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8 Year Old On US No-Fly List  
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

This is another embarrassment to the TSA. Mikey Hicks, an 8 year old boy, has been on the no-fly list ever since he was a baby, and continues to get patted down at airports today - just like how he has been at the age of 2.

I would comment on how ridiculous the TSA and this no-fly list is when I read something else - a man by the name of Mario Labbé was on the no-fly list, and was constantly questioned at airports. He then changed his name to François Mario Labbé, and the problem vanished. The question is, wouldn't terrorists figure this out? By merely changing your name you can get past this "1 million strong no-fly list" that the TSA is so proud about.

I love flying, and I love going to the US, but flying to the US seems to be a bigger and bigger pain everyday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/nyregion/14watchlist.html

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1739 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3572 times:



Quoting Elite (Thread starter):
I love flying, and I love going to the US, but flying to the US seems to be a bigger and bigger pain everyday.

Yep...I do too...I wanted to travel Via LAX to New Zealand but want to visit the city too...but the hassle of getting visas and security puts me off...


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2718 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

What a joke about the 8 year old boy, laughable.

I have to agree with FCA767.

I have wanted to fly to Israel to visit friends there but have heard that the security measure are even worse than in the US. Others have said that going through Tel Aviv is hell on earth, with security people there very rude etc... don't want to be made to feel like a terrorist even though I have nothing to hide, I'd rather go somewhere else and have a relaxing time without all that.

Its a shame that parts of the world have come to this, ruins air travel for everyone.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
What a joke about the 8 year old boy, laughable.

It's hardly a joke. Isn't this kind of behaviour towards an 8 year old kid quite strange, and, well, illegal? People who do that sort of thing are generally locked away.

How can the authorities be so stupid that a little kid gets on the watch list. I mean really - it's outrageous that some crazy person can get on a plane and try to blow himself up (despite authorities being warned by parents) - and yet some little, innocent kid has to endure the ultimate of all embarrassment. Of course, when he gets older, the other school kids will surely give the kid hell over this.

The authorities should be ashamed of themselves. And to respond that no 8 year old exists on the watch list, but that they wouldn't discuss specifics - that's bureaucratic speak for "we stuffed this up big time and we've been caught".

I notice that the "myth" on the TSA web-page has vanished. Perhaps it was true after all...

And speaking of that page, what a rude, poorly worded site. It is sarcastic, rude and condescending. This is the language of an internet forum of 13 year olds, but even so, some of them write with better manners. How can anyone have confidence in an authority that allows 8 year old kids to be fondled under the name of security, and then makes a joke of its shortcomings on a sarcastic and rude webpage. It's a crime. And if I were in charge, that webpage would be gone - quick smart.

I've also heard first hand accounts about Tel Aviv. I'll avoid the place, and the country. Not because I don't like the people - just because I prefer travel to be easy - and not be treated like a criminal. If I get that treatment, it's the quickest way to ensure I never go back.

Same for others, I'd guess.

[Edited 2010-01-14 03:20:21 by cpd]

User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

There are 1,600 people with the name "Michael Hicks"... could it be possible that 1,599 innocent Michael Hicks' are denied boarding?

User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3545 times:



Quoting FCA767 (Reply 1):
Yep...I do too...I wanted to travel Via LAX to New Zealand but want to visit the city too...but the hassle of getting visas and security puts me off...

Umm, unless you are not a Brit, you don't need a Visa?


User currently offlineFCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1739 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3519 times:



Quoting LHR380 (Reply 5):
Umm, unless you are not a Brit, you don't need a Visa?

I remember reading that you have to fill in a new form now...instead of a visa waiver...or something...maybe it's easy to do but the security aspect now...although if I was going for a road trip and not just a 1 day stay then I might do it...
And Besides everyone notices the guys who are trying to light things aren't they...

To be honest, the quicker way is to have a ticket queue system for each flight, so that you go up when it's your turn...I.E you can just be duty free shopping rather than queing up in long lines...


User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3502 times:



Quoting FCA767 (Reply 6):
I remember reading that you have to fill in a new form now...instead of a visa waiver...or something.

An ETA that takes about 2 minutes to fill on on the web and is free!
Not really a valid excuse for not going to the US, and on all my visits there, have not noticed anything different from UK security really. In fact am really looking frwd to my next trip. Security is something we need and have to put up with, and unless the agent does something really wrong or what have you around me, there is nothing for me to complain about.


User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

All 8 year olds should be placed on no-fly lists  duck 

Although on another note, if he was on a no-fly list, why was he allowed to fly??



That'll teach you
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3459 times:



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 8):
Although on another note, if he was on a no-fly list, why was he allowed to fly??

A lot of people on this "list" apparently just gets questioned a lot... it even says on the official TSA website that it would result in either a denial or delay of boarding or entering the United States etc, etc.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Once again just proving how useless the TSA really is. Just like the disposable razors that were removed from my CHECKED bag the other day. Not carry on. Not my backpack. My checked suitcase, which I would have no access to. I feel so much safer now that I was parted with 3 deadly disposable razors.  sarcastic 


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2718 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3273 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
It's hardly a joke. Isn't this kind of behaviour towards an 8 year old kid quite strange, and, well, illegal? People who do that sort of thing are generally locked away.

I mean stupid, laughable, funny strange pathetic, whatever you want to call it.

But I'm not sure why you would think its illegal though, an 8 year can be a threat like anyone else can't he ?? especially if his parents put him up to it.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2670 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

There are always going to be children with names similar to those on the "No-fly" list. A simple call to the proper persons would have cleared the child at the ticket counter and he could have passed through security just like everyone else.

This news story is complete BS and would have never been published had there not been the incident in DTW.


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

An 8 year old?? And the problem with security is that they didn't have scanners, not the fact that the people in charge are complete idiots!!
btw, if that kid would be my 8 year old, I don't think I would take a stranger touching him too nicely.



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 13):
btw, if that kid would be my 8 year old, I don't think I would take a stranger touching him too nicely.

My thoughts as well - and hence my suggestion above. I'd be screaming the "P" word.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
But I'm not sure why you would think its illegal though, an 8 year can be a threat like anyone else can't he ?? especially if his parents put him up to it.

See Ezeiza's reply above for the reason.

[Edited 2010-01-14 19:04:00 by cpd]

User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2718 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3227 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 14):
My thoughts as well - and hence my suggestion above. I'd be screaming the "P" word.

That is just ridiculous, why shouldn't an 8 year old be searched like anyone else. Why would it come down to being a pedophile who pats down your boy, that's just utter rubbish.

Another hysterical parent in our midst.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3216 times:



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 15):
That is just ridiculous, why shouldn't an 8 year old be searched like anyone else. Why would it come down to being a pedophile who pats down your boy, that's just utter rubbish.

Another hysterical parent in our midst.

it looks like the TSA is hysterical.
Probably the guy is not a pedophile (he better not be!), but honestly .. an 8 year old???? If they really consider the kid to be a terrorist (yeah right!) just asking a few questions would do the job. He's 8, he wouldn't stand the pressure if he in fact was planning on doing something illegal on a plane.



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2718 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

As far as I'm concerned, I if I have to be searched and made to feel like a criminal every time I travel then every passenger man woman child should be. I'm 42 years old and I don't want to blow myself up or anyone else for that matter, so search the lot of us, even babies. I don't care how old or young they might be, even flight attendants the whole damn lot of us, incl cargo freight.

The moment you start excluding some people/groups etc then things will happen, mark my words.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3198 times:



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
As far as I'm concerned, I if I have to be searched and made to feel like a criminal every time I travel then every passenger man woman child should be.

Do you know how many resources are being wasted because TSA agents are searching people who pose no threat at all? It cannot be 100% secure, but the intelligence exists so that we can narrow down the list of "suspects". Look at the incident at DTW.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2718 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3186 times:



Quoting Elite (Reply 18):
Do you know how many resources are being wasted because TSA agents are searching people who pose no threat at all? It cannot be 100% secure, but the intelligence exists so that we can narrow down the list of "suspects". Look at the incident at DTW.

How many resources will be wasted if something BIG happens somewhere ?

We still have to try and leave no stone unturned regardless of the cost or inconvenience or time/money wasted .

As some would say, what cost of a human life ??

I agree that we have to get smarter about things, eg where the TSA gets it info from, but at the end on the day there is only so much anyone can do.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3119 times:



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
The moment you start excluding some people/groups etc then things will happen, mark my words.



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 19):
How many resources will be wasted if something BIG happens somewhere ?



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 19):
I agree that we have to get smarter about things, eg where the TSA gets it info from, but at the end on the day there is only so much anyone can do.

I see your point, but let's not forget this poor kid has been black listed since he was two!?! How much damage can a two year old deliberatley make? It's ridiculous to say the least.



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9179 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3051 times:



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 20):
I see your point, but let's not forget this poor kid has been black listed since he was two!?! How much damage can a two year old deliberatley make? It's ridiculous to say the least.

The only person, er character, I can think of 2 years old or younger who would be capable of such a thing would be Stewie Griffin -- but he's fictional and animated at that!!  Wink

The TSA -- striving to reach new depths...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2964 times:



Quoting FCA767 (Reply 6):
I remember reading that you have to fill in a new form now...instead of a visa waiver...or something...maybe it's easy to do but the security aspect now...although if I was going for a road trip and not just a 1 day stay then I might do it...
And Besides everyone notices the guys who are trying to light things aren't they

It seems you have heard a fairy tale. I am now in LA for five days (NAMM show). As a Swiss citizen I don't need a visa. I had to fill in a form in the Internet and then the old green form in the aircraft. The immigration at LAX in the terminal where SWISS arrives was a breeze. I stood in line only five minutes, then met a friendly (!) immigration officer. 10 minutes later I had my suitcase and was out of the airport immediately.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

His mom posted on Blogdad Bob's blog. The note was rather angry and brought to light the way the TSA has tried to gloss over this. No response from TSA yet.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2947 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
brought to light the way the TSA has tried to gloss over this. No response from TSA yet.

Hardly surprising - that seems to be their style, rude, arrogant, aggressive and untruthful. LIke the item on their website about the 8 year old on the no-fly list. It disappeared very quickly when they were caught out.

The fact that the kid is still on that list (at last knowledge) after so many years is a crime.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 22):
the old green form in the aircraft.

A more hilariously old-fashioned form I've never seen. The bit about "moral turpitude" made me roll my eyes. Such an antique term that even some of my long term public service colleagues who are policy planning long-termers had to think for a while to remember what it was about.

The form even looks like it was printed 100 years ago.


25 Maverick623 : Tip of the iceburg. I've beaten around the bush with this, but suffice it to say that not only are many of the TSA's rules illegal (not to mention ju
26 N1120A : Its a term of art. Can mean things like theft.
27 EZEIZA : and ironically enough, the uderwear bomber, who was alerted to the authorities of his radical views by his own father, was not on the list.
28 ZANL188 : The kid was never on the no-fly list. He was on another list that gets additional screening. So when TSA said he wasn't on the no-fly list they were
29 IAirAllie : Nonsense. The Israelis were never rude always efficient, thorough and professional. It was no big deal. Actually one of my more pleasant travel exper
30 Maverick623 : Maybe you should've read what they actually said: Take a look in the mirror.
31 Cytz_pilot : Yes, but...the reason a person gets placed on the terror watch list is because they are suspected of committing terrorist acts. if the suspicion that
32 ZANL188 : The person i was responding to said very plainly: The kid was never on the no fly list. Sort of invalidates the whole thread doesn't it.....
33 STT757 : The eight year old is not on the no-fly list, someone with the same name is on the no-fly list. That name is either a real name or an alias someone or
34 ZANL188 : No, the person with the same name as the kid is on one of the watch lists - not the no-fly list.
35 ZRH : Hahaha, you are absolutely right. But I even don't read this archaic form anymore. Only put a checkmark everywhere at "no".
36 TheCommodore : You may think its nonsense, and as you say you found the experience pleasant, which I find strange, as who on earth likes going through security chec
37 Cpd : But the effect of being on the watch list is the same - and this is merely fiddling while Rome burns.
38 ZANL188 : Actually the effect is rather different... if you're on the no-fly list you don't fly... The watch list just gets extra screening... granted the kid
39 IAirAllie : I think it is nonsense to make such comments when you've had no personal experience with the Israeli system. By saying "one of my more pleasant" it p
40 TheCommodore : As I said IAirAirie, "I have heard", I never said I had ANY personal experience with the security in Israel. (Read above) So EVERY security agent is
41 Springbok747 : We don't live in an ideal world. Security checks are a part of life, and like it or not, they are there for a reason. I have no problems going throug
42 TheCommodore : I have no problem going through security checks and I know we don't live in a perfect world. Why do Israelis seem to be rude, either they are or not
43 Springbok747 : Well..from my experience, they are not rude. Coming from Australia where we're used to people, including immigration officers saying 'please' and 'th
44 EZEIZA : No-fly or extra screening list it's still ridiculous. First because he is 8, second because he has been on the list since he was 2, and third because
45 Post contains links IAirAllie : They ask questions that some see as prying but it is a part of their job some people perceive this to be rude and get touchy. You don't and the Israe
46 Maverick623 : So we should be patting down 2 year olds because of it? I was responding to your claim that the TSA was correct in what they said, in which you misqu
47 IAirAllie : Hmm should we relax screening requirements for children? What age should be the cut off? In Iraq a handicapped child was used in a bombing (I'd say s
48 Maverick623 : No, you're absolutely right. There are situations that a child should be patted down... however, that child's name being on a watch list is not a goo
49 EZEIZA : Next time they get suspicous 2 year old they will ask him random questions to see if he gets nervous and admits to carrying diapers on board, which c
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