OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24875 posts, RR: 60 Posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3223 times:
Not good news for Iceland if it happens.
Britain warned Iceland that it would be frozen out of the European Union after its President abruptly vetoed the repayment of a £3.6 billion loan.
The Treasury expected Reykjavik to rubberstamp the terms of repayment for the loan extended by Britain and the Netherlands at the height of the financial crisis. The loan meant that 400,000 savers with deposits in Icesave did not lose their money.
Aero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3070 posts, RR: 23 Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3197 times:
Yeah, me again, and yeah, me with my same opinion again:
If us being frozen out of the EU means that we won’t be allowed to enter, I am not disappointed. I want Iceland simply away from the EU, as I’ve said some time before.
Prebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6016 posts, RR: 55 Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3139 times:
From what I hear from friends in Iceland there is no way that Iceland will enter the EU. The mandatory public referendum will simply be turned down by a large majority.
That said, it is not fair that every single Icelandic individual - infants and oldies included - shall bleed £11,000 because 400,000 British and Dutch investors gambled their money for greed - and lost - together with a handful of morons who just happened to carry an Icelandic passport. Morons who mostly had learned their dirty tricks at British business schools.
The fact is simply that Britain is at fault in this issue.
The problem is that one certain Mr. Brown due to internal Bristish financial collapses in 2008 painted himself up into a corner from where he cannot move. It will take at least an new British PM to get out of this deadlock.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11111 posts, RR: 63 Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3104 times:
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3): That said, it is not fair that every single Icelandic individual - infants and oldies included - shall bleed £11,000 because 400,000 British and Dutch investors gambled their money for greed - and lost
Right, so putting money in a bank is greedy then?
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3): The fact is simply that Britain is at fault in this issue.
So because British nationals, amongst many others, lost their money - it's their fault... for saving money in a bank. You don't seem to understand the concept of banking - if you want to gamble your money then you go to the bookies or play the stock markets, if you want to keep it safe, you bank it. The fault lies only with the Icelandic banks, not their customers.
If Iceland doesn't repay this money then their credit rating will go from severely dented to worthless, which it's rapidly becoming regardless the longer this carries on. The IMF have already stated that they will not extend Iceland any further lines of credit or aid until this agreement is finalised, it's a case of cutting off their noses to spite their face. The initial bail out was only given on the proviso that the UK and the Netherlands were repaid in full, and defaulting now will ruin international relations far beyond those directly involved.
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4233 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3079 times:
I understand that in theory Britain has the right to be unhappy with the Icelandic gov, that said... I think this is a case of the large bullying the small, because they can. I see no difference between investing in Icelandic banks giving you 15% interest (are people so dumb to realize that is a little risky for a ''bank''), and investing in stocks, bonds, and other securities.
If Iceland is made to pay for this 'investing' decision individuals made, then doesn't the world deserve their money back from the US and UK over the TRILLIONS lost in the mortgage securities that their banks repackaged and sold to the world as ''safe'' investments in what is now worthless US real estate?
Where do you draw the line?
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 1115 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3025 times:
I am all for banks paying back money to deposit-owners.
However after all this that has gone down with the banks the only bank that really have to cover its costs are Icesave???
A bank that no longer exists and that were quickly taken out of business by Britain using a terrorist legislation.
Now this entire issue stinks, Icelanders shouldn't pay because their country nationalised a bank on the brink of collapse and saved many small deposit-holders.
Come back when the British and dutch government have sorted the trillions that their own banks lost (RBS, ING, Abn-Amro mess, HBOS etc etc) and have paid back every euro of that then I will gladly demand that the Icelandic do the same, until then let the Icelandic keep their money and get their economy back on its feet.
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1713 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3009 times:
Is Britain even a member of the EU? If they're not, they have no say in the matter, unless they strong arm the dutch into strong arming the Belgians and French.
I wonder if it's issues like this that convinced Norway not to join the EU, that and they didn't want to see all their oil money, which they have alot of, going to France and Germany.
I could have elite status if I wanted it, but flying the same airline all the time is boring.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7429 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2971 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4): Right, so putting money in a bank is greedy then?
It certainly can be. Many people have been powerfully educated by depositing their money in banks that are not within a stable financial system, or one that they understand. And they lost their money.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13332 posts, RR: 64 Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2968 times:
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8): I wonder if it's issues like this that convinced Norway not to join the EU, that and they didn't want to see all their oil money, which they have alot of, going to France and Germany.
Both France and even more Germany are net contributors. This means that these countries pay more into the EU than they receive.
Elite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2760 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2959 times:
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12): Both France and even more Germany are net contributors. This means that these countries pay more into the EU than they receive.
And Britain, too. A lot of money from these 3 countries goes into infrastructure and whatnot in many other countries, especially in Eastern Europe.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13332 posts, RR: 64 Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2944 times:
Quoting Elite (Reply 13): Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
Both France and even more Germany are net contributors. This means that these countries pay more into the EU than they receive.
And Britain, too. A lot of money from these 3 countries goes into infrastructure and whatnot in many other countries, especially in Eastern Europe.
I was just countering Northstar´s allegation that, if Norway would join the EU, all of their oil money would be siphoned off by Germany and France. As you rightly stated the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Austria and the Netherlands are net contributors as well. Belgium and Luxembourg are net receivers, but this is mostly due to the EU institutions located in these countries, which add a lot to their economies. Most net receivers (those who get more from the EU than they pay into it) are located in southern and eastern Europe.
B747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 982 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2931 times:
Quoting Aero145 (Reply 2): If us being frozen out of the EU means that we won’t be allowed to enter, I am not disappointed. I want Iceland simply away from the EU, as I’ve said some time before.
I have always thought that when push comes to shove, Iceland wouldn't join the EU anyway. I reckon Iceland is probably better off out of the EU anyway, so if the UK did veto their entry it wouldn't make a difference.
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3): shall bleed £11,000 because 400,000 British and Dutch investors gambled their money for greed - and lost - together with a handful of morons who just happened to carry an Icelandic passport. Morons who mostly had learned their dirty tricks at British business schools.
I completely agree. If someone came up to me and asked for £11,000 to pay off investors in another country that were sold a banking service by someone I don't know, I'd tell them to f@%k off. Innocent people should not pay for the mistakes of the few.
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4): Right, so putting money in a bank is greedy then?
Whenever one buys a product one normally checks the background of the manufacturer, shop...etc to ascertain if it is a quality product. Banks are no different. I was wowed by the rather impressive interest rates offered by Icelandic banks, however when I looked into them I wasn't satisfied that the banks were as solid as I has hoped. Instead, I put my money in an HSBC account. The interest rate was less, but I was happier about the solidity of the bank.
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8): Is Britain even a member of the EU? If they're not, they have no say in the matter,
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6270 posts, RR: 23 Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2923 times:
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8): Is Britain even a member of the EU? If they're not, they have no say in the matter, unless they strong arm the dutch into strong arming the Belgians and French.
That question was a joke, right??
Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 16): Doesn't the thread topic give it away?
Just a tiny bit, yes.
Anyway......if Iceland didn't want to repay then it shouldn't have accepted the help in the first place. If it was just a question of a bank going bust and people losing their money, that would be one thing. However, the government accepted arrangements because it didn't want that to happen, and now wants to wriggle out to appease public opinion.
✈ Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ✈
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24875 posts, RR: 60 Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2911 times:
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3): British and Dutch investors gambled their money for greed - and lost - together with a handful of morons who just happened to carry an Icelandic passport. Morons who mostly had learned their dirty tricks at British business schools
( not quite the rich bankers and Eton elite ).
Icelandic chill hits the Costa pensioners
Hundreds of pensioners living in Spain fear they could lose their homes in the sun after signing up for an equity-release scheme with failed Icelandic bank Landsbanki.
Some of these expats have racked up hundreds of thousands of pounds of debts after signing up for a type of scheme that has been banned in Britain since 1990.
Many owe more than their properties are worth. Some of the elderly homeowners took the money because they needed to pay for medical treatment.
Sometimes it isn't about greed, it's about the need to do something with your money. Take a lot of British retirees across Spain and Portugal for example. People retired 20 years ago with respectable savings. The GBP£ interest rate was 14%. The GBP wasn't that strong against the PTE or ESP at the time, but the interest your capital was earning was just fine. Spain/Portugal were cheap places to live at the time too. Later interest rates fell, but the GBP gained a lot of ground against the PTE / ESP later becoming the EUR. Fastforward a couple of years. You've got interest rates at 1.5%, a GBP/EUR damn near at parity, and people living in places that aren't cheap to live anymore. Too old to go back to work, and eating into their capital at an alarming rate. And remember, this was the generation that saved for their retirement.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
Lukeyboy95 From Papua New Guinea, joined Apr 2008, 951 posts, RR: 35 Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2813 times:
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3): 400,000 British and Dutch investors gambled their money for greed -
This seems a bit disillusioned to me, not to offend. These aren't the not-so-canny Bank of Scotland Investors who were reckless with their investments; this is a case of just ordinary citizens puting their savings and trust into this bank. I think its wholey unfair to paint them with this 'greedy' label...
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6270 posts, RR: 23 Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2774 times:
Quoting Lukeyboy95 (Reply 20): This seems a bit disillusioned to me, not to offend. These aren't the not-so-canny Bank of Scotland Investors who were reckless with their investments; this is a case of just ordinary citizens puting their savings and trust into this bank. I think its wholey unfair to paint them with this 'greedy' label...
Definitely. And, it's quite clear they weren't all Robert Maxwell types living a fat life and out to rip everyone off who they might chance upon. Many of these people are ordinary people wanting to invest their hard-earned cash. It cannot be right to blame these people when the Icelandic banking regulators clearly dropped the ball and should have seen this coming; ditto the government. In an economy the size of Iceland's there is no way that the government and its agencies shouldn't/couldn't have been aware of what was happening. It is not good enough to simply dismiss it as 'well, it's just some cowboys who happened to have Icelandic passports'.
✈ Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ✈
RobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4505 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2695 times:
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3): That said, it is not fair that every single Icelandic individual - infants and oldies included - shall bleed £11,000 because 400,000 British and Dutch investors gambled their money for greed - and lost
Absolute rubbish! It had absolutely nothing to do with greed. At least not here in The Netherlands. I remember very distinctly these Icelandic banks running very respectable advertising campaigns in the Dutch press. Their advertisements made no hollow promises. The only thing they offered was an interest rate on savings of about ¾% above the average interest rate for domestic savings accounts. Nothing more than that.
However I didn't succumb to the temptation. Call me unadventurous, but I like my capital close at hand.
Unfortunately Iceland is threatening to get itself into even more trouble. Standard and Poors will probably lower the creditworthiness of the country because of Iceland's dismissal of the deal with the British and Dutch authorities.
And then there is the question of Iceland's outstanding credit from the IMF.
Swings and roundabouts.
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
25 RussianJet: Exactly. And, I love it how people are keen to make it sound as though this was some get-rich-quich scheme run by con men, when it was savings accoun
26 Aero145: Good one. (getur þvà miður gleymt þvÃ)
29 RussianJet: Hmm. I'm British, and I don't think Kazakhstan ever had a cod war with Iceland, or significant amounts of savers losing money with Icesave! Aaaaaanyw
30 Aero145: No sh*t? I knew that, but I said what I said because you have the Kazakhstani flag beside your user name. You having a bad hair day? This was suppose
31 Eaa3: The interesting thing is though that Iceland has already aggreed to compensate the U.K. and Dutch Governments. They did so in September when a bill wa
32 Evomutant: Both of those countries have a Veto though. If they don't like what is offered, there is nothing to stop them stamping their feet and slamming the do
33 Eaa3: Yeah but why would they. Iceland has agreed to pay this money. That´s not the issue at hand. There is quite simply a law in effect in Iceland that s
34 Baexecutive: Both the UK & Dutch governments are fully entitled to go to any lengths to get the money they are owed back from Iceland and why shouldn't they? A to
35 Eaa3: Yes they are entitled to blackmail a country that is 250x smaller then they are. After all soveign countries are basically "allowed" to do anything.
36 Baexecutive: No I wouldn't call it blackmail, I would call it operating in the world of International Finance. Would you feel the same if the situation was revers
37 Eaa3: Yes it should but this is not the point. Iceland wasn´t legally obligated to guarantee the insurance deposit fund according to EU directive 94/19/EC
38 TristarAtLCA: The Icelandic President, Olafur Grimsson, was on Newsnight tonight saying its debt to the British and Dutch governments would be paid and stated: "The
39 Eaa3: " target=_blank>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/...9.stm Indeed that is the case. The parliment approved and he signed that bill on the second of
40 MillwallSean: The money being offered to Iceland comes from a few different sources, however the most important sources are the Nordic countries. There is a fairly
41 Prebennorholm: There is no doubt that the Icelandics want to be good friends with the Dutch and British. But if that's not possible, then it is not a major disaster
42 Theredbaron: Excelent post, its a pity that huge financial scandals in Wall Street perpetrated by thousands are seldom talked about and this Icelandic crisis is m
43 Baroque: Have a care arguing with Khazakistan, they might sic Borat onto Iceland. What is paying the UK and whoever a bit over the odds compared with having t
44 RussianJet: I assumed so, it just lacked relevance, that's all. I would have a bad hair day occasionally, if I actually had any hair. Well, that's what happens.
45 TheSonntag: Maybe, but the thought that an isolationistic Nordic cooperation will be strong enough to protect you if the major players like the UK threaten to im
46 NorthstarBoy: the EU, in my typical American mind, is synomous with the schengen zone because most members of the EU are also in the schengen zone, meaning you only
47 Eaa3: Your confusing 2 things together: The IMF assistance and the Icesave deposits. One have nothing to do with the other. The IMF is not a part of the Br
48 RussianJet: Which is obviously a total misconception. Slight contradiction with....... But anyway, what does any of that have to do with the prospect of Iceland
49 Aero145: Well isn’t that what this forum is often about? lol Well I’m on the way there at least.
50 Eaa3: Here is an interesting article in the Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...should-not-be-bullied-1859930.html The terms that the Icelan
51 RussianJet: And what is unreasonable about rejecting those particular conditions? It was never up for re-negotiation. They knew what the deal was from the beginn
52 Eaa3: Who says it was never up for re-negotiation. Offcourse it was. It´s not as if Britain and Holland have can say that this is not up for negotiation,
53 Theredbaron: Business as usual ! now, taxpayers paying for mistakes of corrupt and stupid banks. where have I have heard that before? Its a shame that Iceland is
54 Eaa3: Btw. there is a fifth step: 1. Icelandic bank Landsbanki opens branch in U.K. 2. Landsbanki collects deposits from savers in the U.K. 3. Landsbanki le
55 TristarAtLCA: Not sure what the relevance of where money is invested after it is deposited in X bank actually is. If they chose to invest in the UK, Europe or anyw
56 Evomutant: 6. Icelandic people happy with lax financial regulation of banks, live off the profits that bought a fishing outpost to the top of the HDI. They love
57 GDB: All this stuff about Iceland and the EU, well they did change their view in that respect when the shit hit the fan. 'No thanks', for years, then 'oh w
58 RussianJet: Who says??? The terms and conditions that the financial rescue package was offered under and accepted! You clearly don't understand what's actually h
59 Baexecutive: Its quite simple really, like I have already said they have agreed to a loan from the IMF with the condition that the issue of compensation regarding
60 Eaa3: It´s simple. It had nothing to do with Iceland. You had a couple of banks and companies in Iceland that decided to expand abroad and participated in
61 Prebennorholm: Dear GDB, stop wondering because it isn't so. The nation Iceland never owned a newspaper boot in Britain. Mostly seven individuals, living in London
62 MillwallSean: However Norway seems to be doing pretty fine with its policies if you ask me, worlds richest country and all that points in that direction... Its as
63 Baroque: Are you telling us that those banks were BOTH bailed out AND defaulted. Details please. Fascinating?????? I know they made losses, but not that they
64 Prebennorholm: Dear Sonntag, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean with this. The fact is that Britain and Denmark together with five more countries were
65 RussianJet: I mentioned the IMF package where?? You yourself say it is not just about the IMF (which I never mentioned). There were many discussions between the
66 Eaa3: What are you referring to when you say "Financial rescue package" if not the IMF package.
67 RussianJet: UK financial support in terms of helping Iceland live up to its obligations to compensate those who lost money.
68 Eaa3: What the U.K. did is to help the Icelandic insurance deposit fund live up to it´s obligations, without asking it first though. But there is no gover
69 RussianJet: Well, the Icelandic President continues to refer to obligations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8444829.stm
70 Racko: At least in Germany Kaupthing Edge offered interest rates sometimes twice as high as the German banks. It isn't rocket science to figure out that ther
71 Eaa3: FT: Iceland has no clear legal obligation to pay up: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8c166a9c-fbf7-11de-9c29-00144feab49a.html For those that don´t have FT
72 ME AVN FAN: Iceland to become a "member" of the Russian Federation ? Its capital renamed into Reykjavov, and airlines on Iceland starting to convert their fleets
73 Oldeuropean: Oh, and I've thought that the UK is already the 51st state of the US. Axel
74 GDB: First up, all this stuff about 'Nordic Solidarity', Iceland is not like other Nordic nations, they themselves (when it suited them) were the first to
75 ME AVN FAN: We have to be careful with generalisations. A Norwegian school colleague in London in fall 72 explained to me the differences between Norwegians, Swe
76 Eaa3: I think that this whole thread is a good demonstration of why Iceland, and perhaps Switzerland and Norway, must join the EU. This whole Deposit Insur
77 Baroque: An interesting stoush. Before the UK posters get too upset about the dastardly deeds of the Icelandic banks, and they are pretty dastardly, think back
78 ME AVN FAN: Why not the IMF ? Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are full members of the IMF. But I would rather propose the BIS (Bank for International Settlements
79 RussianJet: So the UK is not part of the Schengen agreement and hasn't adopted the Euro (and is not alone in either of those respects). Neither of these are/were
80 Eaa3: Here are a couple of interesting links on this subject: Times: Iceland says ‘Can’t pay, won’t pay’ — and it is right http://www.timesonline.
81 ME AVN FAN: - I never did do so, but I disagree with the ways of the UK towards Iceland which is arrogant and imperialistic - No, not at all No, it has NOT. The
82 Eaa3: It also shouldn´t be underestimated how integrated Iceland is with the EU. It has fully adopted 22 of 35 law chapter of the EU through the EEA aggre
83 ME AVN FAN: Sure, but if the UK wants to "freeze out" Iceland in whatever way, Iceland may have to check different ways. Iceland may give more emphasis to EFTA,
84 Prebennorholm: That's hardly needed due to the scale of the problem. Iceland is almost exactly the size of an average sized Swiss kanton, or two third of Luxembourg
85 AverageUser: Nobody apparently has noticed that Iceland IS already in the EU in the sense of the EEA agreement and will stay there. That was actually the prerequis
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