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Saudi Arabia To Execute Man For Witchcraft  
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

Here's the latest enlightened action from the Kingdom

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/10033.../lebanon_saudi_witchcraft_sentence

What I'm really curious about is the reaction of those who are usually so ready with, "Lawbreakers get what they deserve".

Make sure you don't accidentally practice witchcraft or sorcery.

Of course, maybe it's just a misunderstanding. Perhaps Saudis are just trying to get ahead...


What the...?
171 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19419 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

Folks, I have said it before and I have said again:

DO NOT TRAVEL TO COUNTRIES WITH QUESTIONABLE HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS.

Most people travel through places like Dubai or S.A. without a problem. But you never know when it will be you who winds up locked in jail for no reason.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Good lord! The article is a little vague on what the alleged witchcraft actually was other than to say he made predictions on Lebanese TV. Regardless, the fact that anyone would be beheaded in this day and age for practicing witchcraft is ridiculous. I realize that this is the law in Saudi Arabia, and it is one of many reasons why people should avoid visiting the place like the plague, but beheading for practicing witchcraft? I'm sorry, but no rational person can defend this.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

This is a very simple matter: their country, their rules. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but unless you want to fight another war and do another expensive round of nation building while paying $6.00 a gallon for gas there isn't much that can be done about it.

I'm sure that I'll be called a bad guy (and possibly justifiably) for saying this, but it is the truth. A guy getting whacked in Saudi Arabia for practicing witchcraft is less important to me than cheap gas. For what it is worth, the international community is talking on this guy's behalf, but since none of them appear to be playing hardball, it seems that they agree with me.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
DO NOT TRAVEL TO COUNTRIES WITH QUESTIONABLE HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS.

Any attempt to enforce a universal morality will result in tyranny, but your point remains that if you don't like the laws don't go. I'm sure that somewhere in the Middle East somebody does not agree that women should be able to show their legs in public, which is fine as long as they don't come here and start screaming about it (or setting off bombs) I don't care.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):

Less than 25% of oil used in the US comes from the middle east, and not all of that is from Saudi. Just think of the savings if the US got the hell out of the middle east altogether. The tax savings would more than make up for a 25% increase in the price of gasoline.



What the...?
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5931 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
Make sure you don't accidentally practice witchcraft or sorcery.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):
The article is a little vague on what the alleged witchcraft actually was other than to say he made predictions on Lebanese TV. Regardless, the fact that anyone would be beheaded in this day and age for practicing witchcraft is ridiculous. I realize that this is the law in Saudi Arabia, and it is one of many reasons why people should avoid visiting the place like the plague, but beheading for practicing witchcraft? I'm sorry, but no rational person can defend this.

I know it is not at all funny, but if the Saudis really believed in sorcery, should they not be concerned he would take his revenge on them locked up and all.

SO, assuming they don't really believe in the charge, why in hell are they wanting to behead him? My guess it is something else, and we will never get to know what it really is.

Message: Have a care going on the Haj if the Saudis don't get you the CIA likely will.   


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 4):
Less than 25% of oil used in the US comes from the middle east, and not all of that is from Saudi. Just think of the savings if the US got the hell out of the middle east altogether. The tax savings would more than make up for a 25% increase in the price of gasoline.

I'm not looking at hard numbers, just making general statements regarding the situation. The point is that there is little anyone can do about it and that like it or not, this guy's life is not worth a major international incident.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
I know it is not at all funny, but if the Saudis really believed in sorcery, should they not be concerned he would take his revenge on them locked up and all.

LOL, you do have a point there.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
My guess it is something else, and we will never get to know what it really is.

That's more than likely the correct answer.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineUS330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3868 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
I know it is not at all funny, but if the Saudis really believed in sorcery, should they not be concerned he would take his revenge on them locked up and all.

It's not funny, but it is an interesting point.What were to happen if the guy was accused of using ESP or telekinesis? How would the Saudis prevent the suspect from conducting such activities behind bars?


User currently offlinecasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4510 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5839 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 7):
That's more than likely the correct answer

Doubtful. This man entered Saudi Arabia for the Haj, which is a Muslim Religious practice. A very holy pilgrimage required of all able bodies Muslims once in their lifetime. This person was born a muslim and "admitted to" practicing sorcery. This is apostasy. By Saudi Law it is punishable by death.
Perhaps the high courts will step in, but I doubt it. Saudi's do not believe in freedom of religion. There is no open practicing of other faiths in public.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
This is a very simple matter: their country, their rules. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but unless you want to fight another war and do another expensive round of nation building while paying $6.00 a gallon for gas there isn't much that can be done about it.

Yep and this is why you won't see the US making a big deal about it. We want their oil regardless of how backwards and anti human rights their society seems to be for current western society. This episode reminds me of the Salem Witch Trials of the 1600's

Really sad conduct considering the ramifications it has on the stability of the region and other countries in the vicinity.

[Edited 2010-03-31 21:12:33]

[Edited 2010-03-31 21:27:32]


Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Quoting casInterest (Reply 9):
We want their oil regardless of how backwards and anti human rights their society seems to be for current western society.

What can the US or any other country do about it? Keeping in mind the other ramifications of any action is it really worth it for one guy? No it isn't.

Sucks for him but there won't be any major action from the international community because one guy is not worth upsetting the apple cart over.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4510 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5806 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
because one guy is not worth upsetting the apple cart over.

Sad thing is ,when it comes to Human rights in Saudi Arabia, millions of folks are getting the shaft. But then again they choose to live and travel there.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

Quoting casInterest (Reply 11):
Sad thing is ,when it comes to Human rights in Saudi Arabia, millions of folks are getting the shaft.

Sad, but true. Even worse is the fact that the West has turned a blind eye due to Saudi Arabia's oil reserves.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
Sad, but true. Even worse is the fact that the West has turned a blind eye due to Saudi Arabia's oil reserves.

Human rights are only something to trot out when some politician needs to pretend that they care. Remember post Rwanda genocide...? "NEVER AGAIN...!" was the vow from the UN and every righteous nation on the globe. Darfur, Zimbabwe, New Orleans and Myanmar prove that any concern for human rights is lip service, nothing more.

The US, for example, refuses to deal with Castro because he runs a Commie government in Cuba yet they deal with China because they say that dealing with China is the only way to lead them out of totalitarianism. Sound hypocritical? That's only because Cuba can't fill walmart with cheap consumer goods.

Iran is terrible because of their draconian government but Saudi is ok because of their much more draconian government.

Human rights will forever be nothing more than a pawn in the game of international trade. The human condition only matters as long as it isn't inconvenient.



What the...?
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1175 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5778 times:

This is b.s. As far I am concerned he did not break any laws IN Saudi Arabia. He made forecasts IN LEBANON not in SAUDI ARABIA. This way any polititians or scientists that participate in talk shows or on the news can be beheaded in Saudi. And the "dont travel to these places" bit doesn't work here. Every muslim who is able to must complete the Hajj...to Mecca, Saudi Arabia. I hope King Abdullah gets involved and stops this from happening.


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
Human rights are only something to trot out when some politician needs to pretend that they care. Remember post Rwanda genocide...? "NEVER AGAIN...!" was the vow from the UN and every righteous nation on the globe. Darfur, Zimbabwe, New Orleans and Myanmar prove that any concern for human rights is lip service, nothing more.

  

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
The US, for example, refuses to deal with Castro because he runs a Commie government in Cuba yet they deal with China because they say that dealing with China is the only way to lead them out of totalitarianism. Sound hypocritical? That's only because Cuba can't fill walmart with cheap consumer goods.

Exactly. Abhorrent human rights abuses and sweatshops are awful until we can buy 2 t-shirts for $10 at Walmart, then it's all A-OK.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
Iran is terrible because of their draconian government but Saudi is ok because of their much more draconian government.

As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
Human rights will forever be nothing more than a pawn in the game of international trade. The human condition only matters as long as it isn't inconvenient.

  



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5740 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia.

That is a bit funny considering who the biggest fan of regime change in Saudi Arabia is.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3427 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5740 times:
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Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia

Why? Did any Saudi complains about the regime? People here know the laws and accept it, it could be wrong or right, but it is there. And who made Bush in charge of changing regimes in the world? And what kind of regime he will replace it with? If anything like Iraq then thanks but no thanks.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

I think the US should get out of the regime change business altogether. Let the middle east take care of itself. They'll save trillions of dollars and if they aren't overseas extending their influence, they'll easily save the oil they currently get from the gulf.

Forget Iran, Iraq, Saudi...the whole lot. Let them sort it out for themselves. Eventually, Iran and Iraq will form a power base and nobody else will have the military will or power to resist them.

The Persian Shias have always thought that they should have control of Mecca, not the Wahhabis. Saudi would be overrun in weeks. Actually, they'd just cut their own capitulation deal but that's much the same thing.

The only thing the countries of the middle east have in common is their hatred of Israel. On the other hand, they've only had that enemy for 60 years. They've had blood feuds with each other for centuries.

Pull out and wait a few years. When the dust settles, quit pretending anyone really cares about the losers, make a deal with the winner and count the cash you'll save.

There is no winning in the Middle east for the US. The sooner they realise that, the better off we'll all be.



What the...?
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 18):
Let the middle east take care of itself. They'll save trillions of dollars and if they aren't overseas extending their influence, they'll easily save the oil they currently get from the gulf.

..as long as we can ensure that we have an adequate supply of oil, though not necessarily from that region. I'll admit, I fall somewhere on the realist side of the spectrum, but America does have to look out for number one.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 18):
The only thing the countries of the middle east have in common is their hatred of Israel. On the other hand, they've only had that enemy for 60 years. They've had blood feuds with each other for centuries.

  



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

Quoting US330 (Reply 8):
.What were to happen if the guy was accused of using ESP or telekinesis? How would the Saudis prevent the suspect from conducting such activities behind bars?

A few possible answers.
1. They don't really think he does anything (most likely)
2. They think THEIR telekinesis and ESP are more powerful than his - odd but possible.
3. He may indeed work his wonders and bring the metaphorical temple crashing down on their collective heads. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
As many of us have said repeatedly, if the Bush Administration really wanted to bring about regime change in the Middle East, they should have started with Saudi Arabia.

That is a bit funny considering who the biggest fan of regime change in Saudi Arabia is.

Yes, that is rather ironical. But not funny ha ha, more funny peculiar.


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3427 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5668 times:
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Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 18):
Eventually, Iran and Iraq will form a power base and nobody else will have the military will or power to resist them.

Wishful thinking but why did you take Sunni Turkey out of this? Iran will not be welcomed in our area, as for Iraq well few years will not be enough after what it went through. So if i was on your shoes i will not held my breath.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

They should give the man a fair chance, like it was done in the medieval times in Europe. Throw him into a river, if he floats, he's guilty, if he drowns, he's innocent.


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4507 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Call me a cynic, but I think the fact that this guy's name is Ali Hussein probably has something to do with why they decided to err on the side of beheading the poor man for a "crime" (undefined) which he committed outside of KSA.

If his name was Abdulaziz Al-Alshaikh I doubt they would be doing this, or if he was an American.

Yes...feel free to point out that they beheaded an Egyptian for a similar charge in 2007. I stand by my statement. I appeal to the better judgment of the relevant authorities to drop the charges.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 21):
Iran will not be welcomed in our area,

Who says they'd wait to be invited? If Iran wanted in, there's not much the Saudis could do about it except get the US to help them fend off the Persians.



What the...?
25 HKA : witchcraft though forbbiden in Islam, does not carry death penalty. The saudis are over reacting. The guy will most likey get some jail term
26 MoltenRock : One could also go to the next step, and refuse to buy/use any products produced there.... ie, oil/petro goods. But that would take a little bit of ef
27 Post contains images ramzi :
28 wn700driver : So what constitutes socery? Iraq is a lot better than what you have. The money isn't there, and the chaos certainly is. But a job could at least pay m
29 BMI727 : So are you saying that someone should intervene and remove the Sauds?
30 SOBHI51 : You must be kiding. Great then don't. People critisize countries they know nothing about, never visited and never even mingled with the people of tha
31 qantas077 : bit hard to know anything about the KSA when its near on impossible to go there as a tourist...
32 Post contains links MoltenRock : Look I'm no fan of SA, but you're being a bit over the top. Iraq is extremely violent still, and as an American you have more to fear in Iraq than yo
33 SOBHI51 : Yes you can and there is few things to see here. Come with an open mind you will be wellcomed.
34 directorguy : I really am appalled that a non-Saudi national is being executed for 'sorcery' because he gave predictions. Sorcery-or more accurately superstition is
35 Dahlgardo : Yeah right...what if I'm Jew...or homosexual ? Come on...any legal system that can convict a person for doing sorcery (!) should be rediculed in the
36 RJ111 : If SA want that rule they are entitled to it, but i don't believe they should be arresting people for doing things outside of their jurisdiction.
37 SOBHI51 : Yeh i know, remember not only one religion excuted sorceres.
38 Dahlgardo : Exectly! That IS religion in a nutshell. I'm not bashing any particular religion, but any religion. Being able to criticise and question religion is
39 BMI727 : ...but you have to follow the local laws, just like anywhere else.
40 JoeCanuck : But how many have done so in the past century?
41 wn700driver : Nope. Wouldn't go there. Ever. That dictatorship gets too much of our money as it is. As for Iraq, if I were a contractor making a good amount of mon
42 KiwiRob : Does your passport state that your are jewish and a homo? If you don't tell them I don't see what your problem is.
43 Dahlgardo : You're missing the point. Say, if you were a Jew, would you lie about your faith/ethnicticity if asked by someone in Saudi Arabia ? I guess you would
44 ajd1992 : If you're an Israeli citizen then It doesn't have to. The chances are if you're Israeli - you're Jewish. If you don't like the way certain customs wo
45 SOBHI51 : YES. Since the Madrid conference there are no barriers for Jews to come to the Kingdom. Over the years thosands of Americans and westerners came and
46 Airxliban : Guys, take it from someone who has 8 Saudi visas in his passport and has spent a total of 21 months in the desert kingdom over the last 4 years...the
47 stealthz : The majority of that was during and shortly after a period commonly known as the Dark Ages, perhaps it is time for a little Renaissance in "the Kingd
48 Post contains links qantas077 : believe me, I'd have been there by now if it wasn't so difficult. http://www.mofa.gov.sa/Detail.asp?InSectionID=4343&InNewsItemID=45759
49 SOBHI51 : Can not find this on the application. It just asks your religion.
50 Airxliban : It's not on the online application, it comes on the instructions that the kafil gives you
51 Post contains images SOBHI51 : Those instructions might be 20 years old. You know how fast people work here.
52 luckyone : Unfortunately you will find more legal systems with nonsensical and Medieval logic than you will not when you leave the "Western" world. If he has an
53 BMI727 : And as a sovereign state, they would be correct in this.
54 ajd1992 : I didn't know that but I'm not Israeli, Jewish not have I ever been to Israel. I don't use it. I'm not gay and I'm not against it (obviously). I have
55 Post contains links MoltenRock : Meh. "Homo" isn't offensive IMO. "Fag" and its kin is/are still offensive to North Americans by in large, not so much in the UK. Much like "cunt" is
56 dc9northwest : Difference is... In Iraq you might get killed by an insurgent. In Saudi, you might get killed by the government. The first is an accident, more or le
57 SOBHI51 : There no more American forces in the Kingdom. Just want to ask all those people on the attack wagon, how many foreigners were executed in the last 10
58 Post contains links MoltenRock : Sorry but that makes zero sense. So you as you are being murdered the last thought in your head will be, "Hey at least I'm not being killed by the go
59 SOBHI51 : Considering the strict laws in SA the death penalty for drug smugeling, children rape armed robbery and murder that is an acceptable figure. You feel
60 dc9northwest : She was there... I didn't ask how she got it. I'm not even sure what her mission was. It was probably ten years ago or so, even more, maybe. I would,
61 wn700driver : Correct. But the fact that the "state" snactions as a punishment for crimes that are bewilderingly incomprehensible to the modern world presents an u
62 SOBHI51 : If they do not want a religion to enter the KSA then they will not enter, but they did allow so what is wrong with that? So what should we do? Give t
63 SOBHI51 : Like what? Give me examples of weterners being arrested for no reason. Don't just throw silly accusations.
64 dc9northwest : Ok, someone plants 12 g of heroin in my bags in... say Amsterdam... I go to Singapore or KSA, they find it, I'm dead. And it's not for anyone's use r
65 Springbok747 : Don't know about Saudi Arabia, but in Singapore you get death if you're caught with 3g of Morphine or Cocaine. Think about it...3g...its so tiny you
66 Post contains links SOBHI51 : Thank you, i try to be respectful also in my responses. Not true, you can get a prison term. I said it before we are not perfect some of the laws i d
67 dc9northwest : Yeah, from a Saudi viewpoint, every Westerner has at least one bad habit... So stay home, everyone! These range from not being Muslim to having the d
68 SOBHI51 : This is a joke. Excuse my ignorance but is there any country in the world which legalize heroin? As for money we do not need drug money. Lets keep re
69 dc9northwest : Not yet. I believe Portugal and Mexico have both decriminalized it, though. In Portugal it is legal to possess 1 gram of heroin (which mind you, is p
70 SOBHI51 : Just for that you gained my respect. No problem having different views imagine the whole world with the same view? Borring. I am sure if the Slovak g
71 luckyone : It is not a joke. It has been proven in many studies that for most drugs treatment is many times more effective than enforcement and punishment. Hero
72 SOBHI51 : But can you go to the corner shop and buy 2g of Heroin legally? Please respect my intelligence. I was on morphine shots (4 daily) while i was treated
73 ajd1992 : Incorrect - Heroin isn't legal at all, it's a class A. Methadone is however, for weaning addicts off things like heroin but otherwise is illegal (I t
74 Post contains images dc9northwest : Very boring indeed Of course. They really brought it on themselves when they planted explosives on a few passengers and let them fly throughout Europ
75 SOBHI51 : Maybe as a medicine with doctor prescription but for sure not available in the open market. When i was dismissed from the hospital in Paris, i was pr
76 dc9northwest : Certainly as a prescription... No country actually permits the sale of heroin, or morphine, etc... otherwise.
77 Springbok747 : Ah..wasn't aware of that. Thanks for clearing that up.
78 wn700driver : Countries that don't invent reasons to chop your head off... (Well, a good start anyway...) Oh, well then. Glad to know (in some instances anyway) th
79 HKA : I lived in canada for 10 years and now working in saudi for last 2 years. I feel quite comfortable here. We have a lot of white people working in the
80 Maverick623 : Outside of Baghdad, most neighborhoods have lower murder rates than certain sections of Chicago and DC. What does that have to do with their governme
81 stealthz : Where KSA differs from those other "safe" countries is that the rate of capital punishment almost exactly equals the murder rate. Visitors are expect
82 SOBHI51 : You call that open minded? No i ask from you to come and try to understand our costoms, herritage, way of living, where we come from. You do not have
83 Baroque : Ah yes, the only 100% efficient police force in the world. I can believe that - NOT.
84 AlexEU : Who goes to KSA, except Hajj visitors and oil industry workers? Its virtually impossible to get KSA visa as a tourist. What about Israeli Muslims?
85 luckyone : KSA has millions of expats from the Subcontinent and other parts of Asia there to do the work that is deemed "too low" for native Saudis to do. That
86 stealthz : If the capital punishmewnt rate was indicative of a 100% success rate in Homicide investigations that might be the case but it isn't. Because your ca
87 SOBHI51 : And you know that from? OK i asked around and the story is as followed. This guy used to have a TV channel called Shehrazade where he actually was us
88 wn700driver : None of that would be cause for punishment in any civilized nation. This is not a defense. Even deportation over this issue would have embarassing (f
89 SOBHI51 : No need to. He knew exactely what he was doing, he knew the law, he broke it. Did not have to come here, if he stayed back home nothing would have ha
90 Springbok747 : What I don't get is the guy didn't do anything in KSA. He was actually a TV host in Lebanon where he made shows about astrology etc..which is apparent
91 SOBHI51 : No he did come to KSA under the pretence of Omrah but he continued his old habits while on that visit in defiance of the rules and laws of the countr
92 Baroque : Er well possibly not exactly or entirely. From Wiki Historically significant traditions of astrology include Arab and Persian astrology (Medieval, Ne
93 SOBHI51 : It has nothing to do with astrology. It's about wichcraft and believing in other divine powers than God. He was preaching not even another religion b
94 directorguy : Oh this changes things, I was initially that he had committed the offences in Lebanon, and that Saudi Arabia was simply trying to exercise control ov
95 casinterest : That statement could apply just the same to the folks that made the law as the person being persecuted under it. However your point is made that if h
96 Post contains images 474218 : So I take it that "weather men" do not predict the weather only report the weather in the KSA?
97 SOBHI51 : If you are preaching devil worship then don't. It was not that he was predicting the weather or your horoscope, this guy was preaching devil worship,
98 casinterest : Cam you actually post a link to where this guy was actually practicing Devil worship? From what I have seen, every site in English, asserts that he w
99 SOBHI51 : This is what people who knows the facts told me some of them were Lebanese. If KSA did not want why did they give him an Omrah visa? Unless he expres
100 casinterest : But no official court documents or startements to that affect other than "practicing witchcraft"?
101 SOBHI51 : Do you have any court documents you can show me? Neither i or anybody i know can get to them.
102 casinterest : No I was just getting to the point that since neither of us have access to the documents or evidence of guilt, then we are basically getting a senten
103 JoeCanuck : What we do know is, the guy is condemned to death for practicing sorcery or witchcraft. Regardless of anything else regarding KSA, this one thing is
104 wn700driver : Agreed. The question is how much of this foolishness will the rest if the world put up with before we realize that "K"SA is at least as bad other nat
105 Post contains links MoltenRock : It really is hard to take anyone from the US seriously about criminal punishment when they have the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world
106 JoeCanuck : How many people have they killed or imprisoned for witchcraft? The comparison is absurd. It's a wee bit different condemning someone to death for com
107 MoltenRock : Yes they do, and I despise it. I am opposed to the death penalty from anyone in any country. Is the USA "better" because they executed innocent peopl
108 DocLightning : I think that someone should have a pretty low threshold for it. Were this a U.S. citizen, I would very much hope that the U.S. President would be on
109 SOBHI51 : The people here likes him so he will stay, unless somebody is thinking of invading and try to take the power away by force, but he is not in charge a
110 JoeCanuck : Bottom line; no sane person can condone the execution of someone for witchcraft. That the leaders of KAS would ever even let the charge public shows h
111 wn700driver : So let me understand you. . . It's okay to have a problem with the dp after defecting to singapore, where they still have the dp, but if you live in
112 SOBHI51 : And only a fool will believe that. You are not talking about a banana republic. If you want to export the same political system as you are doing in I
113 DocLightning : 1) It's witchcraft. So right there, any argument based on reasonable behavior goes out the window. 2) It's a foreign citizen, so it's hardly an inter
114 SOBHI51 : But he is not an American citizen, let the Lebanese deal with it. So with this logic two wrongs makes it right?
115 wn700driver : And you can keep yours... For as long as it lasts... Anyway, we'll hardley have to do anythiong about it. When the royals run out of cash over the ne
116 MoltenRock : Then again all religion is "witchcraft" by its very definition including Christianity, Islam, et al.
117 JoeCanuck : What would the other wrong be? The first, stunningly obvious wrong is killing someone for the incredible charge of practicing witchcraft...what's the
118 SOBHI51 : I am with the respect of the law. He could have done whatever he wanted outside KSA, he came here in defiance and intentionaly broke the law, he knew
119 stealthz : Answer the question. Are you for the death penalty for this trumped up charge from the middle ages?
120 BMI727 : Not in Saudi Arabia.
121 SOBHI51 : Why? Was he kidnapped from another country or did he come willingly to KSA? I did. Do you have any proof it was trumped up?
122 ajd1992 : They're going to kill him for basically have an opinion. That sounds pretty trumped up to me.
123 BMI727 : I meant that it wasn't "obviously wrong" in Saudi Arabia.
124 SOBHI51 : You are turning it to a political matter or freedom of expression matter. It is not. Even if i do not like the law it is there and he broke it, what
125 stealthz : Perhaps not trumped up but certainly from the middle ages. One of the big issues the Arab world has with the "West" is they feel the "West" considers
126 SOBHI51 : I could agree that it is time to have a look at some existing laws. But till then those laws like them or not are hereand should be respected.
127 wn700driver : The problem is that this little fiefdom doesn't have laws. This man wasn't executed for breaking any specific law. He was executed for doing what is
128 luckyone : Question for you SOBHI51. How many households in KSA have trinkets and chachtkas guarding against black magic and evil spirits? Many would consider th
129 DocLightning : 1) It's witchcraft. So right there, any argument based on reasonable behavior goes out the window. 2) It's a foreign citizen, so it's hardly an inter
130 SOBHI51 : First as i show a lot of respect to your leaders i hope you do the same Second where did you get this BS from. At no time the king was involved in he
131 BMI727 : They are a sovereign state which means that they can have or not have whatever sort of laws they wish. If you don't agree with the laws that they hav
132 santosdumont : Interesting that the United States chooses to do large-scale business with a state where Christians are prohibited from publicly wearing cross-shaped
133 wn700driver : How can that be the problem when there are no laws? I'm really not going to get into this except to say that as a citizen of thge modern world, I don
134 dc9northwest : The thing is: "It doesn't matter what you've done In my words you are a sinner" Which is how KSA seems to enforce their laws. This is eerily similar t
135 SOBHI51 : Can you make up your mind? Do we harsh, mideval laws or we do not have any laws? Stop changing courses. Don't you are free but i respect your preside
136 474218 : The same religious police that several years chased young girls back into a burning building because they escaped the fire without their hair being c
137 SOBHI51 : You forgot to add that those responsible for this tragedy were prosecuted and punished. A very sad stupid incident.
138 BMI727 : Well, they don't have oil, and there are plenty of nice sunny islands in the region where we can vacation instead. Being wealthy opens doors, and in
139 JoeCanuck : So you're supporting the execution of a person for performing witchcraft. Do you actually believe witchcraft is real? Do you believe witches exist?
140 Post contains images Fly2HMO : If the whole world was atheist, we would never hear about this sort of crap
141 SOBHI51 : Well as i said before, he was not only accused with that but also for calling for devil worshiping.
142 Post contains links dc9northwest : Oh, my! Just like the "witches" in New England are said to have summoned the Devil! Yes, it's clear, KSA is about 300 years behind. I think they shou
143 SOBHI51 : Yeh because we are a backward country with no education system. Get real If you are proud to worship the devil well you fit the age group but there i
144 dc9northwest : That's not objective, that's a moral call, which is why our world is shit. And I don't worship the Devil, I'm just a plain atheist. I'm not sure that
145 wn700driver : Nope, no laws. Just the will of the king. Is there a point there somewhere? A nonexistant devil is a lot less dangerous than kingdom that randomly dec
146 dc9northwest : Brilliant, mate! Agree wholeheartedly.
147 SOBHI51 : I asked you for a proof, you keep repeating yourself like a parrot, either put up or ... you know the rest All religion believes in the devil you as
148 474218 : The same can be said by Americans. Just how many of the 9-11 terrorist were Saudis?[Edited 2010-04-10 18:49:22]
149 SOBHI51 : Thank you for the compliment. I do question a few laws and wish they are changed, buy till then i am for whatever laws which exist, if everyone choos
150 SOBHI51 : What does that have to do with our discussion, but 9-11 was a terrorist group and not a country. I hope you as an American is not comparing the USA w
151 ajd1992 : I'm not turning it into a political or freedom of expression matter. It's just a statement/my opinion on it. People in the UK may say that they want
152 wn700driver : Hey, what does Iraq have to do with it also? You brought it up a few posts earlier; I think that gives someone else the right to go all over the plac
153 474218 : You said: All I was tying to point out is that we were not interfering with your way of life on 9-10-2001. Can you understand that?
154 Baroque : Reminds me of the (Australian) cartoon at the time of US nuclear ships being banned by NZ of a guy in a long coat phoning the NZ PM of the say with t
155 Maverick623 : Which is exactly why you lose this argument. Who cares? Religion and government should not be the same thing, ever. Please explain how driving reckle
156 DocLightning : As I understand it, the activities are alleged to have occurred in Lebanon. If this were a U.S. Citizen, I would hope that the President would inform
157 SOBHI51 : Again Doc he was caught while preaching devil worship in KSA. Why? Religion is a way of life. Just an example about braking the law in another countr
158 Maverick623 : Because religion is based on stories and superstition from thousands of years ago, and used in exactly the same way it's being used today: to control
159 SOBHI51 : And you are part of my country since?
160 ajd1992 : A way of life, not a way of how to run a country. Religion is a personal belief based on crap from thousands of years ago. To be honest, I can't see
161 SOBHI51 : That does not make it completely absolete. Millions of people still live by the 10 commendments. wich if you look at it are more like laws, do not ki
162 DocLightning : Except he didn't preach Devil Worship, did he? There's no evidence he did.
163 SOBHI51 : That was what he was accused of, Doc, now did i see any evidence myslef? No i did not, but even in Lebanese newspapers nobody mentionned the lack of
164 signol : Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the Saudi ruling, it seems to me that this law shows how gullible the Saudi government thinks its people are, th
165 Post contains images SOBHI51 : Not that i am trying to say i am intelligent but for sure if somebody came to me with such a proposal, well he will have a hard time sitting for a lo
166 Maverick623 : Exactly. Based on. Not run by. If you seriously believe that this guy was actually practicing witchcraft, then this discussion really is over.
167 DocLightning : Because it's WITCHCRAFT. There is no evidence for witchcraft because there is no such thing as witchcraft! So there is no way to prove that someone i
168 SOBHI51 : Sorry Doc this is uncalled for. I can accept personal attacks but not against Allah or God. We might have different religions but after all we all be
169 DocLightning : I will attack God all I want because I am an American and, unlike you, I am free to do so loudly and publicly. And yes, I am an atheist. I do not bel
170 SOBHI51 : First there is no difference between the way Islam is practiced by the royal family and the poorest person in the street. Second you can believe in G
171 srbmod : At this point, this thread has run its' course because it has turned into a thread bashing religion in general. From the Forum Rules: There's been qui
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