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Eurosceptic French Town Rejects Euro  
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27308 posts, RR: 60
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

The European single currency is under unprecedented pressure. But even in the most staunchly pro-European countries, some people have never been enamoured of the euro, as David Chazan discovers in rural France.

Shopkeeper Sylvie Auteau counts out a pile of French franc notes on the counter of her clothes shop.
"Most people prefer francs," says Ms Auteau. "They are French, after all."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8588048.stm

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineandz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3906 times:
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I remember when the UK decimalised one TV station was going round the country asking people what they thought of the new currency. In one remote little village they asked an old lady and she said "I don't think it will catch on here"  


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

I like French Francs too and I wish we would have kept them instead of Euros. I have seen prices going up like crazy since the French Franc was taken out. A baguette now costs the equivalent of 6,50 French Francs, the same for a croissant. Crazy! Some must have really earned their bread and butter from the Euro!  Wow!


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinedirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1708 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

Very interesting topic. Had no idea francs were still in circulation in some communities. I must admit, even I miss them. It's made intra-Euro travel easier since you don't have to change currency etc. but at the same time a major symbol of French cultural identity and French economic prowess is gone. It's no wonder some people lament the passing of the Franc. On recent visits to France, even I occassionally lapse and say 'franc' instead of 'euro'-simply because as a kid, I always used francs when visiting the country.

User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

This is why I'm happy we still use Pound Sterling. It's the last proper British institution we have left, and if we go Euro the only thing that differentiates is from the rest of Europe (barring the 17 miles of water between us and France) is the road signs are in imperial.

User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4318 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Sorry to break it to you, but outside of Europe no one sees a difference between the UK, and France, Germany or Italy. You are all Europe.

Of course we discern the cultural and linguistic differences, but as a ''civilization'' (a loaded term for this case), people elsewhere in the world make no differences between the British and the rest of Europe.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27308 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 5):
Sorry to break it to you, but outside of Europe no one sees a difference between the UK, and France, Germany or Italy. You are all Europe.

Well plenty of countries I know do so it must be a lack of education in certain countries if they think that.  


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 5):
Sorry to break it to you, but outside of Europe no one sees a difference between the UK, and France, Germany or Italy. You are all Europe.

Anyone who really thought that way would truly be the epitomy of ignorance.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1818 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3564 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 4):

Quite right. I love the pound and would be against the euro. Mind you, there is a clever little currency in London. In an area called Brixton I believe they have introduced the Brixton pound. It's one for one with the pound sterling but it can only be spent in the town of Brixton. Very clever as it keeps money local!!



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4318 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3516 times:

There is as much difference between a British person and and Spanish Person as there is between a German and an Italian. No more no less, again from the view outside of Europe and without getting too deep into specifics in which it would be possible to find major distinctions between any nationality in Europe.

It is the same with Asians, many times people that are not Asian will not make a difference between a Korean, Japanese, or Chinese (even as I have learned to tell them away from each other), many don't.

Same with North Americans, outside of the region many will not see any difference between someone from Ontario, Western Canada, California, a yankee or a southerner. They are all the same.

And the same in Latin America, most non-Latin Americans see all people in the region as one and the same.

So it is not just Europe or the UK it is just a fact of life.

Russianjet, don't selectively quote me. You know what you did  

EDIT: Basically my point being that a currency is not really going to change or boost the perception of Britain being fully part of Europe, outside of Europe. In that sense, it is just a feel-good British object.

On the practical side however, it might have been a really good decision if things go downhill in the Eurozone with Greece, etc.

[Edited 2010-04-02 11:24:45]


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):
Some must have really earned their bread and butter from the Euro! Wow!

Who do you suspect?



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27308 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 9):
And the same in Latin America, most non-Latin Americans see all people in the region as one and the same.


Well no one in my circle of friends from many many different backgrounds and nationalities think that way. They know the difference between a Brazilian and an Argentinian, an Indian and a Pakistani, Chinese from Japanese. Its again down to education and knowledge of Geography.


User currently offlinebaguy From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

But it isn't just France is it! All over Europe prices have gone up - for example some Portuguese friends of ours say it is much more expensive to live in Portugal with the euro as opposed to the escudo. In my view for many it has made the 'rich' richer and the 'poor' poorer.

BAguy


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

Quoting baguy (Reply 12):
But it isn't just France is it! All over Europe prices have gone up - for example some Portuguese friends of ours say it is much more expensive to live in Portugal with the euro as opposed to the escudo. In my view for many it has made the 'rich' richer and the 'poor' poorer.

Yeah but that's a myth. You can measure price increases, it's called inflation - and the introduction of the Euro has not pushed inflation in Europe above its usual level. Of course prices are higher in Portugal - or anywhere - than they were 10 years ago, but that would have occured without the Euro as well. If anything, the Euro has led to higher price stability in some southern European countries which were previously notorious for their high inflation rates.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27308 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3336 times:

Quoting baguy (Reply 12):
But it isn't just France is it! All over Europe prices have gone up

In Ireland for instance things have rocketed. Bin charges/Food prices/Electronics. You change your Euro and go across the border to the UK and shop and its so much cheaper. So you are changing your Euro to a currency 12% stronger and its still 20-25% cheaper ! Something must be wrong. One reason I hope the UK never goes into the Euro.


User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3441 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 14):
In Ireland for instance things have rocketed. Bin charges/Food prices/Electronics. You change your Euro and go across the border to the UK and shop and its so much cheaper. So you are changing your Euro to a currency 12% stronger and its still 20-25% cheaper ! Something must be wrong. One reason I hope the UK never goes into the Euro.

Well the Irish economy has changed a weeeee bit in the last 10 years, hasn't it?

I strongly suspect [long term] price differences between the UK and Ireland are much more due to government economic and tax policy than the name of the currency.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 14):
So you are changing your Euro to a currency 12% stronger and its still 20-25% cheaper !

The currency isn't actually stronger, it just has a higher nominal value. The USD is hardly stronger than the JPY, despite being "worth" around 90 times more. The Euro is actually much stronger than the Pound right now.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 5):
Sorry to break it to you, but outside of Europe no one sees a difference between the UK, and France, Germany or Italy. You are all Europe.

Speak for yourself.

Doesn't anyone else see a problem with a small town using a currency that is not supposed to be in circulation? In effect, to use an American term, isn't the Euro the only "legal tender" in the Euro-zone?

The use of any other currency undermines the Euro. If people decided they can use what they want as currency (absent the barter system for goods and services) doesn't that de-value the Euro?

Quoting Rara (Reply 13):
and the introduction of the Euro has not pushed inflation in Europe above its usual level. Of course prices are higher in Portugal - or anywhere - than they were 10 years ago, but that would have occured without the Euro as well. If anything, the Euro has led to higher price stability in some southern European countries which were previously notorious for their high inflation rates.

I don't know, it seems everytime I visit my Dad in Greece, the prices have out-paced what I would consider a stable rate of inflation. My Dad tends to agree. He's living it on a fixed income. Of course, Greece has a whole other set of financial problems to boot.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27308 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 15):
price differences between the UK and Ireland are much more due to government economic and tax policy than the name of the currency.

Things have rocketed in price since the introduction of the Euro despite what everyone likes to think.

And yes things have changed regards the economy , we have gone from boom to bust in that time period. And if NAMA goes wrong we are really screwed.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3722 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 9):
There is as much difference between a British person and and Spanish Person as there is between a German and an Italian. No more no less, again from the view outside of Europe and without getting too deep into specifics in which it would be possible to find major distinctions between any nationality in Europe.

To claim there is no difference between an Italian and a German is really quite ignorant.

That said, i can see how an uneducated or untraveled person could think that way when we see all the time on this forum people claiming allegiance to "European" doctrine and often, the various countries handing sovereignty to the politicians in Brussels.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27308 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 19):
"European" doctrine and often, the various countries handing sovereignty to the politicians in Brussels.

The one thing that has come from all this economic crisis is the huge split between Europeans. We are not one we are seperate countries/cultures and ideas and we always will be. The EU is a false Union and it would be interesting to forward to 2050 and see what is left of it. I think there will come a time when they all want their Independance again.


User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 17):
The use of any other currency undermines the Euro. If people decided they can use what they want as currency (absent the barter system for goods and services) doesn't that de-value the Euro?

Not really as long as the use of French Francs is not mandatory and the Euro is still accepted. It´s similar to a club or a large concert mandating the use of their own chips/coins/tokens (whatever you want to call them). Since the village has only 7000 inhabitants, chances are the "coins" used at a mayor concert venue have a wider circulation then the French Francs!



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4318 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Everyone is misunderstanding.

The original premise by a poster was ''the pound is the only thing that differenciates us from Europe'', my response is that while this maybe so for the Brits, for most it's just a currency and nothing more. Travelling from Paris to London and switching from Euros to Pounds does not (at least with me), give the feel that I have left Europe in any fashion whatsoever. Feels like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I must still be in a european country.

When I compared British to Spanish, or Italian to German, it was to point out that there ARE differences between them all, but not MORE differences between one compared to the other because of a currency or other such standard.

Come on, even ignorant people could tell if dropped magically From Italy to Germany, or from Denmark to France that they are not in the same country. I would never argue that.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3152 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 5):
Sorry to break it to you, but outside of Europe no one sees a difference between the UK, and France, Germany or Italy. You are all Europe.

Of course we discern the cultural and linguistic differences, but as a ''civilization'' (a loaded term for this case), people elsewhere in the world make no differences between the British and the rest of Europe.

I love it when I break to my British friends the news that they are, in fact, Europeans and they refuse to accept it. The reactions are the same as you see on this thread, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Quoting baguy (Reply 12):
But it isn't just France is it! All over Europe prices have gone up - for example some Portuguese friends of ours say it is much more expensive to live in Portugal with the euro as opposed to the escudo.

Well, what can I say, your Portuguese friends are very uninformed. A lot of people like to say "oh, the Euro doubled all prices overnight" (one Euro is 200 escudos, or about twice the standard measure previously) but somehow nobody cut their consumption in half...



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 18):
Things have rocketed in price since the introduction of the Euro despite what everyone likes to think.

Well that's a no-brainer. What's a typical annual inflation rate in Ireland, 3%? In the nine years since the introduction of the Euro, that would add up to almost 30%. Meaning the average product or service costs around 30% more than back in 2000. That would have occured with or without the Euro.

Now if you can show that the introduction Euro has increased inflation rates, you'd have a point. But the fact that "things have rocketed in price" doesn't prove anything.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
25 Post contains images ajd1992 : To be fair, we might believe it more if we were actually connected to the rest of the continent. Nobody in the UK says they're European before anythi
26 Post contains images Pyrex : Portugal is further removed from the rest of Europe than you guys are. All you need to do is swim across 17 miles of water, we need to drive through
27 idealstandard : While it may be nostalgic to some (I for one do not share your nostalgia, believe me), from a business and economy sense, the pound won't be with us
28 Post contains images ajd1992 : OK, as a businessman, I see your point. I still hate the Euro though - it's like monopoly money and our Sterling is already going that way. The newer
29 oa260 : No but UK entry is at least another 2 elections away . The idea of the Euro is great but we have all paid a price for it.
30 idealstandard : I agree there, they could put more effort into making the money more nostalgic. Yes, at first.
31 Post contains links Baroque : And there was me thinking that QEII was Queen of The United Kingdom and not The Netherlands as we may have been close to learning for the WTO thread
32 AverageUser : Thats just where the tragedy of the Euro lies -- some people believed a change of currency and concentration of monetary power in the hands of the EC
33 Post contains links and images Braybuddy : I'm a bit late to the latest "Bash the euro" party, so forgive me for being a party pooper. First off, there's no evidence to support the contention t
34 AverageUser : Yep, one rate does not fit all, unless we live in a totally integrated European economy, which will never be a reality.
35 Braybuddy : We're living in interesting times, and one where the euro is being seriously stress-tested, but so far so good, If it can survive the current financi
36 Rara : While I agree with your points, this one I don't quite understand. Wouldn't leaving the Euro mean a new, devaluated pound, high inflation and accordi
37 AM744 : I respectfully disagree. From a 'civilization' stand point we could add the US, Canada, Australia and NZ to the 'Western' bag. Now, if we take the ge
38 Braybuddy : But the debt would be in euro, US dollars and other currencies. So for argument's sake, say we owed 10 billion euro worth of external debt on leaving
39 AverageUser : We've been told that will definitely not happen. Either the leadership, or Soros and all his money is right here ... it's truly interesting times ...
40 Post contains images Derico : And that's exactly my point, but those differences make the world interesting. On a very general brush though, when people are in London, most do not
41 Rara : Ah you're talking about external debt. Now it makes sense, thanks.
42 marcus : And that is what makes travelling interesting.....imagine if everywhere you went all things were standardized.
43 Braybuddy : Oops, sorry. I didn't make that clearer! I think Derico makes a valid point, and the more removed one is from the continent the more homogenous it se
44 OA260 : Greece wont be leaving the Euro and the worst is over for Greece. All the hype has been about Greece in the media but there are a few other countries
45 Braybuddy : Maybe it's the new reality hitting Irish shops. I have to say I was surprised, as I was expecting both to cost over a euro. And this was in Superquin
46 OA260 : But even at its worst rate its still cheaper in the North. I did a huge shop at ASDA on Thursday and I saved over €70 and that was at a rate of 90p
47 Post contains links Braybuddy : Well make the most of it! This will change in time as UK inflation is currently running around 3%. Here we're in a period of deflation, with the Cons
48 Post contains images OA260 : I have been the last decade so I wont hold my breath for the Eurozone ( Republic of Ireland ) to suddenly do something its never done before. Take a
49 Post contains images AverageUser : Could be stealing .. the European monetary union will be technically dissolved this year, as Luxembourg, Malta, and Finland that were the last countr
50 Braybuddy : But we have Aldi and Lidl here! None where I live, unfortunately, and the nearest is 8 km away, and the prices are up to 50 per cent cheaper than the
51 DocLightning : Yes, but there is not, I suppose, a law barring alternative economies.
52 Braybuddy : I missed this yesterday, somehow. Without going into the whole history of the Icelandic banking collapse what I was talking about was the doubling of
53 OA260 : I would hardly call it quality food. I have been to both and there are only a few items I would buy there, the rest is junk.
54 Braybuddy : You know I always thought this too, until I checked one of the stores out at the end of last year after hearing so much about them. My eyes were open
55 Post contains images OA260 : I like my trusted brands and at ASDA and Sainsburys I can get those 24/7 without being bent over when I get to the till lol.. My mate bought some was
56 Kappel : IMHO not clever at all, as you always need two sets of currencies if you ever plan to leave the town. I like the Euro a lot, IMHO it has brought Euro
57 Post contains images AverageUser : Ouch, here comes the graph that was missing: [Edited 2010-04-06 05:36:34]
58 Braybuddy : Which is?
59 AverageUser : The Icelandic currency collapsed due to disproportionate indebtedness, there's the short history for you. We're not sure yet what the crisis will res
60 Braybuddy : We weren't arguing, or even talking about, the colllapse of the Icelandic krona, we were talking about the fall-out, which resulted in foreign curren
61 AverageUser : Yes, why would you, when the others will get your a** covered? Thank you for our housing boom that has already began here, as the ECB will not be abl
62 Post contains images Derico : Bingo, that sums it up. My original point was this precisely, having the pound or not having it might be culturally significant within Europe, but fo
63 Braybuddy : If your government has the willpower, it can dampen any housing boom. Like putting a ceiling on your banks' lending habits. Economists here are predi
64 Post contains images Asturias : fixed .. asturias portugese person
65 AverageUser : Google "Greek goverment bonds" (is preselectable even) and you shall be provided an ample context.
66 Post contains images Braybuddy : Ah you're okay, thanks all the same, I have some Christmas cards to write . . .
67 AverageUser : Send a handsome one to Soros if you please....
68 Post contains links AverageUser : Bumping this with news of the recent Greek development: Particularly worrying is that the spread between the Greek and German 2-year bonds swelled by
69 Post contains links oa260 : Trichet says Greece not in need of rescue Friday, 9 April 2010 12:18 Greece is not at the point where it needs a financial bailout and is in no danger
70 Post contains links oa260 : Greek borrowing costs ease off record highs The interest rate Greece must pay to borrow on the bond market eased off record high levels today after th
71 Post contains links AverageUser : An excellent piece of background here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...into-global-margin-call-as-confide The odd twist today is that Greece ca
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