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Health Care Reform Passed!  
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

Woohoo! 219-212 in favor in the House to approve the Senate HCR bill. Vote on reconciliation measures coming up later tonight.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/...alth.care.latest/index.html?hpt=T1


Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
293 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6623 times:

           
. Great job to our gov't. every republican voted Nay? Didn't see that coming.   



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2877 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6621 times:

My life has been unwillingly voted to the devil, on the flip side, maybe my pay towards benefits will be switched back to me since health care is "guaranteed."


LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6567 times:

It's about time this happened.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

While it is a step in the right direction, this bill does not cover enough people and doesn't seem to do anything to lower costs immediately. Maybe that is just my understanding. Good job on passing the bill, but I sure wish they would have tried to push through something stronger.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 4):
Good job on passing the bill, but I sure wish they would have tried to push through something stronger.

I agree. I definitely wish this went much farther than it does. Still it's nice to see some reform.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

Despite the passage of the Senate bill, the related bill vote to require reconciliation is becoming a major battle point by Republicans, especially as to Abortion and any use of Federal monies to pay for them, even indirectly. Despite the bill being passed tonight, it still faces massive challanges, dirty politics and probably many millions in lobbying. Worse, it will delay doing the right thing - to make sure everyone has access to affordable health care.

User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 4):
While it is a step in the right direction, this bill does not cover enough people and doesn't seem to do anything to lower costs immediately.

Re: lowering costs - yes, the bill as a whole doesn't, but that's because it balances one necessary but cost-increasing step (banning pre-existing condition discrimination) with a cost-mitigating step (the individual mandate). Together, they about cancel out. But yeah, cost control is the next big step.

Also - the solution that was worked out to the abortion question was that Obama will sign an executive order forbidding the use of federal funds for abortion. NOW and NARAL are pissed about it, but the Republicans are arguing that an executive order is easily changed later on and is therefore insufficient protection against federally funded abortions. Just goes to show that a good compromise is one where both sides are angry about it.  Smile

[Edited 2010-03-21 20:14:29]


Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlinesv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):
Woohoo! 219-212 in favor in the House to approve the Senate HCR bill. Vote on reconciliation measures coming up later tonight.

Yeah wait until you get the bill in a few years. Passing off a bill as "Deficit reduction" by using sham accounting is something that will have to be reckoned with one day, sooner than later. Nothing like collecting revenues for the first 4 years to cover up the fact it will cost the taxpayers a fortune, and that's not even accounting the Medicare Doctor Fix cuts that they'll have to pass...


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6455 times:

Congratulations on this difficult, but ultimately successful birth!   

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6454 times:

I'm wondering who yelled, "BABYKILLER!" - Joe Wilson Moment.

User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 2021 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

Yippee. More of my freedom taken away. I can't wait to get to the hospital.


Hopefully the courts will do their part in the triangle of power and defeat the sickeningly unconstitutional bill.


User currently offlinesv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6373 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 11):
Yippee. More of my freedom taken away. I can't wait to get to the hospital.

The funny part will be when 15 or so million people who are forced onto Medicaid because of this bill get a rude introduction to doctors who refuse the insurance and underfunded mandates from the States...That's the reason States are furious over this bill because they will be left with a huge tab.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8481 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6340 times:

There has now been a vote for the Senate Bill in both houses and this bill will go to the President. Legally he could sign it in the next few minutes, but believe he will wait until some supporters are able to come to the White House.

The House will soon vote on the :Fix It" Bill, which will include reform of student loans as well as the House's changes for the Senate Bill. There has been a letter signed by 50+ Democrat Senators assuring the House of their support. Those against the Bill can delay the reconciliation, but they cannot beat it.

Essentially all this means is that there has been a start at changing health care in this country. There are a lot of different opinions on this, but I believe this step provides a more suitable foundation for changes that will come from both sides of the aisle in the future.

I would also note that this vote is a huge victory for the first woman to be the Speaker of the House. Like her or hate her she has achieve a historic victory, and will go down in history as such.


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6315 times:

Let the Tea Partyers begin with cries of socialism, and godless babykillers in ten, nine, eight......

The U.S, now joins other highly developed nations with a healthcare plan that will allow for coverage of ALL of it's citizens, despite their pre-existing conditions and makes coverage available based on their ability to pay - sounds alot like a 40 year old program called Medi-Care, doesn't it. Now the fools in Washington can focus on getting the US economy moving again.... oh wait, its an election year.... nevermind!   



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineiwenttoYXEonce From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Yeah, health care for the people with bankrupt America. The U.S. now will have less money to fight wars.  

[Edited 2010-03-21 20:24:02]

[Edited 2010-03-21 20:24:24]

User currently offlineGatorFan From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

Anyone want to bet that 10 years from today, we'll see that the estimates on the cost of this were wrong by a factor of more than 100%?

User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6282 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
We will also see increased medical tourism and a black market develop in this country.

I don't think we read the same bill . . .

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
And this doesn't even get into the unethical practices that the democrats used to ram this travesty to this point.

I wish the Democrats had not used that procedure. And I wish the Republicans hadn't used it dozens of times when they were in power either.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
The US goverment has effectively taken over 1/5th of the economy of this country.

How? There is not even a public option in this plan.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Obama is not my president, he is a socialist piece of scum and an parriah on the nation. I will hate him untill he dying day.

Feel free to leave anytime you want. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Obama is not a socialist. This bill is more conservative than Republicans like Romney, McCain, and Nixon proposed. This isn't even a moderate bill. Read up on history, then come back and talk. Don't like him? Fine. That is your right.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinesv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6281 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
The US goverment has effectively taken over 1/5th of the economy of this country. We can look forward to worse health care service, less invovation in medicines and techniques, much higher taxes and rationing of what services are better.

They already had a large role in it with Medicaid, Medicare, S-CHIP, so it's essentially more of the same. They're essentially shoving 15 million people on Medicaid and forcing the rest to buy insurance. It's a parrot of RomneyCare in Massachusetts that has MA residents paying the highest premiums in the US.

I'd be more concerned with the trend. First the Mortgage/Housing Markets, the Auto Industry, Healthcare, and next up is the Student Loan industry. There's nothing wrong with have social services/benefits, but in an era of multi-trillion dollar deficits, people have to be fools to believe the international community is going keep buying our Debt. The emperor has no clothes and people here don't want to face up to that fact yet...

With the deficits what they are, our day of reckoning is coming soon.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9292 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6260 times:

The party of no has been told no, you canot kill this bill. I am not a fan of Nancy Pelosi, but she got the job done. The move to re-submit has failed also. On to the Senate and then the President.  


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8976 posts, RR: 39
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6262 times:

Quoting iwenttoYXEonce (Reply 16):
The U.S. now will have less money to fight wars.

Now that may be a positive thing. Well, maybe not with Bernanke at the printing presses. . .



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineairTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6263 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It's a sad day for America. I can't even do describe my contempt for those who passed this bill.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6247 times:

If I could just take a phrase from the conservatives during the Iraq war and Bush administration:

"IF you don't like it, than you can just GET OUT!"

Have a nice evening.


User currently offlinewolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

Yes you can!!

Congratulations to President Obama for making the US a more civilised country and for standing firm against the despicable campaign of fear mongering and intimidation waged by the Republican right wing.

True Presidential leadership in action.

[Edited 2010-03-21 20:30:42]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8481 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
The US goverment has effectively taken over 1/5th of the economy of this country. We can look forward to worse health care service, less invovation in medicines and techniques, much higher taxes and rationing of what services are better.

The call of misery is 16%, not 20%. And the 16% conveniently ignores the federal dollars going to medical care for the people. What have we got?

- Medicare paymetns
- Medicaid paymetns
- VA Médical
- Children's Health
- Indian Health Clinics
- Government employee health insurance
- Military Health

We're paying out far more than we think.


25 ATTart : A great day in America!!
26 Post contains images OA412 : Yes what a sad day indeed when people in this country don't have to worry about whether or not they will have health insurance.
27 STT757 : Next up, education reform.
28 Klaus : If you cannot live with being the opposition every once in a while, your only choice will be a dictatorship of your liking. Is that what you're advoc
29 Post contains links sv7887 : The same Medicare that is trending towards bankruptcy? And a bill that will result in higher premiums for most Americans? http://themoderatevoice.com
30 Post contains images Cadet57 : A dark day for the US. And you're happy?
31 WarRI1 : I think it is a great day for the US. Whether you like it or not, he is your President, elected by the people of the US. Now if you want to give up y
32 Post contains images JakeOrion : Are any members in Congress going to be under this health care plan? If not, that should be a immediate to all of you if this bill is "so great!"
33 StuckInCA : I really don't understand the resistance to this bill or other healthcare reform. What, specifically, is scaring people? Even if it's broken, we can h
34 pgh234 : I am a registered democrat...am I not allowed to hate this bill too? Party politics have obliterated common sense. 1) There is no such thing as a fre
35 MSPNWA : Kinda of agree there. I'd say he's more of a communist. Yeah, instead they will worry about getting fined if they desire freedom.
36 sv7887 : No, but they'll have to worry about rising premiums, Doctors that won't accept Medicaid, and of course the national debt rising to unsustainable leve
37 futurepilot16 : They are scared that the gov't is getting too much power. They don't care that tens of millions of people who can't afford health care, can finally g
38 L-188 : Completely ignoring the fact I vote AIP. Why the hell should I leave, Obama is the one that sucks. He needs to go back to his native-born Kenya and s
39 2707200X : Not a bad day, it took long but this reform no matter how imperfect it is, it is better than no reform and dismissal of people from their insurance co
40 MSPNWA : That's incorrect. He's not my president, as he is ineligible to be in that position. To be truthful everything he has signed is invalid. I don't have
41 Post contains images Cadet57 : BINGO. I too live in MA and the year this passed my copay for going to the doctor went from $10 to $25. Can't wait to see this on a national level
42 sv7887 : Tens of millions? The best number is 8-14 million from the Kaiser Family Institute which is hardly a conservative mouthpiece. And those "millions" yo
43 AGM100 : They will .... the ones who pay the bills will . With a super majority .... what the hell took em so long ? Oh ya , the indivduals had to get the pay
44 L-188 : Only works if the opposition has the power to stop up the works. Unfortunately so many stupid people voted democrat in the last election just to spit
45 pgh234 : Conservatives eliminated all of the well paying manufacturing jobs in the US that these tens of millions of people used to have to get health care. L
46 JakeOrion : We can't. There is absolutely no way to pay for this program. CA is ruined beyond belief, NY is quickly following and several other states are in ver
47 L-188 : And then the lawsuits starts. Hopefully the courts will recognize the graft and bribery and unconstiutional processes that where used to pass this an
48 Post contains images National757 : You know what's the best part of this whole HCR fiasco.. Liberals/Dems are just as f*cked as the GOP and Independents and they don't even realize it!
49 WarRI1 : And the proof, the documentation? He is the President, duly elected, live with it.
50 futurepilot16 : Dude you're out of your mind. Are you telling me that out of 300 millions Americans, only 8-14 million people can't afford healthcare? That number is
51 JakeOrion : Include Republicans too. They had the opportunity to do something about it when they were in power and yet did nothing. That makes them garbage in my
52 DfwRevolution : It's interesting that Democrats put the creation of a massive new spending program ahead of the recovery of our economic vitality and job markets. Re
53 texan : Ok, so you don't know what Communism and Socialism are. No biggie. This bill is conservative by any means. It increases the number of people who have
54 texan : I had private insurance and my copay went from $20 to $40. But then I couldn't afford my insurance any more. So now I'm on the Republican health care
55 Klaus : You both appear to be entirely oblivious to the actual meaning of your statements. "Socialism" and "communism" actually aren't empty shell words symb
56 CometII : Could that be because after 8 years of Republican stewardship the United States was left on it's economic knees in the fall of 2008 around election t
57 Post contains links sv7887 : Even Obama doesn't claim 45Million because of the 20% of the uninsured who are well above the Poverty line and choose not to have it. And no, I'm not
58 WarRI1 : No doubt about that. Does this mean Walmart will have to pay out money for their servants healthcare? Wondeful!
59 Post contains links sv7887 : No, but they start collecting the taxes immediately to pay for it. Not to mention the sweetheart deal the unions got on their Cadillac Health Plans.
60 Post contains images Andaman : Congratulations!
61 Post contains images BMI727 : As far as the rest of it, just put it on our tab. Signed, People born after 1980
62 Klaus : No. Being in the opposition sucks, but it means living with not being able to block anything if the voters have chosen it that way. I am currently in
63 Post contains images WarRI1 : Thank you, now you see what we are up against sometimes. Just a little bit harsh to me, the second rate nation bit.
64 Klaus : We don't let our lower-income or even poor remain uninsured and have their health in free fall until only emergency care can prevent the ultimate wor
65 wolbo : Clearly you are just spewing out terms without having the faintest clue what they actually mean. Why is it that members of extreme political right wi
66 Post contains images stasisLAX : You're welcome from the people that won the war against fascism and the Cold War against the Soviets so you folks born after 1980 could live in freed
67 Post contains images OA412 : So you don't understand communism... My premiums have gone up every year for the last 3 years, as have my copays, and my deductibles. They are quickl
68 futurepilot16 : They just don't know because they're that ignorant.
69 ipodguy7 : If Obama's government taking away 40% of my fathers hard earned salary away for the "sake of the people" isn't MARXISM than I don't know that is? Adol
70 Post contains links sv7887 : Neither do we...It's called Medicaid, and 15 million of those uninsured are about to be put on it. And you're wrong about about them being in poor he
71 Klaus : Sure. Meaning 12% are already in free fall, the remaining 88% one unforeseen serious health problem away from ruin.
72 Speedbird741 : My God....The great USA took yet another step in looking like europe, all I can say is GOOD LUCK to you all. As far as healthcare goes....just wait ti
73 sv7887 : Trillions? You'll have a hard time proving that figure. And our entitlement programs make up more than FIFTY percent of the US budget.. The Military
74 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Can certainly be achieved without the means used in this health care bill.... In other words: rush something out the door and fix it later. That is n
75 Post contains images Alias1024 : Your complaint is that they put health care reform before economic reform. So you are saying that liberals prioritized preserving life over preservin
76 Klaus : And you should draw consolation from the fact that providing proper healthcare actually wasn't the reason why their names are mentioned with terror a
77 JakeOrion : Question; with no economy to pay for it, wouldn't it mean more eventual deaths due to the lack of funding?
78 Post contains images OA412 : Then please, provide us all with the correct number. No, I'm against a large army that we don't need, not against us having an appropriately sized mi
79 sv7887 : That's quite a leap of logic on your part and conveniently forgets about Medicaid and the numerous state programs as a safety net. Of course Medicare
80 Post contains images Andaman : I think that bitter guy ranks my country even lower... Anyway, I don't get how it would had been better to leave millions of citizens without a healt
81 OA412 : What do you do about those who cannot afford private health insurance, yet don't qualify for Medicaid?
82 Alias1024 : So your argument is that without government intervention, the economy of the United States will collapse?
83 Klaus : Improving the efficiency of bureaucracies can be very complex and time-consuming if you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Given th
84 JakeOrion : On this train of thought, I find it very ironic how I cannot find any government sources of various countries health care yet find only a vast wealth
85 JakeOrion : It's already collapsing WITH government intervention, so I'll ask again; if nobody is making money, how is the government going to afford this health
86 Klaus : What do you think health insurance is for? If people knew for sure that they or their children(!) could never get sick, there would be no need for re
87 sv7887 : That is patently not true. If that were the case, only the "wealthy" would be able to go to top Hospitals like Mass General or Johns Hopkins in the U
88 Mir : One of its larger failings. Overall, I'm glad this got done, though it could have, and should have, been a lot better. -Mir
89 sv7887 : And you continue to ignore the probabilities. Yes insurance exists for the reasons you state. But what is the percentage of my getting seriously ill
90 Klaus : The average of all healthcare is not favourable for the USA right now – neither the effective quality of care nor the exorbitant cost which is a mu
91 texan : I think it is a case where your father should recalculate his income tax since the maximum tax bracket is 35%, and that is for those earning over $37
92 Klaus : Which is a stupid system because it almost automatically bankrupts non-wealthy pensioners (the same applies to private insurance in Germany – which
93 sv7887 : I'm very sorry to hear this, and I hope things work out for you. I went through a nasty unemployment spell of 13 months myself and it was extremely p
94 Post contains images johnboy : To me it's a win-win situation......we provide healthcare to the great majority of citizens of this great country AND i get to witness the usual suspe
95 NIKV69 : America lost today. A out of control inept congress put chest thumping and political posturing ahead of the people and a president that will do anythi
96 sv7887 : This is very similar to what happened in Massachusetts. I don't have a problem with what you're saying at all. No one who pays their premiums should
97 F9Animal : I read, and have been told that if you do not accept this plan, you can be jailed for up to 5 years? For the first time in my life, I feel like I am
98 AirlineBrat : I no longer feel nervous about treating my 225/125 blood pressure. I was afraid that if I went to the doctor to treat my illness, it would put me in t
99 Post contains images F9Animal : Hey, if they legalize marijuana, maybe the proceeds can pay for health care? Half of the nation would be too high to realize they are sick... And now
100 TLG : My family has used Medicaid in the past, and we've never seen any difference in the care we received. And I live in the Upper Midwest, which has some
101 sv7887 : They'll just fine you I think, which will be enforceable by the IRS. They're not going to toss you in jail unless you refuse to pay the fine. Basical
102 Post contains links JakeOrion : NIK, if people want to enjoy this moment, let them. They wanted this bad enough, let them (unfortunately along with us) suffer the consequences that
103 L-188 : Well said! Yup, either except the federal rationing of your health care or go to prison. IF you had just chosen to go for a walk once in a while you
104 Post contains links sv7887 : It depends on how well your particular State has funded their Medicaid programs. It would be interesting to see the numbers for your particular state
105 texan : As one who promoted a more effective plan -- either public option or, preferably, single payer -- this plan does nearly nothing I want it to. If it f
106 Mir : Not entirely off topic - just as you were predicting gloom and doom back then and it didn't pan out that badly, those who are predicting gloom and do
107 Post contains links and images Alias1024 : Not according to the economic indications that show the economy is GROWING. http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm In the lo
108 JakeOrion : Which, I hoped to have proved just a moment ago with my previous post. This one I'll have to give at least two years. I was early for my previous pos
109 Post contains images OA412 : Oh really? Why don't I have a clue? Because you disagree with me? That doesn't mean that I don't have a clue, it means that our opinions on the matte
110 DocLightning : The CBO is a non-partisan entity. There is no agenda there. They see ~200B deficit reduction. I believe the ARRA was passed well before this bill. Or
111 sv7887 : Problem is nothing has been done to prevent such a thing from happening again. The Investment Banks are doing quite well again (just look at Goldman'
112 JakeOrion : When you throw that much cash into it, one would hope it "grow." However, this is a "false" growth, as it is capitalizing on money that is non-existe
113 DXing : 178 Republicans and 34 Democrats voted against the bill. Guess that makes it a bipartisan opposition. After 2018, according to the plan, States have
114 Post contains links sv7887 : I'm not saying they were partisan, they simply have to take the bill at face value. The bill as structured immediately starts collecting tax revenues
115 EA CO AS : To quote a Star Wars movie: "So this is how freedom dies - to thunderous applause." Thank you Congress and Mr. President - I've obviously been keeping
116 UAXDXer : So glad that I live in the Republic of Texas and that Rick Perry is my President!
117 Post contains links Speedbird741 : They also see premiums rising. Also, like I said, there is no way you can reduce deficit whilst insuring more people. Only way to do that is lowering
118 Post contains images KPDX : YOU guys are sounding like the racists, if thats the first thing that came to your head. WOW, someone doesn't agree with a Liberal. Lets freak out an
119 Klaus : He himself was claiming this: The US Supreme Court has explicitly certified Obama's eligibility. What else but open racism is still in play to make a
120 kaitak : Possibly, but by how much were the estimates for the Iraq war out? And at the end of that (which of course we haven't seen yet), how much will have b
121 EA CO AS : So someone who disagrees with the President is automatically a racist?
122 OA412 : Run that by me again? How does believing that some opposition to Obama is racist make me a racist? That's right it doesn't, but I suppose you didn't
123 KiwiinOz : Congrats USA, and welcome to the developed world!
124 NIKV69 : Yea where the government takes 60% what you make and you have little or no chance to get ahead? Real developed.
125 OA412 : I would be shocked if both of those do not happen.
126 KPDX : Ok look, I'll be honest, I should have used a different choice of words.... With that said, I do agree there are SOME wackos like that, but c'mon, yo
127 Klaus : [Edit: my attribution of the claim had been incorrect by association] He doesn't merely "disagree" with Obama, he has made the absolute claim that Ob
128 KPDX : Also I must add, it's pretty sickening to see the true colors of quite a few folks in this thread. The real victory is the war when it comes to "Democ
129 OA412 : Again, that's not what I'm suggesting. There are many people who are opposed to Obama and his policies for legitimate reasons that have nothing to do
130 EA CO AS : While I don't agree with the suggestion that the President's election was somehow illlegitimate, I have an equal - if not greater - disagreement with
131 Post contains links Andaman : I don't know what's wrong in Portugal but the Finnish public system works ok, for me at least... In the past couple of years I have needed health car
132 Klaus : No, it is not, given recent behaviour of the associates of the new republican mainstream. The birther theories have been utterly debunked and obliter
133 DocLightning : It doesn't say what those treatments are or whether they are necessary. Surgery to, say, repair a torn rotator cuff isn't absolutely necessary. One o
134 Alias1024 : You will get no argument from me on this point. This is a problem that needs to be fixed. Right now the brakes have been put on this market as banks
135 Post contains images ProPilot83 : Thank God, finally after 100 years of worry, concern, and debate, this great country called "America" finally has a health care system in place. Screw
136 Post contains images TheCommodore : Congratulation's America !!
137 Klaus : The claim of illegitimacy uses a precise and specific term. This is not just a matter of diffuse anger. With Bush the doubts about the legitimacy of
138 UAXDXer : Any guess as to how long it will be before the government passes laws banning tabacco, alcohol, red meat, donuts, french fries, ect, ect in order to k
139 KiwiinOz : Well, it hasn't happened in any of the other countries that have universal health care, so it would be surprising if it happened in USA. Typically, t
140 TheCommodore : What about Genes and not the sort you wear ! If your going to be that pedantic then shoot us all now and get it over and down with !
141 Post contains images EA CO AS : It absolutely is. You're just trying to keep the discussion off-topic by accusing those who disagree of racism. Many extremists on the left claimed i
142 Daleaholic : I'm not replying to anybody specific but just the American users who seem to think this is a bad thing... How can something which saves lives be a bad
143 slz396 : Why keep debating and discussing the matter over and over again?? The law was passed in Congress and will soon be signed into law by the president. It
144 Klaus : Absolutely not. The specific claim was made that Obama's presidency was illegitimate and no substantiation given. In 2000 the highly dubious circumst
145 sebolino : Congratulations ! A great move for the American people.
146 RussianJet : Congratulations America. A pity, but no great surprise, that there is so much bitterness flying around
147 NA : Very good. Its about time as the US was the only major country cultivating third world standards in this respect for much to long. The only ones again
148 Post contains images oa260 : Very true shame that its so bitter. Congratulations to Obama and the Democrats, steering the USA in a more just direction.
149 Post contains images EA CO AS : I never said there were any valid reasons to question the President's legitimacy - only that those who do are most likely merely grasping at straws i
150 MadameConcorde : I did not read through the whole thread. I am not sure if this question was asked. I cannot say if this is good or bad. Like every political decision
151 ohthedrama747 : So Canada and the majority of Western Europe is second rate? Exactly how do you fathom this you woefully ignorant person? It's people like you who gi
152 Ltbewr : This is a terribly flawed bill that I think will be watered down further and made even worse over the next few years as Republicans will use it to reg
153 RussianJet : Total rubbish and utterly offensive. If ever there was a single line that warranted the discrediting of any words ever written by that person - it wa
154 Post contains images TransIsland : Dissatisfied righties are invited to join us in the Bahamas: 1. No income tax. 2. Private health insurances take hundreds of your dollars (I pay about
155 Klaus : In contrast to the poster above, I have not categorically made a final conclusion without backing it up... ...but under the circumstances (especially
156 oa260 : LOL... thanks for the laugh. The problem is that many Americans have an ignorant warped view of their own self importance and it reflects in their fo
157 jush : Way to go America. In 10 years time everyone in America will say that it was a rather good decision. And you won't be a socialist country... Regards j
158 Post contains images keesje : Congratulations America! You show the ability to make big changes. Must be a great day for Hillary too. I think the existing expensive and unsocial sy
159 Post contains images Klaus : Let's not get greedy. World peace may be the easier challenge to tackle by comparison...!
160 DXing : I'd be willing to bet in New York City if you combine the local, State, and Federal tax it comes to 60%. Immediately. Yep, why stop giving away freeb
161 slz396 : No it wasn't. The US Congress, representing the US people, voted on this law and they have passed it, so by definition a MAJORITY of the American peo
162 Post contains images Klaus : But contrary to your current health system, airbags, seatbelts, automatic circuit breakers and all the aviation safety mechanisms don't fail you just
163 Post contains images slz396 : "So let's not even try", is that the attitude you advocate? "We will never be able to do good for all, so let's not even try to do good for as many a
164 DXing : Contrary to popular belief, pre-exisiting conditions can still get insurance. They will pay more due to the fact that as in any insurance, if the ris
165 US330 : Interestingly that here I am 160 posts into this thread, and no one has asked for a link to see the actual bill that Obama will be signing. Anybody kn
166 DXing : I advocate using the market place, with the proper regulation, to solve the problem. I ride a motorcycle almost everywhere I go. When I do drive my t
167 Klaus : An insurance without a solidarity component (everybody sharing their risks so many will pay in vain but the ones in need will get help) is just worth
168 Post contains images Superfly : Awesome news! It's a step in the right direction.
169 DXing : Contract law is still alive and well in this country despite the administrations attempts to dismantle it via the home mortgage modification program.
170 Baroque : Yes, but the second bit is taking this pathetic compromise a little too far. Really interesting that the immediately following comment had a bald fac
171 Klaus : Then why aren't you concentrating on making the (generally necessary) bureaucracy more efficient? Crippling or destroying it is no solution – some
172 mt99 : Consider this: It will cost 1/4th of the was in Iraq. Plus Iraq has the added cost of how many American lives now?
173 slz396 : It's not like all private insurance companies will be nationalised and merged into one government-owned company, is it? All that will happen is that
174 Post contains links ATTart : I will let the video speak for itself.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI8qlbWytNs {
175 AverageUser : This is a mixed affair. The reform is a watered-down substitute for the simple system that is guaranteed to work effectively (everyone insured at the
176 Post contains links MadameConcorde : How did your congressman vote? This is the full list with the final vote results http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll165.xml Now trying to find a link
177 DXing : Again, if you add up the local, State, and Federal taxes in several States, you could easily hit the 60% rate. The GOP tried do that by introducing m
178 Klaus : As I've explained above: a) private bureaucracy isn't necessarily more efficient than the public one (often less so) b) eliminating public oversight
179 AverageUser : Is that the primary reason for your interest in health issues? Tending to sick people is actually a bit girlie is it not?
180 mt99 : Well, if Iraq end ups costing $5billion.. and with this you are paying $1 billion for 10 years of healtcare- that gets you pretty damn close to 50 ye
181 Post contains links Speedbird741 : As far as what the articles mention, I would consider Arthritis treatment necessary. Aside from that, if you lived in a country like Portugal or the
182 Post contains images RJ111 : Fantastic!
183 AverageUser : No need to worry, this is a "no insurance company left behind" decision. The surface may have been scratched, but the core remains unchanged.
184 Post contains links JakeOrion : One thing that bothers me about this bill: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...h-care-reform-bill-c_n_505128.html Who is thie 5% who will not be co
185 DXing : In our country private enterprise is almost always more efficient than government. Private enterprise can go out of business if they are not efficien
186 Post contains images slz396 : Regulation is a key part of every society. A regulated free market is still very different from a planned market. Didn't know the US Constitution has
187 mt99 : Ok.. ill give you a break.. it costs twice as much as advertised. $2Trillion per 10 years. That still gets us 25 years until it equals the war in Ira
188 Klaus : A huge part of the bill will be the healthcare and social collateral damage through wounded or mentally damaged servicemen and -women – this cost w
189 WestWing : I did an example calculation, for anyone that is interested in the actual tax rates. For an income of $166,800 earned by a single(unmarried) taxpayer
190 daedaeg : I hope this doesn't turn into yet another wasteful government program. I really wish more focus could have been on reducing cost, rather than trying t
191 Post contains images Acheron : I love how to this thread made the xenophobia and racism of some of the a.netters show up. Makes it more easier to spot who to take seriously.
192 AGM100 : You hope ...? Too late . Time for hoping is well past. My kids will be faced with another program that is like SS , MC ,... $110 Trillion dollar unfu
193 BMI727 : No, I don't care. If I want something, I will get it and pay for it thank you very much. I can get healthcare on my own without the government's inte
194 Post contains images slz396 : I thought it was all about WMD really... What a fantastic return on investment GWB got you there for your hard-earned tax money!
195 Post contains images slz396 : So if your home town is distroyed by an earthquake, or a hurricane, you'll happily decline any federal money to rebuild it too then I suppose? After
196 pgh234 : Exactly! Regardless of the happy touch-feely feelings you get when more people get health coverage, regardless of your feelings of the Iraq war, and
197 Post contains images EA CO AS : Using your same flawed "logic," the people of Germany were clearly in favor of Hitler's "Final Solution" - after all, he was elected Chancellor by a
198 futurepilot16 : Of course not. We can just be as a third world country and watch as those who are able to afford insurance flourish while the weak and poor and starv
199 TAZA : What a bargain! All this for only Nine Hundred and Forty Thousand Million. China must be licking its chops.
200 Post contains links and images Baroque : WRONG!!!!! Since Hindenberg had not received a majority of the vote, however, a runoff election had to be held among the top three vote-getters. On A
201 Post contains images AGM100 : Iraq WMD is a good comparison .... we are supposed to trust the democrats who by they're own admission were fooled into supporting the war by the "dum
202 pgh234 : No because you all keep selectively picking out stupid little points like that. Look at this on the macro level and please tell me ONE thing the gove
203 AverageUser : Perhaps each party should have their own Intelligence Service?
204 Baroque : No recent experience, but the US Postal Service used to be just fine. What they certainly can do in Aus is run much better superannuation systems tha
205 Post contains links EA CO AS : You're cherry-picking history - while you're correct about the vote in 1932, Hitler received a clear majority of the vote of the August 19, 1934 refe
206 Dreadnought : Question: What happens when millions of people who choose to pay the fine (it's cheaper than buying insurance) get sick and only then decide to buy he
207 pgh234 : That is the point!! ENRON and Lehman Bros failed because they were not run properly! Government does not fail...it just prints more money or takes on
208 slz396 : Both the turn-out and the result should be indicative of the fact that by then, democracy had already stopped to exist in Germany...
209 JakeOrion : Still waiting for an answer for this: Again, under eligible Americans, who is exempted from this coverage?
210 AGM100 : Good point ... and they have no answer. The only answer is that it will lead to the decapitation of the healthcare insurance companies. And that is t
211 NIKV69 : This talking point is so old you need to give it a rest. As you should bringing Bush into every discussion as a way to try to explain how Obama is go
212 AverageUser : There are anecdotal reports of real people having survived under such a system.
213 mt99 : Then you better stop talking about the deficit. Or you may continue to talk about it but please subtract $4 Trillion from it. No - just pointing out
214 Post contains links EA CO AS : Looks like at least ten states are prepared to take the federal government to court over this: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2215987420100322 f
215 Dreadnought : That is what Statists refuse to admit. That is not the question. Some people are perfectly willing to be subjects of their government rather than tha
216 Post contains links DXing : This is a planned market. HHS and the Health Commisioner will set policy on what constitutes a "health insurance plan". They will also investigate ra
217 NIKV69 : What does it have to with this? Your telling me since Bush spent all that money on the war it's ok for this bill? Scary. You passed this crap simply
218 mt99 : You finally get it! Are you saying you prefer money to be spent sending soldiers to war for no good reason than to give more Americans the ability to
219 Klaus : Sure. The point was the actual cost of the wars, which definitely includes these issues. (In comparison to the nominal impact of the new healthcare b
220 CPH-R : Am I the only one slightly disturbed by that Newsmax ad that occasionally appears at the top of this thread? You know, the one with the "Obamacare...
221 TransIsland : B.S. Talk about "cherry picking." Hitler came to power in January 1933. Every election or referendum after that was rigged, and before that he never
222 futurepilot16 : Doesn't matter. I think the ads are placed base on the titles of the threads, so whoever is following the thread would most likely take interest in t
223 Tommy767 : Ok so I've read some articles about the new bill and here's my situation: I'm 22 years old, and switching health care from an HMO to a PPO and paying
224 AverageUser : I wonder what would be the issue in healthcare if not healthcare itself? You'll need to allocate the resources fairly and evenly across the populatio
225 Dreadnought : Save money by paying the fine instead of insurance. If you get sick, you can buy insurance. When you are well again, dump the insurance. Isn't Obamac
226 AverageUser : Undumpable national insurance would have been the answer.
227 BMI727 : That is apples to oranges. Is it really too much to ask for people to buy the things that they want and not buy the things that they don't? Newsflash
228 starac17 : It's a great healthcare system if you have the money to pay for it, the reality however is that a vast majority of Americans (about 97-98% of them) c
229 WarRI1 : I support the health care bill. This bill was close to dead, and lo and behold, massive increases in premium requests for the insurance industry. tal
230 Post contains images BMI727 : What a silly idea. Pay for you and what you want and everyone else can pay for them and what they want. I don't have a responsibility to anyone other
231 PPVRA : On top of that, let's also turn a blind eye to the many corrupt governments of this world (well, all of them really). Or also the multi-billion dolla
232 Boeing1970 : You forgot to mention he's on his own until about 2014. Would have been so much easier and cost effective to do the following: 1. Deregulate insuranc
233 Post contains links stasisLAX : The Republicans cannot admit defeat on healthcare reform. Their lawyers are now mounting numerous legal challenges directed against the insurance mand
234 AverageUser : I thought corruption would be to your liking, as being corrupt is the state a government will naturally incline to if people are unwilling or unable
235 WarRI1 : Yes, it is a fine system for those who can pay for it, and thanks to the corporations sending our jobs overseas, fewer and fewer of us can pay for it
236 futurepilot16 : So you're saying that people don't want or need healthcare?
237 WarRI1 : Simplistic, it is one thing to make a buck, it is entirely another to make a buck on the backs of sick people. Instead of Marxist, how about Moral, c
238 PPVRA : Oh no, corruption is to your liking. Remember that it is you who does not want basic laws that apply to every citizen to also apply to "elected" citi
239 Dreadnought : The resistance is bipartisan and counts almost 40 states that have challenged the bill or are preparing to challenge. I have little doubt that this b
240 Speedbird741 : Let that be your opinion and not a fact. If bringing peace and democracy to a country that wasn't even in the 21st century yet is not a good reason,
241 WarRI1 : Now the question, why did the Republicans not do this when they had control of the Congress? All this bull came out after the Obama made healthcare r
242 Speedbird741 : VERY TRUE! But then again that's the way both parties work.
243 Boeing1970 : If you want to make everything a moral question then you need to pony up to provide everyone with a house, a car, food and clothes. You going to do t
244 PPVRA : That's a state matter, however. Texas did and Georgia did also.[Edited 2010-03-22 11:29:36]
245 AverageUser : I'm never quite sure what would be your ideal world, but in case it has something to do with egalitarianism, may I point out that the Nordic societie
246 starac17 : I agree with you for most things but not with healthcare, if a guy has to declare bankruptcy because he was financially irresponsible I agree that he
247 Boeing1970 : Watch for the handouts.... Insurance companies don't commit suicide for nothing. They did. Conservatives take baby steps rather than attempt hostle i
248 WarRI1 : Social Security, Medicare and now Healthcare, not Obama care, now let us get on to other more important items, jobs, economy, education, war on terro
249 WarRI1 : I agree, but the Democrats have done something about healthcare. Over the last 50 years, I have done my part, locally and Federally. That is a possib
250 EA CO AS : Not comparing the two at all - in fact, using that to point out the folly of a previous poster saying that because the members of Congress who rammed
251 Boeing1970 : Because Social Security and Medicare are such a success right? Yes, lets have a national referendum the next time the government wants to take over 2
252 Post contains links Speedbird741 : http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...n/daily_presidential_tracking_poll http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ.../september_2009/health_care_reform If
253 Acheron : Woah, you still believe that?. I cannot wait until the US brings freedom and democracy to Saudi Arabia. Oh yeah, it won't happen because that's bull!
254 WarRI1 : I made good money all my life, and I am here to say that SS and Medicare is a success, especially for those who did not make shit for wages. I speak
255 Boeing1970 : If it took 100 years, it would be 100 years too soon.
256 StuckInCA : Wait... that's all been happening for years. In a totally unsustainable fashion. Hence the need for something to change. Hell, even if all we did is
257 IMissPiedmont : Sorry if this simple question has already been asked but....... What has been reformed ? All I see is a new form of revenue for the government and a n
258 AverageUser : So what do people then need insurance companies for in the U.S.? Must be another deadend industry we can do away with.
259 WarRI1 : The voters elected the folks who passed this, deal with it. [quote=Speedbird741,reply=252]If it were for the voters yesterday this bill would not hav
260 starac17 : Some of the immediate stuff is good for the consumer and a step in the right direction such as: You're kids can remain on a parent's policy until the
261 Boeing1970 : They're both broke and broken. You call this success? New taxes for sure. Supposedly benefits in 2014. Outside of that???? Here's my money... This th
262 Speedbird741 : And the voters will elect them out in November if all goes well. Look at the graph I sent in the first link. It fluctuates up and down every week, bu
263 texan : To point one: great, so they can monopolize the industry and charge us even more. Brilliant idea. To point two: we have real tort reform in Texas. Me
264 Starbuk7 : Yep, Social Security works so well that I will probably NEVER see all the money I was forced to pay into it over all these years. Just like the "Brot
265 EA CO AS : Then perhaps you can tell me what part of the Constitution allows the government to make the purchase of a product mandatory?
266 texan : Or where does it say it cannot? Lacking a provision barring a statute from being constitutional, it will be read as constitutional. As far as I can t
267 Post contains images EA CO AS : So you believe the Constitution doesn't grant powers to Congress, it only tells them what they CANNOT do? Anything not expressly forbidden is just pe
268 Post contains images PlaneWasted : Congratulations to the US! Maybe you will pass Cuba on life expectancy now?
269 texan : I am speaking as an impartial observer of the Supreme Court. The Court examines what is in the Constitution. If the Constitution does not forbid an a
270 Dreadnought : Depends if you have liberal/activist judges in place, and that's a whole other subject. Suffice it to say that the Constitution was written to list c
271 TheCol : Even though I think the Democrats made a mistake by rushing this bill, I think it looks good overall. That being said, everything looks good on paper.
272 Post contains images Ken777 : Haven't seen this years numbers, but last year the Health Insurance CEOs had the largest median income of all business sectors in this country. The a
273 texan : Cfalk, it has nothing to do with "liberal/activist" judges and a lot to do with how judges in general read the Constitution. I'm assuming the most ob
274 Post contains links Yellowstone : This misconception has shown up a couple of times in this thread, so I should probably correct it. The income tax was legal before the passage of the
275 Yellowstone : Additionally, the fine you will have to pay if you fail to purchase insurance will be collected through the tax system - when filling out your 1040,
276 texan : Unless you reduce costs even further, which everybody agrees needs to happen. I proposed steps to reduce costs earlier and which should have broad ap
277 starac17 : While Canada's system does have it's problems that need addressing but the root of the system is still sound and efficiencies can always be made with
278 iowaman : This bill is completely unconstitutional and I am going to start counting down the days til we can vote this guy out of office. This is another blow t
279 BMI727 : Then add a safety net to take care of such eventualities, but requiring everyone to have health insurance plans approved by the government is a bit m
280 Klaus : As will the cost for the wars, as I have explained before.
281 EA CO AS : However, the healthcare bill cost will FAR outpace any increase in long-term care for vets and/or other long-term costs for the Iraq war. And again,
282 Ken777 : Long term costs, which will focus on taking care of the veterans, will continue for decades. (We're down to a handful of WW I Vets these days.) Not,
283 mt99 : Think about bang for the buck though. It may eventually overtake it ( in 35? 50 years? - give me a number) but you would have helped people live heal
284 NIKV69 : It is what we gave Iraq. People are actually voting and not just having Saddam assuming control. It wasn't about what Iraq could give us. Even though
285 mt99 : So you are OK with signing trillion of dollars for a cause. Great. Health care has been the cause of many people for many many years. What makes your
286 EA CO AS : One's in the Constitution and one isn't? How about that for starters?
287 mt99 : So its in the constitution to attack Canada too.. Lets go for it!
288 Dreadnought : Actually no. As I have explained on this forum many times, I am fully in favor of universal coverage via an individual mandate, because that is the o
289 texan : We agree on this for the most part. I had some ideas earlier that should lower costs and I'm interested to know what you think (really, I'd welcome f
290 charles79 : A bit late but I'll add my voice of congratulations to my nation!!!!! It's about time we have politicians actually do something for their constituents
291 BMI727 : That certainly wasn't how it was sold in 2003, but the fact remains that a largely conservative president engaged in a idealist, liberal intervention
292 Post contains images AirStairs : The theoretical reason private companies cannot compete with state entities in the market is that the state entity has the power to create and enforc
293 LipeGIG : Ok this become too long as well as become too off-topic. This thread is now closed. Any post after this will be deleted due to system lag. Regards, Fe
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