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Driver Fined For Blowing His Nose  
User currently offlineFCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1724 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2298 times:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100128/...fined-for-blowing-his-45dbed5.html

Michael Mancini had stopped his van in traffic and wiped his nose with a handkerchief.

When he moved off, he was pulled over by police who told him he had not been in control of his vehicle.

Mr Mancini, from Ayrshire, was handed a £60 fixed penalty and given three points on his driving licence.

He told Sky News: "I thought they were joking and that it was a wind-up.

[Edited 2010-01-28 16:08:54 by srbmod]

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Don't you just love the law in UK?

How anyone can imagine that under these circumstances the driver was "out of control of his vehicle" for blowing his nose is beyond me.

Had he been doing 70mph on the motorway in the outside lane and maybe wobbling a bit, then I can just see that he could have been stopped for an explaination. But, in traffic, stationary, with the handbrake on - ridiculous.

It opens the way for anyone sneezing, sniffing or even blinking to be "out of control"

Personally I think those Policemen should be disciplined for wasting the prosecutors time.

Andy



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2165 times:



Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 1):

Total agreement. This is ridiculous.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

The guy should be commended for bothering to stop to blow his nose somewhere, instead of doing it while he's driving. He should NOT be punished for it.

User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
The guy should be commended for bothering to stop to blow his nose somewhere, instead of doing it while he's driving. He should NOT be punished for it.

This is what happens when you sneeze at high speed...



[Edited 2010-01-28 13:49:51]


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8741 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2010 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
his is what happens when you sneeze at high speed...

c'mon can't you see that this is what happens when you fart?

 



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineOffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Good for him taking it to court. It would be easy to pay the £60 and take the 3 points. Instead he has to miss a day of work, pay a solicitor. I can't imagine how many people out there probably just pay fines as the easy option.


To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9483 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

I saw him on BBC Breakfast this morning. If there was more to it, the police don't seem to want to tell him what it was.

I hope this was an isolated incident due to an overzealous cop rather than a growing trend. The police surely have to use some common sense. Unfortunately it happened in Ayr, which I visit quite often.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12325 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1898 times:



Quoting Offloaded (Reply 6):
Good for him taking it to court. It would be easy to pay the £60 and take the 3 points. Instead he has to miss a day of work, pay a solicitor. I can't imagine how many people out there probably just pay fines as the easy option.

Absolutely; something as ridiculous as this needs to be taken up. This PC is apparently nick-named "shiny buttons" because of his over-zealous approach to law and order. However, an over-zealous approach clearly has limitations; he was not using common sense; the individual was not driving; he was stopped and his handbrake was on. The PC was NOT just doing his job; he was not using common sense. I sincerely hope that when this case comes to Court and is dismissed, that the judge tears strips off him.

It reminds me of a sketch from the famous comedy series "Not the Nine o'clock News" where a PC (played by Griff Rhys Jones) comes up with all kinds of nonsensical prosecutions ("wearing a loud shirt in a built up area", "walking around with an offensive wife" etc etc.)

Seriously though, I can only imagine that this guys superiors must be mortified. Personally, I hope he is given some "time off" to reflect on his career plans.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9483 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1855 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 8):
It reminds me of a sketch from the famous comedy series "Not the Nine o'clock News"

It reminds me of the very real case where another of Strathclyde Police's "finest" charged four players for an unremarkable "squaring up" during a Rangers v Celtic match in the 1980s (the one who started the whole thing off was acquitted while two of the others have criminal records as a result  sarcastic  ). Thousands of similar incidents before and afterwards, and many more severe, seem to have gone completely unnoticed by the police in attendance. What a farce.


User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1707 times:

While I agree that this is insane and that there are quite a few police officers out there who are more than jobsworths (though there are far many normal officers) I think that there could be more to this story.

Until everything has been looked at (specifically any CCTV which since there are cameras everywhere one could have caught the incident on camera) this could be a case of the driver doing something wrong and trying to "get off" or get a story from it. Of course it could also be a case of some extremely over zealous police officer.

Either way there have been many silly prosecutions and fines issued in this nation over the past few years, for example

* Man met postman on way out of his house, he got the mail off him and continued walking to the bus stop, he noticed he had some junk mail and placed it in the bin at the bus stop. Several weeks later he has a court summons for disposing of household refuse in a public bin.

* Young boy put a crisp packet in an overfilled bin, the crisp packet fell away from the bin unbeknown to the boy. Police officer walking behind him saw this and issued a fixed penalty notice for littering.

* People finding themselves on the sex offenders register for peeing in public (down alleyways and in bushes).

One thing that does concern me if in fact the driver was simply blowing his nose as the story says is that due to a new piece of legislate which was recently passed is that court costs will not be paid by the government if someone is acquitted. So he could pay thousands in court fees just to clear his name.

The government recently said that the new piece of legislate should not really have an effect on cases like this but is designed to stop people being excessive and hiring the most expensive senior partner in a law firm for a tiny case. unfortunatly we know how the system works and these people will still continue to be able to do this and the innocent ones will suffer. (using the term innocent to define people who use cheap lawyers etc...)

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1634 times:



Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):

One thing that does concern me if in fact the driver was simply blowing his nose as the story says is that due to a new piece of legislate which was recently passed is that court costs will not be paid by the government if someone is acquitted. So he could pay thousands in court fees just to clear his name.

So you don't have a right to an attorney in prosecutions anymore? That sounds like a reason to have an armed revolution.


User currently offlineFCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1611 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):

So you don't have a right to an attorney in prosecutions anymore? That sounds like a reason to have an armed revolution.

Every time I come accross UK Issues in the news, I always think "Why don't we all just leave this island and see how the government like that...it would soon get them thinking twice about how they are running the country...
Like If you do a search on youtube on mark thomas uk homeoffice, you will see that they have buildings that are taxed abroad to avoid taxes, so even they are getting up to no good, yet they try to come down hard on the public having tax havens abroad...


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1547 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):

So you don't have a right to an attorney in prosecutions anymore?

They do. That said, I am sure there is more to it than that. I do know that younger criminal barristers make a pittance, so perhaps the government is only making those guys available.

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):
Several weeks later he has a court summons for disposing of household refuse in a public bin.



Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):

* Young boy put a crisp packet in an overfilled bin, the crisp packet fell away from the bin unbeknown to the boy. Police officer walking behind him saw this and issued a fixed penalty notice for littering.



Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):

* People finding themselves on the sex offenders register for peeing in public (down alleyways and in bushes).

All absolute jokes.

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):

One thing that does concern me if in fact the driver was simply blowing his nose as the story says is that due to a new piece of legislate which was recently passed is that court costs will not be paid by the government if someone is acquitted. So he could pay thousands in court fees just to clear his name.

Which is also asinine. I am guessing that the government will still pay for counsel, but decided not to pay costs. In this case, costs wouldn't be high. I can see this being nuts if a Defendant needs to refute some sort of DNA evidence or the like.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBjcc From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 323 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1480 times:

Would it not be better to wait till the full evidence is know, before jumping to concultions?

A couple of points that should be borne in mind though. If you are in the roadway, and your engine is running, then you are considered to be driving. It's the way its been for years. Thats why you can be prosecuted for using your mobile in a traffic jam.

Is that outragous? On the face of it, perhaps to some. On the other hand, having dealt with an accident, pre the legisation specifically forbidding use of mobiles when driving, no, it's not, the traffic jam moved, driver moved with it, and because he didn't have his hands on the wheel swerved and hit a pedestrian.

Did that apply in this case? Did his vehicle move while he was 'blowing his nose'? I don't know, nor does anyone who's expressed outrage on here. Remember you only have one side of the story, not both, and it may suprise you, that defendents often don't tell the truth!

As for the Police not telling him what he did? Oh yes they have, it's on the FPN, and if he elects to go for trial, he will get a full statement, so selective reporting me thinks by either the Beeb, or him.

Lastly turning to representation in court. Costs for solicitors in traffic cases are almost never from the public purse. Court costs are sometimes awarded, but mostly they are not. Does that mean it he wont get a fair hearing? No, not at all, most people I've seen convicted were presesented by a solicitor, most that were aquitted represented themselves.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1449 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):

They do. That said, I am sure there is more to it than that. I do know that younger criminal barristers make a pittance, so perhaps the government is only making those guys available.

But if the government is saying that they won't cover court costs, then that's denying the right to legal representation. In other words, you should not have to pay court costs if you are innocent of any crime.


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1429 times:

Bjcc, you are probably right in your assumption that not all the evidence is presented by the BBC etc, and that there may be more to this. However, on the face of it it does seem excessive and harsh, considering the things people do while driving. You mentioned mobile phones, which I think are one of the worst things to come into a drivers hand since the scourge of CB radio.

However, on the face of what we have been told, a simple action like blowing your nose is not enough to warrant a fine and the consequent furore. It begs the question of whether the Police would prosecute if you sneezed - a purely natural occurence and one that very rarely can be stopped. Or maybe any other innocent and normal act, even simply removing one hand from the wheel to turn your heating on.

Many people drive like complete lunatics, as evinced by another thread on this forum, but simple, natural acts being prosecuted lead me to worry about what exactly the agenda is with the Police. It does appear, given the apparent evidence in this case, simply an excuse to raise revenue and prosecution rates.

I have every respect for a beleagured Police force that is very often undermanned and hamstrung by red tape, but this sort of thing makes me wonder if that respect is misplaced sometimes.

Andy



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineBjcc From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 323 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

But thats my point, 'on what we have been told'. The press is littered with half stories. Why? Because it's not news if the whole story is told.
As for prosecution for a 'natural act', lets see first if that is the whole story before casting stones, or imagining what might happen. Police have been about since 1829, and mass car ownership since the 1950's. If the horror story prediction was going to happen it would have done so long before now.


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