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John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.  
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

This video, caught on C-SPAN, was taken during an oral "Yay/Nay" vote in the House. It's sickening and demonstrates the blatant corruption of Congressman John Murtha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywgUCdefSW8

Thoughts?

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

This is all you need to know about John Murtha to realize his character:

http://www.flyjohnstownairport.com/



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2214 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Thread starter):
This video, caught on C-SPAN, was taken during an oral "Yay/Nay" vote in the House. It's sickening and demonstrates the blatant corruption of Congressman John Murtha.

It's so blatant that I would think that it would be grounds for impeachment, shouldn't it?

The amazing thing is that this is 3 years old. How did Pennsylvanians re-elect this guy? Has he bought off that many people?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Don't worry people, tomorrow begins the revolution. Murtha's time will come and he will be shown the door.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21876 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Why the hell do we bother with voice votes? Way too much chance for manipulation (like the shouting in the video). Just have them raise their hands and be done with it.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2175 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Thread starter):
This video, caught on C-SPAN, was taken during an oral "Yay/Nay" vote in the House. It's sickening and demonstrates the blatant corruption of Congressman John Murtha.

First of all, I agree it is disgusting and think Murtha is an embarrassment to Democrats, Congress, and Pennsylvania. I want him out of Congress and, if anybody can make charges sick against him, thrown in jail for being a corrupt S.O.B. But that is just my opinion.

Second, I wish this practice was kept to only Murtha. I don't have the video handy, but C-Span has caught dozens of representatives, from both sides of the aisle, participating in this condemnable practice. Saying that Murtha is the only person who does this is like saying only Tom Delay took kickbacks from Jack Abramoff. But, this practice needs to stop and it needs to stop yesterday.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21876 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2164 times:



Quoting Texan (Reply 5):
Second, I wish this practice was kept to only Murtha. I don't have the video handy, but C-Span has caught dozens of representatives, from both sides of the aisle, participating in this condemnable practice

Hell, Sensenbrenner himself decided to shut the Democrats out of a hearing when he was a chair.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2129 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Just have them raise their hands and be done with it.

In this day and age, they should be able to just push a button and the vote should be recorded digitally for posterity.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2084 times:



Quoting MattRB (Reply 7):
In this day and age, they should be able to just push a button and the vote should be recorded digitally for posterity.

They do have that. The problem is that C-Span has also caught representatives pressing the buttons of fellow representatives during those votes. Again, both sides of the aisle were caught in the act. Lots of crap going on there.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2046 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Why the hell do we bother with voice votes? Way too much chance for manipulation (like the shouting in the video). Just have them raise their hands and be done with it.

Even if you'd go for the electronic vote or electronic balloting, a parliamentary vote can still be manipulated either way. Judging from that video, Mr Murtha would have still twisted a vote cast by handraising into the result of his liking.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2031 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
This is all you need to know about John Murtha to realize his character:

http://www.flyjohnstownairport.com/

The 2005 BRAC directed the Marine Corps Reserve Light helicopter squadron based at Johnstown be re-located to McGuire AFB NJ, the move will take place this fall and their new hangars at McGuire (Fort Dix) is almost complete. This move is taking Marine Corps assets (Murtha is a former Marine) out of his district and into a Republican District.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1962 times:



Quoting Texan (Reply 8):

Isn't there any sort of protocol established to prevent inappropriate comments and behavior? A lot of that stuff wouldn't fly in most Commonwealth legislatures.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1914 times:



Quoting TheCol (Reply 11):
Isn't there any sort of protocol established to prevent inappropriate comments and behavior? A lot of that stuff wouldn't fly in most Commonwealth legislatures.

I'm sure there is . . . I'll take a look and try to find some specific language in the House rules later today.

Although I should also point out that, in the events I'm referencing at least, the inappropriate behavior was thankfully just on procedural votes and not on legislation. The conduct is still wrong, but it does lessen the impact somewhat.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8297 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1898 times:

If Murtha possessed an iota of integrity and/or common decency, he'd resign. The fact that he hasn't in three years says everything. This man's political career has the overall value of a spoonful of pond scum.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11806 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Interesting....

When the exact same thing happened a few years ago when a Republican did it, not a PEEP out of the right. When "you lie" was shouted at the President by a Republican, he was expressing his right to free speech. Yet, when ANY Democrat does anything even REMOETLY similar, they are evil and need to be replaced by a Republican. Are you freakin' kidding me?

But, I expect no less from the party of "party before country." As long as the right does it, it is acceptable, but when anyone else even thinks about it, how dare they! Flaming against me starting in 3.. 2.. 1..



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1868 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
When the exact same thing happened a few years ago when a Republican did it, not a PEEP out of the right.

Do you have video of that? I'd be interested.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
When "you lie" was shouted at the President by a Republican, he was expressing his right to free speech.

And he was right as well. At the time, the bill contained all the elements the President claimed were not in it. I don't know about you, but when someone lies to my face, I tend to react.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineATTart From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1861 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):

You have trash coming from both sides. It is like grade school kids in the school yard calling each other poopy pants, no your poopy pants. I am going to tell my mommy on you..(Their Party Members/ The Public). I gotcha you, no I got you!!!!!



Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8297 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1852 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):

And he was right as well. At the time, the bill contained all the elements the President claimed were not in it. I don't know about you, but when someone lies to my face, I tend to react.

Perhaps so but he wasn't right to shout it out...the fact that you support that kind of behavior unfortunately says a lot. It was a State of the Union address, not a 4th grade playground with yard duty approaching.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
But, I expect no less from the party of "party before country."

Since when did that become their moniker?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
Yet, when ANY Democrat does anything even REMOETLY similar, they are evil and need to be replaced by a Republican. Are you freakin' kidding me?

Murtha didn't do anything similar to anyone other than transcending the usual level of BS and incompetence in the building. He was just plainly being an idiot for all to see. Why do you feel the need to defend him? You're happy with the current state of political discourse? He's part of the problem with garbage like this.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1840 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 17):
Perhaps so but he wasn't right to shout it out...the fact that you support that kind of behavior unfortunately says a lot. It was a State of the Union address, not a 4th grade playground with yard duty approaching.

It was not a State of the Union address - he came that day to do a sales call to Congress for health care. And if a salesman lies to me, I will call him a liar.

What's this crap about treating the President like he's the Queen? I like the way they do it in the British parliament - plenty of shouting, and the opportunity of the Members to ask direct questions of the head of government, which we don't allow.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineATTart From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1832 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
And if a salesman lies to me, I will call him a liar.

Well, I don't see him as a liar..



Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1828 times:



Quoting ATTart (Reply 19):
Well, I don't see him as a liar..

I find myself wondering how much stuff you've bought from Billy Mays...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineATTart From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):

I find myself wondering how much stuff you've bought from Billy Mays...

So because I don't agree with you, you question my ability of making of my own mind? That I buy trash from any salesman? Good one, you just might bring me over to your side! It's a good tactic..

I did however have to Google who Billy Mays was.. The name did sound familiar, but I did not know who he was. Assumption, is never good.

[Edited 2010-01-19 09:52:45]


Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1812 times:



Quoting ATTart (Reply 21):
So because I don't agree with you, you question my ability of making of my own mind? That I buy trash from any salesman? Good one, you just might bring me over to your side! It's a good tactic..

Not because you disagree with me, but simply that Obama made certain claims at the time about no money going to abortions or illegal immigrants and so forth, and where it became clear afterward as details came out that those things were indeed in the bill at the time he made the speech. He lied.

My only question to you is what do you do when somebody tells you something that is not true?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineATTart From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):


Not because you disagree with me, but simply that Obama made certain claims at the time about no money going to abortions or illegal immigrants and so forth, and where it became clear afterward as details came out that those things were indeed in the bill at the time he made the speech. He lied.

My only question to you is what do you do when somebody tells you something that is not true?

Well lies come from both sides. There is more in the bill I agree with than I disagree with. Can you tell me that the far right does not lie about what is in the bill or not? Like I said it comes from both sides. But I will not throw the baby out with the bath water.

To answer that question: I take the person to the side and ask questions and ask them to back it up. I don't feel the need to make a public spectacle about something. But respect needs to come from both sides.

[Edited 2010-01-19 10:07:59]


Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
User currently offlineATTart From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1799 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):

Not because you disagree with me, but simply that Obama made certain claims at the time about no money going to abortions or illegal immigrants and so forth, and where it became clear afterward as details came out that those things were indeed in the bill at the time he made the speech. He lied.

Also did you call out Sarah Palin on the death panel? See lies come from both sides. Yes you did insult me regarding the Billy Mays post. You implied that I am a sucker.



Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
25 FlyDeltaJets87 : A) How was "YOU LIE!" even remotely similar to John Murtha manipulating the vote to his liking? Please entertain us with your thought process there.
26 Aaron747 : This is par for the course lately. Indeed they do. I tell them it's wrong, and why, but without shouting or antics - since those both raise blood pre
27 Dreadnought : Nobody knows manners and decorum like the British. They pretty much invented them. And if the Brits decided that MPs needed to have the ability to sp
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