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War On Terror - Mexico's Drug Cartels  
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7367 posts, RR: 85
Posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2909 times:
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Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's visit to Mexico this week to chat about the war on drugs is the first major diplomatic visit since an American foreign-service worker and two consular officials' husbands were murdered on March 13

What are you thoughts on a surge to assist the growing problem? I don't think building a fence or sending additional federal agents to the border is going to help long term.



Newsweek article

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2885 times:

Legalize the drugs, tax the crap out of them. Solves two problems right there.

Until then the mess shall continue.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):
Legalize the drugs, tax the crap out of them. Solves two problems right there.

Until then the mess shall continue.

Yep, pretty basic. Legalize it all. Cartels fall and we make money. People are going to get it not matter how much we fight it so we also save all the money spent trying to catch and prosecute.


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Cartels fall

You think drug cartels are just going to go away if you legalize/tax drugs?

They won't go quietly. They'll undercut the government. They'll make the government bleed cash at the very least. People will still buy drugs from illicit cartels.

And if for some reason their drug money dries up, they'll get into something else. Rest assured.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7811 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3):
You think drug cartels are just going to go away if you legalize/tax drugs?

There is a fair level of naivete behind the belief that legalizing it all would solve all of the problems associated with the war on drugs. I think having Marijuana as a schedule 5 narcotic is absolutely assanine. At that level it is next to impossible to do legitimate research. If pot was made legal I'd imagine it would have a noticable impact on the drug cartels as legit suppliers and distributors take over the production and sale of marijuana. I still have a hard time legalizing a lot of the harder stuff, drugs that I don't see having recreational uses (medicinal yes).

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3):
And if for some reason their drug money dries up, they'll get into something else. Rest assured.

The Mafia got big during prohibition in the production and transport of alcohol and did not disappear once prohibition was repealed. I don't doubt the situation would be any different with the various drug cartels, they may move into the background, some may struggle for their existence, but they won't disappear completely. I do wonder what impact there would be if pot, for example, was legalized... what would happen to the various street gangs in the US -- which are also heavily involved in the drug trade.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 4):
but they won't disappear completely.

Still, the end of the prohibition meant a drastic decrease in violence and gang power, did it not?


I also find it extremely interesting that kingpins, drug lords and their minions are getting shot by the Mexican government but yet in the US all you ever hear about the "war on drugs" is that a random drug dealer working the street at gets sent to jail for a night or two and then gets out on bail  


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20362 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3):
You think drug cartels are just going to go away if you legalize/tax drugs?

I don't think, I *KNOW* with 100% certainty what happened to the bootleggers within 10 days of the repeal of Prohibition. They were gone. Out of business.

And there is no reason to suppose this will be any different.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 4):
The Mafia got big during prohibition in the production and transport of alcohol and did not disappear once prohibition was repealed.

Really? Haven't heard much about the mafia lately. In fact, they haven't been active for a few decades.

But do you know what they did after the repeal of Prohibition? Drugs. Yup. They trafficked and sold drugs.


User currently offlineUS330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3877 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

You have to legalize, plain and simple. During prohibition, the money was being made by all the gangsters. When prohibition ended, they had to find another source.

Saves us the money for troop expenses, and actually creates an additional source of funding from taxing the stuff.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3):
They won't go quietly. They'll undercut the government. They'll make the government bleed cash at the very least. People will still buy drugs from illicit cartels.

That's the exact opposite of how cartels work. Cartels work because there is a limited/controlled supply. Once every Tom, Dick, and Harry has the ability to grow their own weed, the supply of weed will increase, and the price will drop. The U.S. Government isn't going to go into the weed business, but private companies will. Establish all sorts of regulations, and not only will you be able to buy weed cheaper than it is now, but it will also be safer--you will know what you are buying.
Once prohibition ended, do you think that boozers still went to the mafia to get their booze? No--they just went down to the liquor store.

They might still be able to squeeze a profit from other drugs, like cocaine and heroin, but their main source of revenue and profits is marijuana.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3):
You think drug cartels are just going to go away if you legalize/tax drugs?

Yes they will, they will still have to be killed or prosecuted but it will be much easier once the substance they are selling is not longer exclusive. Mexico still needs to step up.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
I don't think, I *KNOW* with 100% certainty what happened to the bootleggers within 10 days of the repeal of Prohibition. They were gone. Out of business.

And there is no reason to suppose this will be any different.

  


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Quoting US330 (Reply 7):
They might still be able to squeeze a profit from other drugs, like cocaine and heroin, but their main source of revenue and profits is marijuana

That's why I believe they should make all drugs legal, but heavily regulated and taxed. Only legalizing cannabis won't do much because once a person builds tolerance to a drug they tend to move on to stronger stuff, and if that stronger stuff is still illegal, well, then you didn't really solve the situation much.

Whether there will be a drastic increase in pot heads and crack whores is hard to say. I'd like to believe those addicts which are beyond any hope of making recovery and are a danger to society will remain in roughly the same amount, but the amount of "responsible", "occasional" consumers will probably rise a bit. I don't see a problem with the latter however. But if they want to slowly kill themselves with these substances (just like chain smokers and alcoholics do) then so be it.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
Mexico still needs to step up.

How so? The reason there is an increase in violence is because it's the first time in history the Mexican government declared war on drugs and for the first time ever they are truly, seriously, unleashing hell on the cartels. And obviously the cartels aren't just gonna sit there and allow themselves to be shot. It's an unfortunate consequence. IMO Mexico lately has done more on the war against drugs than anywhere else this side of the world. I also wish the US was more proactive about it instead of just dropping a bag of money wherever there's a problem.


[Edited 2010-03-24 13:31:11]

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 9):
I also wish the US was more proactive about it instead of just dropping a bag of money wherever there's a problem.

What do you suggest? Drop troops in there? That drug war is going to explode soon and your right Mexico has done a lot but the worse is still to come.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7811 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 9):
Whether there will be a drastic increase in pot heads and crack whores is hard to say. I'd like to believe those addicts which are beyond any hope of making recovery and are a danger to society will remain in roughly the same amount, but the amount of "responsible", "occasional" consumers will probably rise a bit. I don't see a problem with the latter however. But if they want to slowly kill themselves with these substances (just like chain smokers and alcoholics do) then so be it.

What concerns me about the potential legalization of marijuana is that the social norms for acceptable use of it aren't really established. I think for the most part any current and potential recreation users know when and where it is appropriate to smoke. But as much of a problem as we have with drinking in this country (drunk driving, binge drinking, alcoholism) doesn't indicate to me that we have the best sense as to when, where, and how much to consume. Plus the fact that there really has not been extensive, quality research done on the effects of marijuana.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
What do you suggest? Drop troops in there? That drug war is going to explode soon and your right Mexico has done a lot but the worse is still to come.

I am being a little abstract here but.... we could seriously look at changing our narcotics laws, legalizing stuff, or heck consuming less of it. Think of it from the perspective of the Mexicans or the Colombians or any other nation that has been in the thick of the war on drugs. They're fighting, their people are dying, they're spending all this money to fight to drug cartels.... and then Americans are still buying the shit. I'd be a little pissed about that over the long haul.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1564 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 9):

How so? The reason there is an increase in violence is because it's the first time in history the Mexican government declared war on drugs and for the first time ever they are truly, seriously, unleashing hell on the cartels. And obviously the cartels aren't just gonna sit there and allow themselves to be shot. It's an unfortunate consequence. IMO Mexico lately has done more on the war against drugs than anywhere else this side of the world. I also wish the US was more proactive about it instead of just dropping a bag of money wherever there's a problem.

What is more proactive? Send in my Marine Corps? I'm sure they would be happy to oblige, but what else can the US realistically do besides provide funding and training?

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 11):

I am being a little abstract here but.... we could seriously look at changing our narcotics laws, legalizing stuff, or heck consuming less of it. Think of it from the perspective of the Mexicans or the Colombians or any other nation that has been in the thick of the war on drugs. They're fighting, their people are dying, they're spending all this money to fight to drug cartels.... and then Americans are still buying the shit. I'd be a little pissed about that over the long haul.

Actually the US is spending the money. We have spent billions in equipment and training on Colombia and it has for the most part worked.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
What do you suggest? Drop troops in there?
Quoting ual777 (Reply 12):
I'm sure they would be happy to oblige, but what else can the US realistically do besides provide funding and training?

Oh no no no, hell no. While the conservatives in power probably wouldn't mind too much, the idiotic extreme leftists in Mexico would surely consider it an "invasion" and start yet more drama, as if Mexico doesn't have enough drama already.

What I was getting at is those drug programs such as D.A.R.E. (which my mom helped bring to Mexico by the way) just aren't cutting it in my eyes. Aside from those pot farm raids in California, when was the last time there was a single huge operation to nail established drug traffickers already in the US? I mean I know they happen, but it's just no way in the same scale as in Mexico. Of course bringing it to that scale creates obvious safety problems.

The other huge problem I see is major corruption, on both sides of the border. CBP and the DEA have to be one of the most corrupt dependencies in the US. Why is it that full truckloads of the stuff make it through the border unscathed considering the billions that have been spent in making the borders more secure? Magic? I think not.

Lastly, weapons. Nearly all the weapons used by the cartels come from the US. Almost daily you hear in the Mexican news about some person caught crossing the border, or near the border, with insane amounts of ammo. Guns are illegal in Mexico (with very limited exceptions) to begin with. So where do they turn to get them? The US.

Quoting ual777 (Reply 12):
We have spent billions in equipment and training on Colombia and it has for the most part worked.

I don't see how. Most of the drugs coming through Mexico originated from Colombia. Mexico doesn't produce squat compared to some places in South America. Mexico is just the last fence they have to jump to get the crap into the US.

[Edited 2010-03-24 15:54:27]

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4227 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 13):
Oh no no no, hell no. While the conservatives in power probably wouldn't mind too much, the idiotic extreme leftists in Mexico would surely consider it an "invasion" and start yet more drama, as if Mexico doesn't have enough drama already.

Sending them in without an explicit invitation from the Mexican Government IS an Invasion.

Just because you dont like something in another country doesnt mean you have the right to go violating its sovereignty. I know the Bush administration did a very good line in doing just that, but I thought we had all realised that is, like, eh..... illegal and shit?  

For sure, help and assist, but sending in your troops uninvited to another territory is an invasion and is thus violates international law. This war on terror thing has its limits - so drop that line while the going is good. It cant be used to justify just anything.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 14):
Sending them in without an explicit invitation from the Mexican Government IS an Invasion.

Obviously.   

But that "invitation" idea had been toyed around a couple of times in the Mexican government and even then there was strong opposition to it.

And I know the service guys would not mind it one bit. What's going on in Mexico is kids play compared to the mess in the middle east. Not to mention the food, girls, and beaches are better than in the middle east Big grin

[Edited 2010-03-24 17:36:36]

User currently offlinestarac17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3410 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
I don't think, I *KNOW* with 100% certainty what happened to the bootleggers within 10 days of the repeal of Prohibition. They were gone. Out of business.

And there is no reason to suppose this will be any different.

   drug cartels are only violent to protect their illegal assets.

Also if you want to cut government spending then legalize drugs (maybe start with pot and see what happens) and end the war on drugs. The DEA basically gets a blank check from the federal government to fight an unwinnable war, mainly because people want to get high and will find a way.

Also this raises taxes for people who will but legalized pot to make the government more money and just might end up cutting everyone else's taxes in the long run.

Also as a Canadian we need the US to do it first because we really want to  . If we did we would be seen like Mexico and it would hinder the existing trade relationship from our side.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4227 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 15):
But that "invitation" idea had been toyed around a couple of times in the Mexican government and even then there was strong opposition to it.

And I know the service guys would not mind it one bit. What's going on in Mexico is kids play compared to the mess in the middle east. Not to mention the food, girls, and beaches are better than in the middle east

I cant say I blame the Mexicans for being against it. It's an admission that you consider yourself unable to deal with your problems.

But I completely fail to see how this falls under the category of the so called "war on terror". Thats the danger of that stupid slogan - now people feel at liberty to apply it to almost any situation where bad things are going on. Does it now confer on the US the ability to walk into any country it likes, providing there is some sort of ill shit going on?

I know you were not the one who used that heading, so that isnt directed at you or indeed anyone in particular, but using the old "war on terror" slogan is setting a dangerous precedent.

As for the food, girls, beer and beaches in Mexico.. well yes, Im sure US forces would enjoy the break from Afghanistan and Iraq!  



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2671 times:

Quoting starac17 (Reply 16):
Also this raises taxes for people who will but legalized pot to make the government more money and just might end up cutting everyone else's taxes in the long run.

There will be minimal money made from taxes on pot because most people will grow their own, like the ones that do now,and the ones that will become growers to avoid the taxes. So no benefit to the taxpayer.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
don't think, I *KNOW* with 100% certainty what happened to the bootleggers within 10 days of the repeal of Prohibition. They were gone. Out of business

Bootlegging is still practiced today in the U.S. and around the world,granted not to the extent as during prohibition,but still costing licensed liquor dealers billions each year


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 17):

I know you were not the one who used that heading, so that isnt directed at you or indeed anyone in particular, but using the old "war on terror" slogan is setting a dangerous precedent

Yeah if anything it should read war on drugs.

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 18):

There will be minimal money made from taxes on pot because most people will grow their own, like the ones that do now,and the ones that will become growers to avoid the taxes. So no benefit to the taxpayer

And how come home brewers haven't destroyed the alcoholic beverage industry?   


User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 19):
And how come home brewers haven't destroyed the alcoholic beverage industry?

Because home brewing is a federal crime with penalties up to 5 years imprisonment and/or $10,000 fines just for setting up an unregistered still.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2644 times:

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 20):

Because home brewing is a federal crime with penalties up to 5 years imprisonment and/or $10,000 fines just for setting up an unregistered still

Depends on the state of course...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrewing#North_America


User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 21):
Depends on the state of course...

Federal law supercedes any state law.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 22):
Federal law supercedes any state law.

Ah yes, touche. Silly me.

What you mentioned was federal I assume?


User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Although it's still fighting, the war on drugs has been far and away the US's least successful war of the last two centuries, surely. At least its "allies" have been rpogressively moving away from the stricyly prohibitionist stance of the US, although this could be happening more quickly.....

Decriminalise and look to legalise - but tax the hell out of it, just like with alcohol!


25 JBirdAV8r : Flawed argument. Drug cartels are not considered "cartels" in the economic sense. We are not talking about OPEC controlling oil prices. Drug cartels
26 Post contains images fxramper : There has been a huge push the last 18 months that has sent federal agents 'on loan' to the border and interior Mexico. DEA, ICE, US Marshals, Secret
27 shamrock604 : The gentleman has a point. Even though I am pro-legalisation, we can look to events around the world that prove this theory is to a point, correct. H
28 dc9northwest : If drugs were legal, we wouldn't have this problem. End of story.
29 futurepilot16 : The Mafia is still around though right? I think legalizing drugs will do a lot for certain drugs but will not do much for others. I think drugs such
30 stasisLAX : The government of Mexico is corrupt to the core, especially on the local level. Every mayor of a Mexican border city has a security detail protecting
31 shamrock604 : By that logic, is the US a failed state because its government is in the pocket of the Oil Industry?
32 Ltbewr : People turn to crime when government fails to provide them with economic security. The drug cartels offer the only real hope of income for millions of
33 Aaron747 : There is no medical basis for this assertion. Have you ever seen anyone going through alcohol withdrawal? Too much of anything will kill you - from h
34 futurepilot16 : Which is exactly why I don't recommend it to be legalized. People who get addicted have weak minds, unfortunately, a lot of those weak minds are coll
35 Aaron747 : To some extent but mental/emotional state and financial circumstance are other driving factors. There's a reason cocaine is popular in certain circle
36 Baroque : Just wish this thread was representative of pollies. It would be over bar setting the tax rates. Poor bloody Mexico. However, it is conspicuous with p
37 Post contains images fxramper : Back on topic please... I realllllly don't want to see Mexico turn into our president(s) next pet project a la Iraq. I think Dubya Sr. screwed the poo
38 Aaron747 : Kind of hard to prove that when history shows otherwise.
39 Post contains images fxramper : Welcome to the discussion... When in the history of time did legalizing drug(s) completely eliminate organized crime?
40 Fly2HMO : Not gonna happen. I would've moved out of Mexico a long time ago if that was the case. Those cheap tabloids and ignorant analysts claiming Mexico is
41 Acheron : Not really. Colombia is still by far the largest producer of cocaine in the world and its production levels have barely changed in the last few years
42 Post contains links fxramper : As mentioned before, the mafia and the crime they commit didn't go away. Arturo, I understand your allegiance, and I wouldn't compare Mexico to Somal
43 AM744 : That is exactly right. Lack of accountability at every level. All comes down to corruption and the useless legal system that allows or even reinforce
44 Boeing1970 : If drugs were legal, they'd resort to kidnapping, ransom and murder. This is already happening in some areas where they've been unable to effectively
45 Post contains images PPVRA : [Edited 2010-03-25 11:34:38]
46 Post contains links and images Boeing1970 : Too easy.[Edited 2010-03-25 11:39:13]
47 cx340 : This prretty much sums it up IMHO. Comparing Mexico to Somalia is ridiculous, at best. Just as the close to 1,000,000 US citizens living in Mexico if
48 AR385 : I live in Monterrey. I do not know if living here is equal to a war zone, because I have never been in one, but lately things in this city have become
49 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Time to come out to HMO. It's always been nice and quiet out here. Well, who knows how long that lasts. Our brand new governor is a major tool bag an
50 Aaron747 : I wasn't speaking in a symbolic sense - of course military action can not destroy the nuts and bolts of the drug industry. But the folks at the top o
51 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Eh, not always. The real big guys aren't hiding in the city with everybody else and are constantly relocating. They're either in the mountains or som
52 dc9northwest : Quite right... Once they banned pseudoephedrine in OTC medicine production slowly shifted south to Mexico. Now, I understand that the US doesn't want
53 PPVRA : What's with the roaring 20s? Doesn't fit the argument. That whole period between WWI and 1929 is not a recession or worse.[Edited 2010-03-26 12:53:38
54 PPVRA : Oh and there is a rise in crime leading up to the 70s. This doesn't make sense considering the artificial causes of the oil embargo. Let's also not fo
55 Post contains links and images fxramper : Every day it seems, I'm reading a story like this on CNN, Yahoo, MSNBC, or Statesman. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100329/...n_re_us/us_drug_war_borde
56 AR385 : That used to be true up until about 6 or 8 years ago. Now, Mexico is a major drug consumer. I know, because I volunteer in a drug/alcohol rehab cente
57 Post contains images Fly2HMO : That article specifically goes to show how if you have the slightest sort of interaction or involvement with these thugs, sooner or later you're gonn
58 Post contains links fxramper : This guy was minding his own business...unclear if drug related or just border jumpers, but sad nonetheless. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...s
59 Post contains links DXing : It meant a drastic decrease in public violence practiced by the Mafia. However drive by's in LA still occur with regularity and I doubt it is ever ov
60 Post contains images AGM100 : I am sad for the Mexican people ... they deserve better. I cross the border often at a remote transit point for all kinds of trafficers ...both human
61 Fly2HMO : Gangs will never go away. That's a given. But if you can remove at least one more thing for them to make easy money with then it must help. Last time
62 Post contains images TheCol : That's my concern. There needs to be some very serious research and dialogue into this. There's too much BS floating around with these so called "imp
63 AGM100 : Hats , backpacks , and water bottles are usualy a good indication. These individuals were not waiting at the border crossing but milling around in th
64 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Ohhhh NVM. I thought you were talking about people lining up in their cars at the border... silly me
65 dc9northwest : 16% of cases. About as much as caffeine. Alcohol, OTOH, has an addiction rate of 25% or so. Crack is whack, it is probably the most addictive drug; t
66 TheCol : It wouldn't surprise me if that's widely disputed. Though the "purity" factor probably comes into play as well. That's what I've heard too.
67 Post contains links AvObserver : [ With respect, we need BOTH in addition to other solutions as part of a comprehensive plan to not just stop the cartels from violent traffiking in th
68 PPVRA : If it was drug related, he is yet another victim in the war on drugs. One more death in your quest to save people from, ironically, death.
69 Baroque : Funny (as in STRANGE) that the really effective strategy to prevent deaths, controlled injecting rooms is so unpopular.
70 AGM100 : All the talk now is about sending the National Gaurd to the border.... here is the problem . What do they do when they get their ? Nothing much .... g
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