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China Rebukes US Over $6.4B Arms Sale To Taiwan  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Oh boy, time to play the rhetoric game again. New administration, same old shtick. Let me guess, this is more economic stimulus from Obama on behalf of a congressperson or two from wherever Patriot missiles are manufactured?  

The White House Friday notified Congress of its intent to sell a $6.4 billion weapons package to Taiwan, including Patriot missiles, mine-hunting ships, and Black Hawk helicopters. The sale did not include new fighter planes, which the island nation has requested, though it did include communications equipment for its current fleet.

A senior U.S. administration official on a call with reporters said that the sale “contributes to stability in the region.” ...

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei deemed the sale "crude interference in China's domestic affairs” and said it would have “a seriously negative impact on many important areas of exchanges and cooperation"


http://www.politico.com/politico44/p...b-55b6-4c29-993f-1577378b021b.html

China is already claiming that they will immediately suspend all joint military exercises and exchanges with the US. Nice one!


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3730 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
China is already claiming that they will immediately suspend all joint military exercises and exchanges with the US. Nice one!



This also surprised me. I am all for Taiwan's independence if that is what they wish. But at the same time we really need to do more to get rid of the animosity and get more trust with the Chinese. We do not need any more Cold wars. If the people of Taiwan claim independence then the world should recognize that and should protect them from the Chinese if the they threaten them. But we should really be working toward friendly relations between the US, Taiwan, China and Japan.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Well I assume that the riposte will be to comment on Chinese arms sales to Iran.

I do hope this thread recovers from its cynical start. There was a time when the Taiwanese were friendly Guess that time must have passed.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3711 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
There was a time when the Taiwanese were friendly Guess that time must have passed.

I do not understand, is Taiwan not friendly now? Who are they not friendly with?

BTW, this is not just the Patriot batteries Tiawan wants to buy, but is also the Kidd class DDs that were delivered back in 2005 included in this amount. I guess Taiwan needs to make a payment on those 4 warships now?


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3704 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
There was a time when the Taiwanese were friendly Guess that time must have passed.

I do not understand, is Taiwan not friendly now? Who are they not friendly with?

I was rather hoping they were friendly, but reply one seemed not to think so????

I think Tiawan is not getting all it wants, esp in terms of new fighters, might have to see how Rafales and Typhoons go, just the place for Typhoons you would think!!! Maybe that is why they chose the name, foresight.

It seems that China is now threatening unpleasant things to all US firms associated with the sales. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8488765.stm
China has announced a series of moves against the US in retaliation for a proposed weapons sale to Taiwan worth $6.4bn (£4bn).

Beijing said it would suspend military exchanges with the US, impose sanctions on companies selling arms, and review co-operation on major issues.

....
"Considering the severe harm and odious effect of US arms sales to Taiwan, the Chinese side has decided to suspend planned mutual military visits."

"We strongly demand that the US respect the Chinese side's interests", it added, calling for the sale to be stopped.


The wording would be even more funny if some White House press statements over the past few years had not come to sound more and more like statements from China or even a few start to sound as if lessons are being taken from N Korea. Odious effects - tut tut.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3689 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 4):
I think Tiawan is not getting all it wants, esp in terms of new fighters, might have to see how Rafales and Typhoons go, just the place for Typhoons you would think!!! Maybe that is why they chose the name, foresight.

Typhoons would be excellent for Taiwan, even better than the F-16s they have right now.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 4):
It seems that China is now threatening unpleasant things to all US firms associated with the sales. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

Wouldn't China need to add EADS to the list if Taiwan bought some Typhoons? What would happen to the A-32X production in China if that happened?


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3674 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 4):
It seems that China is now threatening unpleasant things to all US firms associated with the sales. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

Wouldn't China need to add EADS to the list if Taiwan bought some Typhoons? What would happen to the A-32X production in China if that happened?

About the same as will happen to 787 sales now you might suppose. The reference to Typhoons was more because Taiwan and the Philippines are essentially the home of the atmospheric typhoons, but of course there is a Eurofighter version too. It is Eurofighter GMBH BTW not exactly EADS that make the Typhoon.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3648 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
There was a time when the Taiwanese were friendly Guess that time must have passed.

Taiwan is certainly friendly and as far as the US is concerned, the stipulations of the Taiwan Relations Act remain in effect and have not been amended. Insofar as that's the case, it is not our responsibility to perpetually provide them arms. Arms sales are as much a form of foreign aid as anything else, and my cynicism extends to any realpolitik actions by Washington that give excessive assistance to friendly nations that are more than capable of developing their own arms and technology.

Taiwan doesn't actually need squadrons full of US or European aircraft - US strategic bombers and various other implements are just a stone's throw away on Okinawa, where they've been since before the TRA was enacted.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Well I assume that the riposte will be to comment on Chinese arms sales to Iran.

The larger issue is their weight on the UNSC.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3632 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
China is already claiming that they will immediately suspend all joint military exercises and exchanges with the US. Nice one!

Is there ever a time when China isn't bitching about something? They're kinda like kids who get upset when people that they consider to be their friends, hang out with people they don't like. Really childish.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
actions by Washington that give excessive assistance to friendly nations that are more than capable of developing their own arms and technology.

Maybe it was a show of friendly gesture



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3617 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 8):
Is there ever a time when China isn't bitching about something? They're kinda like kids who get upset when people that they consider to be their friends, hang out with people they don't like.

We need to get used to dealing with it. Even conservative projections have their GDP passing ours within two decades. Personally I'm for better relations with them within reason - everyone makes more money that way.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 8):

Maybe it was a show of friendly gesture

The Taiwan Relations Act predates you by a fair bit, but it was friendly gesture enough.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

Whats stops China from invading Taiwan.They could take over in days.
What would be the consequences apart from sanctions.

On the other hand......will taiwan declare Independence......what will be the worlds reaction.

regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3594 times:
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Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Whats stops China from invading Taiwan.They could take over in days.

Possibly the prospect of world war?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1718 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3560 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Whats stops China from invading Taiwan.

The United States Navy,.... and others. China would be smart to recognise Taiwan's independence and work from there. It would give the PRC the moral high-ground regarding security issues. As it stands now they continue with this idea that Formosa is actually part of the PRC occupied buy unruly insurgents. That view may well have been true 60 years ago, but, as the saying goes, that was then and this is now. Let it go; too much water under the bridge, move along.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3517 times:



Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 12):

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Whats stops China from invading Taiwan.

The United States Navy,.... and others. China would be smart to recognise Taiwan's independence and work from there. It would give the PRC the moral high-ground regarding security issues. As it stands now they continue with this idea that Formosa is actually part of the PRC occupied buy unruly insurgents. That view may well have been true 60 years ago, but, as the saying goes, that was then and this is now. Let it go; too much water under the bridge, move along.

But this wom´t work as long as the Chinese government sees Taiwan and some groups of uninhabited islands in the South China Sea as justification for huge territorial claims at the expense of it´s neighbours.
Don´t forget that once you controll some islands, your territotial waters and economical exclusion zone expand tremendously.
Based on the occupation of some uninhabited small islands (Spratley Islands, Paracel Islands), China cpractically claims the whole South China Sea as far south as Borneo and the southern Philippines as territorial waters.

Jan


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25414 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

Let the Chinese throw their weight around a bit if it makes them feel better.

The US has the right, and also has a moral and legal responsibility to support Taiwan. The ROC has a right to modernize and keep its defences up to date. Matter of fact I am more surprised that the timid nature of this sale actually, with no real offensive arms included which were requested by the ROC.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3494 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
A senior U.S. administration official on a call with reporters said that the sale “contributes to stability in the region.” ...

I hope this "official" is found and fired.

I didn't think Obama had it in him to stand up to China's bullying. I am pleasantly surprised. Good job, Obama.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3477 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
Possibly the prospect of world war?

The thing that most Americans and other western nations don't get is China is very patient. Asian companies too are not managed with a quarterly earnings mentality that whipsaw American businesses back and forth. Asian culture also have very long memories aka grudges. China waited for 99 years to get Hong Kong back under its control. China is a 4,000 year old country, so the history is deep between them and the 400+ year old Taiwan.

The west and America haven't exactly stood firm with Taiwan over the years. Taiwan also knows it has been forsaken by the west before so really can't count on its help during a true, military attack or invasion. Ask Average Joe American anything about Taiwan and they'd be hard pressed to name one single thing, and if they could would be some sound byte or talking point they heard somewhere.

Taiwan's more formalized ties with China are inevitable.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3369 times:
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Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 16):
China waited for 99 years to get Hong Kong back under its control.

They would do - that was what the length of the lease dictated.  confused 

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 16):
Ask Average Joe American anything about Taiwan and they'd be hard pressed to name one single thing,

And since when did the 'Average Joe American' view on foreign affairs mean a great deal in such matters? A lot of Americans don't know much about a hell of a lot of countries (obviously not all Americans, before anyone feels personally insulted.....).



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3318 times:



Quoting SpeedyGonzales (Reply 18):
Is there ever a time when USA isn't bitching about something? They're kinda like kids who get upset when people that they consider to be their friends, hang out with people they don't like. Really childish.

Sadly, the vast majority of those that always propose interfering in other's business here in the US, actually believe the USA acts altruistically and never in her own self interest to the detriment of others. I kid you not. That's how naive they are. And they condemn other countries for needing to follow their own self interest as if its a personal affront to the USA. And as I said before, they have no clue as to history or what the US may or may not have done. But they are cocksure certain of one thing, "we are the good guys with pure and unselfish interests just trying to help __________________", the other country is evil, spiteful, and terrorists. Meanwhile, the defense contractors leap for joy.

Pathetic.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3275 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Based on the occupation of some uninhabited small islands (Spratley Islands, Paracel Islands), China practically claims the whole South China Sea as far south as Borneo and the southern Philippines as territorial waters.

If they had an orange flag Jan I would wave it.   But overall you are right, just the word practically does not quite cover it!! Some of their maps include claims to Natuna Is which are pretty firmly part of Indonesia and are very inhabited. Also unlike most of the other island groups that have POTENTIAL for oil and gas discoveries, they have a number of producing oilfields and the giant, but CO2 rich Natuna gas field.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 16):
Ask Average Joe American anything about Taiwan and they'd be hard pressed to name one single thing,

And since when did the 'Average Joe American' view on foreign affairs mean a great deal in such matters?

US-Taiwan relations are probably even more problematical on a.net as the current form was more or less set under the administration of (dare I type the word???) Carter. Oh dear. I mean without that agreement Deng might not have set up those zones and the US might not have imported all those cheap goods from mainland China - somewhere else instead presumably including Taiwan which seems to be where most laptops still come from??


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3247 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):

Possibly the prospect of world war?

Name the opposing sides....
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3210 times:



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 1):
This also surprised me. I am all for Taiwan's independence if that is what they wish. But at the same time we really need to do more to get rid of the animosity and get more trust with the Chinese.

We should not be naive about our dealings with the Chinese government. "Trust" is not a word I would use in relation to them, now nor in the foreseeable future. In its present form, the Chinese government is only about expediency, appearances, a certain definition of 'national interest' and above all retaining their domestic power base. The Australian mining industry in the middle of recent negotiations found that if you negotiate too aggressively, you immediately are jailed as industrial spies!! Also, there is overwhelming evidence that they launched a highly sophisticated hack into around 200 top western technology companies during the so called compromise of Chinese dissident's Google mail accounts. This latter was a smoke screen for the massive trade secrets they stole in that simultaneous attack, about which the victim companies and the EU and US don't want to speak. This was co-ordinated by the Chinese army, and leveraged compromised servers in Taiwan (i wonder why?).We all need to kick the Chinese government's collective ass from time to time, or they will continue to think that they can do anything unchallenged. They do not have 'allies', only useful contacts...



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3201 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Based on the occupation of some uninhabited small islands (Spratley Islands, Paracel Islands), China practically claims the whole South China Sea as far south as Borneo and the southern Philippines as territorial waters.

If they had an orange flag Jan I would wave it. But overall you are right, just the word practically does not quite cover it!! Some of their maps include claims to Natuna Is which are pretty firmly part of Indonesia and are very inhabited. Also unlike most of the other island groups that have POTENTIAL for oil and gas discoveries, they have a number of producing oilfields and the giant, but CO2 rich Natuna gas field.

Obviously, having family in the Philippines (my fiancee´s, though she belongs to the Chinese ethnic minority in the Philippines, but considers herself Filipina), I´m biased and I´d like to see this country blossom and not being bullied by a hegemonial superpower up north.
But back to the topic:
Remember the argument between Denmark and Canada over a small uninhabited island in the arctic sea last year (Hans Island)?
It was not about a few acres of rock, but whoever has souvereignity over this island also controls a huge slice of the Arctic sea with all the natural resources below it. Similarly the Russians are currently trying to prove that the Lomossov Ridge under the Arctic Ocean is a geological continouity of Siberia, giving them control over most of the Arctic Ocean.

Unfortunately China´s military is much larger than the militaries of Vietnam, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia or Brunei, and they are fast in building up a blue water navy to control the sea.

Jan


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3193 times:



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 21):
They do not have 'allies', only useful contacts...

Not that France, the US, Germany, UK, or any other country is really much different at all.

Ask the average American on the right what their thoughts of France are, you'll find they think France, Iran, North Korea, Somalia aren't much different since the French are "pussies" and limp wristed, cowards. Of course they have no clue that France has been America's staunchest ally collectively since the founding of America.

In the 19th century France pretty much screwed China repeatedly. France used China for their own purposes, with things like the Treaty of Whampoa, the Summer Palace ransacking, and taking the port of Shanghai for their own use.

France is no better, and no worse than any other western power. Each country has their own needs and interests. Just because on a few issues one of our staunchest allies cannot help or cooperate with us, does not make them an enemy. In the US people roundly condemn China for dealing with Iran (that darned axis of evil), yet if anyone would actually do any reading on the subject they would understand why China not only does deal with Iran, but must deal with Iran as they do, and if any of us were in China's leadership role would continue to do so. If the west could get over its obsession with good or evil, happy or unhappy, and friend or foe mindset it might just help everyone get along.

To everyone, why do you think your country is right/wrong in supporting their respective ally China/Taiwan? I'm curious.


User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3185 times:



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 23):
Ask the average American on the right what their thoughts of France are, you'll find they think France, Iran, North Korea, Somalia aren't much different since the French are "pussies" and limp wristed, cowards. Of course they have no clue that France has been America's staunchest ally collectively since the founding of America.

"The average American on the right" is not the most authorative source of information on geopolotics, so I'm unlikely to do so.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 23):
In the 19th century France pretty much screwed China repeatedly.

As did a few others, but why do you make this about France whom I never mentioned? I happen to fly that flag as I live here, but am Australian as the call sign suggests. My point was not to boost any nation, but to respond to those who say we should make more effort to APPEASE China. Whoever has been a bully in the past, it is China who is tending more and more in that direction currently. I have no special concern for Taiwan, but for the principles in play.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 23):
If the west could get over its obsession with good or evil, happy or unhappy, and friend or foe mindset it might just help everyone get along.

The greatest racism, ethnic and religious bigotry I've experienced so far is BETWEEN Asian nations. I'm not sure we have a great deal to learn from their approach to politics. However, I agree with your general point.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
25 MoltenRock : Of course they did. My point since your flag says France tells me you are either from there or live there. In either case you would have read the dai
26 RussianJet : Come on MEL......it's not tricky to imagine - China vs USA and whoever may get dragged in on either side - more than enough potential for a wider con
27 Post contains images Baroque : Just one reservation the GREATEST is within some Asian nations, THEN we get to between them.   Well I try to do that but with clothes, there is this
28 Csavel : I eouldn't be too sure of China's taking Taiwan over in days. Taiwan is a very sophisticated island, and islands, even nowadays are easier to defend.
29 Post contains images Allrite : It's interesting to read the history of Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang. They aren't part of some 2000 year old homeland of China, but were subject to inva
30 Baroque : I agree with you but looking at from outside, we probably agree that "gentleman's agreement" is a bit of a misnomer even if it is the one generally u
31 TheCol : I'd sooner trust Russia over China. Mind you, they usually work as a team.
32 Flighty : Taiwan will call their own shots. And in a real disagreement, without any American trade, China would be struggling and would probably implode. Hence
33 HAWK21M : Think the USA will want a military encounter with China? regds MEL...
34 JJJ : The thing is neither side wants independence. It's a little bit more complicated than that. There was a civil war in China, the communists ended up c
35 RussianJet : No, I don't. But that's not to say it could never happen.
36 MD11Engineer : Interestingly there are groups in Taiwan, which voice the same claims for territory in the South and East China Seas as the PRC government in Beijing
37 Post contains images Mudboy : Do you seriously think China wants a war with the USA? That's right all us dumb Americans, still stuck in the "Cold War Mentality", when we were the
38 Post contains images MoltenRock : Sounds just like USA, Inc.'s public relations fluff pounded out on the airwaves daily. "We good, them bad"! Toss in a few grunts and we are good to g
39 OzGlobal : OK, I have some sympathy for your rant on the US and not sure what your ties to Singapore are, but remember you have chosen to live under a soft dict
40 Post contains images Mudboy : I must commend you for living in another country, and opining the great disgust you have, against your own. We need more people like you, to follow y
41 MoltenRock : The US won't because it can't. It didn't bother to do so the last time Taiwan's push for democracy was on the verge of success now did it? The US gov
42 MoltenRock : LMAO! Yes, when someone points out the ugly truth they are called haters. But it's not surprising as many whistleblowers have found out. Americans pr
43 Baroque : Only if you manage to work out who actually defeated the Germans in WWII, and for that matter possibly who was the cause of the Japanese surrender. H
44 Post contains images Mudboy : You should not have to, if you are gone the 330 days required? Well gee, if we cannot use that excuse, then why are we constantly blamed for somethin
45 Post contains links Baroque : Re the Japanese, you are lucky because matters were so confused that we will never know what caused them to do the bleeding obvious. I tend to think
46 Flighty : That's hard to imagine. China can always employ the Chinese worker first. I agree China is doing pretty well. America by definition has been doing OK
47 Post contains links MoltenRock : Because "you" (modern day Americans) refuse to learn from the past, ignore that America helped create the mess in the first place, and use rhetoric t
48 Mudboy : Gee, that sure did sound like some Liberal Democratic rhetoric to me? I would hate for some of those stupid Americans, as you put it, to think that t
49 MoltenRock : Republicans like the draft dodging Rhonda and Georgie and all those that fellated them are responsible. Bush I, and Clinton both worked on keeping a s
50 HAWK21M : One day I feel China will strike...But when they are strong economically & militarily. regds MEL.
51 Cerecl : Most definitely! As opposed to a certain country which simply invades other nations it dislikes? I guess some would think it is very mature... Apart
52 Aaron747 : Classic reply, positively classic.
53 Geekydude : Strike who? It's just amazing the what the koolaid in the war-mongering Indian press can do.
54 Aaron747 : Out of curiosity, that makes Xinhua what, exactly? The universal arbiter of truth?
55 Geekydude : An educated and reasonable person should make every attempt at making a good common-sense-basd judgement based on personal experience, scholarly read
56 Post contains links JoeCanuck : China not only tells the US who to deal with, but also who to speak with; http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/1...2/world/international_us_china_usa Wi
57 Post contains links MoltenRock : While true it's also tragic. Can you imagine what could have been done with that $2.5 trillion commitment if instead of blowing up a couple of 3rd wo
58 Post contains images Aaron747 : Wholeheartedly and humbly agree. Just checking Dear Leader is a term used in North Korea for their cognac-swilling demagogue.
59 Post contains images TheCol : Of course not. Japan and Germany would never try to take a run at North America... Welcome to the wall of shame. That one is gonna stick for a while.
60 MoltenRock : So are you saying you think the US went to war to defend democracy and democracy only? Or are you trying to twist what I said? It went to war to prot
61 TheCol : Protecting democracy counts as a self interest, which they learned the hard way. Here's another one for the wall of shame. You should really think th
62 BarfBag : No different from the nationalist drivel from the Chinese side, like claiming Arunachal Pradesh as 'southern Tibet' and 'part of China'. We've still
63 HAWK21M : Anything different in the chinese press.....That way I prefer a democratic leadership,they are more accountable. regds MEL.
64 Post contains images Cerecl : The US went to the war to defend itself, not to defend "democracy". It was ready to (mostly, as they did indirectly assist China and the UK) stay out
65 BarfBag : My statement was not about the territorial matter, but the fact that 'warmongering press' is not an exclusive Indian preserve; the Chinese side has i
66 Flighty : It's a good point. Your words on China have been ringing very true. But... They might. Or, they might make it appear that way. Lack of transparency m
67 Cerecl : Neither the Chinese government nor the mainstream press in China advocates war against India. The territorial dispute between China and India is the
68 BarfBag : And presumably the India press is full of demands to plant the Indian flag on Tiananmen Square ? Chinese posters should think carefully before throwi
69 TheCol : Name one current thing, besides the US embargo. It's one and the same. At the end of the day the West is in the same boat. A. His comment was bullshi
70 HAWK21M : I guess you Have not wisted the Chinese Govt official local website for their comments during the Dalai lamas visit to Arunachal pradesh recently. re
71 Cerecl : I never said that, and would appreciate you READ more carefully and refrain from making over-generalisations. I had a incomplete understanding of irr
72 Post contains images Allrite : Or Northern Ireland for that matter. Or many, many other countries. What rankles is that the Chinese government (and many of their expatriates who ge
73 HAWK21M : Thats the problem...You have not read the Articles on their website. Primarily......Tibet was the buffer between India & China................ regds
74 EA772LR : Really?? Got evidence to back that up? I'm pretty sure we found their own weapons being bought by Saddam in Iraq Neither is the "Average American on
75 MoltenRock : As an American born & raised of Asian decent (not Chinese) I too thought China was abusing Tibet & Taiwan until I spent time in Asia, Hong Kong, Chin
76 Texan : Not until China stops artificially devaluing their currency will economic dealings be fair. In a sense that can be said about every nation. It is a v
77 MoltenRock : That's a convenient talking point. May I ask have you read the opposing side of that argument? There are a number of distinguished economists that sa
78 Texan : Devaluation affects import prices, not domestic prices or production. China's devaluation of its currency is against W.T.O. regulations that ban impo
79 Post contains images TheCol :    Yeah, I'm gonna stop here. Only a complete idiot would think Germany and Japan were thriving democracies in 1941. Respond with what? What possib
80 Post contains images Cerecl : They have to because of popular demand. The Chinese people have long memories, and the period of 1840-1949 were littered with treaties, land grabs an
81 Post contains links texan : Here is an interesting take on it by The Economist: http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...=15452821&source=hptextfeature Texan
82 Post contains links MoltenRock : Unfortunately, after I made a long, in-depth post A.net crashed. As a quick recap of what I had written, was: I appreciate your "education" on curren
83 texan : I agree with you. I have read many argument on both sides of the currency devaluation argument. I find the devaluation arguments much more persuasive
84 BarfBag : That's a fair point - the IA subsequently gaining the upper hand in later border clashes with the PLA in 1967 and 1986 also turns my opinion. But in
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