DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16935 posts, RR: 57 Posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4657 times:
This isn't in response to any single event, but think about it: almost everything that is run by the US Government is completely inept and incapable of operating efficiently or effectively. The exceptions are few (the CDC, NASA to some degree, maybe the Census Bureau).
Examples:
The TSA (all of DHS, really)
A good portion of the FAA
The FCC
The DOD (do you know how much it SHOULD cost to run the military as opposed to how much it DOES cost?)
The FTC
The FDA
The DEA (a truly worthless organization if there ever was)
The EPA
All of these organizations do a poor job of what they're supposed to be doing and cost vastly more than they ought to cost. Terrorists slide right through TSA screening. The FAA can't even get an up-to-date ATC system online. The FCC...three words: Janet Jackson's Boob. The DOD and their idiotic bureaucracy cost more money than any aircraft carrier ever will, and in the mean time the money that they COULD be spending on the boys and girls who need their equipment, paychecks, and benefits instead disappears into mountains of paperwork. The FTC can't seem to regulate or control anything they're supposed to. The FDA has their heads up their arses when it comes to throwing huge, scary warnings over perfectly safe drugs and then turning a blind eye to the dangerous ones. The DEA... well the entire concept is a waste of money. And the EPA seems to be incapable of protecting the same environment they're supposed to.
Why? Comments that it's all the Liberals' or Conservatives' fault aren't helpful. It's not that simple. Liberals and Conservatives both run very successful enterprises of all sorts from states to companies. Americans in general aren't totally inept. So why can't our government run efficiently and smoothly? France's sure does (by comparison). So does Australia's, New Zealand's, Canada's, heck...even *gasp* the UK's.
For all the complaining that I hear from Conservatives about taxes and from Liberals about inadequate services, we could all be paying much lower taxes and getting a lot more bang for our buck if our government could find its own anus with the assistance of a map and a flashlight.
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11435 posts, RR: 81 Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4633 times:
Our founding fathers set up the government in a way that guaranteed inefficiency and a devolution to the lowest common denominator....on purpose. They feared efficient government more than anything else. Most efficient organizations are very controlling of their subjects and don't brook dissension or objection easily or gladly, and they'd had some recent experience with a government that wanted to efficiently control them as was common elsewhere (look at the East India Company as an efficient organization, relatively speaking). The various government entities' ability to create and enforce regulations absent votes from elected officials makes it more dangerous, and slows up all processes outside the government, which makes our life more difficult. Except for the areas where we want more regulation, and that depends on the person whom you may ask.
I think that the government often attracts as employees people who don't thrive in the private sector and cherish the bureaucracy and byzantine machinations of the leviathan from which it's next to impossible to be fired. These people, and the need to satisfy the desires and requirements of tha majority of taxpayers (of myriad different interests and loci) make it impossible (or next to) to be effiicient in any facet of the government that doesn't involve absolute freedom to kill anyone who gets in the way (the military on the offensive, for example, is a very efficient monster, but the instant it gets leashed by a politician reacting to something it begins its degradation towards inefficiency and sloth).
Hope that lights it up a bit......doesn't an efficient government sort of scare you? I think less government is a more likely workable model for getting things sped up and make life more simple.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4609 times:
Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
Hope that lights it up a bit......doesn't an efficient government sort of scare you? I think less government is a more likely workable model for getting things sped up and make life more simple.
There are extremes of efficiency (The Nazis were amazingly efficient) and then there are extremes of inefficiency (I give you the government of Nigeria).
I think that there's a happy medium and right now we're heading more in the direction of Nigeria than we are in the direction of the Nazis. I would rather a government that resembles France's.
2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 6978 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4598 times:
Politicians are worried about reelection and meeting the party bosses bottom line, they would be better if they paid attention to their constituents and yes even listen to those who did not vote for them than be in a constant campaign mode and being in it strictly for themselves.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
MoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4582 times:
America has the government it deserves. The American electorate is pitifully ignorant and votes for national candidates without a clue to where they stand.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 7882 posts, RR: 22 Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4566 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter): So why can't our government run efficiently and smoothly? France's sure does (by comparison). So does Australia's, New Zealand's, Canada's, heck...even *gasp* the UK's.
For all the complaining that I hear from Conservatives about taxes and from Liberals about inadequate services, we could all be paying much lower taxes and getting a lot more bang for our buck if our government could find its own anus with the assistance of a map and a flashlight.
Why? What's gone wrong?
Part of it is simply a matter of scale. Once you get beyond a few million people, a few tens of millions at the outside, you start getting increasing inefficiencies. No organization in human history has managed to work efficiently with 300 million "customers" and 2.2 million employees in a monopoly structure. It must be decentralized - farm out all the jobs like social security, welfare, unemployment, labor - things that were not supposed to be the federal government's job in the first place - and responsibility put back on the states, which are of a scale more capable of managing the work. It will even encourage competition between states - the best run ones will get the best businesses and people.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6088 posts, RR: 25 Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4565 times:
What's that got to do with the FCC? The FCC can't control the thousands of calls they got from citizens complaining.
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter): And the EPA seems to be incapable of protecting the same environment they're supposed to.
Any specifics? Keep in mind, the EPA is only as effective as Congress allows and funds.
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter): France's sure does (by comparison). So does Australia's, New Zealand's, Canada's, heck...even *gasp* the UK's.
All of those countries are VASTLY smaller than the U.S. which makes a difference. And I bet if you surveyed the citizens of those lands, you'd find many think their gov't is inefficient.
Also, with the exception of the DoD, most of those departments run on a shoe string budget. The FDA you loathe so much will have a budget of $3.2 Billion. That sounds like a lot, but relative to an economy of $15 Trillion dollars, it's nothing. There's no way you can adequately keep watch over the agriculture, food processing and pharmaceutical industries on that type of budget.
I would argue our government is inefficient because it tries to meet the needs of everyone. We make laws to cater to every little special interest group known to mankind. In doing so, it creates a byzantine maze of rules and regulations that slow government down.
Example: The FAA spent millions to do an airspace redesign to help improve traffic flow to NYC. The work was completed, but most of it has never been implemented. You might accuse the FAA of wasting money and being inefficient. However, the reason most of it hasn't gone into effect is that a variety of special interests from environmentalists, to NIMBYS and local governments have thrown up so many roadblocks the plan simply can't move forward. The FAA is now going back and comissioning more studies to pander to the needs of all these special interests which costs more money and wastes more time.
The editorial basically argues that Americans are too ignorant and refuse to make hard decisions. We want to reduce the deficit as long as it doesn't affect any programs in our area. Can you imagine what would happen to a politician who actually voted to cut government services for his or her area? That person would be skewered even though he is doing what the public generally wants, reducing the deficit. Or if the politician voted for raising taxes to cover the actual cost of projects? Same result.
Also, consider this quote from the editorial about the political parties in general:
Quote: I don't mean to suggest that honesty is what separates the two parties. Increasingly, the crucial distinction is between the minority of serious politicians in either party who are prepared to speak directly about our choices, on the one hand, and the majority who indulge the public's delusions, on the other. I would put President Obama and his economic team in the first group, along with California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Republicans are more indulgent of the public's unrealism in general, but Democrats have spent years fostering their own forms of denial. Where Republicans encourage popular myths about taxes, spending, and climate change, Democrats tend to stoke our fantasies about the sustainability of entitlement spending as well as about the cost of new programs.
To a large extent the editorial is true. To balance the budget you have to either cut essential government programs or raise taxes to cover the cost. The public will not allow either option to happen. We the People have handicapped the politicians since, if they want to have a job, they have to follow our will. When we are going to skewer them for making a tough decision, why in the world would they want to make a tough decision? It is much easier to not make a decision and just pass the blame instead of standing up for a principle and stating, in plain English, what needs to be done.
Or perhaps H.L. Mencken was more perspicacious than any of us realized. "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
He also followed that up with a quote that could be applied to multiple presidents (in my opinion, our last one most notably):
Quote: In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by the force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre -- the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.
The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
Perhaps we reached that day many years back, the politicians recognized our natural ability to be conned, and they have simply been playing us since that day. Of course, even if this is true, we are complicit in this conspiracy. We allow this game to be played because it relieves us from responsibility and gives us other people to blame. So who is to blame for the inherent ineptness and inability of our government to accomplish any meaningful tasks? We are.
Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
thegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2278 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4508 times:
Could be absorbed right into the FBI or even the US Marshals along with the ATF...
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2): I would rather a government that resembles France's.
.........
Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 4): America has the government it deserves. The American electorate is pitifully ignorant and votes for national candidates without a clue to where they stand.
Great...Here we go again
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6): No money, no up-to-date system.
Maybe if they weren't shelling out millions to GA airports with movements hovering around 30 per day...
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
What's that got to do with the FCC? The FCC can't control the thousands of calls they got from citizens complaining.
JetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1615 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4505 times:
I personally think that the problem is whenever there is a crisis or new administrations, they try to "streamline" the exec. branch, but that really seems to happen is that it adds another layer of bureaucracy.
Thanks for not taking aim at the legislative branch
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4490 times:
Who says Government is the only screwed up organization?
Look how banks have been run during the last decade. Any reason for confidence there?
Or how does Toyota work for you these days?
Did you see a few SNAFUs and FUBARs at the hospital when you were in your residency? By the long term employees I mean - we all know not to ask that about residents or interns.
Or the best of the week - the American Red Cross has 4 "bladders" to purify water in Haiti - for a city with 2+ million people. All the millions being donated today and they only manage 4 bladders? WTF?
No organization of any size will be free of the problems. An organization as large as the Federal Government will also have to function in a wide range of areas, from Defense to NIH to Treasury to National Parks to the DOJ. Then throw in 535 politicians and 9 really powerful (and isolated) judges.
Maybe the basic government functioning isn't that bad after all. My Social Security was properly taken for a lot of years and is now properly being returned to me. Medicare beats the hell out of private health insurance - IF you are paying for your own medical insurance out of your own pocket.
Heading to the airport in Orlando this morning at about 4:15 AM we could see the Endeavor launch from Kennedy this morning - spectacular even after having a 2:30 AM wake up call. NASA hasn't been 100% successful, but this morning showed that it does take on huge projects and it (part of our government) does achieve.
WarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6548 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4490 times:
Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 9): Thanks for not taking aim at the legislative branch
Good point, take a look at the efficiency of congress, there you have an answer.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4489 times:
Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 4): America has the government it deserves. The American electorate is pitifully ignorant and votes for national candidates without a clue to where they stand.
Tell me, do you not notice that people are tired of these kinds of baseless statements and no one takes you seriously or is there some other reason, flamebait comes to mind.
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter): Examples:
The TSA (all of DHS, really)
A good portion of the FAA
The FCC
The DOD (do you know how much it SHOULD cost to run the military as opposed to how much it DOES cost?)
The FTC
The FDA
The DEA (a truly worthless organization if there ever was)
The EPA
I reckon there are actually alot of pretty efficient government agencies but we just dont hear about them because there is little to complain about. However, I must agree that alot of them are at the state level. I find the DMV pretty efficient in Florida. Ive actually never stood in line, and its amazing how fast you get your license, plates and a freaking instant car title in the USA. Theres a bunch of other agencies which I think are not that wastefull, the US Forest Service, the Bureau of Land Management, Fish and Wildlife/DNR all come to mind.
I think hands down there are 2 agencies that really are just pitiful. The DHS and the IRS. Just terrible, terrible waste of money.
newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 33 Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4483 times:
Quoting ken777 (Reply 10): Who says Government is the only screwed up organization?
Of course not, just the one without anything more powerful than it to keep it in check.
Quoting ken777 (Reply 10): My Social Security was properly taken for a lot of years and is now properly being returned to me.
I hope that was a joke. Entitlement programs are the #1 long term problem for this country. Good luck to the middle aged baby boomers and those younger who expect to get anything back from SS.
Quoting ken777 (Reply 10): Heading to the airport in Orlando this morning at about 4:15 AM we could see the Endeavor launch from Kennedy this morning - spectacular even after having a 2:30 AM wake up call.
FlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4472 times:
Quoting ken777 (Reply 10): Or how does Toyota work for you these days?
Except Toyota has recalled their products to correct the issue and will do so in a far more efficient manner (and probably less costly way) than the government ever could, and without a knee jerk reaction to boot.
Quoting ken777 (Reply 10): Who says Government is the only screwed up organization?
Look how banks have been run during the last decade. Any reason for confidence there?
Who bailed out those banks?
That's the difference between the government and the private sector (or at least it should be). Portions of the private sector that are inefficient and operate in the red go under. In the government, inefficiency and red ink is rewarded with more money.
Quoting ken777 (Reply 10): Heading to the airport in Orlando this morning at about 4:15 AM we could see the Endeavor launch from Kennedy this morning - spectacular even after having a 2:30 AM wake up call. NASA hasn't been 100% successful, but this morning showed that it does take on huge projects and it (part of our government) does achieve.
Heh. Not for long if Obama gets his way. Bye-bye manned US space-flight.
No, instead we're going to focus that money on national healthcare and put it into a bureaucracy that is FAR WORSE than the bureaucracy that took 5 months just to schedule me one physical for ROTC so I can commission. 5 months for a physical. And I had to redo the paper work for it 5 different times because they first can't send me the right paperwork then want it done in hand so I do it by hand and then they decide they want it done electronically. Good thing I didn't have cancer. And this was the military side which overall tends to be slightly better than the civil service side.
newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 33 Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4465 times:
Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14): Toyota has recalled their products to correct the issue and will do so in a far more efficient manner
Because they have Honda right next to them ready to jump on their market share. Governments have no "Hondas" to keep them in line.
MoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4451 times:
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 12): Tell me, do you not notice that people are tired of these kinds of baseless statements and no one takes you seriously or is there some other reason, flamebait comes to mind.
You are free to think whatever you want, but the fact still remains, and has been the crux of the issue for decades as it's nothing new. Both sides suffer as a result.
In civic knowledge 71% Americans earn an F; as the average score was 49%. Ages 25 to 34 had an average score of 46%; ages 45 to 64 had a 52% average. Pretty pathetic, and there are dozens and dozens of other studies saying the exact same.
"While 56% can name Paula Abdul as a judge on American Idol, only 21% know that the phrase "government of the people, by the people, for the people" comes from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Just 54% can correctly identify a basic description of the free enterprise system".
Even Iowa caucus voters who are more informed than most because of the earliness of the campaign, and venue, self-admit they are woefully ignorant on the issues. When 1/3 to 1/2 admit on various key issues they need more info or haven't had enough as they vote. It's pretty shocking really.
newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 33 Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4445 times:
Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 16): In civic knowledge 71% Americans earn an F; as the average score was 49%. Ages 25 to 34 had an average score of 46%; ages 45 to 64 had a 52% average. Pretty pathetic, and there are dozens and dozens of other studies saying the exact same
I think before you blindly comment on the Australian Government running things smoothly you had better come and live here.
I can give you a list of examples as long as your arm of Government projects that are, well what can I say, they would be better run by pre schooler's.
There is a saying here down under, that the Government couldn't run a chook raffle !!
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5375 posts, RR: 47 Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4382 times:
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11): Good point, take a look at the efficiency of congress, there you have an answer.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4334 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6): However, the reason most of it hasn't gone into effect is that a variety of special interests from environmentalists, to NIMBYS and local governments have thrown up so many roadblocks the plan simply can't move forward.
This is true. Too much attention is given to the NIMBY and other special interests in this country. We need to have a system that is less run by special interests. But how?
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 18):
I think before you blindly comment on the Australian Government running things smoothly you had better come and live here.
Spent some time there and many of your systems seem to run better than ours. For a country of 21M living on a land mass 75% of the Continental US, you have a very developed and high-functioning country. You have universal healthcare and extensive public transit in every major city.
AirStairs From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4326 times:
Quoting DL021 (Reply 1): I think that the government often attracts as employees people who don't thrive in the private sector and cherish the bureaucracy and byzantine machinations of the leviathan from which it's next to impossible to be fired.
Absolutely. I've read articles of "civil servants" who were paid to "come to work" and sit in the basement all day, because their performance was dismal but it would cost more to fire them than to keep them on the payroll.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5): Part of it is simply a matter of scale. Once you get beyond a few million people, a few tens of millions at the outside, you start getting increasing inefficiencies.
Quoting ken777 (Reply 10): Look how banks have been run during the last decade. Any reason for confidence there?
Uhh...record profits?
Quoting newark777 (Reply 13): I hope that was a joke. Entitlement programs are the #1 long term problem for this country. Good luck to the middle aged baby boomers and those younger who expect to get anything back from SS.
Absolutely. The entitlements have got to go or we are going to continue our long and slow descent into economic mediocrity.
OzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2614 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4315 times:
Quoting DL021 (Reply 1): Our founding fathers set up the government in a way that guaranteed inefficiency and a devolution to the lowest common denominator....on purpose. They feared efficient government more than anything else. Most efficient organizations are very controlling of their subjects and don't brook dissension or objection easily or gladly, and they'd had some recent experience with a government that wanted to efficiently control them as was common elsewhere (look at the East India Company as an efficient organization, relatively speaking).
They why are Americans the most paranoid and fearful of their government of all the countries mentioned and why do they most of all lament the loss of their freedom to government infringements on civil rights?
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5): Part of it is simply a matter of scale. Once you get beyond a few million people, a few tens of millions at the outside, you start getting increasing inefficiencies. No organization in human history has managed to work efficiently with 300 million "customers" and 2.2 million employees in a monopoly structure.
The EU pariament and administration is by no means the most streamlined organization, but it gets quite a lot done in terms of public infrastructure and regulation with a population much bigger than the US (approx 500 million).
There seems to be a compulsive making of excuses for the situation in the US...
Why do so many Americans instinctively retreat into 'exceptionalism' whenever there is a suggestion that things are not working as they should? There seems to be an almost religious confidence that things are always just as they 'should be' in the US and any examples from other countries are a priori inadmissible in a land that has no peer, no counterpart and can learn nothing from the others who must necessarily be in a less evolved state, on their journey to becoming a little version of the US.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4313 times:
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 22):
Why do so many Americans instinctively retreat into 'exceptionalism' whenever there is a suggestion that things are not working as they should? There seems to be an almost religious confidence that things are always just as they 'should be' in the US and any examples from other countries are a priori inadmissible in a land that has no peer, no counterpart and can learn nothing from the others who must necessarily be in a less evolved state, on their journey to becoming a little version of the US.
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4285 times:
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 22): The EU pariament and administration is by no means the most streamlined organization, but it gets quite a lot done in terms of public infrastructure and regulation with a population much bigger than the US (approx 500 million).
To be fair the EU parliament has a limited scope of influence compared to the US Congress. The EU Parliament itself cannot even propose a new law, it just rejects and accepts the Commission. Nevermind the fact that the US Congress through Congressional Commitees and Subcommitees oversees such things as the biggest military machine in the world, the whole US automotive market, budget spending for 300 million people, banking and housing, Foreign-policy legislation, All the commitees in the EU Parliament do is aide and guide the Comission which in itself doesnt even have power to influence directly alot of the things that US Congress does.
Apples to Oranges really. Its a much different setup.
25 TheCommodore: Yes your correct about universal healthcare system and a VERY good one at that. We also have, in most cities a good public transport network, however
26 newark777: The current Greece/Portugal/Spain debt crisis shows, however, the limit of this EU influence. You can only do so much when each member is still a sov
27 Baroque: Excellent part of a great post texan. ÃÂÃÂ ÃÂÃÂ Oh dear Ken, you will get the "bad boy, go stand in the corner" treatment for
28 MoltenRock: Keep in mind much of the debt incurred in Greece was for worthless stadiums and sports arenas built under guise of "build it and they will come" snak
29 MD11Engineer: This is why several EU countries, which are in financial difficulties (mainly Greece, but Portugal Spain, Ireland and to a certain extend, France) ha
30 OzGlobal: Last time I checked a number of US states were actually bankrupt or otherwise basket cases. California comes to mind... "You can only do so much when
31 ken777: As long as the financial sector continues to pour money into political "contributions" I'll consider them more powerful. It wasn't a joke when my FIC
32 AverageUser: The Chinese central government springs to my mind here.
33 seb146: I have always thought their greatest fear was a monarchy and a small group of clueless people ruling a very large mass of people. British forces, und
34 Dreadnought: If you want to have the living standards and freedoms of the average Chinese person, be my guest.
35 planespotting: The main reason our government is so inefficient and slow is the same reason it takes a really long time to rebuild a large section of interstate high
36 Par13del: That is the point, the US as a country was created as such, the EU was created long after the US, why would they choose to have the same model which
37 WarRI1: I must say, that is an excellent point which describes CONgress very well. They live up to it very well. In fact, they have a few who fit the slang t
38 Lufthansa411: Coming of age during the last decade, I will always remember reading the book "Founding Brothers" about the founding fathers of the US. Even though th
39 AverageUser: At least they seem to be improving ... and gaining status in the world meanwhile.
40 AGM100: Why ? My opinion ... in our free-market system if you are a skilled ,freethinking, upwardly mobile person ... you own a company or work for a good com
41 PPVRA: It was not really a pilot program because that software already exists - it's what is offered by the tax firms who were protesting the government com
42 thegreatRDU: True but which politician would dare do such a move....
43 newark777: No matter where it came from, they still have to figure out a solution somehow. I would imagine Germany and other larger EU economies would bail them
44 OzGlobal: Hey, Greece signed up to the EU and the Eurozone because they thought it would serve their interests and make them richer. When you join a club to ge
45 newark777: Trust me, I'm not defending Greece, they're a bunch of incompetents. I was just trying to discuss the difference between Greece and CA. There was an
46 EA772LR: I'd say firstly, CORRUPTION has infected every part of the system to where votes are bought, and laws mean nothing when a large enough sum of money is
47 ken777: And how many hundreds of billions did they end up getting in bail out dollars? And how protective have the politicians been when it comes to minimizi
48 newark777: I'm not going to go back and forth with this, but basically they both influence each other, but only the government can tell corporations what to do
49 ken777: If you're in the 21-25 age bracket you want to "reform" it. If you're in the 65+ age bracket you're finally happy that you made in your payments and
50 TheCommodore: I'm not as sure as you seem to be that the Pollies have the mental ability to make policies on climate, far to complicated for them I believe. Some o
51 PPVRA: Yeah, make sure it doesn't get stolen, otherwise you won't have any money to pay back the taxes you owe on that benefit! Talk about a liability
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