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BluRay Or Online Downloads: Which Will Prevail?  
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3440 times:
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Some of you may have seen the following thread:

This Is Why I Will Never Buy An Apple Computer (by Birdwatching Feb 18 2010 in Non Aviation)

After a lengthy discussion about "Mac vs PC" (which is somewhat like Boeing vs Airbus, but without the wings), it has turned into a debate about whether BluRay discs are indeed a useful feature to have in a computer or not.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 261):
Lack of BD on Macs is very serious. I won't even consider to buy one before Apple adds BD support in their machines.
Quoting Klaus (Reply 262):
Optical BluRay disks like any physical media are outdated transitional technologies even today, with a clearly limited lifespan as a technology. The sooner we're rid of plastic garbage just to use some data (and not even being able to make backups!) the better.
Please do not turn this into another Mac vs PC thread. I would like it to be a carefully thought debate about whether BluRay discs will have a future, or if they will be soon superseded by online downloads.

Personally, I don't know one person who owns a dedicated BluRay player, expect those playing with a PlayStation. I don't have one myself. I haven't bought a DVD in years, and my only movie source is iTunes (or TV broadcast).

How about you? Do you actually purchase BluRay discs? Do you watch them on TV, or at your computer?


Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21476 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

I rarely buy DVDs or downloads, no BluRays thus far. Music I buy exclusively via download nowadays.

In general I expect that BluRay will at some point eclipse DVD sales, but they will probably never reach the same numbers DVDs had at their peak.

Long-term I see a progressive shift towards downloads, especially once the DRM problems are sorted out (which is one of the reasons why BluRay will not reach the same level as DVD before) and with internet bandwidths further increasing.

Downloads avoid a lot of wasted physical resources (transport, manufacturing of physical disks, packaging etc.), can be backed up (DRM allowing) and are much more convenient and flexible to use.

Audio downloads only started to really take off once DRM was dropped. The circumstances about video (movies and TV series) will remain different to some degree, but essential similarities remain. A large part of the failure or success of downloads in the market hinges on what the studios / broadcasters will allow.

Selling physical media is an outmoded concept, however, and is on its way out, even if BluRay will somewhat delay its demise on the HD video front.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

I'd say downloads, but don't forget they use up huge amounts of internet bandwidth as well. The apple store here sells movies for $25..for that price you can get most movies on DVD..some even on Blu-ray. At the moment..most of my stuff is downloaded, but for things like TV series I'd still get the blu-ray.


אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3775 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

It all depends on the image and sound quality you're after.

If you absolutely need HD (1020p), then BD is the way to go for now. Otherwise you can download, but the quality will be lower.

Full DVD quality means a file about 4 Gb. More compressed formats return files of around 1.5 Gb, or even down to 700 Mb, by which time you have really lost a lot in image quality and the compression algorithm shows.

I don't know how big a full BD format movie file would be, but I believe so big that it would be impractical to download it these days.

As bandwidth increases, so will the size of files we can practically download, and movies in higher definition formats will become easier to get online.

The same goes for audio files, by the way.
When buying a song online, you pay slightly less than the average price of a CD song, but you download an MP3 file of much lower sound quality than those found on a CD. ( abround 5 Mb vs. 30 or 40 Mb on a CD)
Which is why it is funny when people go and spend fortunes on high quality audio hardware to listen to grossly compressed digital formats... (same goes for video)



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineafterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3357 times:

Compact disc is a 30-years-old technology but most music sales are still in the form of CD. I believe physical media will stay for at least several years.

User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27027 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

I have a Sony home entertainment system with HDTV and Sony Bluray. Very pleased with the results and Im currently collecting the James Bond Bluray discs. They have come down alot in price and places like Amazon and ASDA sell them for around £10. I still think the majority of families and everyday people still want discs rather than downloads.

User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 3):
The same goes for audio files, by the way.
When buying a song online, you pay slightly less than the average price of a CD song, but you download an MP3 file of much lower sound quality than those found on a CD. ( abround 5 Mb vs. 30 or 40 Mb on a CD)
Which is why it is funny when people go and spend fortunes on high quality audio hardware to listen to grossly compressed digital formats... (same goes for video)

Well, when buying MP3 at a good source, the sampling rate is >= 256 kBit/s, which equals a file size 7-10 MB for a normal song.

I think that studies show that it is next to impossible to detect quality differences above a sampling rate of about 200 kBit/s.

But then, on the other hand, some audiophiles claim that they can hear a difference between 10 $ vs. 100 $ cables.

Back to the topic: I believe that online pay per view will be the future standard for movies, and that Blue Ray discs (or whatever physical format) will be reserved for afficionados or for presents etc.


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3312 times:
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Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 6):
But then, on the other hand, some audiophiles claim that they can hear a difference between 10 $ vs. 100 $ cables.

I believe they actually can't. I still have to see a double-blind placebo study with $10 vs $100 cables where the audiophile can nail which cable is in use, if everything else remains equal.

Quoting afterburner (Reply 4):
Compact disc is a 30-years-old technology but most music sales are still in the form of CD. I believe physical media will stay for at least several years.

I think that's true for non-tech-savvy people or for aficionados. But will these same people buy BluRay movies? Or will they continue buying regular DVDs for the next 20 years, because "oh well, we don't need all this HD stuff"?



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

If you have seen the the quality of BD compared to a DVD on a big HD screen you don't want to go back.

And since today very few people have really high-speed broadband lines to actually use downloads in that quality and the studios are unwilling to provide movies without DRM I think the BD will gain a lot of momentum. With a BD you at least own the movie and don't depend on the servers of some company to allow you to use your product.

And I have my doubts that the movies studios will come to their senses anytime soon. Remember, it wasn't until Amazon MP3 (in December 2008!) that a shop came along which didn't use DRM at all. So it took them a full decade to realize that it was a good idea to provide their paying customers with a product that at least isn't worse than what they can get at the P2P-network one click away.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27027 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 9):
If you have seen the the quality of BD compared to a DVD on a big HD screen you don't want to go back.

      I certainly notice the difference when going back to non BD . Also BBC HD on the Freesat box is amazing especially for nature programs etc..


User currently offlineafterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):
But will these same people buy BluRay movies? Or will they continue buying regular DVDs for the next 20 years, because "oh well, we don't need all this HD stuff"?

I was talking about physical versus online media. Regular DVD will certainly be obsolete and Blu-ray will be the standard format. Some people will still buy movies (and musics) in physical media even after very high speed internet connections have been ubiquitous and cheap.


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3246 times:
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Quoting afterburner (Reply 10):
I was talking about physical versus online media. Regular DVD will certainly be obsolete and Blu-ray will be the standard format. Some people will still buy movies (and musics) in physical media even after very high speed internet connections have been ubiquitous and cheap.

Maybe I should re-word my thought: could it be that there will be 2 groups of people as follows?
1. people who have always bought CDs and DVDs, and will continue doing so, not caring about either HD or online downloads
2. people who love the HD revolution, and who don't really care about the physical media, thus switching to online downloads

In other words, I think the more future-oriented people are now going for BluRay but will switch to online downloads soon (bandwidth permitting), and the less tech-savvy and less future-oriented people will stick with the old formats for decades to come.

Does it make sense?



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21476 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 12):
In other words, I think the more future-oriented people are now going for BluRay but will switch to online downloads soon (bandwidth permitting), and the less tech-savvy and less future-oriented people will stick with the old formats for decades to come.

I don't think that's necessarily the split line, if such a line can even be defined.

I expect for the users it will primarily depend on prices, availability, quality levels and convenience.

And over time emerging usage trends can influence availability of titles on one or the other distribution mode.

I personally would expect the studios over the course of quite a few years getting dragged towards online distribution with just relatively benign DRM (if any), but there will be lots of kicking and screaming on the way. Just compare to the development of the music market, just bigger and with (even) more drama...   


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2412 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

I don't believe that most people are ready for using downlad as an option. They will see it as too complicated even if its not... for that reason, I think that blu-ray will win against download for many years to come.

User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 12):
Maybe I should re-word my thought: could it be that there will be 2 groups of people as follows?
1. people who have always bought CDs and DVDs, and will continue doing so, not caring about either HD or online downloads
2. people who love the HD revolution, and who don't really care about the physical media, thus switching to online downloads

I suspect that within a few years, I and a few others of my ilk, will be sending DVD records of images of samples and for a group of samples, a Blue Ray disk might well be more convenient.

I cannot see my ISP allowing me to upload an 8 Gig file any time soon. Yes I know there are other ways, but our broadband is still ridiculously slow. Meanwhile, the Post Office works quite well!!  Wow!


User currently offlineafterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 12):
Maybe I should re-word my thought: could it be that there will be 2 groups of people as follows?
1. people who have always bought CDs and DVDs, and will continue doing so, not caring about either HD or online downloads
2. people who love the HD revolution, and who don't really care about the physical media, thus switching to online downloads.

We should differentiate video format and media format. Regardless of the media, in the near future all movies will be sold in HD. People with high speed broadband connection can choose to see a movie pay-per-view or downloading it to their hard drives. For some others who don't/can't have a fast broadband connection, will choose Blu-ray or any other physical media format available to them.


User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4335 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
I would like it to be a carefully thought debate about whether BluRay discs will have a future, or if they will be soon superseded by online downloads.

If current trends continue, everything eventually will be coming to us on line. Regardless, and no matter where one stands on this issue, the technology and standards are changing so quickly that I think the revenue stream is shifting from being hardware manufacturing-centric to distribution-centric, a la downloads. Personally, I will never invest a lot in physical media if I can avoid it for this very reason. If I end up with a BD player, it will only be because someone gives it to me or it happens to come with a PC that I purchase. Otherwise, I'm not inclined to go out and buy a player as I'm not about to buy any of the discs for the player. As for DVDs, when I play them, which is very rarely, I play them off of a dedicated PC that I've set up as a media entertainment center in my home. But I haven't purchased a DVD movie in over a year. If I watch a movie these days, it is typically streamed or sent to me in the mail as a rental, courtesy of Netflix. I just don't see a future in "owning" entertainment in a plastic format. This trend is, IMO, emblematic of all information and not just entertainment. Hence the explosion in "cloud" computing in recent years.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 12):
In other words, I think the more future-oriented people are now going for BluRay but will switch to online downloads soon (bandwidth permitting), and the less tech-savvy and less future-oriented people will stick with the old formats for decades to come.

True, but only to the point where the manufacturers decide there's no profits to be had in catering to those "less tech-savvy and less future-oriented" people. I think they (the manufacturers) will pull the plug on those old formats in just a few years time, not decades.



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User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

Quoting redflyer (Reply 17):
I play them off of a dedicated PC that I've set up as a media entertainment center in my home

This is gonna be the future anyway. Sony is already trying to do something like this, Popcorn Hour (and dozen of clones), many people have built or bought HTPCs etc. - even today you you can have movies and tv series organized and presented by the systems thanks to databases in the internet. If you record e.g. an episode of Lost and name it Lost.S01E10 the system knows you have the 10th episode of the first season and downloads descriptions, artwork, etc. - it doesn't get more comfortable, see this: http://www.castle-grounds.co.uk/htpc/images/stream-tv-24.jpg

Same works for movies: http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/at...available-moving-pictures-list.jpg

It's just that as long as they stick to their own walled gardens instead of using open standards they'll fail and people will rather buy it on physical media (or download it illegally) than being tied to one system and the goodwill of the companies running it. Freedom will win, as it always does.


User currently offlineAverageUser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 15):

I cannot see my ISP allowing me to upload an 8 Gig file any time soon. Yes I know there are other ways, but our broadband is still ridiculously slow. Meanwhile, the Post Office works quite well!!

Yes, we would have to see an increase at least one order of magnitude in the speed of terrestial networks (not to speak of the present generation of wireless networks) before on-demand HD would be reality -- and if the present is of any predictive value by then people will have used up the capacity by some other nice stuff, and your flawless on-demand video will be back to somewhere near square one. If by some magic we could (or money could) establish deterministic public access networks (perhaps the contents creation companies could lobby towards that direction) the outlook would be different.

Meanwhile, as your BluRay player for the PC is in the range of EUR 83 (while regrettably not available for some other systems), and title availability is increasing, and at your corner store pretty much today, I see no reason for BluRay to fail -- although some would like it so.


User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3096 times:
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Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):
But will these same people buy BluRay movies? Or will they continue buying regular DVDs for the next 20 years, because "oh well, we don't need all this HD stuff"?

Too many variables. Perhaps I am the odd man out but:

We got the PS3 a few years ago when it was new as it was the only 1080P player around.

But it was multi-functional in that it also serves as a digital photo frame (we can run photos and music on the TV mounted over the fireplace while we have company over.), it can played stored music, CDs, and DVDs as well as Blu Ray. This is wired into a LCD screen that sits above a fireplace and will stay with the home once we sell.

We never really buy Blu Rays or DVDs simply because we borrow them from the library (which is amassing a large collection) and hate acquiring more stuff. As for HD quality, if I am not mistaken, you can download HD quality direct from the SONY Playstation network although I have never done it. I have never gotten into online downloads or streaming as of yet simply because the need is not there.

Now, once we get into a new home, we are starting over so I may look at a new media server or simply keep my PS3. But I have to tell you....not once have we looked into online streaming/downloads for TV viewing...

Quoting racko (Reply 8):
If you have seen the the quality of BD compared to a DVD on a big HD screen you don't want to go back.

True. In fact, its been about 2 years since we went to the movies since BluRay. The Dark Knight was one of the most impressive films in 1080P. We may go see AVatar in 3d soon but....maybe not.



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User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27027 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3071 times:

Here is a good comparison



User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3063 times:

I love my Blu-Ray player. My collection of Blu-Ray discs is rather small (four titles) as while some movies I love are on Blu-Ray, I see no real point on having them on Blu-Ray as well as regular DVD since they still play in the Blu-Ray player. Since my Blu-Ray player upscales DVDs to near HD quality, I see no need in replacing the DVD versions of most of my collection with the Blu-Ray versions. This isn't like when CDs came out and folks scrambled to replaced their vinyl collections with the CD version. I can still watch my DVD copies of "Casino" or "Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas" on my Blu-Ray player.

I can hook my Blu-Ray player to my cable modem and stream content from Netflix (I've been doing the online streaming from them for about a year now, even before I had my Blu-Ray player and even when I was still using DSL.) as well as CinemaNow and even stuff from YouTube.

Quoting racko (Reply 8):
If you have seen the the quality of BD compared to a DVD on a big HD screen you don't want to go back.

Very true.

Quoting oa260 (Reply 21):
Here is a good comparison

Bad comparison, as HD DVD is the Betamax of the Blu-ray/HD DVD format war.


In some cases, I think that the on-demand PPV option that cable and satellite providers offer if priced right, could be a real competitor to online streaming and downloading sites. I know I watch at least 2-3 things a week on mine, usually TV shows or a movie that is among the free offerings.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27027 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 22):
Bad comparison, as HD DVD is the Betamax of the Blu-ray/HD DVD format war.

Ok another example similar kind of difference



User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2050 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 3):
I don't know how big a full BD format movie file would be, but I believe so big that it would be impractical to download it these days.

Anywhere from 35 to 50 GB, yes, GigaByte of data. Usually closer to 50GB. Compare that to the typical 9GB on a dual layer DVD you buy off the shelf for a regular quality movie.

Downloading these would be prohibitive. Especially since providers such as Comcast are known to limit you to 250GB a month. Thats about 5 movies.



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User currently offlinewaterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):
Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 6):
But then, on the other hand, some audiophiles claim that they can hear a difference between 10 $ vs. 100 $ cables.

I believe they actually can't. I still have to see a double-blind placebo study with $10 vs $100 cables where the audiophile can nail which cable is in use, if everything else remains equal.

I personally can't tell any difference above a certain level of quality, but my dad has worked in the super high end audio realm for 3 decades now and he certainly can hear a difference between the seemingly most inconsequential components. You mention cables, which any reasonable person would think should be the cheapest part of the equation and the least influential on overall sound quality. He's tried all sorts of lesser cables and eventually settled on these-
http://www.transparentcable.com/prod...duct.php?catID=1&recID=24&modCAT=1
... which are something like $8,000 a pop. Don't even ask how much he paid for the rest of his setup, suffice to say it's probably the most impressive audio setup that one can ever hope to hear. It's good enough that the only limiting factor in reproducing perfect sound is the quality of the recording used to make the CD, which he also does as a hobby (recording engineer for the local symphony) so usually it's flawless. All that said, I'd never pay more than maybe $500 total for a sound system, because the marginal returns above that price are minuscule for the average listener. I guess it's like cars... if I had the money, I wouldn't think twice about buying a Ferrari 430, while a used Honda for 1/100th the price will get you there more comfortably with more people and more luggage and better fuel mileage.

Anyway, back on topic- I get almost all my movies these days via torrent, and I tend to look for files that are in the 1-5 gig range as they have quality close to DVDs or sometimes better if it's a compressed bluray or HD broadcast. Not exactly legal, but I thought I'd want to buy a BR player at some point only to realize it was just too expensive, so downloads are the "way of the future" for me. If I were held against a wall and forced to pay, I'd probably choose having the physical disc rather than a download as I'm not always online and I like the instant access of a physical disc rather than waiting for a stream to buffer or a file to download.


25 oa260 : Are there any decent BluRay recorders on the European market yet?
26 Klaus : That comparison is invalid, since DVDs use a nowadays obsolete older compression format to remain compatible. With modern codecs as used on BluRay DV
27 AverageUser : I must say I totally lost on what you are trying to convey. You're perhaps saying the stream from a disk is fixed and therefore inferior, while the s
28 theredbaron : I love my Apple TV, and works flawlessly, but I buy BD discs sometimes because they look better than HD on the Apple TV (720p vs 1080p). I think onlin
29 Klaus : Please stop your personal insinuations. I am ready to talk about issues, but persistent personal aggressiveness inserted into absolutely every respon
30 waterpolodan : I honestly think that he would be able to. Whenever he gets a new unit to review, he does blind tests comparing it back to back with whatever he was
31 Post contains images Klaus : Indeed. There are of course noticeable differences in various components, but with extremely expensive cables and such I have my doubts. In most case
32 GuitrThree : Well, Pirates of the Caribeean At Worlds End clocks in at 46.61 GB. There are lists out there that I did a google search for. Most are in the mid 20'
33 Post contains links Zentraedi : Where do you get this from? The fact is, many DVD/BluRay discs do use VBR encoding. Just look at the reviews on DVDBeaver. http://www.dvdbeaver.com/f
34 Boeing1970 : BluRay will probably thrive for about 7-10 years. Then it will be locally storable downloads, or maybe solid state cards like your SD card for a Camer
35 Klaus : Deducing from how the technology works. But I haven't checked the method they're actually using with BluRay. (Actually, I have checked but not found
36 Zentraedi : That's actually a very bad habit, especially when things have many layers of abstraction and how hardware usually implements "dirty" techniques which
37 Revelation : Based on my usage patterns, I've never gotten good value for money for the two different DVD players I've bought over the last 10 years or so, and dou
38 Go3Team : Pretty much download only for me, although I keep having to add drives to our VOD server. Good thing I have room for 12 more drives.
39 WildcatYXU : Well, I own one and I'm almost totally happy with it. It plays almost everything from wide variety of sources: discs, memory sticks, HDD's and from t
40 AverageUser : You are free complain to the moderators any time you find me offensive, please. I'm always ready to discuss facts with anyone. Forgive me for sometim
41 Revelation : Good summation. Now the question is does that non-deterministic internet behavior matter? As above, it doesn't to me: using the Netflix app on my TiV
42 Klaus : If you do have "the fact" that I "distort the facts" then present that fact as such, with topical arguments. Instead of that trying to insinuate that
43 RayChuang : Unless you have broadband Internet connection that can maintain at least twelve megabits per second download speed, you can forget about 720p HD from
44 Revelation : How did we go from a question about whether to go with BluRay or online downloads to a geek-centric discussion of playback strategies? Anyhow,... Yes,
45 Klaus : Because they can have a substantial impact on the comparability of file sizes between disc and download.
46 Baroque : I spent a while looking for a Blue Ray recorder and there do not seem to be many around. I would imagine if they become more readily available - not t
47 AverageUser : Is not, if you mean real time streaming on the present internet. Would be wonderful if it was, though. Revolutionary even. Whatever you will need the
48 Post contains images ACDC8 : As far as music goes, I'll download songs here and there but thats only because there are only certain songs on a certain album I want ... so for me,
49 Post contains images Klaus : A real-time stream is not the same as a file download. The two are inherently different, as explained above. The first is a dynamic data transmission
50 ManuCH : A quick off-topic excursus: our (I work for an ISP) Internet connections actually have end-to-end QoS for real-time streaming and for VoIP (the phone
51 Post contains images ACDC8 : 1) If other complications don't arise ... and we're talking about computers and internet here, so they will 2) Not everyone has internet connections
52 Revelation : You get what you pay for. In my case I have a TiVo that has a wireless connection to the rest of my home network. Movie download is trivial. I use a
53 Klaus : Not my experience. You're thinking way too complicated there. Technology and usability have advanced vastly beyond what you're expecting (at least wi
54 ACDC8 : Which is as little as possible for what I (and many) want. In other peoples cases, we don't want a home network. Which is fine, for people who want t
55 kevinl1011 : Exactly right. I think what Klaus is referring to here is (correct me if I'm wrong Klaus) that a digital audio /video recording consists of bits of i
56 Post contains images ACDC8 : And the experiences you describe are not mine. Which make us two completely different consumers with two completely preferences on what we want. What
57 Post contains images kevinl1011 : Good point Patrick. Consumers want convenience AND quality. It's a matter of how much you can pay for the convenience and still get quality. Stick wi
58 Revelation : Not my experience with my 3 Mbit/sec residential quality DSL line. Nope but it illustrates the point that media rental is loosing out big time to onl
59 Klaus : Actually, optical discs are in some ways more related to internet streaming than to internet downloads. Differences: - Bitrate: BluRay has vast stora
60 kevinl1011 : There must be a threshold as to how much error is allowed before it's detected and corrected. I see your point however I am still skeptical re: inter
61 Klaus : Our preferences appear to be pretty much the same. You just said it wasn't possible to use internet movie downloads without massive aggravation. From
62 Post contains images kevinl1011 : Unless it's something you want to view repeatedly. Yeah and ACDC8 still has his Beta Max player.
63 Klaus : All optical disc formats use massive mathematical error detection and correction schemes; At some point, however, some detected errors will remain un
64 Post contains images ACDC8 : Too lazy to rewind the tape before I take it back to the store I'm sure its losing some business to downloads, but the movie companies are still pump
65 Post contains images Baroque : That could be, hold while new models appear. Something is going on and I wondered if there were problems with the recorders. What I found happened ag
66 AverageUser : That's I think an already well-established matter, but your download is not to arrive in a determinitistic way either. No traffic over the present in
67 Post contains images Revelation : Hey, man, good luck at the Oscars!
68 Baroque : No competition for Kathryn Bigelow (yet!!), but believe it or not, I do miss not having a video camera on my microscope these days. When you get samp
69 Post contains images Marsciguy : Bargain bins?
70 AverageUser : Must be, I was looking for a snappy word, ours comes originally from a large vessel containing grain or some other precious bulk matter.
71 Post contains images Revelation : If the grain is fermented into precious beer, we call that a "keg"!
72 WildcatYXU : Actually, there is not too much to choose from around here. And ISP's are getting greedy. I've used to use Rogers' fairly fast and stable service. Ho
73 ACDC8 : Out here we don't even get Rogers yet (except for mobile services). For internet, we've got Telus and Shaw, and TV we've got Bell, Shaw and within ju
74 WildcatYXU : Apparently they have some sort of an agreement and they split the territory. We don't have Telus and Shaw, but we have Rogers and Bell. Some areas ar
75 ACDC8 : Thats what Rogers have told me as well ... I never really looked into it though. But like you said, we (as in Canadians) do have very limited choices
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