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13yo Saudi Girl Sentenced To 90 Lashes  
User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6011 times:

A 13y/o Saudi girl has been sentenced to 90 lashes for having a cell phone in school. You know maybe we might deter some things in the US if we adapted some of the harsh practices of Saudi Arabia but I think this is over the top...WAY over..


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...shes-took-mobile-phone-school.html


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2950 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

Absolutely appalling, I just wonder how such a thing is going to be defended on this forum.


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5977 times:

Because the ban on cell phones is there to protect the girl from putting herself in a precarious position whereby she can send and receive pictures of herself - GASP! - unveiled or worse and pictures of a boy. She is also able to communicate with - GASP! - members of the opposite sex unchaperoned and we just can't have that happening.

I say that jokingly but sadly enough that's the rationale over there!


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10862 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5963 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 1):
Absolutely appalling, I just wonder how such a thing is going to be defended on this forum.

Not here to defend anything. Saudi Arabia is an ultra-conservative country.

When I was that age we were not allowed to wear pants in my school. We had to wear skirts or dresses. We had no uniforms but we had to wear overalls with our name and section embroidered on it. Make up was also banned. This was not a private school but s state school. They were all girls and all boys schools at the time. There was no mixing. France in the 60s was very much old fashioned conservative. I was raised in Paris. Provincial cities were even more conservative.

I remember there was punishment in elementary school. Standing in a corner with our hands on top of our head was the most common 15 minutes to 1/2 hour. Another punishment was that we had to copy a sentence chosen by the teacher from 100 to 1000 times for the next day depending on what we had done wrong. I have also seen teachers giving corporal punishment such as caning. This was in the mid-50s. I can still remember it well.

Now the times have changed. It is not rare that the students are beating up the teachers in French secondary schools.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13940 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5946 times:

I´m quite sure that our resident Saudi Arabic friend SOBH15, who AFAIK has a daughter in the same age range, will be appalled at this news. I´m also quite sure that this sentence will be cashiered by a higher court.

Jan


User currently offlineRonglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5943 times:

The article in the Daily Mail link is very poorly written. There seems to have been an assault on the school principal. Was the girl involved in that?

What does 90 "lashes" actually entail? Does it really mean being hit with a 2-metre long stick as shown in the Daily Mail photo attached to the article, or is it something shorter and softer for school kids?

I'm not a big fan of the Saudi system of crime-and-punishment, but it wouldn't kill the Daily Mail to provide a little more detail on this story.

Back in my elementry school days (1955-1961), if I'd assaulted the principal, I'd probably get "the strap", maybe a dozen "lashes" or more on each hand.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12395 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5909 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
Saudi Arabia is an ultra-conservative country

There are many conservative societies, but there has to be a dividing line between ultra conservative and downright barbaric.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
remember there was punishment in elementary school. Standing in a corner with our hands on top of our head was the most common 15 minutes to 1/2 hour. Another punishment was that we had to copy a sentence chosen by the teacher from 100 to 1000 times for the next day depending on what we had done wrong. I have also seen teachers giving corporal punishment such as caning. This was in the mid-50s. I can still remember it well.

Most countries had corporal punishment; we had it in Ireland until about '82. I remember getting what we used to call the "biff" when I was about 7 or 8. My mother certainly remembers it; it was the way things were done - and we certainly got lines; schools must have discipline, BUT of course, there has to be a line when punishment becomes unreasonable and this is clearly over the top.


User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3599 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5881 times:

I bet she'll never do it again, though.

User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

There's got to be some kind of teanant of international law that frowns upon this barbaric process.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
Saudi Arabia is an ultra-conservative country.

There is a big difference between conservatism and an absolute monarchy.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 7):

Yeah, we're all laughing.  Yeah sure



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3408 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5657 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
I´m quite sure that our resident Saudi Arabic friend SOBH15, who AFAIK has a daughter in the same age range, will be appalled at this news. I´m also quite sure that this sentence will be cashiered by a higher court.

Appalled? I am ashamed, I know schools have rules, my daughter is in a foreigner school and she is not allowed to have an open phone in school, if one is found in her possession she will be punished, same thing applied to my sons when they were in school in VA USA. Now if she assaulted the school principal and she did have a phone with her then her punishment is going to double. But 90 lashes is NOT acceptable. I am sure that the new minister of Justice will over rule this idiotic sentence. I really hope so.

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 5):
The article in the Daily Mail link

I usually don't take this newspaper very seriously.

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 5):
Does it really mean being hit with a 2-metre long stick as shown in the Daily Mail photo attached to the article, or is it something shorter and softer for school kids?

They use a stick and they put something under there armpit, when they strike they can not lift there arm high so that thing does not fall. They do not lash all 90 lashes the same day but over few days if not weeks.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
downright barbaric

I hear you.

[quote=Slider,reply=8]Don't use the word conservative...A better term would be “knuckle-dragging Neanderthal barbaric human rights subjugating culture immersed in a twisted ideology”, would be more appropriate

Do you have a Dictionery for insults? Where do you get all of those from?{cheeky

[Edited 2010-01-20 14:33:36]   

[Edited 2010-01-20 14:35:01]  cheeky 

[Edited 2010-01-20 14:38:06]


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5633 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 11):
Do you have a Dictionery for insults? Where do you get all of those from?

The post was not an insult, it was the truth and nothing but the truth!

Patrick


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5618 times:



Quoting Stratosphere (Thread starter):
A 13y/o Saudi girl has been sentenced to 90 lashes for having a cell phone in school. You know maybe we might deter some things in the US if we adapted some of the harsh practices of Saudi Arabia but I think this is over the top...WAY over..

And yet the USA fully supports and endorses the Saudi government time after time. The 9/11 bombers were Saudi too. But they got a free pass and Iraq got invaded.

It's barbaric in the extreme! And it just shows you one example of why the US (and other western democracies) who give tacit approval to Saudi's "King" to step on the throats of humans/citizens of Saudi Arabia by fully backing, financing, and arming the dictator posing as monarch King Abdullah with tens of billions of dollars worth of flying death machines.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15695 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5602 times:



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 13):
And yet the USA fully supports and endorses the Saudi government time after time.

Sometimes you must befriend bad people to fight worse people.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 13):
But they got a free pass and Iraq got invaded.

And they don't lash teenage girls in Iraq. The invasion of Iraq largely had an idealist foundation rather than a realist one. It is a fine line between respecting sovereignty and standing idly while human rights abuses take place.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5541 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Sometimes you must befriend bad people to fight worse people.

Huh? It has nothing to do with "enemy" or "friend". It's called oil. The Afghan Taliban were "our friends" (USA) when they were "freedom fighters" against the "evil" Soviets. Saddam was a "friend" of the USA's CIA who installed him into power and the US sold arms and chemical weapons to him because he was "a friend" vs. the "enemy" Iran, who the US did business too during the Iran-Contra era to sell arms to Iran against our "friend" Iraq, in exchange for getting more weapons to the "freedom fighters" in Nicaragua because the new government there was our "enemy" and needed to be overthrown because they were socialist *gasp*, even though democratically elected in 1984 because the US supported and endorsed the "King" who's family were dictators over Nicaragua for the previous 50 years and toadies of the US government. That evil socialist Daniel Ortega was again democratically elected in 2006 and is Nicaragua's sitting president now, which was much chagrin to the Bushies.

See a pattern here yet? So tell me again about backing "good" against "evil".

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
And they don't lash teenage girls in Iraq.

Is that a statement or a question?


User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Saudi Arabia is a great country and a big time ally to the US and the Bush family......
Is it over the top? Of course...who am I to judge...but I have the utmost respect for the Saudis



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

Of course sooner or later people come alone with the relativist line that whatever people want to do within their own national borders to their own people is justified.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5495 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
Of course sooner or later people come alone with the relativist line that whatever people want to do within their own national borders to their own people is justified.

I'd call those people apologists, not relativists, but you expressed my thoughts exactly.  checkmark 

Personally, I'm ashamed and appaled by this. Where is the legal justification for this barbaric action? Punishment to impose discipline in a school is all fine by me, but the moment this punishment becomes physical is simply crossing a line nobody should EVER cross. If this happened to my kids, I would have pressed charges against the man for child abuse and grievous bodily harm (this for me goes beyond "simple" battery for me).


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19275 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5434 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):

Sometimes you must befriend bad people to fight worse people.

Um... or to get oil?


User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13940 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5417 times:

Just to put it in perspective:

A similar offense (bringing an illegal mobile phone into school) over here would lead to the teacher confiscating the offending mobile and to hand it over to the parents.

Jan


User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5405 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
Of course sooner or later people come alone with the relativist line that whatever people want to do within their own national borders to their own people is justified.

Who are we to judge right? Because we are different and we assume the title as the default culture....posts above me are calling it a “knuckle-dragging Neanderthal barbaric human rights subjugating culture immersed in a twisted ideology”,



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5367 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
A similar offense (bringing an illegal mobile phone into school) over here would lead to the teacher confiscating the offending mobile and to hand it over to the parents.

Same here in the US and you'd be surprised how the kids and parents react.


User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1969 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5337 times:



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 13):
And yet the USA fully supports and endorses the Saudi government time after time. The 9/11 bombers were Saudi too. But they got a free pass and Iraq got invaded.

It's barbaric in the extreme! And it just shows you one example of why the US (and other western democracies) who give tacit approval to Saudi's "King" to step on the throats of humans/citizens of Saudi Arabia by fully backing, financing, and arming the dictator posing as monarch King Abdullah with tens of billions of dollars worth of flying death machines.

Oh dear MoltenRock... The angst..... We have caning in Singapore too..... and we're arguably a dictatorship (except unlike most dictatorship our dictator looks after us HAHA). However we don't produce terrorists who blow themselves up in other countries, thankfully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore

Offences punishable by caning
Singaporean law allows caning to be ordered for over 30 offences, including robbery, gang robbery with murder, drug use, vandalism, and rioting.[3] Caning is also a mandatory punishment for certain offences such as rape, drug trafficking and for visiting foreigners who overstay their visa by more than 90 days.[4]


User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5328 times:



Quoting Docpepz (Reply 25):
Caning is also a mandatory punishment for certain offences such as rape, drug trafficking and for visiting foreigners who overstay their visa by more than 90 days.[4]

I can certainly see that a visa over stay should warrent the same punishment as a rapist..  sarcastic 



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5289 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Sometimes you must befriend bad people to fight worse people.

Yeah, that's what got us into this war in the first place. I rather not see that mistake repeated.

Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 17):

Give us one reason why that regime should be respected.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):

And then another Rwanda will happen, or worse.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

I'm going to sound like an asshole in that I'm going to ask "What are you going to do about it?" Yes, I completely agree that this should not be tolerated and that Saudi should not have such laws, but I think it's a fair question. Besides championing human rights on an internet forum and then forgetting about this story 3 or 4 days later, how are YOU planning to change the laws or the minds of the people in such countries? And just how far are you willing to go? Do you support international action against countries that engage in such practices (abuses)? Embargoes? Sanctions? Military Action? Do you vote with your wallet and boycott companies that headquarter or conduct business with such countries like Saudi Arabia? (Don't fill up your fuel tank at Shell or Mobil). My point (and again I know I'm sounding like the asshole here, but I think it needs to be said and asked) is I find it amazing how many people so easily say "This is terrible. This is unjustified. Something has to be done!" but will then turn the blind eye or simply forget if the action is required be from them.

This will probably go unheeded but actually consider what I'm asking and saying before coming back with any knee-jerk reactions.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 13):

I was surprised it took 13 posts before a thread about Saudi Arabia turned into a US blaming & bashing thread. But hey, thanks to the post from Docpepz, seems the country of the flag you choose to fly on here isn't much better, huh?


25 Babybus : If she is a Saudi citizen it is highly unlikely she will be punished. Normally there is some last minute pardon and the dad has to go begging to someo
26 TheCommodore : Unfortunately there are numerous violations of peoples rights/well being that occur in various countries all over the place every day that I think are
27 MoltenRock : Perhaps you should take your own advice. While I am a guest of the government of Singapore on behalf of my company and therefore not a citizen of Sin
28 Directorguy : 90 lashes for something that trivial is ridiculous. This girl should be suspended or expelled, not get the same punishment as an adultress or thief wo
29 Mudboy : Excellent post! I agree, you make a very valid point. I constantly hear people make statements about, why do we(many Governments, not just the US) su
30 Cpd : Well, I agree with mobile phone bans in schools. But not the harsh punishment. Back in my day mobile phones were fairly new - and if you had one, you
31 ThegreatRDU : Internationally and diplomatically, they already are...who cares if you don't.....[Edited 2010-01-21 05:45:41 by thegreatRDU]
32 Captaink : Maybe the number of lashes is what determines the severity of the punishment. In any event, while I don't agree with this form of punishment, the cou
33 KiwiRob : We also had corporal punishment in New Zealand up until 1990 I think, the last time I was cained in school was when I was 16 in 1999, when corporal p
34 SOBHI51 : Lets not forget that she also assaulted the school principal. It's not an excuse but lets put things in prospective. Trust me it will not happen. For
35 FlyDeltaJets87 : So let me get this straight, because people in the US conduct business with Saudi Arabia, we endorse this type of barbaric punishment again and again
36 MoltenRock : The average caning, if sentenced, is between 3 and 6 lashes. Only males from 16 years of age to 50 years of age are caned, except in a very small hand
37 Post contains images MD11Engineer : It has to be made clear that there exists a massive difference in quality between a Singaporean (Malaysiand and Brunaian) caning and the type of whip
38 Mudboy : Just curious, with all the harsh punishment in Saudi, what is the crime rate like over there? I would think it is pretty low, but have no idea, which
39 BMI727 : Sometimes you must befriend bad people to get oil as well. All in a day's work. Flame me if you want, but I think that helping keep the Soviets out o
40 SOBHI51 : It is very low indeed. Without being prejudice 80% of crimes are committed by foreigners, murder cases are very low. Now if they get there driving ac
41 Kappel : They also have nothing to do with each other. A monarchy can be very progressive. Saudi Arabia's is very oppressive. There should be, but the west (n
42 SOBHI51 : And from where you get this information, i am not saying everything is dandy here but Saudis are much better off than a lot of other countries i know
43 Ojas : Are you kidding?????? A whole movie can be made on how Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are treated in Saudi. Not that other gulf countries are t
44 Kappel : Not to mention the Indonesian, Phillipina, etc, housemaids.
45 SOBHI51 : No i am not. If that is so why they keep coming? By law here, employer should provide housing, medical, transportation etc... Tell me any other count
46 Ojas : ==>>> Read this. As I say it again, just for money nothing else. Most of these people come to Saudi out of compulsion not out of choice. Yes and what
47 SOBHI51 : As long as our discussion is civilized i never take the postings as a personal attack, i read a lot of your postings and i have a lot of respect to y
48 Ojas : Well does the media have unrestricted access in Saudi? The very fact that such things are reported in Qatar, UAE, Oman etc shows there are forums ava
49 SOBHI51 : If there is anything wrong in KSA, AlJazzeera will make sure they show it. No love lost here. I have been saying that in my postings but that need ti
50 Post contains links Slider : You know, this spin on trying to defend Saudi Arabia is really lacking in substance. http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...audi_arabia_spoilt_child_
51 Post contains links Springbok747 : With all due respect SOBH51...nonsense. Foreign workers are treated like garbage in most of the ME countries. Most of these people are uneducated lab
52 SOBHI51 : Ok if you are ready for a civilized discussion then i will start one. The American Thinker is an anti Arab flier i will ask you if you ever found any
53 Concordeloss : SOBHI51, If you don't mind me asking, where have you lived before, and are you a Saudi Citizen?
54 SOBHI51 : I lived in the UK and then in the USA. Yes i am a Saudi Citizen.
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