Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1802 posts, RR: 24 Posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2391 times:
Well I'm (not) proud to say that my University will be getting a visit from Ann Coulter tonight. Coulter is on a three-day tour of Canadian universities, appearing at the University of Western Ontario yesterday, here at the University of Ottawa tonight and the University of Calgary tomorrow.
I don't oppose her right to speak here on campus per se, but she better watch her mouth for her own sake. UofO has a very large Muslim student body and I know she will be tempted to say something inciteful. One of the University Vice-Presidents Francois Houle warned her in a letter to watch her mouth and be respectful. She is of coure allowed to express her opinions but they should be phrased respectfully and maturely.
What are other Canadians' perspectives on Ms. Coulter's visit? Personally I'll probably go check out the anti-Coulter protest tonight at least to see what they're saying - The University of Ottawa is much more diverse (as far as I understand) than both UWO and UofCalgary.
arrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2646 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2372 times:
Quoting Boeing744 (Thread starter): What are other Canadians' perspectives on Ms. Coulter's visit? Personally I'll probably go check out the anti-Coulter protest tonight at least to see what they're saying - The University of Ottawa is much more diverse (as far as I understand) than both UWO and UofCalgary.
This has been a great story. I can't stand Coulter, or her ravings, but I think she should be able to say whatever she wants. Funny thing is -- that email warning her to watch her mouth was trying to do her a favour, since we have laws against hate speech that, if violated, could land her in jail for a few hours. And lets face it, most of what she has to say is pretty hateful.
Now wouldn't THAT be an international incident!
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7891 posts, RR: 27 Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2339 times:
Coulter has big balls stepping foot in Canada, that's all I can say. Especially after she made an idiot of herself on Canadian TV a few years back with that claim that Canadians sent soldiers to Vietnam - and refused to admit she was wrong when called on it by the interviewer.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1802 posts, RR: 24 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2335 times:
Here is the full text of M. Houle's letter. I find it very reasonable and appropriate. I sent M. Houle an email in support of him because of the way Coulter spun the message:
Dear Ms. Coulter,
I understand that you have been invited by University of Ottawa Campus Conservatives to speak at the University of Ottawa this coming Tuesday. We are, of course, always delighted to welcome speakers on our campus and hope that they will contribute positively to the meaningful exchange of ideas that is the hallmark of a great university campus. We have a great respect for freedom of expression in Canada, as well as on our campus, and view it as a fundamental freedom, as recognized by our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I would, however, like to inform you, or perhaps remind you, that our domestic laws, both provincial and federal, delineate freedom of expression (or “free speech”) in a manner that is somewhat different than the approach taken in the United States. I therefore encourage you to educate yourself, if need be, as to what is acceptable in Canada and to do so before your planned visit here. You will realize that Canadian law puts reasonable limits on the freedom of expression. For example, promoting hatred against any identifiable group would not only be considered inappropriate, but could in fact lead to criminal charges. Outside of the criminal realm, Canadian defamation laws also limit freedom of expression and may differ somewhat from those to which you are accustomed. I therefore ask you, while you are a guest on our campus, to weigh your words with respect and civility in mind. There is a strong tradition in Canada, including at this University, of restraint, respect and consideration in expressing even provocative and controversial opinions and urge you to respect that Canadian tradition while on our campus. Hopefully, you will understand and agree that what may, at first glance, seem like unnecessary restrictions to freedom of expression do, in fact, lead not only to a more civilized discussion, but to a more meaningful, reasoned and intelligent one as well.
I hope you will enjoy your stay in our beautiful country, city and campus.
François Houle Vice-recteur aux études / Vice-President Academic and Provost Université d’Ottawa / University of Ottawa 550, rue Cumberland Street Ottawa (ON) K1N 6N5 téléphone / telephone : 613 562-5737 télécopieur / fax : 613 562-5103
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1802 posts, RR: 24 Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2246 times:
Quoting kaitak (Reply 4): Has she given any indication of the issues she is going to address while in Canada; is she involved in a student debate or just giving a general talk?
From what I understand it's just a talk about freedom of expression and speech - a topic which she obviously exploits to support her ultra-right rantings. Her Canadian equivilant Ezra Levant is also speaking.
johnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2534 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2192 times:
Ann Coulter would like nothing better than to be thrown in jail for a few hours.
She's been out of the news lately and i'm sure her website needs a few more hits to keep her somewhat relevant in the nutso right-wing media.
US330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3810 posts, RR: 14 Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2185 times:
Quoting TheCol (Reply 9): Unless you want to throw gas on the fire, it would probably be best to ignore her altogether. Usually counter protests by university students propagate more hate than constructive criticism
I'd tell anybody at any one of the Canadian Universities that she is visiting that exact same thing. Protesting is great if it has an effect--the problem is that in this case, protesting her visit will do more to benefit her, than those who oppose her. It reinforces the notion that her opinion and insight have some sort of credibility beyond the usual hot-air punditry, and will help her sell books and put her back in the public spotlight.
Canadians, you have every right to protest--but just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean that you should do it--especially if protesting serves to undermine the goal that the protest hopes to accomplish.
I'm all for free speech, and she has every right to say what she wants to say, but I have every right to ignore her and think of her as just one of the many pundits on both side of the sphere who spend too much time complaining and spouting off, and not enough time trying to accomplish the things that they are supposedly in favor of.
As a current uOttawa graduate student who's office is in the very same building she is speaking in, I have made the decision to stay away from my office in the afternoon/evening. I fully support her right to speak but do not support her views one bit. As a current student (first semester graduate student) I can vouch that the campus is a very diverse community in every respect -- something I am quite proud of; the fact that uOttawa is officially bilingual makes it even more diverse. Being an American expat, one of the non-academic reasons I came here is to distance myself from people like Ann Coulter.
I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
CGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2087 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13): Is the simple fact that you disagree with her positions the cause of your contempt?
No. I have had many constructive disagreements with many people. However, she is well known to say some pretty downright incendiary things to traditionally marginalized segments of the population which I won't further divulge here. I do have the capacity to disagree without being disagreeable, most people do: I do not however, think she has this capacity.
I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
I just watched her on the Michael Coren Show and she was okay. Sure, she's far too polarizing and really doesn't help the Conservative cause, but Coren did press her on her Hitler comments. I'd recommend it to any Coren or Coulter fans.
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1802 posts, RR: 24 Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2009 times:
Quoting AF340 (Reply 16): It truly is shameful. Those who call for this silencing are not true Canadians.
No one is calling for her to be silenced. Nowhere was that said. If you read my original post I don't have a problem with her expressing her opinions on campus. M. Houle's letter was simply asking that she refrain from incendiary comments phrased in her usual immature fashion.
Quoting AF340 (Reply 16): she does not incite violence therefore she has the right to say what she wants.
Many would disagree with you. It's not only about inciting violence either; rather, it's about inciting hate which leads to violence. It's not as simple as her saying "go out and hurt Muslims."
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5156 posts, RR: 25 Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2006 times:
Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6): I agree and it's disappointing to find that Canada as well as other countries curb the freedom of expression. It is critical to a free society.
See the funny thing about this is that if Ann Coulter had her way, we wouldn't live in a free society. Do you remember when she suggested that we go into Muslim nations and forcibly convert their populations to Christianity? Somebody who truly believes in a free society would never make such a suggestion. Additionally, when the American Founding Fathers and others came up with the idea of freedom of speech, I highly doubt they were talking about protecting hate-speech.
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 5): a topic which she obviously exploits to support her ultra-right rantings.
Quoting TheCol (Reply 9): We consider hate speech a form of discrimination and subversion. There's really nothing "free" about it.
Quoting Rara (Reply 15): No, it's not. Whether or not laws against hate speech etc. are necessary nowadays, the absence of such legislation is no prerequisite for a free society, as Canada and other countries demonstrate.
Quoting AF340 (Reply 16): Always great to see people sticking up for basic human rights
Calling for the forcible conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a basic human right? Calling a presidential candidate a faggot is a basic human right? Since when did hate-speech and the exploitation of freedom of speech to further your own cause become a basic human right?
AF340 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 2786 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1907 times:
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 17): M. Houle's letter was simply asking that she refrain from incendiary comments phrased in her usual immature fashion.
And threatened legal action if she made such comments. Don't be naive, this was an attempt to silence her. Ontario universities have recently shown their true stripes with Israel Apartheid Week and other similar actions.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 18): Calling for the forcible conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a basic human right?
Find the quote. She never said forcible. Even if she did, that's her right according to the American constitution.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 18): Calling a presidential candidate a faggot is a basic human right?
Yes. (although it may be considered defamation if used under certain contexts)
Quoting OA412 (Reply 18): Since when did hate-speech and the exploitation of freedom of speech to further your own cause become a basic human right?
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1802 posts, RR: 24 Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1886 times:
Quoting AF340 (Reply 20): And threatened legal action if she made such comments. Don't be naive, this was an attempt to silence her. Ontario universities have recently shown their true stripes with Israel Apartheid Week and other similar actions.
You're misrepresenting M. Houle's letter. He was not threatening legal action against her, he was alerting her of Canada's laws regarding hate speech.
Also, Israel Apartheid week was not endorsed in any way by my University, and I would be surprised if others in Ontario did.
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5156 posts, RR: 25 Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1861 times:
Quoting AF340 (Reply 20): Find the quote. She never said forcible. Even if she did, that's her right according to the American constitution.
Gee thanks for the civics lesson. . Here's the exact quote: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Are you honestly going to tell me that such a hypothetical conversion to Christianity would not be by force?
I'll reiterate what I've already said, the problem I have with people like Ann Coulter is that they abuse the right to freedom of speech. There are people in this world with no basic civil liberties, and here you have people like her who are given these liberties and then choose to use them to incite, to inflame, to defame, and to provoke. Certainly that is the beauty of a free society (which I believe Canada and any other country with restrictions on hate-speech continue to be), but it would nice if she and others like her chose to reflect upon this fact once in a while.
Quoting AF340 (Reply 20): Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):Since when did hate-speech and the exploitation of freedom of speech to further your own cause become a basic human right?
Again, thanks for the civics lesson, but my question was rhetorical, and I'm sure you're well aware of that. Again, as a society, we give her, and others like her, the right to spout off and say whatever they choose to say. If she and her ilk had their way, they would take basic freedoms away from many of us in this world. Hopefully, she appreciates this little fact.
A346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1245 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1796 times:
I'm not sure who's dumber, Ann Coulter or the people who protest Ann Coulter. I don't agree with almost everything she says, but she has every right to say it - that is the price of freedom. I'm more than willing to pay it.
Stop paying attention to this woman and she will simply disappear.
[Edited 2010-03-23 22:26:24]
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
MattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1707 times:
Quoting A346Dude (Reply 23): she has every right to say it - that is the price of freedom.
No, she doesn't. Just as one cannot run into a crowded theatre, screaming 'FIRE!' at the top of their lungs, Ms. Coulter does not have the right to espouse hate speech without consequence.
"Coulter was in the middle of a three-city tour of Canada which began at the University of Western Ontario in London on Monday and ends in Calgary on Thursday.
The event in London went without incident, but not without controversy. When answering questions from students, Coulter told a 17-year-old Muslim student to 'take a camel' instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation."
And we're supposed to tolerate stuff like this in the name of 'free speech'? Would you tolerate it if she had told a black student to get to the back of the bus?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
25 NIKV69: Yes, part of the reason I don't care for her, it's one thing to have a different opinion but her approach sucks. We get enough name calling from the
26 ac888yow: Pretty offensive, but hateful? No, that's just your emotions talking. If Ann Coulter commits hate crime while spewing her garbage then she should be
27 YOWza: Does anyone actually care that this moron is still alive? She's a troll. Stop feeding her attention. FIN
28 474218: So I take it mob rule is acceptable in Canada?
29 NIKV69: That wasn't my quote but I will respond, I am not againt the approach of her and people like Mark Levin because it's hateful. I am against it because
30 ac888yow: I don't think she cancelled it. I heard that security officials cancelled the event as there was heightening risk of violence from the protesters tha
31 474218: This statement is just as asinine as when Obama said, 'I don't know anything about it but I am sure the policeman acted stuiply'! Just goes to show w
32 arrow: About the same as in the US. Weren't there some Tea Party disruptions last summer at those health care public forums? Wasn't one of them canceled. or
33 NIKV69: That is all welll and good but I am a republican.
34 474218: When was the last time a "left wing speaker" was prevented from speaking at a university? The only "health care fourms" canceled were canceled by the
35 starac17: From what a Toronto radio host said about her is that one chapter of each of her books has one degree of truth such as "The single mother" chapter of
36 Aaron747: Well no...whether it's Olbermann, Matthews, Hannity or Coulter, some of us just can't stand people who are plainly idiots. Again, why would anyone co
37 AF340: They literally did just that to stop her from speaking. But no, she's the one that needs to be charged... Listen, I am no fan of Ann Coulter, I think
38 AirStairs: For a long time I was seriously bothered with Ann Coulter. I still am. But after reading some of what she has written and watching some of her appear
39 A346Dude: You do realize what a contradiction that is, right? How do you reliably separate controversial speech from hate speech? What is the precise definitio
40 Boeing744: You don't know that the University didn't warn them. I would actually think they likely did. The Ann Coulter letter was leaked by Coulter herself - i
41 AGM100: True , but the left simply "promotes" the "mobs" to show up and shout ... its cool to do... and gets you cred at the coffee shop and book store. Thes
42 Iairallie: Agreed. Frankly I would rather everyone say what they believe no matter how hateful at least if they are open I know what to expect from them. I woul
43 starac17: Same with a lot of other legal things, if anything isn't black and white its the justice system. Hate speech is typically defined as "Bigoted speech
44 arrow: My grand children, actually. They make me proud.
45 AGM100: The same groups who will scream at a pro life speaker would sit quitely while a burka clad women speaks of fairness and puts down the US as a oppresi
46 A332: You know, the whole display from the Canadian left has been completely disgraceful. Talk about a double standard when it comes to free speech. I don't
47 arrow: You're over-reacting. Just about every editorial comment I've seen in the last couple of days has defended her right to say whatever she wants -- the
48 474218: Oblivion, she has written 7 best selling books, has a newspaper column and is paid $$$ for speeches? It always amazes me that people are so afraid of
49 arrow: She's not an item up here (or at least she wasn't) -- that's all I meant. I know she's got a huge following in the US, and I've listened to her many
50 starac17: She does what she does to make her $$$ and thats it. She shouldn't and isn't taken seriously in public debate because I don't think any politician re