Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 35741 posts, RR: 88 Posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7107 times:
Yesterday, I took a lady friend of mine to look at some new cars.
We went to a GM dealer to look at some Chevys and Pontiacs. I went over to glance at the new Cadillacs just to kill some time.
This dealer had marked the price of there Sedan deVilles up to $58,557.00! !
The MSRP was $44,000.00. I couldn't understand why there was a mark up over $12,000. I had to ask the salesman what that was all about.
He said, "For you sir, $50,000.00 out the door!"
I gave him this look in disbelief. I asked him again, why was there such a huge mark up on the price. He went down to $48,000.00. I told him that I wasn't the one looking to buy a car, my friend was.
She was looking for Cavalier ($17,000). The salesman asked if she would be interested in a Cadillac Escalade ($50,000)!
Not only was this guy an idiot, but the dealership had a huge mark up on ordinary cars!
They were also asking $47,000.00 for a Chevy Silvarado 2500. The MSRP on this is about $32.000.
I've seen dealer mark ups on specialty cars like the Corvette, Viper, Prowler, Thunderbird and Cobra Mustang, but just standard vehicles?
Is this some sort of new marketing stratagy?
I certanly love my American cars and all but I just can't imagine why anyone would spend more than $50,000 on a mass produced ordinary one. The Viper and Corvette is the only exeption.
I Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7005 times:
I don't care for GM, I'm a Ford guy myself so I don't look at GM lots often at all. But this sounds like it's the dealer doing it and not GM. My guess would be it's a marketing strategy for dumb people who don't know what the dealer is paying for the cars. So to some people $50,000.00 from $58,000.00 sounds like a steal. Even if it is still marked up quite a bit. That would be my guess, but it does sound dumb and I'd avoid the dealer and go somewhere else.
BH346 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3265 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6979 times:
Also, they must've lost their marbles for discontinuing the Camaro/Firebird. These were among the few GM cars I liked. I'm more of a Ford person when it comes to domestics. I hear the dealers in Cali mark up a lot, though, as said, I think it's the dealer. Almost $60,000 on a Deville is pretty bad...I'd rather get a M5 or something for that price.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 35741 posts, RR: 88 Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6975 times:
I am a Ford/Mercury/Lincoln guy myself too.
She was the one who was looking for a small car.
Ford is a better company overall. Not only are there cars better than GM, but the business side of Ford is ran better than GM too. The only Ford vehicles that has a huge mark up is the Thunderbird (only 4000 per year to be made) and maybe the Cobra Mustang.
The good solid vehicles by GM (Firebird/Camero) have no advertising or marketing to support them. They are also eliminating them.
Even Fords partners over seas are better than GMs partners. Jaguar and Aston Martin are better than GM & Chryslers.
Matt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 53 Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6971 times:
Greed my friend....just plain 24 karat greed.....
...mixed with a good healthy dose of stupidity.
I don't know what it is about car dealers, but you have to wonder how they tie their shoes in the morning.
One time I was out looking at cars with a friend. He was interested in a (then) new Mitsubishi 2000GT.
the dealer walked over to us and they started chatting. The dealer offered to let him sit inside, which he gladly did so. This guy is as tall as I am (6'3"). Needless to say, he didn't fit. Even with the seat down as far as it would go, he was still hunched over. The following conversation ensued:
dealer: "So what do you think of it?"
friend: "It's nice. But I don't fit in it."
dealer: "You don't fit in it?"
friend: "nope"
dealer: "we have a white one in the back".
And so it went.
The only thing I can possibly think of that would account for that asanine reasoning would be some lame-ass sales strategy seminar that the dealer must've attended. Apparently, when somebody voices one objection, they really mean something else (price, features, whatever). I guess "not fitting" is the 'cover' for "I don't like the color".
Who the hell knows.
Needless to say, we didn't buy any cars from there.
Heavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6968 times:
"What the American public doesn't know is what MAKES them the American public!"
First of all, Superfly, you're in the Bay area and with everything ELSE marked up so much (homes, rent, taxes) without anyone griping, don't think the GM dealer isn't gonna get in on it.
Secondly, Cadillac is a brand that appeals to older buyers...the kind who grew up in an era where you picked out your car, then went on Saturday morning and sat at the salesman's desk and haggled with him over the price for three or four hours. "Let me clear this with my manager..." and so forth. It was a time honored tradition that made the buyer feel he or she was getting their money's worth.
Younger car buyers wont put up with it. They zip onto the Net, grab some fast facts and figures about what it cost to make, what the dealer paid for it...whatever. They understand the dealer's gotta make some cash out of the transaction, but with younger buyers in possession of hard data, it's not so much as the buyer talking the seller down as it is the seller seeing how much he can get out of the buyer, who will refuse to pay more than reason dictates....unless it's a hot, hip item, which, I must say, Escolades and the new Seville are indeed.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 35741 posts, RR: 88 Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6956 times:
Heavymetal:
I understand that the prices are inflated here in the Bay Area. However unlike a house, you can buy a car in another city or even another state and bring it here much cheaper than the mark up. Also, the competition is much stiffer here because you have a lot of import snobs that would rather spend that anount on a BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar.
Yes in the older days, buying a car was an experience and the buyer had repect and a relationship with the salesman. This dealer had marked up there pick up trucks too like the Chevy Silvarado 2500. That isn't an older person vehicle. That's usually small business owners or a person who like to go off roading. Usually people with smart business skills that would know better than to spend almost $50K on a truck.
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4794 posts, RR: 33 Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6959 times:
'Fly-
What you have described is a dealer-by-dealer thing. Other than the occasional supply-and-demand situation (such as the early Honda Preludes), I had never heard of additional dealer markups (ADM) until I moved to Southern California, where I found it absolutely routine.
When my child bride and I were shopping for a Cherokee in '89 (yes, I'm old), all the dealers had ADM tags on the windows, most printed to look like they were factory tags, not dealer adds. Some tried to hide the adds in inflated "extras" like "undercoating," or "paint sealer" (for $1,000.00?!); others tried to hide it by the clever term, "Dealer Protection Package"; but the honest ones just called it "Additional Dealer Markup."
The ultimate proof of the ridiculousness of the practice was at a Jeep-Eagle dealer in (I think) Santa Monica, which had a row of that answer to the never-asked question, the Eagle Premier- each had (in the front window) a big sign proclaiming a $2,500.00 rebate (since no one wanted these duds), and (in the side window) an ADM tag with $1,500.00 of profit pack. What a joke- htese cars had been sitting so long they had dead batteries and dusty dashboards.
Every time I called a dealer about a Cherokee (they were very hot at the time), they'd tell me"come on down, we have just what you want and we're makin' deals!" But when I 'd get there, they'd have a stripper silver two door, a max-loaded Grand Wagoneer Family Truckster, and a bunch of ADM tags; then, (with a straight face) they'd calim that they were discounting when they came down to the MSRP.
Finally, I called a dealer in Bellflower (called, IIRC, DonaVee) who faxed me several stickers, with "what I'll sell for" prices marked on 'em- real mark-downs. I went, they were true to their word, and I bought from them.
Just let your fingers do the walking, call dealers and ask them if they are dealing from MSRP, or from price packs; if they won't talk straight, then don't waste your time by goin gthere; they do not deserve the attention.
BTW, ADM tags are not very common here in Texas, but they pop up sometimes. Usually, though, in the form of grossly-inflated options (like a $749.00 CD player on a Grand Cherokee I saw).
Finally, there are dealers selling brand new Town Cars here for $14,000.00 off MSRP- for real! That'll get Superfly's pulse racing (if I had not already bought the Cadster, I'd be all over that deal now!).
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4794 posts, RR: 33 Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6940 times:
...while I wrote my novel (see above), lots of like-minded and interesting posts.
Yes, 'Fly,I bought my DeVille for (before tax) well under $40,000.00, with the leather, heated seats (bun warmers, as we call 'em), moon roof, chrome wheels (I just couldn't resist those, but they are the factory chromes) and memory package.
There are plenty instock around the country, and ADM on deVilles is uncalled-for.
How you like the Lincoln deal?
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4794 posts, RR: 33 Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6916 times:
Supe-
I doubt it's the Cratier- but the current TC is near the end of its run, and they are really lettin' 'em go cheap.
If I hear who's doing it, I'll EM you the scoop. Such a deal!
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4794 posts, RR: 33 Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6926 times:
B757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 30 Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6883 times:
Where I work, we just purchased 2 3/4 Ton Chevy Suburbans. List price for this model + options is over $50,000 and we paid $44,000. (The state always gets a discount since we put it out on bids). I want to know who can afford things like this.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 35741 posts, RR: 88 Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6885 times:
Sccutlter:
Your not too much older than I am. In 1986 I got may drivers license. I was shopping for a car too in 1989. I went with a 1974 Ford Pinto for $250.
Also that year, I flew on Delta's L1011 and DC-8.
Matt D:
White cars tend to fit taller people better.
National_757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6874 times:
Oh my god. This is a RIP-OFF. That is why I hate car salesmen. I ask you all this question, why the hell does there need to be a middle man in buying cars. I would love to just buy from the factory. Car salesmen are the most ruthless people in the world.
Has anyone here every tried getting a car off of the internet? I know this sounds like a dumb question, but you can go to ebaymotors.com and autotrader.com and buy one. You can also go to gm.com, 4adodge.com, and others and also buy a car using that way. I think buying a car from the internet would be much easier, but at the same time, you don't see the kind of car that you are getting, but you don't have to deal with the damn salesmen. So I guess there are some pros and cons about buying cars off of the net. What do you guys think?
Twaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6849 times:
It's a good point.
I believe that a large part of Cadillac (and GM's misery) over the last 15 years is in part due to their awful dealers. Whereas Lexus and Mercedes persuaded dealers to build beautiful new dealers in the suburbs with coffee bars, great service, and understated styles, many of Cadillac's dealers are old, tired buildings in older parts of town with washed-up traditional car salesmen, younger, affluent people don't have the time or will to deal with.
The difference between the Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes dealerships where I live and the Cadillac ones are vivid and depressing.
I think Caddy needs to spend a ton on reinvigorating their dealer franchises and re-teaching them car sales.
LOT767-300ER From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 8685 posts, RR: 36 Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6845 times:
Aa737 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 849 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6840 times:
Having gone with my parents that last few times my family bought a new car, I can now understand why everyone hates car salesmen as much as they do.
Recently my dad wanted to buy the Ford Escape for our house in the mountains, and upon entering the dealership and asking to see an Escape, the salesman had to look on the back of cars to find an escape. He first looked at the focus, apparently he had no idea the escape is an SUV. We quickly drove off to a different bay area ford dealer. I am not suprised that Ford has lost market share with the crappy dealerships they have.
With the mark ups, it must be a CA thing. When my mom bought her allroad there was a $5000 markup when we first saw the price tag. After questioning the salesman we were able to make a deal that was reasonable.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 35741 posts, RR: 88 Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6832 times:
LOT767-300ER: GM pulls up 13% while Ford goes down 8%
That may have to do with GM and Chrysler has introduced new products and body styles this year. The only new Ford product is the Thunderbird which only 4000 were made. The mark upon those is like $15K. It's not a high volume vehicle.
I expect figures for Ford to rise next year after the 2003 Town Cars (redesign), Mercury Marauders and Lincoln Aviators come out.
Twaneedsnohelp:
You’re absolutely right about Cadillac dealers vs. Lexus dealers. San Francisco's only Cadillac dealership (George Olsen) is going out of business next month.
I remember going there 4 years ago and there was a salesman literally sleeping in his chair. He must have dosed off. It's in a very old building near Opera plaza.
Manufactures are catching on to Internet shoppers and buying from dealers far away. A Mercury dealer in Oakland told me that auto makers can make more money by having fewer dealers spread further apart. That puts the consumer at a disadvantage because there is few dealers to choose from and automakers can still hike up the price.
As far as individual dealer mark up, I would think that there would be a company wide standard and code of ethics that every dealership would have to follow. True, they have to compensate for the high operating cost here in the Bay Area. However, pricing a Sedan Deville at close to $60K would run many customers out the door because that's not even in the ballpark of what potential buyers would spend on this car. People with that kind of money will not even touch an American sedan. That's Jaguar prices.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7526 posts, RR: 22 Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6823 times:
ADM stickers vary from place to place. A few of the large local franchises in the Phoenix area use them... even though down the street there is a one-price dealership selling the same car. But the one-price store doesn't neccessarily give you the better deal.
From my experience shopping cars with my dad and my brother I don't see why people make car buying out to being an awful experience. If you got an idiot for a salesman, leave or ask for somebody who is more knowledgable on the product. There is no excuse for a Ford Salesman not to know which car an Escape is.
When I was with my brother when he bought his Golf a month back negoiating the price took less than 30 minutes. The dealer said $16,100, he low-balled with $14,900... came back with $15,500.... deal done. Money talks and bullshit walks. If the dealer wants the business watch how quickly they drop their ADM mark-up... shows you how pure bullshit it is. And if you don't like how you are being treated.... walk. If anything you just wasted a few hours of their time.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
JETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3104 posts, RR: 38 Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6813 times:
American cars Are CRAP........
GM being the worst.
When you get serious about your ride you go German.
Not the made in Mexico VW's either.... however they are still a quantum leap over ford, or GM
If you can't afford a German ride then do yourself a favor and dont go to the dealer and check one out. if you don't know what your missing then it's easy to drive around in a GM.
For $17,000 I'd be looking at a BMW 325ci....early 90's
A 10 year old BMW is still an infinite leap over a new Cavalier.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 28887 posts, RR: 67 Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6785 times:
Hey Jet, I drive a Cavalier.
Got over 50K on it in two years and still going strong. The only problem I have with it is the radiator is so low it had the habbit of picking up snow if the roads hadn't been plowed. But it is a very stable platform on ice and snow.
BMW's are crap. That goes double for those built in the 80's. We had a bunch of guys that bought german spec ones when I was in Germany. I always felt they where somewhat chintzy especially compared with some of the used Mercedes Benzs that where on base.
But then again I was in Echterdingen and the Mercedes HQ was just up the road next to the Kaserne that had the AAFES movie theatre, so I may be slightly biased.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Greg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6789 times:
I'm not being an elitist...but JETPILOT is right. America should NOT be in the car business.
Anyone of average intelligence should see that the US makes horrible cars that don't last, don't hold their value, and in most cases...are butt ugly.
Germany is were it's at. You're so much better in a used BMW or Mercedes than a new Ford, GM, Chryser, etc...any day.
Now I don't know about trucks...but my last two friends who bought them got Tundras---so I'll assume that the truck market is just as bad in quality.
I've noticed that Dodge, GM, and Ford are now introducing all these retro designed cars. It's clear their intention is to have potential buyers remember back to when GM or Ford actually had an innovative thought (although it probalby died in a budget committee).
My M5 Rules. If any car maker in the US could make one that came close in handling, style, power, AND quality---I'd right the check. I think that sentiment is true for many buyers.
I
25 Captaingomes: Let's put things into perspective. Few people can afford a BMW M5, so maybe we should really be comparing cars that people can honestly afford. The bi
26 Superfly: Just ignore Greg and Jetpilot. As far as GM being crap, I can partially agree only because there good cars they eliminate them and they don't put a pe
27 JETPILOT: As far as BMW styling goes...... I can't go a day without someone commenting on my car. Yesterday it was the grocery guy at Publics super market. I dr
28 Superfly: jetpilot: Don' be a prick You shouldn't either. I've driven and WORKED ON plenty of BMWs to know that they are over-rated and over-priced. They break
29 JETPILOT: GM is junk..... thats all there is to it. BMW, Benz, Audi, VW, Porsche..... Japan comes in a close second...... The Koreans third..... USA I'm sorry t
30 VonRichtofen: LOL Superfly. The only beamer I'd think about owning if I had the cash would be an M5. You can't argue with 400hp. But for that money I'd rather get a
31 Superfly: VonRichtofen: That Ranger will last another 11 years easily. GM trucks are hit or miss I guess. The best trucks has to be Ford with Doge coming in a c
32 VonRichtofen: Oh yeah the 3 series beamers are such bitch cars. I'd rather pay $30,000 for a Japanese sedan than a euro one of the same price. At least a camry woul
33 JETPILOT: American Cars.... what middle class americans will do to save a buck..... JET
34 Greg: I'll still agree with JETPILOT...BMW's rock. And I think Audi is right behing them but has a few years to go. You CAN find a faster 0-6 machine than e
35 Captaingomes: Well, let's not take what Car and Driver, Motor Trend etc claim are the best cars. They are guided by their advertising revenues first and foremost. I
36 NWA Man: I'm gonna have to go with Greg and JET on this one, especially the assertion that you're much better in an early 90's Bimmer than you are in a Cavalie
37 Heavymetal: As far as "American" cars go, let's examine a few things: -A good portion of the parts in "Big 3" US carmaker vehicles are now made outside the USA. G
38 JETPILOT: I love my HID "high beams" Only car in production with that feature..... And you can't forget the clutchless manual F1 transmission. Again... the only
39 Aa737: JET- How does the BMW clutchless manual differ from the Audi clutchless manual? Just wondering.
40 Superfly: As I've said before, I've driven and WORKED ON enough BMWs and Mercedes to know that they are no better than what comes out of the US and Japan. My 19
41 JETPILOT: Audi doesn't have a clutchless manual. They have an automatic transmission that you can shift. The BMW transmission ONLY IN THE M3. Is a manual transm
42 Captaingomes: When I talk about German cars, and American cars, etc, it has nothing to do with where they are built, but rather the philosophies which go into their
43 Superfly: Captaingomes: The only imports (Non US) cars I've owned were the VW diesels. I had a 1980 Dasher stationwagon and a 1981 Rabitt. Both were diesel. I'l
44 Twaneedsnohelp: The 2001 BMW 750il thats it. period. heaven.
45 Sccutler: Guys, FWIW, I was tickled pink with my Audi, and my wifie sports about in her BMW Cabrio. When Hans (the Audi) got totalled in September, he had 93,00
46 BH346: Yeah, I'd honestly think for a cheaper car, a Japanese car would be best. A Camry is nice...they're good for a 4 cylinder. Just traded in our Honda wi
47 ILuvYak40: JETPILOT - Could you be more specific on what kind of HID high-beams you were referring to? In general, HID high-beams are offered on a LOT of vehicle
48 JETPILOT: I have HID high and low beams.... only offered on the BMW M3 at the present time. The cars you refer to have HID low beams and halogen high beams. JET
49 Flyf15: I've gotta agree about General Motors. They're modes of transportation and nothing else. Well, maybe driving fashion statements sometimes (ugh, bad on
50 Captaingomes: About bi-xenon lights (both low and high beams) I know that the Passat W8 has them too as well as Porsches. I believe the Mercedes SL, if not others a
51 Bruno: I'd have to say that dealership lost it's marbles. They sound like they're trying to go out of business. Here in expensive New York City, no one in th
52 Greg: Argue all you want...the new M3 is techno-rocket that now has all other manufactures worried what to do about their next generation of sports coupes.
53 Captaingomes: As much as I love (and prefer) the M3, GM fans have a great argument with the Corvette, especially the Z06. That car out accelerates, and outcorners t
54 Greg: Captaingomes....I'm not taking anything away from the Corvette...you can do a lot with a big engine and large tires (a la Viper)...unfortunately they
55 Leftseat86: I say the next objective of the war on terror should be a reform of these nut-case car salesmen! Hasn't the American public suffered enough!
56 LOT767-300ER: Superfly: There are a few forum members who own the Impala SS (1994-96) and I am sure they can testify that the quality of GM is excellent. Greg: Corv
57 Greg: Yes...a '96SS....isn't that a taxi or something? If that's the best car you've seen on the road..man, I don't EVER want to be in your neighborhood! BM
58 Superfly: Greg: What's wrong with a Taxi? Those cars are the most durable cars on the road. Lots of stopping and going, potholes and prone to accidents. With an
59 LOT767-300ER: First of all he could be lying about the M5... Second of all i was merely being sarcastic when you i said my car is the best on the road please. After
60 Sccutler: ...that wasn't your M5 wrecked-out in the rain on the Tollway this morning, was it? Silver late-model 5 (think it was an M) played pinball wizard agai
61 JETPILOT: Probably some idiot on a cell phone.... Bimmer exonerated. JET
62 Superfly: Gee, I guess all of that sophisticated German engineering went out the door or should I say, off the road.
63 Greg: LOT....No, sorry..not lying...it's my baby (no kids..go figure). Was razing you, dude...nothing personal. It was only a joke. Sccutler....No..my cell
64 BH346: M5 is manual-only so you can't really talk on a cellphone while driving. Just make all cars manual now so that there won't be a person who hits other
65 Aerorobnz: I think the S type is the most feminine of the Jags...XJR is the most masculine.
66 9V-SVE: Japanese cars are most reliable-My family has a Mitsubishi Gallant 1996 model and its still going strong despite a couple brake problems.
Sponsor Message: 
From Thailand, joined May 2000, 35741 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
?
From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
