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Tea Partiers Wealthier/more Educated...  
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

The New York Times/CBS poll find members of the Tea Party have higher incomes and are better educated than most Americans.

"according to the poll, their incomes and education levels are well above average.

Of the Tea Party supporters who responded, 20 percent make more than $100,000, versus 14 percent for the general pool of people polled. Fourteen percent of Tea Party supporters have a post-graduate education, compared with 10 percent for the general public. Twenty-three percent of Tea Party supporters have a college degree, compared with 15 percent for the general public, according to the poll."


So much for the folks who think Tea Partiers are uneducated, disgruntled, racist   white red necks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...orters-richer-educated-poll-finds/


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
171 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
So much for the folks who think Tea Partiers are uneducated, disgruntled, racist white red necks.

First of all, the above means nothing. Typically, and I say typically, people with post-graduate degrees are liberals. You're EXTREME wealthy, (not talking $250,000/yr) tend to be liberal. And people with college degrees tend to be more liberal.

All I think this shows is how radical they really are if they've had this much education and opportunity to learn at higher income levels, but are this racist, uneducated, disgruntled, white red necks. I'm sorry, just because you have money and an education doesn't mean you incapable of being racist red necks. Many stupid individuals have post-graduate degrees. Look at our backward lawmakers here in OK! They wanted to take away the Matthew Shepard act, and instead of doing that, they accidentally left the Matthew Shepard act, but took away discrimination laws for everyone else.

Your above statistics mean nothing.


User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Oh, wow, 23% have a college education... well then! what a pack of einsteins..


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
First of all, the above means nothing. Typically, and I say typically, people with post-graduate degrees are liberals. You're EXTREME wealthy, (not talking $250,000/yr) tend to be liberal. And people with college degrees tend to be more liberal.

Probably only because of largely useless social sciences courses.

edit: perhaps a bit too harsh, but not by much!

[Edited 2010-04-15 09:50:34]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13741 posts, RR: 61
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3627 times:
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Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
So much for the folks who think Tea Partiers are uneducated, disgruntled, racist white red necks.

First of all, the above means nothing.

Because you say so? Who died and made you Gallup?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 8):
Teabaggers

I guess this explains where you stand...   



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1367 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3614 times:

Anyone ever heard of sampling and response biases? Maybe social science educations aren't so useless after all. It's hardly surprising that you get a result of higher education levels than you expect; more highly-educated people are more likely to respond to surveys than less-educated people. Granted, the article says nothing about the survey's methodology (even paper vs. phone), but I take pretty much all media polls with a big grain of salt.

User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3615 times:

Of course they are a bit wealthier. White people make more in America, and the party is 99% white people. And the point is???

The TeaParty People I've all met are disgruntled middle managers who have had their wages cut, benefits cut, and are bitter about having to work harder than they used to or their parents did. The have a sense of entitlement that they are white, middle class, and therefore deserved a $100K job working 35 hours a week, and playing golf on Fridays with a secure retirement package and promotion timeline without having to do much of anything. Those days are over and these people are bitter about it, and feel others have "stolen" their golden goose.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3572 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
Of course they are a bit wealthier. White people make more in America, and the party is 99% white people. And the point is???

You wouldn't have anything like "facts" or "sources" to back this up would you Falcon?

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
The TeaParty People I've all met are disgruntled middle managers who have had their wages cut, benefits cut, and are bitter about having to work harder than they used to or their parents did. The have a sense of entitlement that they are white, middle class, and therefore deserved a $100K job working 35 hours a week, and playing golf on Fridays with a secure retirement package and promotion timeline without having to do much of anything. Those days are over and these people are bitter about it, and feel others have "stolen" their golden goose.

This is so funny, in another thread the tea party was classified as out of work lower class, low intelligence people. Now all of a sudden they are smart people with good jobs? Give me a break they are simply people that work for a living and don't want to pay 20% in taxes to support a bunch of people that refuse to get their asses off the couch. Entitlement? The only people that are feeling entitled here are the ones that feel they should get a free eduacation and free health care for nothing on the backs of the people that get up every morning and bust their ass 10-12 hours a day. You want that I suggest you move to Sweden.


User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3567 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Oh, wow, 23% have a college education... well then! what a pack of einsteins..

Context is everything:

Of the Tea Party supporters who responded, 20 percent make more than $100,000, versus 14 percent for the general pool of people polled. Fourteen percent of Tea Party supporters have a post-graduate education, compared with 10 percent for the general public. Twenty-three percent of Tea Party supporters have a college degree, compared with 15 percent for the general public, according to the poll.


User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3562 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
The TeaParty People I've all met are disgruntled middle managers who have had their wages cut, benefits cut, and are bitter about having to work harder than they used to or their parents did. The have a sense of entitlement that they are white, middle class, and therefore deserved a $100K job working 35 hours a week, and playing golf on Fridays with a secure retirement package and promotion timeline without having to do much of anything. Those days are over and these people are bitter about it, and feel others have "stolen" their golden goose.


I'm going to guess you haven't met any. Yes, we feel entitled. Entitled to keep as much as we earn as posisble and rather than work 50-60 hours a week so that nealry half our income can be redistributed to others. You call that greed and I could care less.

[Edited 2010-04-15 11:45:17]

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3562 times:

Quoting IADCA (Reply 5):
Anyone ever heard of sampling and response biases? Maybe social science educations aren't so useless after all. It's hardly surprising that you get a result of higher education levels than you expect; more highly-educated people are more likely to respond to surveys than less-educated people. Granted, the article says nothing about the survey's methodology (even paper vs. phone), but I take pretty much all media polls with a big grain of salt.

Statisticians study a lot about that and how to avoid it.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6920 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3557 times:

The poll was about "Tea Party supporters". They didn't actually go to a protest to poll people there.

So I would say those supporters with high income are not those we see on TV (yeah, even in France they made the news with their guns and beards and slogans). Maybe more along typical GOP supporter that don't like what the GOP has become.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3546 times:

Quoting Boeing1970 (Reply 9):
I'm going to guess you haven't met any.

Quite the contrary. That or those that self-identified as "tea party" people were lying, which I doubt. I met a number of them, and can't say I've been anything but amused by their cognitive dissonance. All of them, and I mean every one of them, only had talking points with no basis in history, facts, or relevance of what they decried. Once you start asking them about their personal lives and what's transpired, it's a very easy to see what motivates them, and why. It doesn't mean it's accurate, it just means that's what these people believe. It also makes it easier to determine how to market / sell to these people. Much as the astroturf purveyors have been selling their agenda to these Tea Party People.

*shrug*


User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1367 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
Statisticians study a lot about that and how to avoid it.

And that's why polls by statisticians and political scientists are usually a lot more reliable than off-the-cuff media polls. The media does its election polling pretty well, using well-defined likely-voter screens, etc., but the everyday stuff is still pretty second-rate.


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3875 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
So I would say those supporters with high income are not those we see on TV

Yep, few that have jobs and not protesting. The ones participating during weekday rallies are probably on unemployment insurance, social security and disability...as well as section 8.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
So much for the folks who think Tea Partiers are uneducated, disgruntled, racist white red necks.

Well, if you read the article, it says people who support the tea party are usually wealthier and educated. The people I poke fun at are the out of work idiots that the aforementioned rich smart people use as their minions to protest the issues that can make them more money. For example, politicians use them as minions. Ditto with insurance company executives. These guys all support the teabaggers because they can use them for their own benefit.

Quoting IADCA (Reply 5):
but I take pretty much all media polls with a big grain of salt.

as do I

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
The poll was about "Tea Party supporters". They didn't actually go to a protest to poll people there.

Exactly my point. Even if they did go to a tea party support and ask questions, the people there themselves would be too ashamed to tell the truth.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):
All of them, and I mean every one of them, only had talking points with no basis in history, facts, or relevance of what they decried.

Like I said, you haven't met any of them.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3471 times:

Quoting Boeing1970 (Reply 8):
Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Oh, wow, 23% have a college education... well then! what a pack of einsteins..

Context is everything:

Of the Tea Party supporters who responded, 20 percent make more than $100,000, versus 14 percent for the general pool of people polled. Fourteen percent of Tea Party supporters have a post-graduate education, compared with 10 percent for the general public. Twenty-three percent of Tea Party supporters have a college degree, compared with 15 percent for the general public, according to the poll.

There you go, letting the facts get in the wayof a good argument!


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3435 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 12):
All of them, and I mean every one of them, only had talking points with no basis in history, facts, or relevance of what they decried

Gee that sounds familiar ....

They know that giving up 40% of their income so college educated liberals can get a unemployment check and free healthcare is not cool... other than that what else do you need to know!



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 18):
They know that giving up 40% of their income so college educated liberals can get a unemployment check and free healthcare is not cool... other than that what else do you need to know!

40%? Hell if that all it was I wouldn't complain. Keep going higher.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11794 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
members of the Tea Party have higher incomes and are better educated than most Americans.

Elitists! Every last one of them! Don't they know the American people hate elitists? Only educated and higher income people are elitists!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 19):
40%? Hell if that all it was I wouldn't complain. Keep going higher.

If you're paying over 40% you're doing something wrong. That or you have Barney Madoff doing your taxes for you.

  


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15830 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3395 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
nd therefore deserved a $100K job working 35 hours a week, and playing golf on Fridays with a secure retirement package and promotion timeline without having to do much of anything.

They only get that if they have a union job  

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 6):
The TeaParty People I've all met are disgruntled middle managers who have had their wages cut, benefits cut, and are bitter about having to work harder than they used to or their parents did.

Or they could be legitimately disgruntled about the government using their money to subsidize people who don't work as hard (or at least don't have as much) as they do.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
They didn't actually go to a protest to poll people there.

Those who scream the loudest are usually the least intelligent. I don't like the bailouts and all that, but I wouldn't be caught dead with those tea party clowns.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 21):
If you're paying over 40% you're doing something wrong. That or you have Barney Madoff doing your taxes for you.

Clearly you aren't in the tax bracket that turns an otherwise wealthy person into an average Joe every April15th.

You see, at a certain point, the amount you can write off on your mortgage begins to decline, if you have student loans the interest can no longer be written down, if you have a kid their childcare can't be written down, or if you gave chartitably you can't wirte it off all of that either. Then maybe, just maybe, if you are lucky enough - as most of us are - you get hammered with the AMT.

Yes, we're all just a bunch of gready rich people.  

I'm guessing if you had to pay over $50k in taxes this year while better than 50% of the public either paid nothing or paid nothing and still got money back (still trying to figure this out) then you'd be pretty pissed off too.


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

Quoting Boeing1970 (Reply 23):
I'm guessing if you had to pay over $50k in taxes this year while better than 50% of the public either paid nothing or paid nothing and still got money back (still trying to figure this out) then you'd be pretty pissed off too.

Well you could always become an expat and get your $91,400 income exclusion for yourself, and another $91,400 for your spouse.

But the 400 richest Americans paid an average of 16.5% for their effective tax rate and yet so many on this board claim the US needs to lower taxes even further.

http://www.quickanded.com/2010/02/ef...-of-the-richest-400-americans.html


25 DocLightning : Please tell me: What is the highest tax bracket in the U.S.? I know the answer, do you? Nope. Just liars. If you're claiming a 50% tax rate in the Un
26 Boeing1970 : There are a lot more of us than the richest 400 sir. I really don't care what they pay. What I do know is that I get hammered every year.
27 mt99 : How much would you like to pay? What %? wondering...
28 MoltenRock : So why should anyone care what you pay? Or I pay? And yes I do pay taxes to the US government on a portion of my income / investments. Perhaps instea
29 Boeing1970 : I didn't say 50% and you know nothing about my tax bracket. Its not about what percent I would be willing to pay. Its about why others (50% of the pe
30 mt99 : Simple question. What would YOU like to pay? You must have an opinion.
31 AGM100 : Hey ,, its time to do your part ! It is time to get some skin in the game .. good liberals should never ever take a tax deduction ..ever. It is your
32 Post contains images Superfly : ....and yet they want to government off their back! Great to have you back Confuscius!
33 Boeing1970 : Everyone would like to pay zero, but that not the issue nor is it realistic - unless your like 50% of the American leach population.
34 mt99 : So what is a realistic number for you? Let get a base line going here. .. what would you LIKE to pay? are you afraid to tell us?
35 TransIsland : So this describes the minority of TPs, but what does it say about the remaining 77% without college degrees? I'm afraid that, by itself, this survey
36 Boeing1970 : 17%. That get you over your childish prodding?[Edited 2010-04-15 14:48:03]
37 lowrider : How about 10% gross? No deductions, no exceptions, across the board. You could do your taxes on a post it note.
38 Boeing1970 : Even better. Of course, the leaches would have to pay up which they won't want to do. Dump income tax completely and go with a national sales tax at
39 mt99 : So it it 10% or 17%?
40 Boeing1970 : We're done conversing. Just letting you know politely.[Edited 2010-04-15 14:53:04]
41 474218 : Simple I want something like the "Fair Tax". A tax on what you spend not what you make. Everyone should pay something rather that the top 50% of the
42 mt99 : Oh come on.. tell us what you consider to be fair. You obviously have a problem with how "hammered" you get. yet you do know how much you want to pay
43 Boeing1970 : For them its fair already. If you make a decent living, then you don't need it so taking more than 30% of it makes it fair.[Edited 2010-04-15 14:58:4
44 mt99 : Right. Rich people still spend more.. so the skewness of rich people paying more would probably not be solved..
45 BMI727 : That is my preferred solution. They don't spend more unless they want to.
46 474218 : I see you don't understand. Its not the rich paying more taxes that is the problem. Its that 45% that don't pay any taxes is the problem.
47 Boeing1970 : My hunch is he's in the 45%. Judging from his badgering on the issue he's of the opinion its somehow up to those of us who pay taxes to justify why w
48 MoltenRock : Ah, the FAUX noise machine talking points have the luddites riled up again I see. Please tell the rest of the class who these "payers of no taxes" mmm
49 PPVRA : The FairTax proposal would not change that. The prebate scheme included in the proposal would mean some people would get bigger checks from the gover
50 Post contains images Boeing1970 : As opposed to the Administration, I mean CNN no wait MSNBC talking points?
51 Post contains links lowrider : Don't take our word for it. Google is your friend. For your reading pleasure.... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...holds-apf-1105567323.html?x=0
52 Boeing1970 : Just so he doesn't miss the MSNBC link: In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making
53 Aaron747 : You must be doing something wrong then. Do you itemize? My father has made over $300K since the mid-1990s and has never paid over 30% until he recent
54 Boeing1970 : So our accountant is a baffoon? Yes, we itemize, and yes, we paid more than 30% this year.[Edited 2010-04-15 15:59:54]
55 Aaron747 : That may be part of the problem. That's part of the problem too. Whatever they say, and whoever they are, these people take care of #1 first. I'd nev
56 Boeing1970 : No. And no.
57 mt99 : Sorry bud.. your hunch machine needs a major tune up. Did your 17% hunch (or was it 10%) came from the place?
58 Aaron747 : Lacking basis for complaint then since you can't come up with any specifics. Other people in your tax bracket are paying less - something is amiss.
59 DeltaMD90 : Anyone who has taken a stats class should look at this poll with suspicion
60 Boeing1970 : Why is that? If you ask me they were looking for something they didn't get: Indications of widespread racism within the Tea Party. Are you from the S
61 Flighty : Well you would expect Tea Partiers would be TAXPAYERS... who are automatically in the upper 50% of households. People in the lower 50% do not pay net
62 Post contains images Mir : I thought the NYT was the bastion of liberalism and should never be trusted? -Mir
63 Aaron747 : Well aware but the point was that despite that and numerous other benefits that qualify as additional income, he's always paid under 30. No active mo
64 DocLightning : Yup. I can recommend a very good one for you. I probably make more than you do (statistically, given my income. I have no idea what yours is) and I d
65 Flighty : Fine, that does not contradict the idea that you pay 35% (actually) for income above a certain threshold. Unless you write off a lot of income someho
66 pgh234 : Ok genius...lets make this uber-simple for you so you can follow the math. Say I am in the 25% (low) tax bracket and get a $10K check. $10,000 Check
67 474218 : While I agree with you I think you took it a little too far. Unemployment tax $8? Unemployment taxes are paid by employers not the employee.
68 pgh234 : That varies by state.
69 Boeing1970 : They were hoping for this headline and didn't get it: "TEA Party members are uneducated middle class white people from the South." They didn't get th
70 474218 : I couldn't find any State that make the employee pay unemployment insurance, give me a hint?
71 mt99 : How much is ur tax refund? shouldnt it go against your 41% tax That is federal tax deductible... Are you being forced to drink? mm get a Hybrid? I th
72 Boeing1970 : Depends on how much you make.
73 mt99 : It still is though, and would move his 41% down. When he shows us a valid example i am sure that he will take it into account.
74 Post contains images pgh234 : Well, my state and my company tax tax out of my paycheck...but to make it easy on you...I will just take out the $8. I am a white, middle class, sing
75 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : By the time you pay federal, state, local, and all the other damn taxes we have (property tax, sales tax, etc.), I could believe many people are payi
76 cws818 : Maybe the poll wasn't complete last night. The newspaper comes out in the morning, after all. Plus, today is 4/15 which is when the tea parties plann
77 MoltenRock : The only reason people are jazzed up about this "Fair Tax" is because they think they'll pay less. And yet, they'll be screaming bloody murder when th
78 Flighty : The other reason is to get rid of the middle class 'Alcove' where a family pays nothing at 60k, but suddenly at 100k you're paying all kinds of taxes
79 mt99 : See that requires a 2 step thinking process. One more step than what those rich educated elitists of the Tea Party have. I just did the same calculat
80 PPVRA : Clearly you have not taken the time to educated yourself about the proposal. They are very upfront and clear about it not being a tax cut proposal. Y
81 Aaron747 : Well no - they're jazzed up about it because it means more equalization in the system. Some high earners are pissed because their friends pay less ta
82 PPVRA : To be fair, I'll give you this: some of the proponents to the FT claim it can reduce the tax gap (between actually collected versus owed) and therefo
83 Boeing1970 : Yeah. Right. And Katie Couric is Rush Limbaugh’s best friend. You don't see it because you've bought in.
84 AGM100 : All this talk about percentages and deductions ... special provisions , differments ,shelters and other ding dongs that only CPA's can really manipula
85 Aaron747 : Well in point of fact the WSJ and other financial publications have all reported that most truly middle class people are seeing larger refunds this y
86 AGM100 : I hear it described as ..those who dont pay much are getting a gift from those who do that is the sentiment. Personaly I dont care about that , as lo
87 Post contains images MoltenRock : The only way "spending cuts" will even make a dent is to cut off all the baby boomers from Social Security, Medicare, and other entitlement programs.
88 cws818 : What is the big deal about what hour of the day the poll was released at??? It was released, after all.
89 Post contains images Dreadnought : Wow, that two things today we agreed on. We need to look at who's moving in which direction. Glenn Beck had a couple of good charts to talk about yes
90 UAL747DEN : I couldn't even read all of this thread because we all know what crap it is! I just found a few things that shows the tea party talking points again!
91 Dreadnought : Obviously you are just repeating what you heard elsewhere and never bothered to look for yourself. Beck is sometimes goofy and goes a bit overboard,
92 UAL747DEN : Oh but your wrong, I do watch and listen on the radio to this cry baby. People I know cannot understand why I am a constant listener to AM radio in D
93 Dreadnought : I have never heard the radio show, I'm talking about the TV show which I expect is much more structured. I have heard this accusation, but never a qu
94 UAL747DEN : I seen this with my own eyes on the TV show. Obama does the hail Hitler fist in chest thing while looking at the screen in his studio switch from Oba
95 Dreadnought : Please describe the context. There are historical parallels - which ones was he talking about? Beck's main beef is statism, epitomized in the 20th ce
96 seb146 : Try again. I have seen him many times and I am always left wondering "But what about XYZ?" He always always always has a right-wing slant on history.
97 Dreadnought : Well, history does have a right-wing slant by nature. People throw the term "Capitalism" around as if it is a competing system to others like sociali
98 Flighty : Glenn Beck is amazing! He is such a cutting edge performance artist. You almost believe he is real. I think he is a comedic genius. Of the very darke
99 Flighty : It depends, I never thought of "liberty" as anything other than an abstract, new concept devised in the late 1700s, pretty late in human history. It'
100 luckyone : I would like to see what numbers you are using to back up your first claim because unless you have real numbers I would hazard to say that statement
101 seb146 : Like when there is a small group of people controlling (nearly) everything and a large class of people working their butts off to get nothing? Then,
102 KrisYYZ : Bush passed the Patriot Act which legalized wiretaps and he also spent over a $1 trillion on an illegal war. That was okay. But when a Black democrati
103 BMI727 : Yeah, I would wonder why the liberals who are so concerned with helping people wouldn't support a war to expel an evil dictator who abused his people
104 KrisYYZ : I agree, labeling people is dumb and counterproductive. But if Bush invaded Iraq because of an "evil dictator", then he should have invaded North Kor
105 Post contains images Dreadnought : Well of course! A lefty cannot say "Here is why you are wrong" and still remain within the realms of logic and reason Seriously, I have heard both si
106 474218 : Having met Glenn twice, I found in very down to earth, open and real. I though "liberals were anti-violence"? More like mal-adjusted, a liberial can
107 Dreadnought : I don't personally know any liberals who are willing to debate quietly about politics. Everyone I know quickly gets really heated up quick, and resor
108 seb146 : Oh, geez.... I have been asking this same question over and over and over again with no response: Why was spending trillions of dollars in foreign na
109 Dreadnought : Neither one is OK. I would say that the war is better because at least one day we can stop spending the money. Entitlements is money down the drain,
110 cws818 : Beyond both breathing air?
111 Post contains images DocLightning : OMG we agree on TWO things in one post! If both your parents are Mexican and here illegally, you are... Mexican! Giving children of illegals citizens
112 Dreadnought : Unfortunately, that IS in the Constitution, and it needs to be amended.
113 seb146 : How can the United States government stop speding money on war when they already built the largest base ever in Iraq? How can the United States ever
114 mt99 : What!. Spending billions on dollars on Iraq is often justified by some as "being in the constitution" - door shut, no discussion alllowed!! So what i
115 Post contains images MoltenRock : LOL! Exactly. Look at this pathetic chart.... the main cost to the govt every year to the tune of almost $2 TRILLION is Social Security, Medicare, an
116 BMI727 : Well, we could get the oil, but apparently that would make us bad people. Same thing we get in return for liberating the Iraqis from an evil dictator
117 iairallie : Ding! You are being deliberately obtuse. It's not about a set percentage of taxes. The precise number isn't important . It's about everyone paying th
118 MoltenRock : Given your anti-spending stance I'm sure you'll agree that all entitlement spending needs to be slashed / gutted, which also includes every nickel of
119 lowrider : Given that easily available student aid has helped artificially inflate the cost of post secondary education, this might not be a bad thing. It has w
120 BMI727 : First, I never said I was against all spending, just spending that is unlikely to end up in my pocket. Student aid and defense spending is great. Not
121 MoltenRock : Obama has just removed any impediments that cause unnecessary hardship on oil companies regarding drilling on the Federal level earlier in the month.
122 lowrider : You can't partially deregulate an industry or system like this and expect it to succeed. It is like giving someone 1 oar and telling them to rown in
123 seb146 : So, after dumping hundreds of billions of dollars (and not one breath of protest from the right) what exactly did we get? That would be......? Car bo
124 MoltenRock : Thank you for proving my point. As I have said repeatedly on this forum, people against spending and whining about taxes are only interested in cutti
125 Post contains images BMI727 : That works on both sides of the aisle by the way, before anyone comes and says otherwise. Plus, is it any surprise that in 200+ years people have lea
126 Post contains images Dreadnought : From ignoring to thinly veiled contempt down to idiotic accusations, the left has done its best to show how it looks down on those unenlightened enou
127 MoltenRock : Because the right was soooo worked up when Cheney said, "deficits don't matter". They only matter to the right when they aren't being run up by Repub
128 Dreadnought : Did you flunk math or did you not get the difference between deficits of a few hundred billion (bad enough, and yes, plenty of people bitched) and 1-
129 AGM100 : Wrong .... its the great society democrats who promised it too them ... but nice try. Your blaming them for wanting the goodies that the liberals ( D
130 Post contains images EA772LR : And more and more spending. Somehow the Liberals can forgive Obama's catastrophic spending spree (borrowed mind you) because he inherited a bad econo
131 Dreadnought : That's what I can't get my head around. Somebody overspends by $10, and since there were no horrible consequences, that justifies you overspending by
132 Yellowstone : Which is why socialist countries such as Sweden are such epic failures. Oh, wait, they're not... Sorry, I reject your false dichotomy. What liberals
133 Post contains images EA772LR : Then move to Sweden!! For Pete's freakin' sakes! This is a tried and true liberal sound byte. When in doubt, look at Europe... Next stimulus package
134 Post contains images Yellowstone : Nice to see that you agree it's true. Seriously, though, you claimed that liberalism is not a workable political philosophy. Many European countries
135 Post contains images AGM100 : Get it then ... go get it. Its out their brother ..its everywhere and it is yours . The world is yours .... go get it. Invent ... invest take risks a
136 PPVRA : It's failing, and has been failing. Sweden's economy has been crap for 40 years. The soviet union lasted almost 100 years, democratic socialism will
137 EA772LR : No you haven't. Why are the most liberal states in some of the worst financial shape? Could it have anything to do with the amount of entitlements? H
138 MoltenRock : Nice lie but try again. On the day Bush walked out of the White House the deficit for 2009 was $1.3 trillion and a horrendous economy due to Republic
139 Dreadnought : The deficits authorized after January 2007 do not count, because Budgets are authorized by congress, and congress was firmly in Democratic hands as o
140 Post contains images PPVRA : Because this is trickle down. . . Right?
141 Post contains images EA772LR : *Gasp* Don't say this too loud Dreadnought! Don't want to debate with facts. I'm still waiting for all the Bush-bashers to provide evidence that Bush
142 Post contains images AGM100 : Right... thats our biggest fear. Being compared to a country of 10 million people as a example of what we should be? . We have 10 cities larger in po
143 MoltenRock : LOL! And you have the gall to exclude the President's own budget he submits to Congress (which was in deficit). LOL! Drink the kool aid much?
144 Dreadnought : Who's responsible, the child who asks for money, or the parent who holds the purse? Because that is the idea of the House of Representatives controll
145 FlyPNS1 : If that was true, why do conservatives attack people when they want pay raises or better benefits? Why do they attack programs like mass transit that
146 Dreadnought : Spoken like someone who has no clue what he's talking about. The greater good does not necessarily mean confiscating from some to give to the rest. N
147 seb146 : And the "fiscal conservatives" in the majority did what exactly to stop it? Reading your post, it sounds like the blame lies squarely with Clinton. A
148 einsteinboricua : Better get my flame suit on *zips* Can someone please explain to me where the Tea Party movement came from and what are they looking for? All I see is
149 Dreadnought : They did not have the required majorities. Once again, how dare you say that the deficits under Obama are no worse than those under Bush? It's mental
150 einsteinboricua : Once again, the mentality that Obama is no different than Bush. If Bush had let the banks collapse, then chaos would be ensued. Then Obama actually s
151 Dreadnought : That's the oft-described doomsday scenario. Would there have been chaos? Yes. But why is that a bad thing? Chaos can shake out the deadwood. Banks th
152 Aaron747 : You know, after everything the country went through following Lehman, I just can't understand why people can't get the above through their heads. The
153 Post contains links and images PPVRA : Here's something to add some fun to the topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
154 seb146 : Wow. I, mean.... wow... All this time the health care reform debate was going on. The mantra at the end was "they (Dems) don't have the votes!" But,
155 MoltenRock : Only people who do not understand Keynesian economic theory and Glenn Beck watchers trot this falsehood out repeatedly. Please name a period of time
156 Flighty : I think people understand it, they just don't see a reason to believe it. The Reagan admin used blatantly non-Keynes and about an 18 year boom happen
157 AGM100 : GM ? Come to mind ? Most legacy air cariers who lose money every year ? Workers , once united and able to weild power will never get enough ,They wil
158 Post contains links Dreadnought : One word. Reconciliation. Only the Dems would have the balls to use it on a non-budgetary item like they did. How many times do we have to repeat aga
159 MoltenRock : Are you kidding me? The economy, and Reagan along with Fed Chairman Paul Volker carried out textbook Keynesianism.
160 BMI727 : Saddam was neither strongly secular nor strongly religious. He want about to hand power to clerics, but did add allahu ackbar to his flag and started
161 FlyPNS1 : When have I given Clinton credit for a balanced budget? All technically true, but reality is quite different. You ignore the psychological side of th
162 PPVRA : Is this a serious question? You do know that Keynesian theory is less than 100 years old, right? How about every single economic slip before the Grea
163 Post contains links Dreadnought : Maybe not you personally, but it is a regular occurrence here that people do so. I understand that, but when the dust settles, you'd see that the mar
164 AGM100 : Like everything .... thier is a balance that can be achieved but in most cases is not. Again this is a ideological struggle between left and right an
165 seb146 : I never said he wasn't a dictator. I said the consititution under him was not based on the Koran. IIRC, people in his cabinet (Tariq Aziz?) were Chri
166 Dreadnought : You said Iraq was a democracy. Just admit you made a mistake and lets go on to other subjects. You're right, they should have. He didn't overspend by
167 BMI727 : Usually in a democracy the inauguration speech does not include condemning other politicians to death.
168 FlyPNS1 : But that assumes that the GOP would do nothing to change expenditures in the face of a massive economic crisis. That's a pretty big assumption with l
169 AGM100 : Does not matter ... political will is a mere speed bump to the march towards total central economy and control. It realy just slows the process down
170 Dreadnought : I disagree. Historically the government has only gone to 4% deficits (once in the 80s it got to 6%) in times of recession. Continuing the same spendi
171 Post contains images EA772LR : This is a great post. I'll support any politician who won't sacrifice our liberties for comforts. Americans are far too shortsighted for that though.
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