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So I May Buy A Hybrid Tomorrow. Wait. What?  
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2512 times:

A little background info:

In 2008, I moved up to Reno, Nevada. Upon moving up here, I decided it would be beneficial to purchase a vehicle with all wheel drive. At the time, I drove a 2006 Ford Taurus which was payed off. So I purchased a 2008 Ford Fusion with all wheel drive. However, it has occurred to me that the $260 monthly payment is no longer worth it in my eyes. The past two winters, I have only really needed the all wheel drive a couple of times. So, for every month I paid $260, I could have saved that and just rented a 4x4, purchased snow tires, or just dealt with the hassle of chains. In addition to that, I've been getting around 17 mpg since most of my driving is to and from work, which is an in-town drive. Maybe I was spoiled owning my previous car, but I just can't seem to justify the cost of driving my Fusion any further. Being so, I have had my eyes open lately for some good deals, and one may just fit the bill...

Honda is offering a new lease special on the Insight. 36 months 36,000 miles for $219 a month. Furthermore, they are making your first payment and only require about ~ $300 down. It's only a $40/month savings, but the gas mileage around down is estimated at 40 mpg. More than double what I currently get. Since I'm still living on a budget, this is extremely appealing to me.

However, I've never been one to give two shits about a hybrid. In fact, I simply love the Jetta TDi. I've always had more interest in diesels than hybrids. I also don't really care for the reputation that comes with owning one, simply because I wouldn't fall into that category. It will also be a tough adjustment going from two V6 vehicles to a little hybrid.

Lastly, for reference, I owe right about what the Fusion is worth, so I worry that this may be a good chance to get away from it before I go underneath with the depreciation and all.

So, wonderful and enlightened a.net members, (even you LOT) what say you about this situation? I'm all ears.


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

I am very fond of turbo diesels. I am not sure what is available there but I would test drive a few cars FIRST. I think you might find the insight boring?


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinehoons90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 3005 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2477 times:
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CHAT OPERATOR

I drive a 2010 Insight that I have had since August of 2009, and I haven't had any significant problems with it. I'm impressed with the mileage (around 41mpg-ish), which can be improved even further with the Econ mode. You don't have to spend too much filling it up, and once you do, it will take you very far. The downsides are that some of the parts might be rather expensive (remember that the Insight isn't as ubiquitous as the Civic) and also that it has an annoyingly large blind spot.


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19494 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Quoting JetsGo (Thread starter):

Honda is offering a new lease special on the Insight. 36 months 36,000 miles for $219 a month. Furthermore, they are making your first payment and only require about ~ $300 down. It's only a $40/month savings, but the gas mileage around down is estimated at 40 mpg. More than double what I currently get. Since I'm still living on a budget, this is extremely appealing to me.

You will be floored at the fuel savings. I have a 2010 Prius and I commute 40 miles to work every day. I fill my tank once weekly. That's it. $30/wk. My average mileage is 45-49MPG. It does fall off on city driving if you have a lot of stop-and-go, contrary to what it's "supposed" to do.

As far as the "reputation," I drive a 4-door sedan that uses about 40% of the fuel of other cars in its size. If you want to judge me for that, you can blow it out of whichever orifice you like.

Power both is and isn't an issue. The electric start motor gives you some good movement off the line, although you get a "kick" about 0.5s later once the gas engine starts up. I'm renting a Ford Escape right now for a trip to Tahoe (non-hybrid) and there's a much worse delay than that off the line on that car.

The downside is the maintenance. It's got to be done at an authorized place, and those can be hard to find. Hybrids are hideously complex and the maintenance is more expensive than it is for a regular car. However, I calculate that the fuel savings more than make up for it.


User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 1):
I am very fond of turbo diesels.

  

However, VW seems to be ripping off the Reno market. For example, a simple Golf TDI they want roughly 28k. Can't imagine what the Jetta would be...if they even had one. Probably not as good a deal as the Insight.  
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 1):
I think you might find the insight boring?

Very concerned about that. However, living on a budget I feel my priorities should maybe be more in line?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
As far as the "reputation," I drive a 4-door sedan that uses about 40% of the fuel of other cars in its size. If you want to judge me for that, you can blow it out of whichever orifice you like.

I'm going more towards the slow and generally stupid driver. Not accusing you of that, but I can't tell you how many dangerous hybrid drivers I've run into. Extremely frustrating.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Power both is and isn't an issue. The electric start motor gives you some good movement off the line, although you get a "kick" about 0.5s later once the gas engine starts up.

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure it won't touch the power of my Fusion, so it will be an adjustment.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
The downside is the maintenance. It's got to be done at an authorized place, and those can be hard to find.

Are we talking just normal service intervals? How much are they typically and how often? Also, you mention authorized places are hard to find...are not all Honda dealers authorized?



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2393 times:

Oh dear god. Hehe.

Points which are apparent:

-You only need to go from A to B.
-You dont care about the car as long as it gets you there.

To tell you the truth I really dont know your budget or what you do and can afford. Ive never leased a car before and always pay cash. I never keep my cars stock and dont like the constraints of any kind of lease and like to have the title in my hand.

Im not a fan of anything that doesnt have AWD in the regular car segment unless you only drive it in the summer time. IMHO you cant put a price on safety and ability in every kind of weather.

I fail to understand your logic, no matter what car it is. Why not buy a used car, save money and not overpay and make some payments and own it outright. Instead of constantly making lease payments.

I wont talk about power as a car like that only has power to a person that hasnt driven a car with normal power. No matter what catchy phrase you use or do will not defy the physics of a small motor. Ever since my ex-gf couldnt avoid a major rear-end collision in her Civic in High School because she didnt have enough power to get away when she was trying with me as a witness my philosophy completely changed on the cost benefit of having decent specs.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
You will be floored at the fuel savings. I have a 2010 Prius and I commute 40 miles to work every day. I fill my tank once weekly. That's it. $30/wk. My average mileage is 45-49MPG. It does fall off on city driving if you have a lot of stop-and-go, contrary to what it's "supposed" to do.

As far as the "reputation," I drive a 4-door sedan that uses about 40% of the fuel of other cars in its size. If you want to judge me for that, you can blow it out of whichever orifice you like.

Yes, im really not sure what you are talking about here as any decent Diesel will get better mileage than a Prius.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):
Are we talking just normal service intervals? How much are they typically and how often? Also, you mention authorized places are hard to find...are not all Honda dealers authorized?

A dealer by definition is always authorized as they are under the manufacturer umbrella. He is talking about Honda authorized non-dealer centers. What he means is you cant just stroll into Joes 4x4 where labor is 1/2 price of a ripoff dealer.

You are either debating this because you are short on money and you barely drive, or you are debating this because you are plain stupid. From what it sounds like its the 1st option, if its the 1st option I think you should probably give up the Fusion if you are short on cash and NOTHING else matters.

Over 3 years youd spend about $5400 @ 20mpg for gas in the Fusion with 36k miles (thats a low estimate).
Over 3 years youd spend about $2700 @ 40mpg for gas in the Insight with 36k miles.

Over 3 years youd spend about $9360 @ 36 x 260 for a Fusion
Over 3 years youd spend about $8000 @ 35 x 220 + 300 for an Insight.

Figure about a $4000 difference over the period of 3 years, or about $1330 per year of difference. This however is assuming nothing goes wrong with the Insight which has a proprietary Hybrid drive and you cant just go fixing it anywhere but at an Authorized center.

Everyone buys cars on some criteria which is more important than any other. For me I dont care about MPG at all. But I take sacrifices at the pump and with even regular maintenance. Look at how much yearly maintenance I have to do in a SUV where I put in around 30k yearly (and I do almost all the labor myself) but lets assume the average joe doesnt know how to or hasnt the time to do it.

Champion Copper Spark Plugs + labor -> 16 @ 2.20 + $120 in labor = $135
5 Quarts of 75W140 Full Synthetic Gear Oil front and rear differentials + labor -> $60 oil + $140 labor = $200
8OZ (2x4OZ) LSD Friction Modifier bottles only Mopar -> $18
NV245 Transfer Case Oil only Mopar + Labor -> $70
Set of 4 Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10 or BFG MT tires per year -> $600
Oil Change 5W20 only, synthetic, Mobil1 @ 7.5QTS + change -> 70 x 6 per year = $420
Coolant Flush (1 per year as I tow), only takes HOAT, Valvoline Zerex G-05 15QTS + labor = $140
ATF change per 2 years (tow schedule), ATF+4 @ 7qts + labor -> $220 / 2 years = $110 per year
Brakes change per 12 months (ceramics pads, slotted/drilled rotors + labor at Mexicans or Polaks for cash not tax) -> $500
Shocks, Bilstein B6/HD x 4 every 2 years = $350 + $120 labor = $470 / 2 years = $285

Thats probably some $2300-$2500 I do in scheduled maintenance in a SUV just to keep it in good shape if nothing goes wrong, which it doesnt because its a Yank tank and if it does I fix it myself anyways. I do most of that myself except from the front diff and shocks because I dont have a special key and spring load for it but figure about $2000 or so just for necessary oil and parts. Nevermind the fact that I average 13-14mpg highway city.

Point im trying to make is that most people would cry if they had to buy around $2000 worth of various oils, plugs, shocks etc for their car per year but for me that is a small price to pay as I cant be screwing around with a bunch of uncapable idiotic crap that some dumbass Honda dealer is trying to shove down my throat.

Either you have a car, or you have a soul-less appliance, you cant have both JetsGo. Even with a diesel you have alternate costs, I have one of those too so I know, youve got expensive oil changes, youve got ultra expensive glow plugs that like to go to the crapper when it gets really cold etc.


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2383 times:

Quoting JetsGo (Thread starter):
I owe right about what the Fusion is worth, so I worry that this may be a good chance to get away from it before I go underneath with the depreciation and all.

OK, so you have too high of a payment and don't need all-wheel drive. How about a new Ford Fiesta? Low cost, high mileage (about 40 mpg highway) and front-wheel drive. Or a Honda Fit if a five-door hatchback is fine with you? Or maybe even a Fusion Hybrid sedan if you like your current Fusion enough and you can work out a deal with the local Ford dealership?



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 2354 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 6):
OK, so you have too high of a payment and don't need all-wheel drive. How about a new Ford Fiesta? Low cost, high mileage (about 40 mpg highway) and front-wheel drive. Or a Honda Fit if a five-door hatchback is fine with you? Or maybe even a Fusion Hybrid sedan if you like your current Fusion enough and you can work out a deal with the local Ford dealership?

How about he just waits till say next summer and gets the new 2012 Focus. No more US specific frame but full Global frame-same-as-in-Europe. Great quality, probably a great price and great economics.

Wont have to sacrifice your balls and you wont be beaten by a garbage truck at the light either. A win win situation.


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 7):
Wont have to sacrifice your balls and you wont be beaten by a garbage truck at the light either. A win win situation

Haha, not a big fan of hybrids either. I have a Citroen C4 diesel (about the size of a Golf, ever so slightly bigger though) that gives me at least 18 km for every litre, which is about 42mpg. And it has plenty of power too (110 hp) for that frame. I also prefer diesel. And none of the expensive proprietary parts as in hybrids.

And my mileage comes from mostly commuter traffice with plenty of traffice jams that wreac havoc on your mileage. On longer drives, I easily get 47 mpg.

PSA diesel engines are known to be very good and very economical.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 8):
And it has plenty of power too (110 hp) for that frame. I also prefer diesel. And none of the expensive proprietary parts as in hybrids.

You must understand that Diesel fuel is generally more expensive in the USA. Also, a C4 Diesel (unless you get a top of the line one) with a 10.4s sprint to 100kmh and 110hp is weaker and slower than a Prius.

Thirdly the hybrid systems are usually on some long warranty whereas the diesels are not. If something goes kaput in a diesel you are pretty much F'ed beyond belief in your wallet. For example those batteries in California are under warranty for something like 10 years / 150k miles.

Personally id take a Diesel, hell nevermind that, I have a diesel in Europe. That being said, its got the most annoying turbo lag ever (idiotic Italian design) and its being replaced.


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 9):
You must understand that Diesel fuel is generally more expensive in the USA.

True, I noticed that. Whereas over here, it's much cheaper (or less expensive) than regular.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 9):
with a 10.4s sprint to 100kmh and 110hp is weaker and slower than a Prius

The tests I read have them on par with each other. I don't have a top of the line (I have the Berline mind you, not a Picasso), but a 1.6litre engine.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 9):
its got the most annoying turbo lag ever

Thankfully I don't have that problem.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2298 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
It does fall off on city driving if you have a lot of stop-and-go, contrary to what it's "supposed" to do.

That's weird. You should have it looked at.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure it won't touch the power of my Fusion, so it will be an adjustment.

Different aspects of cars make them fun to drive. The Insight will probably handle better in the dry, so take advantage.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 5):
Figure about a $4000 difference over the period of 3 years, or about $1330 per year of difference. This however is assuming nothing goes wrong with the Insight which has a proprietary Hybrid drive and you cant just go fixing it anywhere but at an Authorized center.

Moot point. Car is a 3 year lease and will be maintained under warranty.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 9):

You must understand that Diesel fuel is generally more expensive in the USA

The difference has flattened again. Definitely not like a year or two ago.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Moot point. Car is a 3 year lease and will be maintained under warranty.

Reza WTH, I said regular maintenance not warranty covered problems.

Is it a figment of my imagination or arent you even charged for worn tires if you return them as such?

You believe that if you lease a car with a diff that needs a diff oil change every year and you dont do one after 3 years, return it, the diff whines, they open it up and its got the coloration of a tar pit they wont charge you for it?

Comeon man im not talking about blown ECUs here.

BTW, dont ever use the word moot again...you sound like a Prius driver trying to talk me into buying a pile of garbage. 
Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
The difference has flattened again. Definitely not like a year or two ago.

How do you know where gas prices will be in 1 year, 2 years or 3 years. Weve gone from 30 oil to 140 oil back down to 30 oil and up to 80 oil.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 12):
I said regular maintenance not warranty covered problems.

Scheduled MX on the Insight is relatively minor. Also, they have a 1/12,000 warranty for wear parts.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 12):

Is it a figment of my imagination or arent you even charged for worn tires if you return them as such?

That is a figment of your imagination.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 12):

BTW, dont ever use the word moot again...you sound like a Prius driver trying to talk me into buying a pile of garbage.

No need to talk you into buying a pile of garbage. You already own American cars.  



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
That is a figment of your imagination.

Perhaps you can clue me in about this:

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto...ing-your-car-lease-gracefully.aspx

Tire wear is particularly important. Don't bring the car in with less than one-eighth of an inch of tread, or with mismatched tires. If you do, you'll find yourself charged for a new set of tires.

http://www.fordcredit.com/redcarpetlease/rcl_lep_wear_use.jhtml

http://www.hondafinancialservices.com/pdf/Damage_Card.pdf

I'm not an English expert but I believe what it says there is that if you have worn tires: Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
No need to talk you into buying a pile of garbage. You already own American cars.

1. My cars were made under Daimler ownership, I have quality German electronics. (Not really, the Siemens trigger sensors for example are the biggest pain ever known to mankind)
2. Ill take my pile of garbage over that pile of garbage. Anyday, anytime, anywhere.
3. You laugh now, but its the BMW owners that I pull out of snowed out ditches that sing a different song.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Scheduled MX on the Insight is relatively minor. Also, they have a 1/12,000 warranty for wear parts.

So why buy that when isnt it Ford that has a 2 year / 24k scheduled maintenance plan?


User currently offlineasuflyer05 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2371 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Just make sure you're okay with no cruise control or stability control.

User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 5):
Ive never leased a car before and always pay cash.

Neither have I. I'm considering it though because honestly I'd like to be in a new car every few years.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 5):
Instead of constantly making lease payments.

I should've clarified earlier. I don't exactly mind paying monthly for a car... as long as I enjoy it and get some kind of value or satisfaction out of it. My Fusion sucks gas and only delivers mild performance in doing so. To me, that is a waste.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 5):
What he means is you cant just stroll into Joes 4x4 where labor is 1/2 price of a ripoff dealer

I figured, however I would never take my car to one of those places either.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 5):
From what it sounds like its the 1st option, if its the 1st option I think you should probably give up the Fusion if you are short on cash and NOTHING else matters.

Again, it's not so much that I am short on cash, just more that I don't see the value anymore. To me, my Fusion is not worth $260/month and 17 mpg. I feel that a) I can go cheap with the Insight or at least b) have more of a car for the same price. As you can see by this thread, I'm leaning towards a.

Quoting asuflyer05 (Reply 15):
Just make sure you're okay with no cruise control or stability control.

The EX version has cruise control and traction control. The LX is just too cheap.



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4489 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):

Hey Doc, as a fellow long-commuter, I'd be interested in knowing--have you asked anyone or heard anything specifically about the battery life in your Prius? How long do you envision keeping it (i.e., how many miles do you think you'll rack up on it before you're done)?

The longevity issue is important to me, and I'm leery of switching to a hybrid in light of current battery technology. My TSX is a year and a half old and I've clocked over 70,000 miles in it. Buying a new car every 100k miles would get expensive after awhile. As it is, I average 32mpg in my four-banger 200hp conventional car, which isn't bad--though it takes premium gas. I'd hate to have to replace the massively expensive battery pack in a hybrid even once while owning the car, I think...

Although if the tech is pretty rugged, a Tesla Model S in a few years with the 300-mile battery pack would be more than sufficient....  



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

So for the record, I ended up purchasing a 2010 Honda Civic EX sedan. I just wasn't ready for the Insight/hybrid thing. Got a great deal on it, love it so far. Pictures to follow...


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlinedw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 18):
I ended up purchasing a 2010 Honda Civic EX sedan.

Congrats. A good choice, especially if you got a sweet deal! Overall costs of ownership will probably be on par with a Prius, but without giving up your manhood...

In all seriousness, though I'm hardly an environmentalist, I see that a hybrid makes lots of sense for some people. Having rented them a few times I'm not a fan, but some Prius drivers are shrewd consumers. Sadly, they often get lumped in with very vocal left-wing wacko drive a hybrid or die crowd...



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 18):
So for the record, I ended up purchasing a 2010 Honda Civic EX sedan.

Oh god. I drove a Civic Si extensively and it was ghastly, can't imagine the vanilla version to be any better. The door makes a nasty "twang" sound when you close it and the rear spoiler rattled in the slightest bumps. To add insult to injury, has no balls and pathetic handling. And this is a "sporty car"  

But with that being said...

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 18):
Got a great deal on it, love it so far.

At least if floats your boat. That's what matters in the end.


PS: Should've gone for a Jetta TDI!!!    


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15723 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 1):
I think you might find the insight boring?

If you don't find the Insight (or any Toyota for that matter) boring, there may be something wrong with you.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 9):
You must understand that Diesel fuel is generally more expensive in the USA.

That is true, but of course the savings make up for it. It may also be a bit hard to find (but seems to be getting better), especially in cities, so look around your neighborhood if you consider buying one.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14):
. You laugh now, but its the BMW owners that I pull out of snowed out ditches that sing a different song.

That is a problem with the driver, not the car.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1996 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 21):

That is true, but of course the savings make up for it. It may also be a bit hard to find (but seems to be getting better), especially in cities, so look around your neighborhood if you consider buying one.

No, it doesnt because the price usually negates the higher MPG.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 21):
That is a problem with the driver, not the car.

No, its not. Even the best driver cant make up for the crap X-Drive system. Youve got no 100% torque split to any one wheel, front or rear or left or right side and you have no locker or E-Lockers/ELSDs. You dont even have any center locking diff (read x-fer case with a decent low range).

Dont blame the driver for the craptastic X-Drive system which is blown out of the water by any decent SUV or Pickup 4x4 system.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 18):
So for the record, I ended up purchasing a 2010 Honda Civic EX sedan. I just wasn't ready for the Insight/hybrid thing. Got a great deal on it, love it so far. Pictures to follow...

I wanted to be friends but we just cant be so anymore.   

We dont want your photos   

Hehe


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15723 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1992 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 22):
No, it doesnt because the price usually negates the higher MPG.

The price difference fluctuates, and I haven't noted it in a while. Either way I don't want a half ton of batteries in my car.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 22):
Youve got no 100% torque split to any one wheel, front or rear or left or right side and you have no locker or E-Lockers/ELSDs. You dont even have any center locking diff (read x-fer case with a decent low range).

Plenty of people don't have any of this and do just fine. Not all four wheel drive systems are created equally, but having a good one is certainly not a prerequisite to driving safely in the winter time. An idiot with AWD (good or bad) is still an idiot.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 day ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
Plenty of people don't have any of this and do just fine. Not all four wheel drive systems are created equally, but having a good one is certainly not a prerequisite to driving safely in the winter time. An idiot with AWD (good or bad) is still an idiot.

What does this have to do with anything? All I said is I pull people with shitty AWD/4WD systems out of ditches. Theres a certain point where you can be the best driver in the world but if you have no decent 4x4 system youre in deep manure in bad weather. Skills only get you half way, your equipment gets you the other half.

Quit making excuses that BMW has garbage 4x4 systems, it aint your fault or my fault BMW decided to equip its cars with 4x4 systems that are outdone by a $25k Jeep Liberty with a Selec Trac II. You dont have to be off-roading for X-Drive to fail you, the system will do you no good even if one side of your car leaves the pavement and the other half is on a snowy road and more weight of your car is off the pavement.

Plenty of people have this problem, when there are snowstorms here or Im on a weekend in WI or MN I winch out and strap out probably 4-5 people per day outside of major cities where the plows dont come every 10 minutes. About 80-90% of them are in AWD crossovers or luxury SUVs who think they can go sing Kumbaya even with snow tires in shitty On-demand AWD that cant even transfer anywhere near close to 100% torque from side to side or front to rear. Nevermind locking or going into a 2.72:1 or whatever not you might have in a decent system.


25 dw747400 : In most cases, a diesel--when compared to a similar gas vehicle--will offer significant savings, even taking the higher price of diesel into account.
26 LOT767-300ER : It wont any significant value unless Diesel and Gas Price is the same or within a few cents. Youd have to drive a diesel car for probably 20-30 years
27 stasisLAX : Good purchase, IMHO. Excellent resale value and great reliability reputation.
28 BMI727 : And I bet that plenty of people with good AWD systems or 2WD end up in ditches as well. And did you ever bother to note how many of the BMWs with the
29 LOT767-300ER : What are you asking me? To take down statistics of how many BMWs are in ditches and how many arent? Get real man, how many years have you been in the
30 DocLightning : Good luck finding diesel in this country.
31 LOT767-300ER : Apparently my luck is better than yours. From model year 2005-2010 you have quite a few diesel cars to choose from. -Audi Q7 -Jeep Liberty -Jeep Gran
32 BMI727 : It is harder to find in cities, though it seems to be getting easier. But out here, it is pretty easy to find.
33 Post contains images Cadet57 : Sure is. atleast .25-.30 a gallon here. I'm paying less for 93 than my father is for diesel. I thought that too. But why throw money at a car that af
34 Post contains images JetsGo : I wish, but VW was a total rip off on their TDI's up here. A Golf TDI example...they wanted $28k and wouldn't budge. That's $10k more than my Civic.
35 Emirates773ER : Allow me to call out your BS right there. I own a BMW, a RWD 335i coupe, with proper snow tires and modded to high hell for a couple years now. I liv
36 N1120A : 1/8" of tread is nothing. Also, you can always get the cheapest Costco tires and call it a day. 1) It doesn't snow here 2) Stupidity knows no end Its
37 Post contains links and images LOT767-300ER : I would have given you a kidney and let you merge infront of me and even possibly let you take my parking space. Now If I see you I will make you hug
38 Post contains images Emirates773ER : That is why u need to buy a snow plower with your coupe in Lake effected snow areas
39 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : Or you can just attach a plow and rescue poor souls (for $$$ of course).
40 Post contains images FLY2HMO : The diesels have plenty of pull. More so than the 2.5L 5banger, and that's not exactly a weak engine to begin with might I add. In terms of performan
41 Post contains images Cadet57 : Yeah, you're out of your mind. I'll take snow any day
42 DocLightning : Wow, my old Jeep Cherokee got plowed in like that and I couldn't get it out. Tried and tried and tried. Sorry, but you need treads to get out of that
43 Post contains links N1120A : Around the time the first Prius came out, DaimlerChrysler (as they were called then, and I think they need to bring back the Benz in DaimlerBenz, giv
44 cptkrell : N1120A; well, I was going to keep just reading this thread with no further comments, but after a few adult beverages and your quote (Rep 43) , in part
45 N1120A : Read on. Goodwin has done significant work with standard diesel engines as well.
46 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : N1120As dream come true is a hydraulic hybrid garbage truck anyways
47 Post contains images 4holer : I know he bought a standard Honda, but no hybrid thread is complete without this...
48 Post contains links LOT767-300ER : Ive stumbled upon this: http://www.hypermilingforum.com/ Home to probably the most annoying people ever.
49 Lufthansa411 : I call total BS on that. My parents just bought a 2010 Jetta TDI and the maths come out to nothing like you just proposed. You forgot about all the t
50 BMI727 : I would guess that availability of diesel in California may be lagging somewhat due to the emissions rules. I think that diesel makes sense for many
51 Post contains links and images LOT767-300ER : First off, not everyone lives in NYS. Second of all give me proof on the $3000. The Federal tax credit for a Jetta is $1300. http://www.edmunds.com/f
52 Cadet57 : I'm not sure what you're laughing at. But it is true. The Prius gets *slightly* better numbers, but the TDI is a hell of a lot more practical, fun to
53 LOT767-300ER : Yes, I agree with you. Hence why I said: I think you will agree with me on that statement..[Edited 2010-02-23 10:24:36]
54 Post contains images Cadet57 : Thats what I get for not reading fully Indeed. However, I think VW also wants to try and grab market share by trying to appeal to someone who would h
55 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : Maybe. I dont know really, I would venture Id be a hard job to sell a diesel car to someone in the US that's not a pickup or from overseas. + I dont
56 Post contains images Cadet57 : For some, but i'm sold. I'm seriously considering an Audi A3 tdi or Jetta tdi. But I do see your point. For years diesel was always considered "dirty
57 Post contains links and images Lufthansa411 : http://taxes.about.com/od/deductions...qt/vehicle-sales-tax-deduction.htm This is the general information as I do not have the exact numbers in from o
58 LOT767-300ER : That is an expired tax deduction. In addition its not even a tax deduction that covers everyone. Better would have been to claim cash for clunkers if
59 Post contains links Lufthansa411 : Not when they purchased it, which was last November. Well, apparently VW disagrees, as they are marketing the Jetta TDI as a direct competitor to the
60 LOT767-300ER : Wouldnt help today. Sorry, didnt base my calculations on a past historical tax credit. Those always change, and right now its $1300 max, which at $11
61 Kent350787 : Such has been the marketing hype behind hybrids, that I tend to agree. People know that "hybrid=good" because of the media, and most can't be bothere
62 LOT767-300ER : Damn, I didnt even know they had Skoda in Ausland. Do they sell the Octavia LPG there? Or is LPG not popular at all?
63 Kent350787 : No, not the LPG. LPG is very popular for taxis here in Oz, with a good nationwide infrastructure, and we produce a lot of LPG ourselves, so it is com
64 bps3458 : I just got my Lexus RX 450H today. Even though it is a hybrid I am certain that I will still use up to 10 liters per 100 km (even though they tell you
65 stasisLAX : For years, in the U.S.- diesel powered cars were considered dirty, noisy, and (most of all) unreliable thanks to the GM diesel motors debacle of the
66 LOT767-300ER : The LPG conversions in Poland are really popular and theres several cars that come out of the factory with LPG. Per liter LPG is around $0.70USD so t
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