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The Great Police Car Thread. Crown Vic Replacement  
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 17085 times:

I just read the article on some of the official replacements.

People doubted me (Cadet57) if the Taurus would be put up as the official new Ford entry to the market.

1. 2011 Chevrolet (Holden) Caprice.


-RWD Platform
-Not sold to civilians (get it at your ex-Cop Dealer)
-Standard 355hp V8 (Presumably an LS1?), then the familiar 3.6L V6
-Full size

2. 2011 Dodge Charger Police (2005-2010 shown)


-RWD platform, available AWD (not sure if the cop package is also available with the AWD)
-The 3.5L HO getting replaced with the 280hp Pentastar V6, 360hp Hemi 5.7L option
-Damn good looks

3. 2011 Ford Taurus Police
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss44/TexasBillC/Taurus-Squad.jpg

-FWD platform, available AWD.
-3.5 260hp V6 and option Twin Turbo 3.5 EcoBoost 365hp engine
-Definately not as big as the Charger or Caprice

-Carbon E7
http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/carbon_e7-police-vehicle.jpg

-Specifically built for police/government
-RWD
-Diesel (!!!)
-Integrated lightbars, electronics equipment etc.

---

I would personally choose the new 2011 Caprice. I think the Taurus will go the way of the Impala, unless departments are willing to dish out for the EcoBoost/AWD version.

I dont think that a diesel is the way to go in the US....I have high doubts about high speed pursuits and the initial cost of purchasing these Carbon vehicles.

171 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1834 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 17049 times:

This is a good idea for a thread - I will be interested in seeing what the experts here say.

My uncle is in the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) and it sounds like they are starting to go with the Dodge Charger. I do most of my driving back in Victoria, BC (the Metro area of which is served by 4 different police forces btw) and I have seen enough of them there to start being conscious of my speed when I see a Charger (as I do with a Crown Victoria).


User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17037 times:

There should be an RFP for this like the KC-X tanker one, so that the whole thing takes 15 years to procure and ends up as a fight in the courts.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Thread starter):
Standard 355hp V8

L76 V8 engine (6.0L with cylinder deactivation, the standard engine of Holden Commodore AFM V8 or Pontiac G8). The LS1 is long since gone. Holden only has L76, LS3 or LS7 V8 engines (or SIDI 3.0L and 3.6L V8 engines).

There is also a rumoured 3.0L twin-turbo diesel V6 waiting to be released.


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17033 times:

Almost no Chargers here yet, but down in FL we had the FHP Chargers on the interstates, both normal and plain wrappers and just by how they look you know they mean business.

I just dont think Ford is making the right decision to go for a FWD platform. The Intrepid and the Impala didnt really WOW...That being said the new Taurus is a great car, and the new EcoBoost V6 is a great engine but IMO not for heavy duty police work.


User currently offlinevarigb707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17035 times:

this is one looks nice.

http://i40.tinypic.com/m9uf0z.jpg


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17030 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 2):
L76 V8 engine (6.0L with cylinder deactivation, the standard engine of Holden Commodore AFM V8 or Pontiac G8). The LS1 is long since gone. Holden only has L76, LS3 or LS7 V8 engines (or SIDI 3.0L and 3.6L V8 engines).

There is also a rumoured 3.0L twin-turbo diesel V6 waiting to be released

Ahh yea I was just thinking about the 2004 Monaro/GTO as I was reading the article thats why I said LS1. Dont know why I wrote that.


User currently offlinebrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17022 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Thread starter):

I dont think that a diesel is the way to go in the US....I have high doubts about high speed pursuits and the initial cost of purchasing these Carbon vehicles.

Not every police car needs the ability to do high speed pursuit. It's pretty hard to outrun a radio.

The goals for the diesel is for 28 to 30 combined MPG, that would save police departments a lot of money on their fuel bill.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17026 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 2):
(or SIDI 3.0L and 3.6L V8 engines).

BTW, I think you were misspoke there too. You meant to write 3.6L V6   


User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17020 times:

Given all the ex Ford guys at Carbon, do we know who's producing its diesel.

As an Aussie, I think the Caprice could be a great export earner, and Adelaide sure needs help in terms of jobs. Plenty of the civilian version plying our roads as taxis and limos. None as police cars however - it's seen as too big, so the highway patrol cars are generally Commodore SS (Pontiac G8, standard wheelbase version of the Caprice) or our RWD Ford Falcon.

The Carbon does sound interesting though....


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17018 times:

Quoting brons2 (Reply 6):
Not every police car needs the ability to do high speed pursuit. It's pretty hard to outrun a radio.

The goals for the diesel is for 28 to 30 combined MPG, that would save police departments a lot of money on their fuel bill.

That depends on where fuel prices stay and the price of the car is competitve with the others. Just look in the Jetta thread where we (or myself, VW and the EPA) calculated that a +12mpg increase with a diesel vs. a gasoline and a +$5000 sticker price on part of the diesel would yield only savings after 8-10 years...hardly the life of a police car.


User currently offlineaerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17004 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Thread starter):
I would personally choose the new 2011 Caprice.

I reckon it's too big. A standard Commodore cop car is big enough, with the same engine. That'd be the best starting point because cop cars in NZ/Aus are Commodores, so the design is already out there and ready to be brought straight into service.


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16997 times:

Quoting aerorobNZ (Reply 10):
I reckon it's too big. A standard Commodore cop car is big enough, with the same engine

We are talking about the US...the #1 positive about the Crown Victoria is its size...and arguably its still bigger than the Caprice.

I think the size of the Caprice will be its main selling point in the USA, not its drawback.


User currently offlinebrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16992 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 9):

That depends on where fuel prices stay and the price of the car is competitve with the others. Just look in the Jetta thread where we (or myself, VW and the EPA) calculated that a +12mpg increase with a diesel vs. a gasoline and a +$5000 sticker price on part of the diesel would yield only savings after 8-10 years...hardly the life of a police car.

I've shopped around Jettas in the last few years and the engine alone does not cost $5K more. Unfortunately they do stick you with a lot of options by making TDI an option package rather than just the engine alone, but if you option up a gas Jetta similarly the difference is not $5K. I have not done it for 2010 model year though.

There's also the question of depreciation. Despite diesel vehicles supposedly being less popular in the US, they hold a lot more of their value come resale time.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7312 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16978 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 11):
We are talking about the US...the #1 positive about the Crown Victoria is its size...and arguably its still bigger than the Caprice.

What I don't get about your size issue with the Crown Vic, it's a long car but the cabin space isn't that large, I've always been amazed at how small Crown Vic taxi's are, they don't have as much room in them as a Caprice.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Thread starter):
I have high doubts about high speed pursuits

You do know that diesel engined vehicles have won the last couple of Le Mans, Seat have won the WTCC with a diesel, I don't think there is any problem with diesel in high speed pursuits.

I like the idea of the Carbon E7 a specifically designed vehicle for police use rather than converted passenger vehicle which is ultimately compromised.


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16953 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 13):
You do know that diesel engined vehicles have won the last couple of Le Mans, Seat have won the WTCC with a diesel, I don't think there is any problem with diesel in high speed pursuits.

What does a 5L+ Twin Turbo V12 Diesel have to do with a 250hp (presumably V6 diesel)? We arent talking here about specially tuned high performance diesels.

And what does a Seat Leon TDI have to do with high speed police chases? The WTCC the Seat Leon won is a Group A car competition. Not anything near resembling a police car with gear by the hundreds of pounds in the trunk, factory armored doors, laptops etc.


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16949 times:

Quoting brons2 (Reply 12):
I've shopped around Jettas in the last few years and the engine alone does not cost $5K more. Unfortunately they do stick you with a lot of options by making TDI an option package rather than just the engine alone, but if you option up a gas Jetta similarly the difference is not $5K. I have not done it for 2010 model year though

Look into the thread, I compared the diesel Jetta to a non-Jetta that was $5k less with a regular V6 engine. Calculated on the EPA, VW and my calculations that it would take 8-15 years just to get back that $5k by buying a TDI Jetta vs. a $5k cheaper car with a V6.


User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16926 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 7):
You meant to write 3.6L V6

My apologies.   3.6L V6 indeed.   Hope the 3.0L diesel comes soon, because it is said to have more torque than the 6.0L V8 and something like 260hp, with excellent fuel economy to match.

Unfortunately Holden is beset with the analysis paralysis from the its American parent company.   They have a lot of nice ideas - but can't really do anything unless HQ gives the ok...  

By the way, that Statesman / Caprice will be seriously old by the time you lot get it - it's been released here for quite some years already. It's hardly a 2011 model.  
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 13):
they don't have as much room in them as a Caprice.

Caprice/Statesman are massive inside. They are huge compared with a Lincoln Town Car, which I imagine would be similar size to a Crown Victoria. Easily the most comfortable car to ride in this side of the seriously expensive super-luxury cars. The people in the front can have their seats all the way back and the people in the back still have massive leg room! Very, very nice. I travel in those cars a lot these days.

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 8):
and limos.

They are superb for that! Spacious, comfortable and laden with gadgets.   Quite handsome too.   I should also explain for the foreigners, the taxi versions are the premium/prestige service taxis.

Our Police cars that do similar duty to what the American ones will do are generally Holden Commodore SS or Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo (or the even faster F6 version).

If America needs a high speed pursuit vehicle - might I suggest they go for the Ford F6:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/21409/2009-fpv-f6-310-review/

NONE of those big pursuit cars in America would have a hope of catching one of those! My god, those turbocharged Fords are damn scary. Full acceleration in those is like moving to warp speed! The 0-62mph time is easily less than 4.9sec. The crims wouldn't have a chance of running away from it either.

[Edited 2010-03-16 00:53:52]

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16917 times:

Chargers are pretty, but I am still of the mind that US cops need to downsize their clunky gear in the car and move to something more nimble like a BMW 5 series or something.

That said, I really dig the Carbon and think if offers some interesting traits.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Thread starter):

I dont think that a diesel is the way to go in the US....I have high doubts about high speed pursuits and the initial cost of purchasing these Carbon vehicles.

155 mph top speed (destroys a Crown Vic) and a 6.5 sec (comparable to or better than a Crown Vic) 0-60 is pretty sweet. I don't know what the cost of purchase will be, but Carbon is aiming for double the service time. Even if the cost is 1/3rd more, the car will easily pay for its self in efficiency and length of life.

Quoting cpd (Reply 2):

There is also a rumoured 3.0L twin-turbo diesel V6 waiting to be released.

Sexy.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 3):
Almost no Chargers here yet

I've seen a few in L.A. They seem to really like putting them in certain nicer neighborhoods to show them off.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 3):

I just dont think Ford is making the right decision to go for a FWD platform.

Totally agree. That said, if they make the default position AWD, they will be ok.

Quoting brons2 (Reply 6):

Not every police car needs the ability to do high speed pursuit. It's pretty hard to outrun a radio.

And a chopper. That said, the Carbon can more than hold its own.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 9):
the life of a police car.

That is a key. The Carbon is aiming for double the service time.

Quoting brons2 (Reply 12):
There's also the question of depreciation. Despite diesel vehicles supposedly being less popular in the US, they hold a lot more of their value come resale time.

The Carbon is not going to be sold to the public. Ever. It will either move on to another police agency or go back to the factory for recycling.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14):
We arent talking here about specially tuned high performance diesels.

Actually, we are with the Carbon.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 15):
Calculated on the EPA, VW and my calculations that it would take 8-15 years just to get back that $5k by buying a TDI Jetta vs. a $5k cheaper car with a V6.

Did you add in resale value to that? How about the lower MX costs associated with diesels?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16914 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):
By the way, that Statesman / Caprice will be seriously old by the time you lot get it - it's been released here for quite some years already. It's hardly a 2011 model.

I doubt this matters. The engine is plenty of powerful enough but everything else is going to be reconfigured for cops because there will be no civilian version. This means cop specific suspension, possibly cop specific exhaust, cop heavy duty alternator, factory armor etc.

BTW, you seem to forget one of the most important factors when it comes to space and police gear. Trunk space. The Crown Vic has quite a bit more of trunk space than a Caprice/Statesman. Its just another factor why that car wont die and is loved.


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16915 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Actually, we are with the Carbon

Im not exactly sure how a 250hp is a specialized diesel engine...I guarantee you it will come from some other manufacturer. There is no way that they can just go ahead and develop a special engine and price that car to the competition.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Did you add in resale value to that? How about the lower MX costs associated with diesel

What lower maintenance cost? You mean the oil changes which usually cost 2-3x the amount of a regular car, and if anything goes tits up you pay up the @$$ in a diesel?

Realistically speaking on just one negative...what do you think the service life of a turbo will be in police work? Doesnt matter if its a diesel or a EcoBoost Ford with Police driving? You reckon cops will cool down turbos and take proper care of them? Yea right...thats wishful thinking. Can you imagine the cost of maintenance if you start to develop these problems on a massive scale? Same with AWD, I just dont buy it unless its a police SUV.

Quote:
NONE of those big pursuit cars in America would have a hope of catching one of those! My god, those turbocharged Fords are damn scary. Full acceleration in those is like moving to warp speed

I think that would be the point of offering the Taurus Twin Turbo V6 AWD...

BTW..theres plenty of undercover cops in my county with just as much speed and power. Theres undercover C6 Corvettes, 05/06 GTOs, Charger SRT8s etc. that roam the city/interstates/expressways where I live.

[Edited 2010-03-16 01:00:49]

User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16912 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
BTW, you seem to forget one of the most important factors when it comes to space and police gear. Trunk space. The Crown Vic has quite a bit more of trunk space than a Caprice/Statesman. Its just another factor why that car wont die and is loved.

Heavens, how much stuff do they need? Caprice's one is already massive with space to spare, and the lid of it is hinged so that the hinges don't intrude into the trunk space.

[Edited 2010-03-16 00:51:42]

User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 16893 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 20):
Heavens, how much stuff do they need? Caprice's one is already massive with space to spare, and the lid of it is hinged so that the hinges don't intrude into the trunk space

Obviously alot. I went on a ride along a couple of times in Florida and the trunk in the Crown Vic was riddled with gear to the top. Actually, thats why the cops in that department at least loved the Chevy Tahoe and Ford Expedition cop SUVs, huge trunks for gear. BTW, I checked and the Crown Vic has some 1/5th more trunk space than a Caprice/Statesman, and Ford is specifically increasing the size of the Taurus trunk for the PPV version.


User currently offlineaerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 16823 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 11):
We are talking about the US...the #1 positive about the Crown Victoria is its size...and arguably its still bigger than the Caprice.

Yeah I know we are talking about the US, but a Caprice is massive even by US standards of sedan, I'd have thought the SSV8 with the shorter non-ute wheelbase would handle better and be even faster because it weighs less. They have plenty of space too

Anyone who has to sit in the back doesn't deserve the right to legroom... 


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 16817 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Thread starter):
dont think that a diesel is the way to go in the US....I have high doubts about high speed pursuits and the initial cost of purchasing these Carbon vehicles

Well. You're saying space and weight is an issue, and that's precisely where diesels excel. Plenty of torque to haul those pounds of extra gear.

Over here, police cars (except for dedicated highway pursuit vehicles) have been diesels for quite a while, and I expect US police stations to get a good deal on diesel fuel if they buy bulk. After all those cars really drive a lot of miles, the savings would be enormous.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7312 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 16813 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14):
What does a 5L+ Twin Turbo V12 Diesel have to do with a 250hp (presumably V6 diesel)? We arent talking here about specially tuned high performance diesels.

And what does a Seat Leon TDI have to do with high speed police chases? The WTCC the Seat Leon won is a Group A car competition. Not anything near resembling a police car with gear by the hundreds of pounds in the trunk, factory armored doors, laptops etc.

Well it proves that diesel can be used in high speed vehicles, plus the Germans use BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class diesels, they probably travel at higher speeds more frequently than US police do.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
Trunk space. The Crown Vic has quite a bit more of trunk space than a Caprice/Statesman.

If you call 23 litres quite a bit more, I don't.

Ford Taurus 569 Litres
Ford Crown Vic 583 Litres
Holden Caprice 560 Litres

Now I bet most of that additional Crown Vic space is wasted since the boot hinges intrude into the boot. So I would probably call it even. Either way you could fit a lot of dead bodies, golf bags or police junk in the boot of all of these vehicles.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 19):
You reckon cops will cool down turbos and take proper care of them?

Modern turbo motors don't need cooling down time, you can thrash the crap out of any modern turbo petrol or diesel engine just as you would a naturally aspirated engine and not worry about it. 5 of my last 8 cars have been turbo charged and I've never had a turbo problem.


25 JJJ : No you can't. If you do it a few times a year nothing serious will happen, but do it everyday and the turbo is gone in 50.000 km.
26 sprout5199 : But how many miles per year was that? At 35,000 (or more) a year, a +12 mpg gain would be huge. There are some cars here at the dept I work for that
27 KiwiRob : I drove a 1991 MR2 turbo for 120,000km, it was tuned, chipped, thrashed everyday I owned it, and I never had a problem with the engine, all I did was
28 Dreadnought : In the US police cars need to be pretty heavy. Just watch a few episodes of COPS and see the morons we have who decide to try to run for it. If you a
29 globeex : All the guys here talking of weak performances concering Diesels, I'm sure you have never ever driven a proper diesel. Drive a diesel with 160hp and t
30 KiwiRob : The Caprice weighs approx 4200 pounds, the Commodore 3900 - 4070 pounds and the Crown Vic 4100 pounds, all roughly the same weight. The standard Comm
31 lowrider : Being a diesel fan, I have to give the nod to the Carbon. Plus, a purpose build car will almost always out perform a conversion.
32 Post contains images Cadet57 : Im eating my humble pie. And it tastes bad
33 TSS : That would get my vote! Perhaps the next version of the Falcon will be designed/updated with an eye towards making it easy to produce in both right-
34 Post contains links and images PHLBOS : Do you, by any chance, have a link for said-article? Can we say Black Market? I'm curious to know how long the Charger platform (as well as the Chrys
35 JJJ : So does law enforcement fuel. One has to look at running costs also (of which fuel is the biggest component), in the end and all things considered, g
36 PHLBOS : Depends on the market. In many areas, diesel fuel can cost higher than gasoline (as high as $0.70/gallon in some areas) so the fuel savings could be
37 globeex : I see where you are comin from and you simply do the same mistake all the others are making. Yes it is true that a diesel with 250hp is more expensiv
38 Post contains images columba : I personally would vote for the Charger best looking car of all of them No problem for most German squad cars which are mostly diesel powered even the
39 PHLBOS : Let's be clear here. I was only comparing gas vs. diesel on the grounds of purchase and/or maintenance costs only. I stated nothing about performance
40 globeex : Yes and that's what I was saying. You can't compare the purchaseprice of diesel and gas cars if you just look at the hp number. If you compare them f
41 N1120A : I'm sure it will. I wasn't saying that it would be. I was just saying the car would be plenty fast. Only because people allow themselves to be ripped
42 Cadet57 : On diesels, sure. But if the new Interceptor uses the twin turbo ecoboost, The mx costs will be interesting... Again, on diesels yes. But I have a fe
43 N1120A : I was talking about the Carbon. There is no way that Taurus should ever see police work.
44 Cadet57 : Like I said, the diesels would be a great option. The Taurus, im not so sure yet.
45 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : Yes, I realize that propriety shite Ford AWD (ever since they switched away even from the crappy Haldex) is on demand. I dont think so. I think it wo
46 PHLBOS : Again, where in my previous posts did I compare hp ratings of a diesel compared to gas? Incidentally and I should've stated this in my earlier post:
47 globeex : No, a 265hp will have a similar torque, accleration etc. to a 350-360hp gasoline car. Come one, are you really talking of the 25$ difference you migh
48 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : The CHP bought BMW cars ??? The hell you guys smoking? Arent those BMW Motorcycles that the CHP bought?
49 LOT767-300ER : My point is that these add up when you are selling these vehicles by the thousands and they see 100,000+ miles per year.[Edited 2010-03-16 14:58:47 b
50 N1120A : Those speed numbers I quoted were as outfitted for police use, given that there is no other option. Yes. I think I confused PHLBOS. And those BMW bik
51 LOT767-300ER : Given that they have made 1 prototype and have not stated a price but just said "competitive" I wouldnt hold my breath. ..LOL...you made the poor old
52 N1120A : Here is something to remember. Carbon is including the costs of everything in their estimates, and is planning on using a large degree of recycling i
53 globeex : So did you? To a comment saying that "the carbon would be plenty fast" you anwser with the following: So how is that saying exactly that? That aside,
54 cpd : Then may I suggest they use Mercedes Benz S-Class Guard B7 - that should be heavy and safe enough for them. After all, it'll withstand bombs, heavy g
55 A342 : A) At least in Germany, there is no price difference between oils for diesel and gas engines (assuming the engines are of similar vintage). B) What's
56 Post contains links Dreadnought : Correction. Heavy and reasonably priced. http://blogs.cjonline.com/index.php?entry=2814 Base vehicle: A 2007 Ford Crown Victoria with police package
57 GuitrThree : I'd take all 4!! What a great bunch of cars. I think everything's been discussed here, except for the vast amount of LED lighting on the Carbon. Don't
58 PC12Fan : Drive one. A buddy of mine recently got a new SHO. I was so literally shocked on how it performed that I am seriously considering a vehicle change. S
59 Cadet57 : It has. Chevy released a Holden here as a Caprice for police sales only. The new Taurus is a fantastic car. But it's not really cut out for police wo
60 flanker : That last car is pretty wicked with the integrated lights and everything.
61 LOT767-300ER : Yes, I was comparing a 265 Twin Turbo 3 series. Not a full size police car that will weigh 500-600lbs more and be 1.25x bigger in physical size. You
62 cptkrell : Yeah, flanker, the Carbon E7 looks pretty cool, but we talked about it here some 16 months ago and I haven't seen anything concrete about availability
63 BMI727 : The S-Class is an excellent car in almost every respect, but they are much better suited for running errands in the Green Zone than chasing speeders.
64 Cadet57 : But that Taurus will last a hell of a lot longer than that BMW.
65 LOT767-300ER : There is not here. And even there it is much more expensive than here as with every product they rape people in Europe. CV takes 6QTS of oil (presume
66 globeex : Yes you do get a 270hp diesel to 6.0-6.1sec on (0-60mph). As I said SIMILAR (which i think is "similar" to 5.7 to 5.9 secs), hardly anybody who isn't
67 Post contains images cpd : The guard versions would be reasonable battering rams though. What are they, about 2500kg weight? I only suggested it flippantly - I doubt the US pol
68 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : Im sorry, 60mpg in an Audi A6, or even 50mpg? Thats impossible. Wait a minute..are you attempting to compare US Gallons vs. Imperial gallons!?! Hahah
69 cpd : The BMW 520d does 64mpg, so it should be possible.
70 LOT767-300ER : Wow great...what does a 4 cylinder 160hp diesel have to do with this conversation? And 2nd, when you make comparisons....use either US Gallons or Imp
71 globeex : No I didn't. Just forgot the translation from km to mph. Anyway, its close to 40MPH. So its still a good 40% less. How is it mid 6 to 7 in a 260-270h
72 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Whatever they get I hope it's easy to see from many miles away for when I'm driving at questionable speeds
73 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : On what basis are you making that statement? Im making my statements on having owned and still own both diesel cars and regular cars both in the US a
74 Post contains links and images Fly2HMO : Good thing it's just a rumor for my version at least, but it might apply to the 3 pot 1.2L diesel sold in Europe. LOL I run loops around the wimpy Ca
75 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : I am starting to like how you think! I know a guy with an SRT Charger in Poland that runs straight pipes (obviously its US registered). When he floor
76 KiwiRob : Unfortunately there will be not Australian designed Falcon replacement, whatever replaces the current Falcon will probably be a local variant of the
77 JJJ : If those were the numbers, yes. But generally they're not. Sorry? The 6.7 cummins puts out 350 hp and 650 lbf of torque the V10 5.0 in the Touareg ha
78 N1120A : Two things. One, the Cummins very easily tuned. Two, it puts down even more grunt at the low end.
79 Post contains images A342 : I think the diesel drivers on your side of the pond are getting screwed. Most oils over here are in fact good for both diesel and gas engines. First,
80 KiwiRob : I doubt you will get a response, we all know that diesel is wonderful stuff but some people just can't see the light.
81 Post contains images BMI727 : I can tell you that the Caprice is pretty well built when it comes from the factory. Shutting the driver's door sounds about the same as closing a ba
82 Super80DFW : I haven't seen any of the new Taurus's down here. Right around where I live though, the police departments are loading up on Tahoes. That Charger look
83 PHLBOS : You sir, owe me one big time apology. You CLEARLY mentioned the BMW CHP contract following my comment to YOUR recommendation for BMW 5-series sedans
84 WildcatYXU : Actually, it's every 5000 miles. Many cars have the oil change interval even shorter - 3000 miles. Here in Canada it's between 5000-7000 km or 3 mont
85 Cadet57 : Thats because the new police versions arent out yet. 2011.
86 globeex : Are you sure it isn't "top up every 3 month"?! Volkswagen usualy has around 10k or one year of an interval. If you have longlife its up to 20k or 2 y
87 Post contains images WildcatYXU : Globeex, your flag is a real one is it? What you're describing are oil change intervals in Europe.
88 BMI727 : My Avalon is supposed to be 3,000 though it usually ends up being 3500-4000 for me. Between doing that and putting gas in it that car will be here lo
89 Post contains images globeex : Haha, yes it is Hm, I have to say that I'm pretty shocked/unaware/surprised that there is a difference... well maybe a difference yes, but by such a
90 KiwiRob : All turbo diesels are easily tuned, for 4500NOK I can get a RICA chip for my V70, takes it from 175hp to 240hp, torque jumps from 420NM to 475NM.
91 sprout5199 : The dept I work for has gone to all LEDs. Cost isnt that much more than strobes or hal. lights. They stand up to shock 100x greater than strobes. We
92 LOT767-300ER : As you can see, a response from me isnt even worth it. We have people who claim that changing synthetic oil every 7000 miles is ridiculous. I already
93 sprout5199 : I think(I dont have a issued car) my dept went to 8k miles or 6 months. 3k was way too short(some cars would do that in 2-3 weeks). with a fleet of 1
94 LOT767-300ER : Yes, hence I just said typical 7k mile change for a regular synthetic.
95 sprout5199 : We dont even use synthetic--costs too much. The sh!t hot car here is the PP Tahoe. Guys say it will run rings around the crown vic. Dan in Jupiter
96 Post contains images WildcatYXU : Believe me, I was shocked too when I moved to Canada from Slovakia. The last car I had in Slovakia that required 5000 km oil change was a '71 Skoda 1
97 PHLBOS : Worth noting: the only reason WHY Chevy is even launching the Statesman/Caprice for the police market in the first place is because it is still contra
98 JJJ : Both are easily tuned. All turbo diesels are. Both have max torque at about 1500 rpm, then flat for most of the useable range.
99 Post contains images A342 : Hell, yes! I mean, WTF? Ok, maybe I should stop wondering about anything related to America AND cars. I do. Again, Or other types of "punishing" driv
100 WildcatYXU : Yes, there are some differences incomprehensible for Europeans. The most obvious is the combination of huge engines and ridiculously low speed. Well,
101 cptkrell : Awww...jeeze; I just had to jump into the oil change interval thing. On most newer cars/trucks the onboard computer will evaluate the service you are
102 Post contains links LOT767-300ER : What do you mean all types of oil? You mean like ATF, Gear Lube for Diffs, LSD additives etc? It all depends what kind of engine oil you are buying a
103 N1120A : No sir, I don't. That said, I can see how it was confusing. I don't know any cars that actually recommend that anymore. Jiffy Lube and other places t
104 LOT767-300ER : How? Even Highway Patrol sit in the median or on the side and constantly jump into their cars and do full power accelerations to catch up to the spee
105 bjcc : Whats all the fuss about? The Metropolitan Police, in the UK, used 1.1 ltr Metros (Europeans stop laughing please! Non Europeans who have now looked u
106 KiwiRob : But that Metro was a Panda car used for ordinary patrol work not a highway patrol or fast responce vehicle.
107 Post contains images swissy : Thanks LOT, fantastic stuff... have a question and maybe you have an answer... what about the "lower" grade fuel used in North America compare to Eur
108 WildcatYXU : You can say that just about any garage. Sometimes even knowing the mechanic won't help you.
109 Post contains images A342 : I mean all engine oil specifications. There's nothing that would prevent Wal-Mart from selling true synthetic 5W30 for a more reasonable price than o
110 Post contains images PHLBOS : While I realize that I would sooner see Sarah Palin and Nancy Pelosi switch political parties then your offering an apology; allow me to RE-POST your
111 Post contains links LOT767-300ER : Without dragging this farther. The EcoBoost V6 is far superior in performance than any equivalent diesel with 220-280hp. That car has a 0-60 thats in
112 bjcc : Kiwirob It was intended as a message car (pandas bit the dust in the early 80's), but, as with all plans that went out the window, very quick. The are
113 aero145 : I know I am late into this discussion, and my post is also a bit off-topic, but... ...why do we have 140 HP Diesel Passat station wagons while you hav
114 cptkrell : aero145: Sometimes in the USA officers need a humongous petrol sedan when the helicopters an'it available. Lots of times officers must "race" lots of
115 Post contains images Super80DFW : Oops.
116 Flighty : Because Americans are totally out of touch with their horsepower needs? I have a 200hp sedan that's got so much extra power that it's a joke. It can
117 LOT767-300ER : It isnt about the speed. Its about the size. Theres plenty of high speed interceptors. European cops have 1/2 the gear the average Americans one have
118 Flighty : Important stuff. But the Crown Vic is going out of production. It will be great to watch at least 3 manufacturers scramble to give police and others
119 LOT767-300ER : Thats the selling point of the Caprice, its the size, its also why I predict (and actually its quite apparent from this thread that its not just my o
120 Flighty : Yeah but I see a lot of uncommon stuff on TV that actually isn't that common in the real world. But I have never been a cop. I have observed a lot of
121 LOT767-300ER : Have you ever been caught by the police for a traffic violation in Europe and been asked as is SOP in my countries to sit in the back of the police c
122 columba : This is even more an argument for a diesel powered car, if you have to drive long distances a diesel is the most fuel efficient way. Modern diesels a
123 KiwiRob : An AWD V6 Passat weights around 3600 pounds, as a wagon you end up with a vehicle with far more space and versitility than a Crown Vic. I'm sure VW w
124 PHLBOS : While that all may be true; at present, there are still some hurdles that diesel-powered cars, as a whole, need to overcome in the U.S. 1. Regulatory
125 Flighty : Agreed. The South Africa example is a good one. My perspective comes from airlines. The best tool for the job is one that gets the job DONE for the l
126 PHLBOS : Fair enough. Usually, such police vehicle experimentations in the past have been performed by both the Michigan State Police and CHP. It was the resu
127 petertenthije : .While true, I think that you also have to consider that when situations get challenging back-up is requested anyway. If you look at those "real life
128 KiwiRob : I can assure you that the St Petersburg police do not use Crown Vic's, not once in my 20 plus trips to Russia in the past 2.5 years have I ever seen
129 PHLBOS : I can't speak for Europe; but in the States, many police department and agencies don't have the luxury nor space to have multiple types of vehicles p
130 N1120A : Huh? We have had TDIs for close to 20 years.
131 LOT767-300ER : No one is arguing whether a wagon is going to have more space than a sedan, just like no one is going to want to service an AWD Passat as a fleet veh
132 2707200X : The Carbon E7 looks like something right out of Robocop.
133 Post contains links and images LOT767-300ER : You do know BTW that most of the German police cars are leased from the manufacturer? I bet you did not even realize that reflective tapings in many
134 KiwiRob : you really do exaggerate, since when does 30% (as stated in the article) equal most, rather like the Crown Vic boot having quite a bit more space tha
135 Post contains links LOT767-300ER : How do you get the a number such as 23 liters from 535L (Caprice Statesman Trunk Size) vs. 595L (Crown Vic Size). 6.7L Cummins = 650lb/ft torque V10
136 melpax : The standard cop car in Australia is the Holden Commodore(Pontiac G8), so it's slightly smaller than the Statesman(Caprice). Most forces here run a c
137 KiwiRob : My mistake I was reading a webpage where the author was comparing all the current and future US police vehicles, his dimensions for the boot in the Ca
138 Post contains links LOT767-300ER : Clue me in on which one that is then: http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/touareg/which-model/engines/torque The top that I see is 590lb/ft. Am I missi
139 Flighty : Uhhh.... one is a pretty serious crime. The other you'd probably be charged with attempted murder. It really can't happen "every week." If it did, th
140 KiwiRob : The last engine listed, 350PS, not sure what formula VW are using to convert torque to lb/ft because 850nm x 1.35582 equals 626.9 not 590 as stated.
141 Post contains images stasisLAX :
142 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : What does a V12 have to do anything? That V12 has less torque than a Caterpillar C7 I can buy in a big ass F-Series. Whats your point. 2nd of all, yo
143 KiwiRob : The Cat is a commercail vehicle engine built for commercial vehicles, whereas the Audi V12 isn't, what is your point. So it's a Flat 6 like a Porsche
144 Post contains images Mortyman : Dodge Viper Limousine [Edited 2010-03-20 23:30:07]
145 Post contains images Mortyman : He. he
146 Post contains links and images Daleaholic : Audi Q7 anybody?
147 Post contains images PHLBOS : I should have clarified (my bad & apologies) in my earlier post and inserted the word current between VW and TDI (which I believe stands for Turb
148 Post contains links and images keesje : I think the Audi S8 has a better senior, distinctive look, still it's fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_vYtm_2z9o[Edited 2010-03-22 13:26:42]
149 racko : Heard on the news tody that the Carbon Motors car is going to use BMW Diesels.
150 Post contains links LOT767-300ER : I especially like the user comments here about the E7: http://jalopnik.com/5498991/carbon-m...bmw-diesel-engines-for-new-cop-car
151 Kent350787 : I can't work out from the BMW USA website - do they manufacture the 3.0l diesel in Spartanburg NC, or just import and assemble?
152 racko : As far as I know all the bigger Diesels are made in Steyr, Austria.
153 Flyingwaeldar : That's correct and media in Austria report that BMW and US Carbon Motors have inked a deal for 240.000 engines including gearbox and drivetrains. The
154 melpax : The RRP of a Statesman is AUD$63K for the V6 or AUD$67K with the V8. In Super Luxury Caprice trim, you're looking at approx 71K for the V6, or 75K fo
155 CaliAtenza : Why doesnt Ford just continue the Crown Vic for police depts? All the Police Depts love em anyways, why mess with a good thing??
156 KiwiRob : Because it's old, the current model dates from 1998, the platform it's build on is a relic from the ark and dates to 1978. It's very old technology, n
157 Post contains links Braniff747SP : Ok, According to TopGear, the Carbon will be powered by a BMW diesel, as well as a BMW trany: Fair use: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/carbon-cop-
158 JJJ : There's turbo and twin turbo versions. The twin gets 300+ hp and 440 lb-ft, single roughly 250 hp and 380lb-ft. They can obviously be tuned different
159 A342 : BMW doesn't manufacture their own auto transmissions. However, they are contracted to deliver the entire drivetrain and will therefore integrate the
160 Post contains images Braniff747SP : Excuse my ignorance, cars are not my strong point.
161 A342 : No need to excuse yourself. Reading that article, you can indeed easily get the impression that BMW manufactures their own auto transmissions.
162 LOT767-300ER : Doubt it if the costs will stay down. If this car even makes it to the real world, which I doubt, especially at a realistic price Id put my moneys wo
163 A342 : Yes, the 6L50 is already being used by BMW. But according to wikipedia, it can only handle 332 ft·lbf (450 Nm) of torque, which is not enough for a
164 Post contains links GerbenYYZ : Here is a nice collection of police cars from around the world... http://autos.ca.msn.com/photos/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=20622604 Not sure I'd like
165 czbbflier : This might seem a bit petty and even OT but I wonder if Renault has an issue with the Carbon logo? Or maybe Carbon.... I wonder if they have thought o
166 stealthz : Have not read this whole thread but I think GM are still planning on selling Aus. sourced vehicles in the USA if not for police then open market cars.
167 Ltbewr : Many local and other police forces in North America have gone to SUV's as they offer the room for the cops and arrested persons as well as equipment,
168 PHLBOS : Actually, police/special service packaged mid-size SUVs that have existed for years have essentially disappeared. Production of the Chevy TrailBlazer
169 Kent350787 : Does the GM vehicle offend you in the same way - only the engine/transmission is US made (in the V8 at least). I do understand that the Elizabeth, So
170 GuitrThree : Around here, the Ft. Campbell Military Police use Tahoes. And even cooler, the Tennessee State Troopers have a few running around too. Besides that,
171 Post contains images cpd : Caprice is 5 star rated, if that is a consolation. Though a Police version will surely miss out on curtain airbags and maybe side airbags too. And if
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