NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9078 posts, RR: 37 Posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1386 times:
It appears that Israeli assassins who recently killed a Hamas leader in Dubai travelled on fake passports in the names of real people living in Israel. So far it is known that six people of British origin, and three from Austraila, were used; and I believe that passports in the names of Israeli residents of other nationalities, including some from Ireland, were also faked.
Surely this utterly-thoughtless conduct amounts to a 'new low'? The worst thing about it is that, thanks to modern communications, the identities of all those people will now be on the watch lists of just about every police force and anti-terrorist organisation in the world.
So the damage can probably never be put right. It's already being suggested that the only thing that the unfortunate people concerned can do, if they ever want to travel again, is change their names.
JetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2964 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1361 times:
Where is your evidence they were Israeli? Besides media speculation? That's right, you don't have any. Maybe they were Israeli, maybe they weren't, but given that you and the media have no real evidence and no real knowledge/details of what even happened, I suggest everyone relax and wait for things to play out further.
From one of your links... AUSTRALIA yesterday warned Israel its standing as a friend would be jeopardised if it were found to have condoned the suspected theft of three Australian citizens' identities
flanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1332 times:
Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter): It appears that Israeli assassins who recently killed a Hamas leader in Dubai travelled on fake passports in the names of real people living in Israel.
Show me some proof that they were Israeli.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6276 posts, RR: 23 Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1329 times:
Quoting flanker (Reply 3): Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
It appears that Israeli assassins who recently killed a Hamas leader in Dubai travelled on fake passports in the names of real people living in Israel.
Show me some proof that they were Israeli.
See this:
Quoting Baroque (Reply 2): So tell us all who else would have access to passports of persons resident in Israel????
Deniability is supposed to be plausible you know.
Let's not be silly here. Never mind 'proof' - it's pretty obvious.
flanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1328 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4): Let's not be silly here. Never mind 'proof' - it's pretty obvious.
Salem Witch Trials of 1692
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1322 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4): Let's not be silly here. Never mind 'proof' - it's pretty obvious.
The interesting thing is what level of proof the likes of Milliband, Smith and all the others involved deem necessary. Cannot say I would like to be on their carpet trying to represent Israel as an innocent party. That would not be my idea of a first prize!! http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/26/2830764.htm
A former Mossad officer has alleged the Israeli spy agency has its own "passport factory" to create or doctor passports for use in intelligence operations.
Relations between Australia and Israel are under strain after three Australian passports were apparently used by suspects in the killing of top Hamas leader Mahmoud Al Mabhouh in Dubai last month.
Slightly better evidentiary basis than the case against the Salem witches one might say.
From Wiki Much, but not all, of the evidence used against the accused was spectral evidence, or the testimony of the afflicted who claimed to see the apparition or the shape of the person who was allegedly afflicting them. The theological dispute that ensued about the use of this evidence centered on whether a person had to give permission to the Devil for his/her shape to be used to afflict. Opponents claimed that the Devil was able to use anyone's shape to afflict people, but the Court contended that the Devil could not use a person's shape without that person's permission; therefore, when the afflicted claimed to see the apparition of a specific person, that was accepted as evidence that the accused had been complicit with the Devil.
Well there are some similarities to identity theft, but you are saying that the copies of the passports are the same as spectral evidence. I think you will find that Xerox-type copying (even though it nicked the process from Australia) by now is a firmly established process. The videos might be thought a bit more concrete than hearsay too. Has happened in many courts of law I understand.
qantas077 From China, joined Jan 2004, 5745 posts, RR: 49 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1323 times:
Quoting flanker (Reply 3): Show me some proof that they were Israeli.
well they don't deny it...so I guess its like this, Israel has a pretty shit secret service if they didn't know the passports were being doctored and the identities of people living in their country stolen, or the Mossad really was involved, take your pick.
a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4978 posts, RR: 25 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1307 times:
Quoting flanker (Reply 9): So they are not accepting the premise. I see nothing wrong with that. Plus whats the point, everyone is pointing fingers their way to begin with.
These were Israeli residents and this was a Mossad operation and you really want us to believe that it wasn't Israel who stole these people's identities?
flanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1268 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 10): These were Israeli residents and this was a Mossad operation and you really want us to believe that it wasn't Israel who stole these people's identities?
I am not saying they didn't do it. It would be in their best interest to carry out something like this.
All I am saying is wait till some more light is shed on this. I just think its a little cynical at the moment.
Its like when someone passes gas everyone points to the fat kid in the room.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 60 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1202 times:
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 13): do you honestly believe they were not Israeli?
Hope you are not holding yr breath waiting for an honest answer though EZEIZA. Do you not know that I is awash with Fatah agents grabbing passports from third countries to be used for nefarious activities. They are even clever enough to plant articles like this one: http://www.smh.com.au/national/israe...ssports-exagent-20100226-p8om.html Israeli spy agency Mossad regularly faked Australian passports: ex-agent
....
Ostrovsky said Mossad had a "very, very expensive research department" dedicated to manufacturing the fake documents which simulates different types of paper and ink.
"If they create a passport at a top level for use of that nature... I don't think anybody will be able to find the difference," he said,
Damned clever those Fatah, or was it Hamas???, folk.
It is six hours plus since this question was asked.
Quoting qantas077 (Reply 8): Quoting flanker (Reply 3):
Show me some proof that they were Israeli.
well they don't deny it...so I guess its like this, Israel has a pretty shit secret service if they didn't know the passports were being doctored and the identities of people living in their country stolen, or the Mossad really was involved, take your pick.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12331 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1193 times:
Of course we can't forget that the Palestitians or political groups among them could have done this act too. I am quite sure those groups (Hamas, Hesbolla, and others) have the ability, skill and access themselves to the materials to produce passports or with governments or people in those governments in other states (Iran, Egypt, and others) who would assist them. I also suspect that Hamas/Hesbola have spies and agents themselves to get idenity info of Israelis to use for them too. Those same groups could also set it up to make it look plausable Israel was behind this to deflect blame from them. That Israel has a history of allegedly doing such acts helps in that plausablility.
EDKA From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 293 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1191 times:
interesting...its always the same people
Quoting Baroque (Reply 2): So tell us all who else would have access to passports of persons resident in Israel
how about MI6 for starters....
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4): Let's not be silly here. Never mind 'proof' - it's pretty obvious.
"never mind proof" - i like your style....Guilty before proven innocent, is this how it works these days?
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6): Sure, that and common sense. Again, who else is going to be using the identities of Israeli residents in an operation like this?
futurepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2018 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1186 times:
Quoting Baroque (Reply 2): So tell us all who else would have access to passports of persons resident in Israel????
Deniability is supposed to be plausible you know.
you're telling me that other secret organizations in other countries couldn't obtain that info?
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 60 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1186 times:
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15): I am quite sure those groups (Hamas, Hesbolla, and others) have the ability, skill and access themselves to the materials to produce passports or with governments or people in those governments in other states (Iran, Egypt, and others) who would assist them.
Of course! That is why there does not seem to be a record of Hez or Hamas or Fatah having operatives jailed for passport fraud whereas there is quite a record of Mossad folk being jailed for said offences.
So clever of those damned Hamas and Fatah and Hez never to get caught. Jees, you have to admire their skill.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1176 times:
Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
Of course! That is why there does not seem to be a record of Hez or Hamas or Fatah having operatives jailed for passport fraud whereas there is quite a record of Mossad folk being jailed for said offences.
So clever of those damned Hamas and Fatah and Hez never to get caught. Jees, you have to admire their ski
ugh not another thread. Like ive maintained, there is no smoking gun to say it was the Israelies. Part of me wants to believe that it was an internal Hamas job or it was Fatah that took him out. Notice how Fatah has been very quiet. Yes, in the past, Israel has used the same tactics and then they were caught. This time, whoever it was, was pretty good in getting away without being apprehended. Right now, the only people in custody of the Dubai police are Palestinians...no Israelis, no Mossad agents, nothing. If actual Mossad agents were not involved then i would guess that Mossad would have at least provided information and logistics support.
Then again, this could have been MI6, CIA, other European agencies, whoever. Obviously Mossad would be the go-between here in any case. BTW, im sure Mossad doesnt have just Israelis on their payroll
flanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1609 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1144 times:
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12): Just as a matter of interest, flanker, if it turned out that Israel definitely DID do it - what would be your opinion then?
Then it is what it is.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
In my view it was a thoughtless, unprincipled, monstrously-illegal, and vicious act which will lay many totally-innocent people (Israel residents at that) open to the risk of summary arrest and imprisonment, anywhere in the world, any time they travel, for the rest of their lives?
I take it you agree?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
EZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4929 posts, RR: 28 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1123 times:
So the entire world press is pointing at Mossad just for fun?
I'm sure that they are not the only ones that do this, but what makes you think that it ws others invloved and not Israel?
N537FX From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1108 times:
I feel like people are taking this whole thing too far. I mean lets be real, the Mossad cannot be the only intelligence agency that uses false documents. And if the Dubai authorities were so adept in finding the killers, at the end of the day the joke is on them, because the murder was carried out. If the Dubai police are as competent as they claim, these people should have been taken into custody at passport control.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6276 posts, RR: 23 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1092 times:
Quoting EDKA (Reply 16): Guilty before proven innocent, is this how it works these days?
Don't be silly. We're talking about the actions of secretive government services and assassins, we are NEVER going to be told the actual truth, so I'm afraid working on the balance of probabilities and making educated gueses is about all we will ever have.
✈ Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ✈
25 flanker: I don't condemn the act itself as it is part of a much bigger issue/struggle. However I agree that innocent people are going to bare the negative imp
26 NIKV69: Who cares. Bravo for them. It's about time they return some of the favor and do it in a way that doesn't involve strapping a bomb to your waist. I lo
28 EDKA: OK just few points for you and everyone else to consider then: 1. Mossad does not have resources to allocate 25 people to one job, and judging by the
29 qantas077: how on earth would you know what Mossad does or doesn't have when it comes to resources? are you for real? the Australian's living in Israel have all
30 AirPacific747: Let's just celebrate that the scumbag was killed instead... kudos to Mossad if they did in fact do it!
31 windy95: Exactly... No just the liberal/progressive anti Israel press.
32 US330: Exactly--there is no smoking gun. What there is, though, is precedent. Mossad has conducted these types of operations in the past, and the fact that
33 srbmod: Please continue the discussion in the following thread, as this discussion has been going there for the last five days: How Safe Are Passports (by Bar
Sponsor Message: 
From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9078 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2964 posts, 
From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6276 posts, 
From China, joined Jan 2004, 5745 posts, 
From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4929 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 293 posts, 
That is why there does not seem to be a record of Hez or Hamas or Fatah having operatives jailed for passport fraud whereas there is quite a record of Mossad folk being jailed for said offences.
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 98 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
