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Report: UK Drinking Strains Health Service  
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1679 times:

Britons, I knew you guys loved to drink, but it's having a strain on your national health system. I gotta have some of that British Ale, is it good?  Big grin

Quote:
The cash-strapped National Health Service — the U.K.'s taxpayer-funded medical system — now spends 2.7 billion pounds ($4.4 billion) a year treating patients for drink-related problems, double the amount five years ago, the report said. Total funding for the health care system is currently around 100 billion pounds ($162 billion) a year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34669447/ns/health-addictions/


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20244 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

It's something I have always wondered about. I have been in many different countries, but it's always the English-speaking ones that have this thing for drinking. Not that Norwegians and Swedes don't hold their own, but they don't believe in getting hammered for its own sake.

But in every English-speaking country I've visited, drinking a ton is a virtue. U.S., Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand. It's odd. In Spain, teenagers will stop a drunk friend from drinking more. In the U.K. (et al), they egg him on.

I can't figure out why. The U.S. has the highest per-capita damages due to alcohol. I always figured that it was no coincidence that we have the strictest alcohol laws of any country in the world other than those that ban it outright. I'm probably right...but the laws in England are similar to those elsewhere in Europe. Why do they drink so damned much?


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1657 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
The U.S. has the highest per-capita damages due to alcohol

We have the highest health care costs, which heavily contributes. Also, much less public transit use, so significantly higher DUI rates.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1632 times:

I saw the posted article a few days ago. Maybe if they charged a part of the fee (maybe 100 Pounds per visit) and encouraged mandated conusuling, things might improve.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20244 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1579 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):

We have the highest health care costs, which heavily contributes. Also, much less public transit use, so significantly higher DUI rates.

But arguably, also the strongest binge-drinking culture. I am convinced that if alcohol were simply treated as a part of life as it is in most of Europe, we wouldn't have this problem.

When I was three, I asked my dad for a sip of his scotch. He gave it to me. Of course, because three-year-olds are smarter than adults, I recognized it as the poison that it is and spat it out. From then on, I was permitted to help myself to any alcohol in the house as long as I didn't give it to my friends or (once I was 16) drive after drinking. I never touched the stuff except the occasional sip of my parents' beer.

At 18 I finally did make a conscious decision to go to a party and get drunk. My parents let me go, as long as I promised I wouldn't drive home. I got horribly sick (which is a lesson everyone needs to learn) and I have never been a binge drinker.

In other families where alcohol is a sin/forbidden fruit, binge drinking becomes a right of adulthood and a form of rebellion.

I'm not talking about alcoholism. Alcoholism is a disease with a strong genetic component. In a way, an alcoholic is an alcoholic even before his first sip of alcohol. It just doesn't develop into the full-blown disease until alcohol is added to the system. But alcoholics are a small percentage of the population and this isn't about them. I do wonder sometimes if the UK has a population with a higher genetic predisposition to alcoholism, and since most of the English-speaking world descends from them...

Either way, I hope that the UK considers their course of action very carefully so as not to make the problem worse.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1577 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
But arguably, also the strongest binge-drinking culture

Well, that is partly because in the UK, they drink heavily all the time. Thus, a binge there is different from a binge here.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Maybe if they charged a part of the fee (maybe 100 Pounds per visit) and encouraged mandated conusuling, things might improve.

100 pounds to see a GP? What is the point of national health care then?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
I do wonder sometimes if the UK has a population with a higher genetic predisposition to alcoholism

They have done studies that show societies that have survived significant struggles, like Scotland, have higher rates of heavy drinking and alcoholism.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1570 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
but it's having a strain on your national health system.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
The U.S. has the highest per-capita damages due to alcohol.

As we continue our march towards our own nationalized health system, these sorts of examples take on a new importance. If our British cousins are having trouble footing the bill at their levels of taxation, how can we realistically expect to pay for it here? Surely the demand won't be lower.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Why do they drink so damned much?

I suspect that the answer is a complicated one, but it has its roots in cultures that revel in decadence, and have distorted views of what is "tough", "manly", or "sexy".

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
They have done studies that show societies that have survived significant struggles, like Scotland, have higher rates of heavy drinking and alcoholism.

There is a sheep joke in there, somewhere, ripe for the picking...



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1563 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Thus, a binge there is different from a binge here.

That bing crap is just a bunch of lies made up by the dry movement to make people feel bad. Oh, its five drinks in a row. Big deal, I drink double that on Saturday night and still get up for church on Sunday, feeling fine.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 6):
As we continue our march towards our own nationalized health system, these sorts of examples take on a new importance. If our British cousins are having trouble footing the bill at their levels of taxation, how can we realistically expect to pay for it here? Surely the demand won't be lower.

The argument about public health and related costs was used by the prohibitionists in the US in the 1910s. The argument will not go away.

The drys will continue to try to advance their movement, there are drys everywhere. in 1900 it was with temperance organizations. Today they have MADD, which is nothing but a dry movement hiding behind drunk driving. If drunk driving went away MADD would still be out there trying to stop drinking all together.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
Also, much less public transit use, so significantly higher DUI rates.

I would go out and drink at bar and clubs way more if I could ride the bus or the train. When I don't have to drive I really booze it up.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I have been in many different countries, but it's always the English-speaking ones that have this thing for drinking.

The times I have been to Germany I found the amount of beer and schnapps being consumed was excessive even by my standards. Maybe the people I was around drank more than usual, but still.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1561 times:

Simple solution , raise taxes on alcohol. I believe our policy Czar calls it "nudging". See it works like this ... your behavior costs the collective too much money .. so we make you pay for your risk up front. That should deter you from doing it and pay for it if you choose to anyway..
Snap ! problem solved....

Thanks to those who support federal take over of health care .... we will be paying $20 bucks a beer in the future. Don't believe it ?? go buy a pack of cigarette's...$8.50 a pack now ? Where does that money go... down the tubes that's where ? Think of the billions of dollars they collect from cigarette taxes and the system is still bankrupt ???



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1547 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 6):
our British cousins are having trouble footing the bill at their levels of taxation, how can we realistically expect to pay for it here?

1) Their levels of taxation are not higher than ours, overall
2) What do you call health insurance premiums?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
Today they have MADD, which is nothing but a dry movement hiding behind drunk driving. If drunk driving went away MADD would still be out there trying to stop drinking all together.

Candy Lightner did a great thing when she started MADD and she left because they changed their purpose.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20244 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1547 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
Simple solution , raise taxes on alcohol. I

That's one option. If you make it expensive enough, alcoholics are going to have to start committing crimes for it.

I'd rather an option that addresses the cultural root problems, which are glorification of drunkenness and a view that an ability to hold alcohol is equivalent to toughness.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1539 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
I'd rather an option that addresses the cultural root problems, which are glorification of drunkenness and a view that an ability to hold alcohol is equivalent to toughness.

Like a "just say no campaign" ? When we ask our government to begin to address behavioral issues on our behalf we just go over the edge. Make alcohol illegal , or just leave it alone and let people make their own choices ....and of course make them pay for it. The more of a safety net we provide the more people will just do whatever they want and rely of the net. On the other hand ...if drunkenness leads too death from poverty and disease without no help for you it makes a better deterrent.

The national health program will have to curtail our rights eventually ...its just part of the deal. You can not make the collective pay for those citizens who choose to behave like they want too... eventually big brother has to protect the collective from your bad choices.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4903 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1534 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
That bing crap is just a bunch of lies made up by the dry movement to make people feel bad. Oh, its five drinks in a row. Big deal, I drink double that on Saturday night and still get up for church on Sunday, feeling fine.

What do you drink? Shirley Temples?  Wink

AFAIK, the body metabolizes one drink in 2 hours. So I guess if you got a head start on a weekend, around 4pm, you would still be inebriated in the am 18 hours later. On the other hand, you could have a mutated liver that can metabolize alcohol quickly. In that case, you should be designated a National Treasure and cloned!

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I have been in many different countries, but it's always the English-speaking ones that have this thing for drinking.

The times I have been to Germany I found the amount of beer and schnapps being consumed was excessive even by my standards. Maybe the people I was around drank more than usual, but still.

I always thought the Russians were Numero Uno with Vodka on Saturday nights.

Alcohol is abused in the West because it is the only legal drug available. Don't people get drunk because they seek oblivion?

I love Happy Hour - a couple of drinks, a warm fuzzy feeling of goodwill to all. I like to leave before I start proposing to the waitresses.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1532 times:



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
On the other hand ...if drunkenness leads too death from poverty and disease without no help for you it makes a better deterrent.

Yeah, that's done a GREAT job with drugs in this country.  sarcastic 



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1524 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Yeah, that's done a GREAT job with drugs in this country

I believe that it does in some ways ... the threat of the life a drug addict faces does deter young people from choosing to "just say no" not all of them of course.

So what do we do ? Rehab does not work , Crashing and living on the streets does not work , dieing from OD does not work and breaking the law and ending up in prison does not deter either . So what the hell do we do ? Just keep paying for their health-care and rehab ?



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1508 times:
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Quoting Comorin (Reply 12):
I always thought the Russians were Numero Uno with Vodka on Saturday nights.

I have only known a couple of Russians and those guys could drink vodka like I would drink beer.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
Thanks to those who support federal take over of health care .... we will be paying $20 bucks a beer in the future. Don't believe it ?? go buy a pack of cigarette's...$8.50 a pack now ?

Exactly! Sooner or later we will be paying extra money for everything that is bad. This is kind of like airline fees for checked bags. If the fee doesn't effect you you don't care, but in the good ole' days the fee wasn't there. Some of you will say "sure let the smokers pay $X for their smokes, I don't care; because it doesn't effect me" The next risky behavior they will want to tax even more will be alcohol. Some will say that is ok because I don't drink. One of these days they may say "lets charge $X for a bicycle because people fall off of them and get hurt" What about climbing, what about ladders, what about automobiles, motorcycles, light aircraft? The list of potentially dangerous things is nearly endless. Sooner of later the tax for "public health" will have to catch up with other potential dangers too.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
If you make it expensive enough, alcoholics are going to have to start committing crimes for it.

or making it themselves which is the best way to avoid taxes, which is only a crime (in many states) if you sell it. However when you have that kind of thing going on you will get shady operators who will sell an unsafe product. Brewers and distillers make a pure product that in moderation is not bad for you. Moonshiners do what they do to make money without paying taxes. Make legal booze too expensive the bathtub gin will be back in no time. With that you will see an increase in health problems due to bad booze.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 12):
What do you drink? Shirley Temples?

Beer for me. Of course I'm usually in bed by 10, so getting up at 8:30 isn't much of an issue.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
Where does that money go... down the tubes that's where ? Think of the billions of dollars they collect from cigarette taxes and the system is still bankrupt ???

Michigan used its money from the Tobacco settlement to balance the budget. I guess the state wasn't so worried about paying those health care costs after all.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1508 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
1) Their levels of taxation are not higher than ours, overall

So they are going to have to raise taxes and pay more for their NHS?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
2) What do you call health insurance premiums?

In the context of a National Health System, TAXES.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
The argument will not go away.

Indeed, one must only look to the anti-smoking fascists to see this.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
When we ask our government to begin to address behavioral issues on our behalf we just go over the edge.

Some might call that, legislating morality, and there seems to be quite the double standard when it comes to that.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1506 times:
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Quoting Lowrider (Reply 16):
Indeed, one must only look to the anti-smoking fascists to see this.

I don't smoke anymore and I am not a fan of smoking. I don't like going to smokey bars, but I will stand up for smokers because I know that when the dogooders are done with cigarettes they will come after alcohol again. The nanny state people are never happy so they must take time from their lives to make the rest of us miserable. Too bad the anti smoking nazis can't put some of their hostility and energy into something else, like figuring out how to lower my taxes or to get good fuel economy out of a 1-ton pickup, without reducing its power.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1503 times:



Quoting Comorin (Reply 12):
AFAIK, the body metabolizes one drink in 2 hours.

That's a very bad definition, since it needs to define the drink first. I prefer the very, very rough data saying, that an average person is capable of metabolizing 0.1 grams of ethanol per hour and kilogram of weight. Don't forget, it's metabolizing only, ethanol is removed from the body via renal system as well.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 12):
On the other hand, you could have a mutated liver that can metabolize alcohol quickly

That's, in fact, very simple and there is nothing special about it.. There is an enzyme, called alcohol-dehydrogenasis, breaking down ethanol into acetaldehyde. It's created by the stomach and liver. If a person drinks regularly, his stomach and liver produces more of it, so alcohol tolerance is growing. However, if the organs become damaged by abuse of ethanol, alcohol-dehydrogenasis production is decreasing. Note that the enzyme production is strictly individual and depends on gender and race.
Long story short, if you drink regularly reasonable doses of ethanol, you develop a tolerance.
The problem is that there's no universal definition of this dose.

Now back to the topic; in 2005 the UK government collected just under 14 billion GPB in excise taxes and VAT related to alcoholic beverages. If the consumption increased since 2005, so did the tax revenue. IMHO it should be more than enough to foot the bill.


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1487 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
But in every English-speaking country I've visited, drinking a ton is a virtue. U.S., Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand. It's odd. In Spain, teenagers will stop a drunk friend from drinking more. In the U.K. (et al), they egg him on.

I can't figure out why. Why do they drink so damned much?

Why? Because of the Anglo-Saxon puritanical "Christian" hypocrisy they embrace and bought into. Add in the capitalistic glorification embraced as religion that has left them spiritually and emotionally bankrupt and you can understand why they feel empty, alone, and depressed. That's why.

[Edited 2010-01-04 19:46:36]

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1475 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 16):

In the context of a National Health System, TAXES.

In the context of the US health "system", its still a tax.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 16):

So they are going to have to raise taxes and pay more for their NHS?

Huh? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 14):
I believe that it does in some ways ... the threat of the life a drug addict faces does deter young people from choosing to "just say no" not all of them of course.

And the allure of the risky behavior pulls in others.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 14):

So what do we do ? Rehab does not work

Yes it does.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 14):
So what the hell do we do ?

Legalize and tax marijuana. De-criminalize the use of the rest.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 14):
Just keep paying for their health-care and rehab ?

That's what putting them in jail does.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1465 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 6):
As we continue our march towards our own nationalized health system, these sorts of examples take on a new importance. If our British cousins are having trouble footing the bill at their levels of taxation, how can we realistically expect to pay for it here? Surely the demand won't be lower.

A government funded health care system raises many of these questions. Should we be responsible for paying for treatments of alcoholics? Expensive diabetes treatment for patients who still eat terribly and don't exercise? Asthma treatments for people who continue to smoke? Trauma and rehabilitation services for someone injured from not wearing their seat belts while driving?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
I'd rather an option that addresses the cultural root problems, which are glorification of drunkenness and a view that an ability to hold alcohol is equivalent to toughness.

That's the most effective solution. Unfortunately, its also the most difficult to do. That would probably take two or three generations to do.


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1458 times:



Quoting Aa757first (Reply 21):
A government funded health care system raises many of these questions. Should we be responsible for paying for treatments of alcoholics? Expensive diabetes treatment for patients who still eat terribly and don't exercise? Asthma treatments for people who continue to smoke? Trauma and rehabilitation services for someone injured from not wearing their seat belts while driving?

While I'm not saying you're doing this, everyone can point fingers at someone else and find a reason (or 10) why they shouldn't have to pay for that person's "bad decisions" all the while overlooking their own health risks.

Joe Smith could ask, "I'm not gay, why should I pay for a gay guy with AIDS", "I have no genetic predispositions to cancer, heart attack, stroke or alzheimer's why should I pay for those people over there", "I didn't binge drink in college or experiment with drugs why should I pay for some college student that overdosed on alcohol, drugs, pills", "Why should I pay for that person over there that didn't take his medications as indicated", "Why should I have to pay for childbirth since I'm never having kids", or "Air traffic controllers, doctors, CEOs, VPs, have too much unmanaged stress in their life why should I pay for them when they chose high stress jobs"?

The list goes on and on. At some point you have to realize that what comes around, goes around, and whether or not you need it your current/future spouse, children, parents, etc will. It all averages out in the end.

Unfortunately, the US has indulged itself in faux-libertarianism and sanctimoniousness that a huge swath of the population thinks their own welfare / tax breaks / subsidies are inherent rights, yet everyone else's welfare / tax breaks / subsidies are pork, evil, or handouts. There's a huge difference between rugged individualism and "fuck you, I got mine".


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20244 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1450 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 16):

In the context of a National Health System, TAXES.

Yup. Except right now, only the insured pay that tax. And oh do we pay it dearly.


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1409 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Huh? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

I am talking about a health system that has repeatedly been held up as one for the US to emulate. If one attempts to discuss its shortcomings, you are labeled as ignorant or provincial. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
Except right now, only the insured pay that tax.

You should have said only the insured and the those who actually pay taxes because, as you should well know, it is not only private insurance that pays the costs associated with alcohol abuse.

I see this as another nail in the coffin of the fallacy that any government run health scheme will be any more affordable or financially efficient.



Proud OOTSK member
25 DocLightning : Hardly. A government-run system would have these people in treatment sooner. Treatment costs money.
26 Lowrider : Only until you get towards the end of your allocation for the fiscal year, then rationing, prioritization, and waiting lists kick in.
27 Arsenal@LHR : Not only is binge drinking a national disgrace, it's nice to know taxpayers money is being used to pay for the drunks. I have another idea, it's to do
28 Lukeyboy95 : I think in Scotland its a heady mis of desperacy and routine that keeps us in this downward spirral of binge-drinking... The attitude is often one of
29 Offloaded : In part because in the UK you have huge competition between the major supermarkets (ASDA, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morisons) and endless 2 for 1 / 3 for 2
30 Lukeyboy95 : Absolutely - commonly found to be even selling at a loss to 'lure' unsuspecting people in. Illistration - Tesco recently sold 24 cans of 500ml Tennan
31 Lukeyboy95 : erm.... that wasn't the whole story... I'll continue... 42p each. For consecutive three days they entirely sold out... Joe Blog is crazy for cheap bee
32 GDB : It's a Northern European thing, at least on this side of the pond. But then many of our European cousins work shorter hours, have more lesuire time, m
33 Lukeyboy95 : Amen to that ! They TRIED that up here but there is ALWAYS a loophole so nothing really changed whatso-over.... e.g Drinks promotions must now last a
34 DocLightning : Hitler once said that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe. Are you using this technique? Do you have any factual knowledge
35 Lowrider : Then how do you explain this report that generated this thread. I haven't worked in a nationalized healthcare system, but I *HAVE* taken some basic e
36 Boeing4ever : Easy solution... Institute a five drink minimum at all UK Hospitals. B4e-Forever New Frontiers
37 TristarAtLCA : Could not agree with you more. I am still amazed that it is legal for retailers to use alcohol as a loss leader to entice customers into their stores
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