical Islam.

And yes, radical Islam is the common denominator among terrorists lately. That fact is undeniable.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11946 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
There are a lot of people who defend Islam, but I've yet to see someone defend radical Islam.

Me neither. I've seen plenty of posts though bordering on "1 billion of the world's people are predisposed to violence and radicalism or are at least partially sympathetic to it - so let's keep them the hell out." Utter garbage.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13151 posts, RR: 78
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11917 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
They like to throw in the OKC bombing or the IRA. I say to you... Stop living in the past. We are talking about terror today, not fifteen years ago. Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

But you cannot get away from the fact that the 2nd worst terror attack the US has had, which was a very mass casualty deadly and major one by any yardstick anywhere in the world, was carried out by one of your own.
And there are still like minded people, to McVeigh, around still now.

From our viewpoint, many of us find some of the near hysteria from some in the US galling, especially when it comes from the mouth of your lawmaker, one Pete King from NY.
A notorious mouthpiece and apologist for the IRA in his day.

A group who did nearly succeed, in 1984 and 1991, in killing members of the government, including respectively, Prime Ministers Thatcher and Major, who did, despite whatever PR they employed stateside, to get those money tins filled and weapons brought, carry out many no warning, indiscriminate bombings both in N.I. and the mainland on civilian targets, like pubs and shopping centers.
2009 will be remembered in the UK, for being the worst casualty wise, year in Afghanistan so far.
But these levels were comparable with the worst years of the 'Troubles' in the early 70's.

So we feel the same about the Pete Kings of this world, as you do about those clowns (and there only a very few of them), in that pic taken in the UK.
(Some of whom were later arrested and charged under legislation concerning hate crimes).

Recent surveys have suggested that in fact, British Muslims are the most patriotic for the country they were born and brought up, of any of the Muslim communities in Europe.
This does not of course exclude the existence of the idiots in that demo, who are it seems are as estranged from their own community, as they are from the life of the country as a whole.
Recently, US born Muslims have been picked up abroad seemingly plotting terror attacks, then of course there were the killings at that Army base.

Returning to the IRA, the UK has long had a very large Irish/Irish descended community, in many parts of the country, particularly in London, Manchester, Liverpool.
In fact, the largest immigrant/immigrant descended community for a very long time right up to this day.
But, even at the height of the IRA campaign, the terrorists found little succor, less help, from this community.
They were, like the Islamics today, largely estranged too.

We'll not take any lectures about terrorism from the likes of Pete King and the others, including the courts who prevented ANY convicted IRA terrorist on the run, ever being extradited.
Others tried hard to prevent the British Security forces from purchasing Ruger rifles and Pistols, they did succeed in delaying them.
'Shoulder To Shoulder'?
Not then it wasn't, when terrorism was just what happened to others.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26794 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11914 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 15):
From our viewpoint, many of us find some of the near hysteria from some in the US galling, especially when it comes from the mouth of your lawmaker, one Pete King from NY.
A notorious mouthpiece and apologist for the IRA in his day.

Quite true . Countless US administrations turned a blind eye to terrorism and funding for it in the USA until suddenly it came knocking on their own door step then it was suddenly ''faux pas''.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11884 times:

Couldn't agree more that there are many parallels between the Northern Ireland Troubles and present-day Islamic-based terrorism.

The root cause of the Northern Irish problem was religious discrimination. For half a century, the Northern Irish Protestants systematically discriminated against the Catholics.

I think it's highly relevant that that problem was solved, in the end, not by soldiers or police but by 'negotiation'. The problem ended (or rather, became much reduced, it's still there to an extent) once the British government finally insisted on negotiations on 'power-sharing' and other methods of defusing the situation.

However, it's important to bear in mind that the Irish would never have solved that problem for themselves; the bitterness ran too deep on both sides. The British government, since it largely funded and supported the economies of both the Irelands, was always in a position to 'impose' a solution on both sides. It's just a pity, with hindsight, that it took so long to 'come the heavy father' and stop the nonsense once and for all.

As others have said, the United States had a poor record of being 'soft' on the IRA right through that conflict. One has to conclude that that was because of the virtual 100% support that the 'Irish' community in the USA gave to PIRA ('Provisional Irish Republican Army') - any American politician, particularly any Democrat, who spoke out too loudly against 'Irish Independence' would have been hard put to it to get elected dog-catcher in places like New York City.........

But now I have to put the cat among the pigeons:-

1. It's perfectly clear that the mainspring of the current wave of terrorism is blatant religious discrimination in the Middle East.

2. It's also clear that the United States is the only country in the world that is able to 'come the heavy father' and tell both Israel and its neighbours to negotiate a just peace.

3. Regrettably, one can also see that any US politicians who back any such 'tough line' - which, inevitably, will mean Israel making most of the concessions - would be wise to prepare for the possibility that they'll have to seek alternative careers. Especially New York politicians like Hillary Clinton.........

I suppose I'm just getting old. But I hope people will forgive me for feeling, on occasion, that reading the political news in the newspapers every morning feels more and more like 'watching old movies'.........'Been there, seen that'..........

[Edited 2010-01-01 05:42:15]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11854 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 1):
Well, they all involve blowing stuff up, that's the basic common denominator. The other thing is, most if not all, received training from terrorist groups in the middle east. Everything points back to that region.

- Depends on the decade. At present it mostly is Middle East, Asia and Latin America. In the 1970ies/80ies, much was in Germany and Italy. It was and is however also in North-East Spain / South-West France. And in the 1990ies it was the Islamic Academy on Hyde Park in London and other such places. And it for decades was in Northern Ireland
- Blowing stuff up is "fashionable", but in the past it was the DE-routing of airplanes to alternative destinations, assassinations of prominent people out of politics + economy + cultures, or blackmailing individuals or institutions into payments by murder-threats

Quoting GDB (Reply 2):
element to Islamic terror

-
You now speak about a sector which "thanks" to elQaeda has become prominent in the past 15 years, but you forget Latin American terror groups, IRA, ETA, BaaderMeinhof, RedBrigades in Italy, TamilTigers. Many of them still ARE active and deadly.

And here we come to a top important point about terrorism. Terrorists ALWAYS are attention whores


Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
apologists for radical Islam

the existence of various sorts of terrorists is no apology for radicalism and extremism of any sort & anti-terrorism measures simply have to take all aspects into account. And that includes violent semi-political crime like the one in Oklahoma City. But simply let's regard terrorism as what it is and that is VIOLENT CRIME.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

And even mainstream is divided... *sigh*

The mainstream of society has to be divided, as it HAS TO BE pluralistic. This may be the weakness of pluralism and democracy, but in the end is its strength.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
Gotta love those silly words "Freedom can go to hell", but if they get arrested, they'd say their freedom of expression was violated! Bwahahahaha! Hypocrites!

All criminals and all folks in favour of totalitarianism are like that. No freedom required except of course for THEM !

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
radical Islamic students kept terrorizing me every Friday asking me to join them for Friday prayers

like in case of the "Islamic Academy" in London where a student out of the window invited bypassers to come in for their "interesting discussions"

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
I wonder how much of this violence is really Islam related and how much of it is middle east tribal warfare hiding behind Islam?

Nothing of it is really "Islam related" and most of "Islamic extremism" is politics hiding behind Islam, and that applies to Black Africa, the Arab World, Asia (Afghanistan) . To declare yourself to be "defender of religion" always has been fashionable in this world.



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 10):
It was in DOWNTOWN LONDON!!!!! In Campuses of the various parts of the University of London... (Try that part between Euston, Tottenham Court Road, and King's Cross).

Amazing in the London of the 1990ies was how those bookshops on Charing Cross Road who in the 70ies were extremely leftist suddenly had radical Islamic literature in English and Arabic even in the shop-windows.

Quoting GDB (Reply 15):
even at the height of the IRA campaign, the terrorists found little succor, less help, from this community.
They were, like the Islamics today, largely estranged too.

Exactly this makes extremists terrorists. When extremists start to realize that the majority is not with them they try to push their agenda through by terrorist violence

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17):
the United States had a poor record of being 'soft' on the IRA right through that conflict

Worse was that the USA and much of Europe in the 1980ies and even 90ies gave political asylum to fleeing terrorists from Algeria and Egypt, and turned down Algerian and Egyptian extradition requests quite routinely, among them people involved in the assassination of President Mohammed Anwar as-Sadat. Bad is to see that an extremely fundamentalist grandson of Sheikh Ahmed Hassan al-Banna (founder of the Islamic Brotherhood) is not only enjoying "political asylum" in Switzerland but even allowed to give lengthy interviews to Swiss TV and so distributing his propaganda.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19278 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11818 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):

It amazes me that crap like this is allowed to go on in the UK. I don't care that this looks like a small crowd. People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA.

http://www.isisimagery.com/2006/October_2006/October_event1/IMGP3047A.JPG


That First Amendment is a pesky thing sometimes. But I'd rather keep it than shred it.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6751 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11779 times:



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
And in the 1990ies it was the Islamic Academy on Hyde Park in London and other such places. And it for decades was in Northern Ireland

And the 90s saw both the rise of the Islamic hardheads that were rejected in their own homeland prior to immigrating to the UK, and also, the last peak in IRA activity.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
And here we come to a top important point about terrorism. Terrorists ALWAYS are attention whores

Bwahahahaha! That is SOOOOO true !
They deserve to be sniped by Delta Cat...


Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
The mainstream of society has to be divided, as it HAS TO BE pluralistic. This may be the weakness of pluralism and democracy, but in the end is its strength.

Hear yee Hear yee! Common Sense hath descended upon A.net Non-Av... (cue the entry of the anti pluralists... oh wait hang on... they're on holiday!)

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
All criminals and all folks in favour of totalitarianism are like that. No freedom required except of course for THEM !

I'll let my other cat deal Usman bin Layme deal with them...


Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
To declare yourself to be "defender of religion" always has been fashionable in this world.

Oh yes, and unfortunately this will continue till the end of the world... (which is only in 2 years according to Hollywood).

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
Amazing in the London of the 1990ies was how those bookshops on Charing Cross Road who in the 70ies were extremely leftist suddenly had radical Islamic literature in English and Arabic even in the shop-windows.

the 70s saw hippies, lefties and flowerpowers... the 90s saw... oh, equally crazy but wayyyy less colourful...
Coincidentally, my gauntlet with these crazies did occur in the mid 90s! From Charing Cross to Euston... (must be something wrong with the Northern Line and Picadilly Line...)

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):


That First Amendment is a pesky thing sometimes. But I'd rather keep it than shred it.

[/quote]
Let Usman deal with the KKK and the other wannabe totalitarian scums...
Meanwhile, for the insulters of dead soldiers, perhaps I should remind them to reconsider that sick placard "Thank God for IEDs"... by sending them my other cat... Noordin M Kitty, the IEC (Improvised Explosive Cat) specialist...

Welcome to pluralistic democracy... where we give totalitarian wannabes a shelter... Just remember, keep them at bay and away from weapons while make sure the majority have common sense!  Smile



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11763 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA.

Have you seen evangelical Christians in the USA? It's the exact same thing. Don't think they are nonviolent, either. They occasionally rise to be Commander in Chief.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
What would have happened if they were white men holding signs against gays, Jews, blacks, etc?

There were a bunch of white men and women advocating a "kill 'em all" platform after 9/11. They called themselves the Republican Party. For an update, consider Dick Cheney's eloquent statements.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15692 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11751 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
Have you seen evangelical Christians in the USA? It's the exact same thing. Don't think they are nonviolent, either. They occasionally rise to be Commander in Chief.

Every time I see some of the things they say, I think that it is just lucky that they aren't Muslims. That Bio channel documentary Jesus Camp was pretty scary.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3599 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11717 times:



Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
Is there anything that all the terror attacks of the world have in common?

Muslims, pretty much.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11702 times:



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 23):
Muslims, pretty much.

The question has not been about "pretty much" but about "ALL". And so, your statement is wrong. As it only covers Muslim terrorists, but neither Tamil Tigers, nor ETA or the Latin American terrorists. So, what are real commonalities ?
> political extremism
> fanatism
> the attempt to push through an agenda by violence
> the attempt to get attention at any price (attention whores)
> the desire to press their views onto the rest of humanity


25 Post contains links Baroque : GDB, you know perfetly well that was a secret. What are you doing blabbing about it here. Expect men in white jackets to take you away for a spot of
26 Post contains links MadameConcorde : Eyes on Yemen 02/01/2010 11:30:00 AM GMT http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/39/Eyes-on-Yemen.html What creates more al-Qaeda sympathizers than killing
27 Post contains links NAV20 : Actually, it's the Muslim countries that are really copping the terrorism. We get all worried about some idiot who tries to loose off a bomb on an air
28 Falstaff : Have you ever seen the reaction of the local community when hate groups come around? I have and it isn't pretty... for them. I have been going to chu
29 Post contains links JBirdAV8r : Also I find it funny that most of the examples of pseudo-Christian extremism posted by the more cynical members are of one tiny, insignificant "churc
30 StarAC17 : Remember Timothy McVeigh and the guy who shot George Tiller, both of those acts are considered terrorism in my books and they were Christians (althou
31 Post contains links Golfradio : It is all about radical Islam. As Falstaff said in reply 7, since the last three decades Islam as it were has been replaced by Wahhabism. The majorit
32 BMI727 : Nor have I, but it is out there.
33 Post contains links Mandala499 : The rise of Wahhabism is a concern for the world. It is a sect that rejects innovations (science, medicine, technology)... their hardline approach, u
34 Baroque : I just hope that the Amien Rais line of thought does not prosper at the expense of Gus Dur type NU. Yes, and one of the least appreciated development
35 HKA : They don't turn a blind eye, rather they nature it and support it but when it comes back to bite them, it becomes terrorism. Good point. Ask the Iraq
36 Mandala499 : Well, they went head to head throughout the decade... The Amien Rais line is becoming less and less popular, even within his own party! The new "PAN"
37 NAV20 : Excellent point, Golfradio. I can honestly claim that, mere hours after 9/11, and ever since, I have consistently reckoned (and said) that the only p
38 Baroque : Mmmm, Nav. WADR, I think you do not know enough Muslims. There is this place called Mecca. And whatever you think, they think rather differently. Now
39 NAV20 : Wasn't suggesting nukes, Baroque. I get so sick of their deceit and posturing that I'd be happy to take that God-awful (or perhaps 'Allah-awful'? ) p
40 Baroque : Never thought of nukes let alone mentioned them. Wiki: Utaybi received little mass support outside of small circles of manual workers and students of
41 NAV20 : Quite sure that you know as well as I do that the whole Saudi 'Royal Family' are just a bunch of gangsters who 'got lucky,' Baroque. Calling that cre
42 ThegreatRDU : Say what you want Tiller's murder wasn't terrorism....
43 Post contains links Baroque : Right on cue http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...battle-of-ideas-20100103-ln82.html To beat the terrorists we need a battle of ideas ED HUSAIN Janu
44 Comorin : Nice job of stirring the pot, Rabbi - As an OP you haven't responded to any of the posts and everyone has been suckered into replying with the obviou
45 Golfradio : I sincerely hope for the future of this world that the majority in Indonesia continue to battle the diktats of the "rules of Mecca and Medina". Indon
46 ME AVN FAN : You and others now have turned the topic a bit onto Yemen. And so we have to look at THIS side. The binLaden family is from the Asir/NorthYemen borde
47 OA260 : True , if someone dropped a bomb on my family and wiped them out Id probably take revenge myself. So its totally understandable when a child grows up
48 Golfradio : I would really like to know if you seriously believe that the Twin Towers, London, Madrid or Mumbai attacks were perpetrated by men whose childhoods
49 OA260 : No but there are other instances in Gaza and Lebanon where they most certainly are !
50 Post contains links NAV20 : Not by any means 'everyone,' Comorin. To restore the balance a bit, here's an account of what amounted to the first ever act of large-scale 'modern t
51 Mandala499 : Well guess what? Late last year, airlines here received a warning from the intelligence services and the military of 4 pilots in our local airlines s
52 HKA : Maybe someone should also ask the relatives of the 600+ civilians killed in drone attacks in Afghan-Pak border as to what is terrorism and who are the
53 Golfradio : Pray tell me who were the masterminds of all the major terrorist attacks? We are talking about terrorism here and not the motivations of the Talibani
54 Falstaff : I would agree. An individual murder isn't terror. Terror is an action that kills or plans to kill indiscriminately. Also it has to terrorize the popu
55 HKA : why the civilzed cities comprise of only in USA, U.K. etc . Why are other civilized countries like South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Sweden, Finland, Ge
56 Slider : That defines Islam. Not radical Islam, but Islam, based on the very tenets and words of their prophet.
57 Santosdumont : So then what is the United States doing arming and bankrolling Saudi Arabia?
58 Dreadnought : Then someone please explain to me why Germans did not launch a massive terror campaign against the US, UK and USSR in the 60s and 70s, as the childre
59 Santosdumont : In an interesting twist, the defunct USSR propaganda machine -- whether through Radio Moscow or official political cartoons in the state-run press --
60 Slider : Yeah, I know...I've been screaming about that for a long time. Sadly, that realpolitik of oil goes back to the 50s with Aramco. One more reason we ne
61 ME AVN FAN : No, not really. BUT Osama Bin Laden would fully agree with you, as this is his view of Islam. Islam is neither A nor B nor D. And C and E it shares w
62 Slider : Ah yes, more distortion and lies to equate Christianity with Islam. Newsflash- no matter how many times you want to spin this line and lie, it won’
63 ME AVN FAN : also Christianity wants to have all people on earth to become Christians. This is in the Bible. Islam in the Koran demands tolerance for the people o
64 ME AVN FAN : Christianity has converted more people by force than Islam ever did. The history books are full of that. Just look at Latin America
65 Comorin : Sorry, should've excluded you and the formidable Baroque I will step back now and read; there are some good posts in here. I wish I could get into th
66 Slider : Yes, and no Christian would deny that. Missionaries exist to share the Gospel and it is a mandate from Jesus. But that’s all he said. He didn’t s
67 OA260 : Totally different situation. Germany was the aggressor not the victim.Dont forget it was Germany who launched the terror campaign in the first place.
68 Dreadnought : And when did Americans start hijacking Arab airliners? The US only started supporting Israel after repeated Arab attempts at invading and exterminati
69 OA260 : The Americans have been seen as supporting Israel at the expense of the Arabs. So I guess your fair game . Kind of answered your own question.
70 Comorin : I think Jesus was The Greatest Man Ever and did more good for the world than anyone else. But some of his followers were a bloodthirsty lot, like big
71 Dreadnought : No question, Christianity had it's dark times. But that was a very long time ago. Try living in the present. Christ entreated us to give charitably t
72 StarAC17 : They did once and if films like Jesus Camp are any indication of a bigger issue with extremism in Christianity and groups like the WBC grow in full f
73 Mandala499 : I am a Muslim, and - I do not subscribe to political extremism - I think fanatism is stupid - I do not agree to pushing an agenda by violence - I do
74 Baroque : Well you might need it, and indeed you could get it - if you were willing to pay for it. Also might help if some of you stopped abusing all thoughts
75 ME AVN FAN : Israel was established as late as in 1948 in Palestine. Arab troops in 1948 tried to re-conquer. In 1956, Brits, French and Israeli forces wanted to
76 ME AVN FAN : I can quote quite many references from the Koran clearly and definitely confirming my statement
77 ME AVN FAN : Groups like elQaeda speak about defence but want to press their will onto FIRST OF ALL the Muslims in this world. I doubt whether elQaeda would welco
78 Santosdumont : Let's take one easy example, for starters. Explain the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland, then.
79 CasInterest : Terrorism has one common denominator. To inflict Terror on people / beliefs that stand against you. It doesn't matter who perpetrates it. There are no
80 Post contains links Baroque : And hundreds of years of non-Islam related terrorism before that as well. From: http://terrorism.about.com/od/whatisterroris1/p/Terrorism.htm Sicarii
81 Cws818 : Christianity and Islam are both religions with billions of adherents. Individuals carry out violence, not religions. There are violent Christians and
82 Post contains links NAV20 : Quite right, in my view. Except that it's not just a matter of just two religions - Christianity and Mohammedanism - in my view. The 'Nobel prize' fo
83 CaliAtenza : wow..thats a pretty loaded statement....
84 Falstaff : I once read that it really started to gain steam in the last 100 years. For its first 100 years Wahhabism was small and was rather unnoticed. I don't
85 Baroque : As you perhaps suggest today is not all that representative of the past, and will in all likelihood not be representative of the future either. Who k
86 NAV20 : Don't see why, CaliAtenza mate. It appears to be 'open season' on Moslems and Christians. Do those of the Jewish faith enjoy some sort of 'exemption'
87 CasInterest : Still a loaded statement. If your neighbor was launching grenades and rockets into your backyard, would you not defend yourself?
88 NAV20 : Were that poor kid with all the phosphorus wounds in his back, and all his dead relatives, 'launching grenades and rockets' at anyone, CasInterest? Th
89 CasInterest : Way to try to slam 60 +years of a conflict into one small scene. Did the Army also teach you to only look down the barrel of your gunsight , and igno
90 NAV20 : Didn't think that you would have, chum........
91 CasInterest : I can't argue with someone that can't wrap their mind around the broader picture. If the UN wants to charge Israel with war crimes, then they can, as
92 ME AVN FAN : Wahhabism started when Muslim reformator Abdel Wahhab supported Mohammed al-Sa'ud to establish a kind of emirate in Riyadh. It came to a standstill,
93 Slider : More moral relativism. As I expounded on quite a bit in the Swiss minaret ban thread, acknowledging that violence has been done in the name of the Go
94 Mandala499 : Not recalling any references, but the quoted paragraph does make sense anyways. The Wahhab we're talking about is Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab who died i
95 GDB : Assuming he ever did exist, was Robin Hood a terrorist? What about the American Revolutionaries? Guess what the Nazis often called resistance fighters
96 Baroque : But you leapfrog into traducing history. A 1300 year history would leave Islam competing with many other violent movements, how about the Vikings, th
97 Slider : All os Islam is replete with bloody conquest...the Crusades themselves were originally to stave off and defend against Islam, for crying out loud. Be
98 Post contains links Baroque : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra Completed towards the end of Muslim rule in Spain by Yusuf I (1333–1353) and Muhammed V, Sultan of Granada (1
99 Slider : One example? You've got ONE example? BWAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
100 Cws818 : So you, as a Christian, are indistinguishable from Ted Haggard? Throughout history some believers have shown themselves to be poor listeners.
101 Slider : I don’t know who that is. Non sequitur and frankly, I have no idea what you’re implying here. But if my position wasn’t crystal clear, which it
102 Cws818 : Okay, then, how about Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker?
103 ME AVN FAN : - the crusades were NOT in defence but clearly in attack - the Tamil Tigers remained, Sicily with the Mafia (originally a liberation movement against
104 Post contains images Mandala499 : If you're a Wahhabist, yes... their belief is absolutist and not open to debate. If one day they close the doors of Mecca and Medina to non-Wahhabist
105 Baroque : I worked for a while with a guy from SEKKAB (might have the acronym wrong) and he said that they were thinking (1990) of restricting work overseas, e
106 Post contains links and images ME AVN FAN : There apparently are some basic misunderstandings : - Most Arab countries are secularist and have civil law - Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq
107 JRDC930 : Yes; they all believe that the violence is an acceptable way to get people to listen to their unreasonable demands; that by killing people it will fo
108 Post contains links Slider : FAIL. Try again. Or explain better where you claim is correct. http://history-world.org/crusades.htm So are the words of the prophet infallible? Or n
109 Post contains links and images Mandala499 : Ooops... sorry... where I am, when we say Arab, it normally means Saudi, Yemen, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar and Oman... When it's Egypt, Lebanon, Syr
110 NAV20 : As far as I'm concerned, problems have always arisen, over the centuries, as soon as the various religious leaders stop talking about faith, beliefs,
111 CaliAtenza : i will agree with you on this. The problem with Islam, as the way i see it, is that the good people, the vast majority of followers, the people like
112 MD11Engineer : My Sierra Leonian (West African) ex, who was from a moderate Muslim family, told me that as children in school religion class they had to learn to qu
113 ME AVN FAN : the mainstay of the Arab World consists of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq, which make up some 80% of the total pop
114 CaliAtenza : I still have not seen many Muslims come out publically, other than some prominent politicians such as Indonesia's former ruler and some scribes and a
115 Lewis : True, the Crusades were never meant to liberate Constantinople, what they did was weaken the Empire and make it easier for the Turks to occupy it. So
116 Post contains links Baroque : Which means you would need to give them until AD 2149 before you complain too much. The Christian church took a while to reform itself and that was a
117 ME AVN FAN : Many Muslims have come out publicly, in mass demonstrations in major cities like Casablanca and Cairo and Amman and Beirut, against terrorism and ext
118 Mandala499 : We just call Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt as North Africa... hence its people north africans... strange eh? The reason is that Arabs wh
119 NAV20 : Excellent point, Baroque. Being a bit of an 'odd-ball' - as most of us on here are - I've always somehow felt both amused and comforted by the fact t
120 Mandala499 : LOL! Don't be that hard on your self mate! My ancestors were still Hindus, and whilst we wore clothes (some can be elaborate) from the waist down, th
121 ME AVN FAN : - North Africans regard themselves as Arabs (unless they emphasize to be Berber !). - Visitors from the Arab World to your country first have to stat
122 Baroque : Of course the South of England was always a bit behind but around 673–735AD us lot were trying to keep the scholarship of the Venerable Bede (you c
123 ME AVN FAN : I heard about Abangan Islam long ago. It is true, it is a way of Islam with Hindhu influences. But this does not mean that the NON-Abangan Islam in I
124 CaliAtenza : exactly...it pretty much all boils down to education. Its pretty amazing how Indonesia has managed to stay above the fray of terrorism and extremism,
125 CaliAtenza : Im talking about the epicenter of the Islamic Faith, Saudi Arabia. If somehow, the Kingdom can be persuaded to turn away from Wahabisim then it would
126 Slider : I agree and disagree with the earlier assertion that this is why so many are duped and radicalized. After all, the myth of the poor Muslims has been
127 SOBHI51 : If people like you start attacking radical Islam and not Islam as such maybe you will get a better results. I am a Muslim i do what my religion asks
128 Santosdumont : The rate of US converts to Islam is, for good or ill, pretty significant.
129 Post contains links Mandala499 : Before I start, I must warn you beforehand that the contents may disturb both radicals and moderates across all faiths, all over the world. This is al
130 Lewis : I had no idea, I thought it was mostly the Romans. Thanks for the material, a very interesting read!
131 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Saudi Arabia may be a theoretical epicenter of Faith (Mekka+Medina) and a real epicenter of petrol, but the country is not an epicentre in the real s
132 Mandala499 : Indeed ! The world would be such a dry place without it... The fundamentalists here have tried in the past, to ban Christmas and Easter as they're ba
133 MD11Engineer : Mandala, My fiancee comes from a place not too far east of yours, the southern Philippines. Actually her family (of the Chinese ethnic minority) lives
134 CaliAtenza : Not to go off topic, but i really think the Israelis and Palestinians are sick of the constant violence and just want to live their lives...
135 Baroque : Happy to help but also damn you in the nicest way because you have made me realise while I know some of the outline, how little I know of the detail
136 Post contains links SOBHI51 : For all who accuse Islam for everything wrong on earth. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8455897.stm
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