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Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8149 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Well now that the results have come out of a FOIA request on Speaker Pelosi's airborne activities aboard USAF flights over the last two years, the proof is, as they say, in the details. Although the totals are not large, it's this kind of graft that really gets under my skin - these people "representing" us don't pay their own way when they can and stiff us with the bill for all kinds of things we shouldn't be paying for:

the Speaker’s military travel cost the Air Force $2,100,744.59 over a two-year period — $101,429.14 for in-flight expenses, including food and alcohol

If she had any kind of integrity, she'd be paying that out of her own pocket. Not only can her family fortune easily afford it, but it's not an exorbitant sum for a private individual used to VIP travel. As stated many times before, unless you're a DoD official, intelligence officer, or high-ranking member of the executive branch, there is no need for this kind of taxpayer-funded travel.

The average cost of an international congressional delegation (CODEL) is $228,563.33. Of the 103 Pelosi-led CODELs, 31 trips included members of the House Speaker’s family.

For a 60-something woman this makes me think the grandkids are getting a taxpayer-funded trip to interesting spots around the world. Buy them tickets to join the trip on your own dime!!

One CODEL traveling from Washington, D.C. through Tel Aviv, Israel to Baghdad, Iraq from May 15-20, 2008, “to discuss matters of mutual concern with government leaders” included members of Congress and their spouses and cost $17,931 per hour in aircraft alone. Purchases for the CODEL included: Johnny Walker Red scotch, Grey Goose vodka, E&J brandy, Bailey’s Irish Crème, Maker’s Mark whiskey, Courvoisier cognac, Bacardi Light rum, Jim Beam whiskey, Beefeater gin, Dewars scotch, Bombay Sapphire gin, Jack Daniels whiskey, Corona beer and several bottles of wine.

You can get all that stuff on a UA charter. She's not even supporting her home district since I don't see any Anchor Steam, Skyy vodka, or any other San Francisco-made liquor products on that list. So much for representation!

http://www.judicialwatch.org/weeklyupdate/2010/04-pelosi-party-planes

Pelosi's the easiest target since she's been the subject of so many FOIA requests but there's more of them doing it. It doesn't matter what party you claim membership in, this crap is plain wrong! I've been a member of Taxpayers for Common Sense for four years now - if enough people stand up to this idiocy it will finally stop.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5271 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4062 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Pelosi's the easiest target since she's been the subject of so many FOIA requests but there's more of them doing it. It doesn't matter what party you claim membership in, this crap is plain wrong!

It would be nice if more people realized this instead of turning everything into a partisan bitchfest. That said, this thread will likely turn into one so I shall make my exit at this point...



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3302 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Third in line from the presidency...


"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

Just raise our taxes so we can pay for it, because we can afford it, can't we?  white 

User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

Not that big of a deal. The top of each branch of government ought to have fairly good catering. I don't see where this became improper. Yes Nancy takes trips. Yes she really does have enough rank to do it. Yes she is third in line, and first in the Legislative branch, more or less. Should the Supreme Court not have catering either? Obviously they do have. So does every govt branch down about 600 levels below Nancy. Let her drink the good stuff, IMHO. If her family drinks it, so be it. Compared to Obama, this is nothing.

User currently offlineUS330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3871 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4001 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
If she had any kind of integrity, she'd be paying that out of her own pocket. Not only can her family fortune easily afford it, but it's not an exorbitant sum for a private individual used to VIP travel

Exactly--her family is independently wealthy, and if she had any sense of common decency, she would be paying for this stuff out of pocket. If Obama is looking for things to cut, I'd suggest stuff like this.

At minimum, it shows that she is incredibly out of touch with the rest of the country that has forced to cut back because of the recession.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8149 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4000 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
I don't see where this became improper

So people should be able to shuttle their grandkids to and from Israel for the hell of it, on USAF VIP aircraft, when they can well pay for it on their own? Totally illogical.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
Should the Supreme Court not have catering either? Obviously they do have. So does every govt branch down about 600 levels below Nancy.

This is not federal office catering. These are catered VIP flights operated by the federal government 100% at taxpayer expense - big difference. And we're not talking about hardworking bureaucrats here (they more than deserve good catering and thankfully do get it in their cafeterias from what I've experienced) - we're talking about a member of Congress, which you should essentially regard as talking and wearing boring suits for a living.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 2):
Third in line from the presidency...

...but not the President, in any way shape or form. I don't see the relevance.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
Let her drink the good stuff, IMHO

Johnny Walker? Jim Beam?? Maker's Mark??? Not anything close to the good stuff - I'm nowhere near the seven figure bank account bracket and buy liquor a fair bit above those.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3030 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3978 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
It doesn't matter what party you claim membership in, this crap is plain wrong!



My sentiments exactly.

Fortunately she is a member of the house of representatives and is voted to her position as a representative of the majority of that constituency.
You can extrapolate that her behavior is acceptable to the value and beliefs of a majority of her constituency otherwise, she would not continue to be re-elected or be recalled.

Okie


User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3977 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
So people should be able to shuttle their grandkids to and from Israel for the hell of it, on USAF VIP aircraft, when they can well pay for it on their own? Totally illogical.

This is what I have the biggest problem with, by far. Even if she couldn't pay for tickets to Israel for her grandkids, tough shit. USAF VIP aircraft should be used only by politicians and military officials on government business, full stop.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

Still, I agree with you guys on one hand, but Pelosi is still #3. Should she fly commercial, well she can't because of her rank. If she wishes to go to Israel, I am inclined to say she is powerful enough to snap her fingers and do it. That is what it means to have authority. You set the agenda and recieve support and protection. Who knows, maybe she was elected and lawfully installed in her position. Or maybe she is just some yahoo. you be the judge.

User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8149 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3907 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
Should she fly commercial, well she can't because of her rank. If she wishes to go to Israel, I am inclined to say she is powerful enough to snap her fingers and do it. That is what it means to have authority.

You just contradicted yourself. If she can do whatever she wants, then she can surely put her $25 million net worth to good use and book all of the first class section on LY, privilege and USAF frills be damned. That is what it means to have authority!



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25334 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

I would not worry about the overseas trips.

What I would like to see the cost involved in with her near weekly D.C. - California commutes especially since she refused to take the USAF Gulfstream that was assigned and had White House pressure to provide her the USAF 737 and occasional 757 instead in order to avoid the required fuel stop enroute on the Gulfstream which she would not put up with.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11649 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

And the right does the exact same thing. Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is. It happens on both sides, but when large numbers of people go around with blinders on, the only thing that is important is their guys are not doing it. Anyone see the article about Palin running out and spending without a care in the world during the presidential campaign all the while telling the world "I am a working mother just like you!"? The right does it too, so don't get your knickers in a twist. We all know you hate the left.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3844 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):

the Speaker’s military travel cost the Air Force $2,100,744.59 over a two-year period — $101,429.14 for in-flight expenses, including food and alcohol

I'm sure Pelosi is not the only head of state, or politician or rep of the gov't, whatever you'd like to like them, to use this many expenses within the last 20 years.

If you want to make a big deal out of this, what about the POTUS? Why is it when he's traveling, he has not only a decoy aircraft, but numerous other military aircraft that fly in everything from food to fuel. I understand the need for safety, but you can imagine the massive amount of money it takes for the US gov't to fly the POTUS somwhere.

Pelosi should be extended the same amount of courtesies extended to other heads of states, but if she is going overboard with her expenditures, then she should absolutely pay out of her own pocket.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3839 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
And the right does the exact same thing. Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is.

Here is an example of how clueless you are. To label Aaron747 right along with the other right-wingers on this forum that you bash on so much is just laughable. I'm a right-winger who has agreed and disagreed with Aaron747 on numerous issues throughout the years. His opinion is one I respect and weigh more because he sees through most bias and is willing to call out garbage on both sides when he sees it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Anyone see the article about Palin running out and spending without a care in the world during the presidential campaign all the while telling the world "I am a working mother just like you!"?

Was Palin doing it with Federal Tax Dollars or campaign contributions? There's a bit of a huge difference.

I don't see a problem with her using USAF aircraft if the travel is related to business but if she's going home for the holidays, I don't see why she can't take a UA flight from IAD to SFO at her own expense.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 8):
USAF VIP aircraft should be used only by politicians and military officials on government business, full stop.

If an official is already going overseas on a USAF plane for business and there is "Space Available" for the family to come along, I don't have a problem with it. But any additional expenses should be paid out of pocket by the government official.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
We all know you hate the left.

And we all know you hate the right and that you are EXACTLY like the right-blow hards you detest so much. You're so blind that you're unaware of who lies where on the political spectrum around here and as soon as anyone disagrees with you, they're a "righty who only bashes the left and calls their bashing and opposition 'patriotic' if a Democrat is President but if a lefty objects when a Republican is President, than it's 'terrorism'." I think I've just summed up every post you've ever made.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
She's not even supporting her home district since I don't see any Anchor Steam, Skyy vodka, or any other San Francisco-made liquor products on that list. So much for representation!

Maybe the inflight meal is "Rice-a-roni - The San Francisco Treat".  rotfl  Although I'll give her props if she has Ghirardelli chocolate on the list.  yummy 


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26483 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3811 times:



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Well now that the results have come out of a FOIA request on Speaker Pelosi's airborne activities aboard USAF flights over the last two years, the proof is, as they say, in the details. Although the totals are not large, it's this kind of graft that really gets under my skin - these people "representing" us don't pay their own way when they can and stiff us with the bill for all kinds of things we shouldn't be paying for:

Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25334 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3805 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
but if she's going home for the holidays, I don't see why she can't take a UA flight from IAD to SFO at her own expense.


This was brought up in 2007 after she became speaker, but on national security grounds as she is second in the presidential line of succession she is bared from travelling commercial.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3776 times:



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 16):
This was brought up in 2007 after she became speaker, but on national security grounds as she is second in the presidential line of succession she is bared from travelling commercial.

Is that true? (Serious question). I thought Nixon, while President, took a commercial flight during the gas crisis in the 1970s.

Here's what I found through snopes.com: Snopes
Following 9/11, President Bush ordered the Speaker of the House (3rd in Line for the Presidency) to travel on "secure government transportation" when "traveling on official business"

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

When on business, yes. But do they get to use the company's resources for personal leisure? Do they get to use the company's resources to pay for their family if they come along if it means additional cost? That policy varies from company to company.


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11649 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3748 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
To label Aaron747 right along with the other right-wingers on this forum that you bash on so much is just laughable. I'm a right-winger who has agreed and disagreed with Aaron747 on numerous issues throughout the years. His opinion is one I respect and weigh more because he sees through most bias and is willing to call out garbage on both sides when he sees it.

I do not always agree with Aaron, but I do respect him much more than certain other republican supporters on this board. However, I was actually pointing out the chorus of "We hate the left because this is what they do" that always seems to come up whenever anyone with a (D) behind their name so much as coughs the wrong way.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
we all know you hate the right

So, I am bad because I point out the hypocracy of the right? This is why it is so hard to respect any republican supporter. They all seem to throw this line out whenever they are caught.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3713 times:



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
However, I was actually pointing out the chorus of "We hate the left because this is what they do" that always seems to come up whenever anyone with a (D) behind their name so much as coughs the wrong way.

Yea, where's the BS Flag when you need one?  sarcastic 

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is.

So which is it? You just said that you respect Aaron, but then you said this post was only an attack on the left.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
hypocracy

What is "hypocracy"? I see you spell it "hypocracy" in every thread. The fact that you don't know how to spell it tells me that you probably don't know what it really means either.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
So, I am bad because I point out the hypocracy of the right?

Your posts are bad because again, you are as bad as the right wingers you (attempt to) call out. Your post accomplish nothing other than telling us that you hate Republicans and right-wing advocates as much as you claim they hate you because you're a liberal and nothing will change that.


As for "hypocracy" - how about an answer to this question.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Anyone see the article about Palin running out and spending without a care in the world during the presidential campaign all the while telling the world "I am a working mother just like you!"?

Was Palin doing it with Federal Tax Dollars or campaign contributions? There's a bit of a huge difference.

I don't see a problem with her using USAF aircraft if the travel is related to business but if she's going home for the holidays, I don't see why she can't take a UA flight from IAD to SFO at her own expense.

To the rest of A.net: any takers that he'll run from the question (again)?


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2862 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Surly if the "system" in the US allows this to happen, then perhaps the system needs changing.

No good crying about it if NO law has been broken is there?

Pelosi has broken no law if the "system" allows then go for it in my book, I would too.

Change the system so running up expenses like this are no longer possible.

Its really VERY simple !!



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5271 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3699 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

 checkmark  IMHO, it's wasteful no matter how you look at it. Executives charge the company, politicians charge the taxpayer. Here in Salt Lake, the City's travel expenses are easily accessible and the amount of waste on travel alone is astounding. Millions of dollars in travel expenses are spent each year on various "conferences". I've been to some of these conferences, and I can tell you that, more often than not, they're not really relevant to anything the attendees do in their jobs.

P.S. And yes I know that I said that I was checking out of this thread so don't anyone bother bringing it up.  



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3697 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
Still, I agree with you guys on one hand, but Pelosi is still #3. Should she fly commercial, well she can't because of her rank



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
Following 9/11, President Bush ordered the Speaker of the House (3rd in Line for the Presidency) to travel on "secure government transportation" when "traveling on official business"

Correct. Prior to 9/11, the Speaker flew commercial. After 9/11, the Speaker was given access to a Gulfstream-sized 12-seater. Pelosi demanded to be upgraded to a 737.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
Let her drink the good stuff, IMHO

Johnny Walker? Jim Beam?? Maker's Mark??? Not anything close to the good stuff - I'm nowhere near the seven figure bank account bracket and buy liquor a fair bit above those.

We have a government in $13 trillion of debt, and spending some 50% more than it brings in. All government planes should be carrying nothing more than water.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3692 times:



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Correct. Prior to 9/11, the Speaker flew commercial. After 9/11, the Speaker was given access to a Gulfstream-sized 12-seater. Pelosi demanded to be upgraded to a 737.

According to the Snopes article I posted, Pelosi wanted an aircraft that had enough range to fly from DC to California without having to stop and refuel. My feeling is, if she's on business and the time is valuable, okay. If she's on leisure, and has to use a smaller plane which will burn far less fuel, then she can stop somewhere between DC and California and wait a few minutes for the plane to gas up.


Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
We have a government in $13 trillion of debt, and spending some 50% more than it brings in. All government planes should be carrying nothing more than water.

I agree that booze should not be complimentary on government aircraft. No problem with pop and coffee, but free booze is pushing the limits of "wastefulness" there.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8149 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3684 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
Following 9/11, President Bush ordered the Speaker of the House (3rd in Line for the Presidency) to travel on "secure government transportation" when "traveling on official business"

I don't think shuttling grandkids around the globe constitutes "official business". If it's official business, no family should be coming along, period. That goes for everyone in Congress!!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
All government planes should be carrying nothing more than water.

Fully agree. They can eat table rolls and canned soup too. Nothing wrong with Campbell's chicken noodle.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 23):
Pelosi wanted an aircraft that had enough range to fly from DC to California without having to stop and refuel. My feeling is, if she's on business and the time is valuable, okay. If she's on leisure, and has to use a smaller plane which will burn far less fuel, then she can stop somewhere between DC and California and wait a few minutes for the plane to gas up.

If she doesn't want a fuel stop, there are plenty of choices from IAD. Anything else is plain abuse, I don't care what the last administration decided.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

Not always. In response to the economic crisis, many executives at firms in this country have been cut off from the corporate dole. Toyota executives must fly economy class and stay in modestly-priced business hotels - anything else comes out of their own pocket. They are also not permitted to accrue air miles on company business.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is. It happens on both sides, but when large numbers of people go around with blinders on, the only thing that is important is their guys are not doing it.

Um, what?? My original post stated clearly she's not the only one doing it. The fact that you can't condemn her willfull disregard of the public trust and abuse of position privilege says a lot.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
25 TheCol : No, that's totally rediculous. Especially when they can afford to charter their own flights. This was a non-partisan thread until you showed up. The
26 Moose135 : I see we're trotting out that old, long-since debunked line again. She did not demand to be upgraded to a 737. The House Sergant-At-Arms, for securit
27 OA412 : Well...People can come up with really creative ways of making personal time count as company time. Not saying every exec does it, just that I'm sure
28 FlyDeltaJets87 : In all fairness, even the military extends this courtesy to dependents (family members of those in the military). A C-5 may be running a mission from
29 OA412 : If I've learned one thing in life, it's that people are very good at practicing the motto "do as I say, not as I do." I've seen this in pretty much e
30 FlyDeltaJets87 : In some cases, sure. However it's directed at someone who often wants to talk about the intelligence level of those from the outside urban areas beca
31 Post contains images OA412 : Please! I know plenty of idiots in urban areas who listen to Rush Limbaugh.
32 FlyDeltaJets87 : I'll give you props for that. Well played, sir.
33 SCCutler : Meaningless comparison. Executives at companies are spending the money earned by the company through productive enterprise. Members of congress are s
34 TheCommodore : Sorry but I don't get it. I mean I find it abhorrent that Speaker Pelosi can spend this much money on food and drink, but at the same time I cant unde
35 Aloha73G : I have no problem with the Speaker of the House (Democrat or Republican; Newt or Nancy) being transported to/from her home district on a military airc
36 N1120A : Not at all. Indeed, she is MORE important than they are. Extracted by force? If you want anarchy and no government, move to Somalia. If you want to f
37 Aaron747 : The comparison was yours not mine, and I specifically referred to Toyota executives - which means the President on down. If you're changing context t
38 N1120A : Source? Incidentally, do the President's kids fly on AF1? No, actually, you took it and used one unconfirmed example of a single company in the harde
39 Aaron747 : The quoted reference in post 1 cites 31 instances of flying with family members aboard. Given her age, number of grandchildren (7), and close-knit fa
40 FlyDeltaJets87 : And last time I checked, our government owes a ton of money too - far more than the auto-companies - by factors that can be described using Powers of
41 Seb146 : I was, in my own wierd way (I thought) also pointing out the fact that both sides do it. However, since I said something, it turned partisan. I am so
42 FlyDeltaJets87 : You said something and it "turned" partisan? What?!?!? How can "Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is"," not be mistake
43 Post contains images N1120A : The DC-10 was a publicity stunt, it wasn't an indication of practical use. Indeed, government officials fly commercial all the time. Ted Kennedy flew
44 FlyDeltaJets87 : I consider myself a conservative/borderline libertarian. I've been pro-gay marriage since joining A.net in August 2006 (it was just before joining A.
45 N1120A : Not to mention that we are talking about the Speaker of the House, who is indeed third in line for the presidency.
46 Aaron747 : This is hardly relevant. That means if she is assassinated while the President is still living and in office, someone else will succeed her. Third in
47 SCCutler : No one challenges the importance of having government... but the government (and all who set policy) have a sworn duty to use its resources (all of w
48 Flighty : We can go back and forth about this. Even mid-grade banking and hedge fund guys travel by jet. Pelosi leads one branch of the world's largest organiz
49 Aaron747 : Those folks are most often on highly time-sensitive missions that deliver tangible value to their stakeholders, so they should be using the most conv
50 Seb146 : Did you not read any of posts 1 through 11? I posted the obvious in post 12. I know anyone not agreeing with the right is just supposed to shut up an
51 FlyDeltaJets87 : Indeed I did. Perhaps you can point out who brought the left vs. right crap here before you did. The closest (which is still a huge stretch) was prob
52 N1120A : You do have the choice to elect different leaders. You just don't get it. I am a blindly obedient supporter of no one. Pelosi is in her place of powe
53 SCCutler : Which "it" don't I "get" - the one where government officials have a vested right to waste resources? Which still does not create a right to consume
54 N1120A : That isn't what you aren't getting. Didn't say it did. Right, a 747. Separate but Equal. The Supreme Court doesn't require travel, but Congress does.
55 FlyDeltaJets87 : Plus the C-17s for his limo and the other secret service vehicles. And the C-17s for the helicopter transport if needed. And the C-17s that go in ahe
56 Pellegrine : Please. People getting so mad over $100k? If I were the one flying private and not Speaker Pelosi, my flights would probably be closer to $1M. It is n
57 UA777222 : To be honest, the flight is going to cost all the same with 1 or 100 people on board. Save logic vs. principal. I don't know if anyone has been able
58 Aaron747 : It's not the amount that is the problem - it's the lack of respect for the common citizen paying taxes. Some might even call it "being out of touch".
59 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : This thread reminds me of that one time Clinton deicded it was time for a haircut on the LAX ramp. Hell, if I had the power to stop ATC at one of the
60 UA777222 : It's a stretch but it's there. By law she cannot fly on a commercial aircraft. Regardless of what you feel about her position, her decisions, or her
61 Aaron747 : You had me with the whole thing until that last line. I'm not convinced unchallenged protection for the leader of the House of Representatives aboard
62 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : Ahh yes my deepest apologies to the mushroom.      
63 UA777222 : What if a bomb went off at the basketball game that both Biden and Obama were at this past week? Then what do we do? Unfortunately, you cannot go and
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