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Execution Of 3 Of Bali 9 - Election Issue  
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1813 times:

Bali executions bad for Rudd, says embassy
TOM ALLARD HERALD CORRESPONDENT IN JAKARTA
February 18, 2010
pg1pdf

Myuran Sulumaran, Scott Rush and Andrew Chan.

AUSTRALIAN embassy officials in Jakarta have told Indonesian authorities the possible executions of three of the Bali Nine is a highly sensitive issue for the Rudd government in an election year.


http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-exe...dd-says-embassy-20100217-oe2f.html

That is about as bad as it reads. Knocking them off would be OK if only it was not an election year. Oh bloody dear!

What were Howard and then Rudd thinking about baying for Amrosi's blood? And even worse what was Keelty (head of our Federal Police) doing delivering the Bali nine into Indonesian hands when the father of one of the nine was the primary source of the information that they had a drug run planned.

If they do shoot the three of the Bali nine, would they please line up Howard, Rudd and Keelty at the same time. Might be a bit hard on Rudd there, not sure he was opposition leader at the time. Beasley would make a better target! After all, they do get shot in the middle of the night.

And how choice to execute them after letting Tommy Suharto go free after a short spell in clink for arranging the murder of a judge he did not like!!!

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7038 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
That is about as bad as it reads. Knocking them off would be OK if only it was not an election year. Oh bloody dear!

Come on, the Bali 9 were guilty, in Indo you get the ultimate punishment for drug running, anyone stupid enough to try and run drugs into Indo especially an Aussie after the Corby case deserves whatever they get.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1785 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
That is about as bad as it reads. Knocking them off would be OK if only it was not an election year. Oh bloody dear!

Come on, the Bali 9 were guilty, in Indo you get the ultimate punishment for drug running, anyone stupid enough to try and run drugs into Indo especially an Aussie after the Corby case deserves whatever they get.

I think you are missing the point. The executions have become controversial in some minds because this is an election year. The implication is that if it were NOT an election year, it would be just fine.

You also seem to miss the point that left to their own devices it seems that the Indonesian authorities would not have caught them. That required a tip off from our Fed police, and how did they know, why the father of Scott Rush rang them up and aked them to they try to stop his son from going on a drug run to Bali. I cannot find an immediate reference, but IIRC he was assured on this point.

Now you might think that it is just fine to send them off and ensure they are caught, but oddly enough some dissent is to be found on this point.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7038 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
why the father of Scott Rush rang them up and aked them to they try to stop his son from going on a drug run to Bali.

I bet he regrets what he did, even though he did the right thing.


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6751 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
If they do shoot the three of the Bali nine, would they please line up Howard, Rudd and Keelty at the same time.

Of the three, based on what you wrote, Keelty should go first or the last after seeing the other two shot...   

Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
Beasley would make a better target!

Yeah, harder to miss!

Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
You also seem to miss the point that left to their own devices it seems that the Indonesian authorities would not have caught them.

Funny eh? "Would you catch them for me, but NOT punish them according to your laws?" Sounds real crazy!

One thing we have in common as neighbours... we're both crazy!



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
That required a tip off from our Fed police, and how did they know, why the father of Scott Rush rang them up and aked them to they try to stop his son from going on a drug run to Bali. I cannot find an immediate reference, but IIRC he was assured on this point.


It's reported here.... I wonder who made the decision and why?

His death sentence has attracted controversy because Australian Federal Police reneged on a promise to his father, Lee Rush, to stop the then teenager travelling to Bali. Instead, the police steered him into a trap knowing he could face execution under Indonesia's drug laws.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ren...ution/story-e6frf7jo-1225817980581



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlinetbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Very interesting indeed. Seems like a purely political move if the effort to stop the executions are to help in reelection.

The real discussion from the Australians should be on the immorality (IMO) of the death penalty and having a just sentence for the accused, no matter how awful their crime was.

BTW, does Australia have the death penalty?



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

Quoting tbar220 (Reply 6):
BTW, does Australia have the death penalty?

No.



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

Quoting tbar220 (Reply 6):
The real discussion from the Australians should be on the immorality (IMO) of the death penalty and having a just sentence for the accused, no matter how awful their crime was.

We need to remember and respect other countries laws, at all times, not just when it suits us to.

In respect to the death penalty, well they were trafficking heroin and willing themselves to kill god only knows how many with the heroin they were peddling. Remember that!



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 4):
Funny eh? "Would you catch them for me, but NOT punish them according to your laws?" Sounds real crazy!

One thing we have in common as neighbours... we're both crazy!

We can certainly agree there Mandala and we both know some of the special crazinesses of each other, but speaking for Australia, we would be a heck of a lot worse off without there being an Indonesia.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 5):
It's reported here.... I wonder who made the decision and why?

His death sentence has attracted controversy because Australian Federal Police reneged on a promise to his father, Lee Rush, to stop the then teenager travelling to Bali. Instead, the police steered him into a trap knowing he could face execution under Indonesia's drug laws.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ren...ution/story-e6frf7jo-1225817980581

Thanks, that is exactly the way I remembered it. As to who made the decision and why, you have to assume it was a guy called Murphy. Keelty (note Mandala's comment)

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 4):
Of the three, based on what you wrote, Keelty should go first or the last after seeing the other two shot..

had a good reputation here until the Corby case got under way. Then he made some very strange statements of certainty that he should not have made and suggested he knew more than he ever admitted in public. In particular, his comments could have indicated he knew more than was told of the allegations of baggage stacking at Brisbane and Sydney airports which was Corby's line of defence.

When you put those statements up against the story with the Rush family (including as oly720man reports) what should have been a cast iron agreement, it is impossible to know who did what and why overall.

A rather serious case of snatching - indeed manufacturing - a defeat out of a potential victory.

The other issue that has me hot under the collar is that Australia should never have offered advice to Indonesia about the punishment to be given to the Bali bombers. That is the point at which this sage advice should have been heeded.

Me I prefer the joke about NZ migration to Aus, well known for raising the IQ in both countries!!

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
We need to remember and respect other countries laws, at all times, not just when it suits us to.
Quoting tbar220 (Reply 6):
BTW, does Australia have the death penalty?

As has been said "no" but for the most part it is a very emphatic "NO". So the gratuitous advice about the fate of Amrosi was hypocritical in the extreme as well as being totally stupid. Even blind Freddie must have been able to see that there would come a time when they would argue the other way.

And what if the Indonesians had gone around shooting all of those implicated in the Bali bombing? It appears that they were able to successfully turn quite a few JI "enthusiasts" who turned into a potent force AGAINST JI.

It is about time Australian politics stopped viewing the end of the week as medium term policy and the next election as long term planning.

Thanks for the posts guys, a nice sensible and productive discussion.

BTW, if the heroin were used in association with the supervised drug injecting room in Sydney (the one that Rome told some super nuns they were not allowed to be associated with) then the record shows that the heroin would have been associated with zero deaths. And if we had a nationwide set of injecting rooms, we could probably stop heroin overdose deaths altogether. Not that I know, never to my knowledge taken a non pharmaceutical drug and as I cannot stand needles, I am hardly a candidate for heroin by injection!! Just yesterday, She Who Must be Obeyed had to have a blood test and I went in as back up translator and nearly fainted at the sight of her having her blood taken!!

Our pollies keep on telling us we can become a clever country, well apart from the incredible hubris of the slogan, how about starting at drug policies???????

Me, I prefer the joke about migration from NZ to Aus raising the IQ in both countries.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8439 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

Quoting tbar220 (Reply 6):
Seems like a purely political move if the effort to stop the executions are to help in reelection.

It is. Every Australian knows, the government knows, that his request will fall on deaf ears. All our requests for stays of execution in the past have been ignored, so why should this be any different? Rudd just wants to be seen as doing something.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 5):
It's reported here.... I wonder who made the decision and why?

Probably lack of communication. AFP have made some blunders over past few years and are paying for it now with reduced staff, budgets etc.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 10):
All our requests for stays of execution in the past have been ignored, so why should this be any different? Rudd just wants to be seen as doing something.

AFAIK, this issue has not arisen before for Indonesia - well except if you count the reverse with Amrosi and friends where our pollies were out for blood as long as it was Indonesian blood. But it has worked in Vietnam IIRC with Presidential commutations being given
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/how...uad/2006/02/17/1140151815891.html.

For a 2005 (thus dated) explanation of some aspects of the Bali Nine and what the AFP should have done see:
http://www.nswccl.org.au/docs/pdf/cpu3.pdf


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6751 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 9):
we would be a heck of a lot worse off without there being an Indonesia.

Well, you guys won't know when to put on the brakes !    We're the insanity cap for you guys! Bwahahaha!

Quoting Baroque (Reply 9):
In particular, his comments could have indicated he knew more than was told of the allegations of baggage stacking at Brisbane and Sydney airports which was Corby's line of defence.

All I can say on this publicly is that, "yes, he probably knows more than what was told."



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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