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Is Arizona's New Immigration Bill Racist?  
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2911 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6569 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/20/arizona.immigration/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36652557/ns/us_news-security/

So basically every time a Hispanic person in Arizona is stopped by law enforcement they might be asked to prove their citizenship ?

So what if a person doesn't have papers on them proving their legal residence ? Would they suffer the humiliation of being taken into custody until their residence status can be proven ?


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
391 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6576 times:

I almost vomited watching Ed Schultz and Al Sharpton discuss this. I want Ed to buy a house on the border in AZ and see how long he lasts. This bill needs to be signed and police need to regain control of their border and state. Who gives a rat's ass if it's racial profiling? If you have proof your a citizen your sent on your way if not then you get your ass sent back to Mexico. If Mexico can get their criminals under control we wouldn't have to do this. The Gov better sign this thing.

User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3765 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6554 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
If you have proof your a citizen your sent on your way if not then you get your ass sent back to Mexico

So why not let everybody, regardless of race, subject to this as well? I'm sure there are white people living in Mexico, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that some of them would enter the US illegally?

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineasuflyer05 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2371 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6553 times:

Border enforcement is the responsibility of the federal government, not local municipalities. As an Arizona resident, I agree that we need to do more to stop the flow of illegal immigrants and empower police departments to involve ICE agents when other crimes are believed to have taken place.

It's like having a leaky roof and trying to stop it by throwing a towel on the floor under the drip. It will help pick up some of the water but until you fix your roof there will be no long term change.


User currently onlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1630 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6551 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
I almost vomited watching Ed Schultz and Al Sharpton discuss this. I want Ed to buy a house on the border in AZ and see how long he lasts. This bill needs to be signed and police need to regain control of their border and state. Who gives a rat's ass if it's racial profiling? If you have proof your a citizen your sent on your way if not then you get your ass sent back to Mexico. If Mexico can get their criminals under control we wouldn't have to do this. The Gov better sign this thing.

Absolutely agree with you.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6547 times:

No I don't think so.

First this should not be viewed or made or made as Hispanic issue. Yes obviously majority of illegal aliens in Arizona are Hispanic, but the law would be applicable to any group including other illegal communities such as Asians.

Ultimately, the issue is a greater one. Just like how the police today enforce a host of Federal laws such as guns, drugs and alcohol, or other criminal activity, this is simply just another illegal offense which the police must help enforce.

I am all for comprehensive immigration policy review in the US, however we can't start the debate in my view without strong established enforcement component. Simply put, break a US law, expect consequences.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6542 times:

Quoting Doona (Reply 2):
So why not let everybody, regardless of race, subject to this as well?

Do you have any understanding of what is happening? The people killing are not white. They are Mexican. Mexico has shown us they can't control the drug lords and this lawlessness is spilling into this country. Time to take drastic measures. Sorry if you don't like it but that poor bastard didn't stand much of a chance did he? I take my hat off to AZ and just pray their Gov doesn't cave into the MSNBC scare mongering that it's taking your rights away. Like I said if you are here legally and you get pulled over give your ID to the officer and your fine if not then back you go. I am the product of immigration but my father's father came here LEGALLY.


User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6530 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Mexico has shown us they can't control the drug lords and this lawlessness is spilling into this country.

The most powerful nation on earth has shown us that they cannot control the amount and kinds of substances snorted by their citizens(and those snorters are therefore criminals). How can you fathom that a nation with a weak judicial system such as Mexico can get their criminals under control??

In any case, the US cannot complain that Mexico is a mess because the US pretty much set the borders about 150 years ago and they knew what they were getting into   You didn't think all that land was gonna be so cheap did you ? Everything comes with strings attached.

That said, the police have every right to verify the legal status of every citizen, and if you're there illegally, you can expect to get sent out without any rights, rightfully so I would think ! As long as there is a reasonable time frame for people to prove lawful permanence I don't really see a problem.

Cheers
Ricardo


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6523 times:

Quoting SR117 (Reply 7):
The most powerful nation on earth has shown us that they cannot control the amount and kinds of substances snorted by their citizens(and those snorters are therefore criminals). How can you fathom that a nation with a weak judicial system such as Mexico can get their criminals under control??

Why would we? I am for legalizing it all, still doesn't change the fact your country is run by drug lords and now they want to kill innocent Americans. No buddy, it's time we stopped caving in to the immigration crap. If your in America illegally you should be deported which is why this law came about. Don't try to blame us for your failures.


User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6506 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
This bill needs to be signed and police need to regain control of their border and state. Who gives a rat's ass if it's racial profiling?

Well, I sure do and I'm white.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
If you have proof your a citizen your sent on your way if not then you get your ass sent back to Mexico.

"Let me see your papers."

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
If Mexico can get their criminals under control we wouldn't have to do this. The Gov better sign this thing.

Well, how about we help them do that? It would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper. Also, let's not forget reparations are a major component of Mexico's economy. The harder we make it on Mexicans residing in the United States, the worse their economy will become.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 9):
Well, I sure do and I'm white.

I take it you don't live to close to the border do you?

Quoting aa757first (Reply 9):
"Let me see your papers."

Nice propaganda, unlike Nazi Germany we aren't going to put them in camps, just send them back if they don't belong here.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 9):
Well, how about we help them do that? It would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper. Also, let's not forget reparations are a major component of Mexico's economy. The harder we make it on Mexicans residing in the United States, the worse their economy will become.

What are you tallking about? If they are legal residents we aren't doing anything to them it's the ones who jump the fence. Are you saying we should just let them all in here just because their country is going to hell?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 9):
The harder we make it on Mexicans residing in the United States, the worse their economy will become.

Question ----- why should we condone, look the other way, or help those that are illegally in the country?

I have zero problem with immigration, matter of fact its something we should encourage, however as my family did when it came to the US many decades ago this needs to be done in a measured and legal way.

Even as a part foreigner myself, I shake my head at the existing large apathy and opposition at enforcing one of the most basic national laws.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6488 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
I take it you don't live to close to the border do you?

No, but I do spend half of my time in the Bay Area. Also, rights don't depend on geography.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Are you saying we should just let them all in here just because their country is going to hell?

I personally believe that if a person is not a security risk and intends to do honest work in the United States, they should be allowed in and the market should do its thing.


User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6490 times:

Quote:
Well, how about we help them do that? It would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper. Also, let's not forget reparations are a major component of Mexico's economy. The harder we make it on Mexicans residing in the United States, the worse their economy will become.

No.

Mexico's economy has been absolutely drained because the people who would normally work in the fields to produce fruits and vegetables have (mostly) illegally gone to Los Ustados Unidos. Instead of attacking the systemic problems of abuse, poor wages, and unfair labor, Mexico's government has done well to dump their poor and uneducated on the US. Why wouldn't they though? If you want to compare a government, Mexico's government is about as corrupt and drug-addled as South Africa. There is drug money heading to be had.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6479 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
So basically every time a Hispanic person in Arizona is stopped by law enforcement they might be asked to prove their citizenship ?

Living in a country with a very significant ethnic minority population - No, not really. Not all of them are legal so it's not surprising Mr. State F. Trooper wants some proof every now and then. There's bound to be some smartass thinking he can blend in as a legal alien.

It would be racist if they passed a bill that said no non-white people were allowed to enter the State of Arizona, which is not what they are doing, that would be worse than the 60's in the Deep South during segregation. Having been to Arizona myself, I know the amount of Hispanics that live there (legal and illegal) so I think what they are doing is a good thing if it's executed properly and not by cops mad with power.

But, who knows. I'm only a visitor to the US - I don't live there.


User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
No buddy, it's time we stopped caving in to the immigration crap. If your in America illegally you should be deported which is why this law came about. Don't try to blame us for your failures.

I'm completely in agreement, if you're there illegally, you get the boot, no amnesty, no nothing. That much I am completely in agreement.

However, when it comes to Mexico-bashing and nagging:

If our country is run by drug lords its because you so clearly mentioned that you don't care to control consumption in your country. They are merely being capitalist and entrepreneurial by supplying your demand with a never ending supply. Its a two faced problem, those drug lords exist because your country demands all those mind altering drugs. It's a never ending finger pointing game and both countries have to own up to their share of the blame

This is a serious problem, and thankfully, regardless of the opinion of crazies in either of the political spectrum in both of our countries who encourage non cooperation and unilateralism, strategists and people with brains that see all sides of the problem realize that combating the monster takes unified action by all countries affected.

We may be a failure, but the US knew we were a failure way back before 1840, this wasn't a relationship based on lies   You gotta live with the neighbors you chose.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
First this should not be viewed or made or made as Hispanic issue.

I agree. But when people are feeling guilty about something illegal they are doing, their mind races as they can conceive of ways to distract them. Clever, yes? Suddenly a cop is a racist for investigating the possibility that a person is not even legally in the country. But, the cops exist for a reason. They are supposed to control illegal activity.

Since I am a legal resident in the USA, I feel perfectly OK confirming that if the police wish to ask me about it. In fact I welcome the question.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19417 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6410 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
If you have proof your a citizen your sent on your way if not then you get your ass sent back to Mexico.

Wait, a Conservative arguing that we should all have to carry "Citizen ID Cards" at all times? When you get approached by a cop and asked to prove your citizenship, will you? With what? Driver's license is not proof of citizenship.

A more sensible solution needs to be taken at the Federal level.

Step 1) Declare amnesty. All illegal immigrants in this country are eligible for citizenship.
2) Any further illegal immigrants after that date will be sent back.
3) An American citizen is a child born either to one or two U.S. Citizens or born to at least one legally present alien here on a visa other than "tourist." You don't get to be a citizen because your mom sneaked across the border and walked into an Arizona ED to give birth. That makes you a Mexican and you go back.
4) Institute an indentured servitude system. Workers may come for 5-year stints during which their sponsor will see to their pay, housing, and health care. During that time they will not have children, they will not require government assistance, and they will not commit any crimes, and they will gain a working knowledge of the English language. If they violate a term of that agreement, they go back. If they make it 5 years, they may have a green card (or at least working visa) if they like.

There is a use for a carrot and a stick. We *want* hardworking Mexican families here. What we don't wait is free-loaders.


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6405 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 14):
I'm only a visitor to the US - I don't live there.

Same with me, but does this mean I have to carry my passport around in case I am stopped by the police asking for my identification? I don't usually carry my passport around, but this may change...


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6398 times:

Quoting SR117 (Reply 7):
That said, the police have every right to verify the legal status of every citizen

Only if there is a cause for suspicion.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Wait, a Conservative arguing that we should all have to carry "Citizen ID Cards" at all times? When you get approached by a cop and asked to prove your citizenship, will you? With what? Driver's license is not proof of citizenship.

Yeah, that got me scratching my head too. Sounds a lot like "tagging" a portion of the population.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently onlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1630 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6371 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Step 1) Declare amnesty. All illegal immigrants in this country are eligible for citizenship.

F**k that, I had to wait 6 years and did it legally.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13518 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6362 times:
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Quoting aa757first (Reply 9):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
This bill needs to be signed and police need to regain control of their border and state. Who gives a rat's ass if it's racial profiling?

Well, I sure do and I'm white.

I'm 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Puerto Rican, so believe me, living in Arizona I can be (and have been) mistaken for someone of Mexican descent.

And I don't care if it appears to be racial profiling. I'll gladly answer a LEOs questions regarding my citizenship if he or she should ask.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 9):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
If you have proof your a citizen your sent on your way if not then you get your ass sent back to Mexico.

"Let me see your papers."

  

Sorry, but that's not quite how it would go. I have many friends in law enforcement here - one is even an ICE agent - and they're all in agreement that they wouldn't be stopping people just based on their appearance. It would be a number of 'reasonable suspicion' factors, such as those who don't speak or understand English AND also lack car insurance when being stopped for a traffic violation, etc.

It's not going to be some Gestapo-like "PAPERS! PAPERS PLEASE!" police state like some of the pro-illegal folks like to paint...   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Step 1) Declare amnesty. All illegal immigrants in this country are eligible for citizenship.

  

Horrible idea. All this would do is encourage another huge influx of illegal immigrants drawn by the prospect of amnesty, as occurred in 1986.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
2) Any further illegal immigrants after that date will be sent back.

Oh yeah? How's that workin' out for us so far? Again, there's no point in declaring amnesty for all here as of X date, as it will encourage more to come illegally - not to mention making the U.S. look like they can't or aren't willing to enforce their own laws.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
3) An American citizen is a child born either to one or two U.S. Citizens or born to at least one legally present alien here on a visa other than "tourist." You don't get to be a citizen because your mom sneaked across the border and walked into an Arizona ED to give birth. That makes you a Mexican and you go back

This I agree with. The "anchor baby" issue is a very real one. Wouldn't this require a Constitutional amendment, though? If so, look for the typical pro-illegal crowd to label such an amendment as "racist."   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
We *want* hardworking Mexican families here.

I agree wholeheartedly - provided they come here legally.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6320 times:

For too many years, the Federal enforcement of immigration laws, especially as to Mexico, were poorly enforced. Too many wanted cheap labor, workers who could be virturally enslaved at low wages doing dangerous and backbreaking work for long hours, working under the fear of being turned over to Immigation authorities. With the recent declines in the economy in the USA, the costs to governments and taxpayers for justice, education, social and medical services of illegals here and the many economic and social problems in Mexico (including the terrible rise of USA drug demand terrorism), has caused a huge demand those here illegally be rounded up and sent back.

The citizens of Arizona and politicans looking for votes have turned to creating laws that possibly violate the USA Constitution and maybe even international agreements as to human rights. 2 years ago, Arizona put in laws to go after companies who hire illegals, including the termination of business licenses. Problem is that enforcement of those laws is weak and only a few companies have seen enforcement.

These new laws can also cause a huge jam up of the justice system, jails, potential violent conflicts and may not help the situation at all. There can be further problems as those here illegally will not report crimes against them or witnesses to crimes or in need of social services (like child protection) out of fear of being deported. We also all know that far too often in the past if you expand and encourage what local police can do, they will run with it. We have also seen the the problems of DWB 'Driving While Black' as police officers would target darker skinned people looking for that big drug or crime bust to help them get promotions or cash bonues for themselves, ignoring white drivers with legitment cause to pull over (in a car) or otherwise investigate.

I expect these new laws, unless vetoded by the Governor, if they become law will be promptly challanged in Federal Courts all the way up to the US Supreme Court and declared Unconstitutional as like laws have been in the past as infringing Federal laws and jurisdictions.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13518 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6293 times:
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Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 22):
The citizens of Arizona and politicans looking for votes have turned to creating laws that possibly violate... ...international agreements as to human rights.

Oh spare me. What human rights are being violated by deporting people who are in the U.S. illegally?

None.

That's right, none.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

In 2007 , My Ex sister in law ( German Expat) was trafic stopped and found to be here illegally. After 6 Years of legal fighting and hiding from deportation she finanly got it fixed and recieved citezenship (somehow).

So the answer is ,no it is not racists at all , but we are prepareing for the violent backlash that will beset our border soon. Get ready this is going to be wild , if Brewer signs it we are in for a real ride I am afraid.

It is the time to have this issue front and center .... a bold move was needed to get the debate going once and for all. If the republicans lose the politcal battle on it then we just go to open borders and free access for all.

The republicans have a tremendous fight on thier hands ..the federal administration in power now has already aligned the justice department against our law enforecment here in AZ. Our law enforcement here is surrounded ... enemies in Washington , and a state with powerful hispanic lobbyist who promote no enforcement and franky open borders.

Sadly , a good many americans support the illegals in this fight. A good many Americans see the US as illigitement and our borders as symbols of past oppression and unfairness.... they are now running washington.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
25 Elite : Huh? was this an ongoing battle before the stop?
26 Aaron747 : No freaking way. I've just finished paying $850 in fees and going through all of the USCIS hoops so that my wife may accompany me and our two childre
27 AGM100 : Nope she over stay her Visa and just melted into society ..... basicaly. She was a illegal alien ... and was caught. I ended up paying as I remember
28 Post contains images TransIsland : Even if I get banned for this, but that's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time. Are you suggesting that six million Jews entered Nazi
29 AGM100 : Well this is the arguement .... but I doubt anyone can give a justification for it other than ... a vauge generality of racism and human rights viola
30 Post contains images AirframeAS : How is this any different from being pulled over by a cop on a traffic violation or every time the cops are summoned? Every time I have dealt with co
31 Post contains images PPVRA : It's not, it's just as bad. Your papers, please. . .
32 Derico : It's a very Hammurabian doctrine, but the Americans have the right to pursue it. If you are illegal it is a choice you made. I feel really bad for the
33 Aaron747 : If your friend is capable of doing well, why does he make the choice to continue living as an illegal resident? What purpose does that serve other th
34 Post contains images MaverickM11 : But it will be, exclusively. Because there is a market for drugs (ie the US), drug dealers have been able to pay $200K+ for even low level drug traff
35 captaink : Hmm, I have been living in Mexico for about 4 years, and I honestly, I have a hard time figuring out what the 'Mexican' race is. So in the population
36 Post contains images futurepilot16 : Stop being Naive. I support anti illegal immigration, but you gotta ask yourself, if we continue to do this, where does the racial profiling end? If
37 Elite : Of course, this is not the official policy adopted by the state of Arizona or the United States; they are targeting "illegal immigrants" and "day lab
38 Post contains images D L X : I now know all I ever will need to know about you. And nearly all the Mexicans living in Arizona are not illegal. Remember the National ID card debat
39 captaink : I agree, the problem needs to be cut at the bud, the borders need to better protected. We normal citizens think Mexicans look one way. I know I did b
40 Elite : Is there a better plan? Many people say we are giving up liberty for the name of security... but tell me, where is the job security when illegals tak
41 LAXintl : Proof of proper immigration status is already legally required by authorized aliens. If you are on a green card, on temporary visas, you are required
42 PPVRA : I was lucky with my Visa process (probably because of my background) but in general I hear it is a costly, endless legal nightmare. I'm sure a lot of
43 mah4546 : I have no problem with this law. An excellent idea and I hope other states follow. And on a sidetrack, the U.S. should take steps to legalize cocaine
44 Post contains images NIKV69 : Ok then go to Iran or North Korea and jump the border. You will do fine. How do you know they are not a risk if they just jump the fence? I guess tha
45 Elite : Well, that's the process required by the law, so they must do it. The excuse "its too costly and takes too much time" just doesn't cut it here. Eh, E
46 ajd1992 : I don't know - I mean I'm a young white guy with brown hair and brown eyes and I'm not tanned by any stretch of the imagination. I don't look Hispani
47 Post contains links aa757first : http://acluaz.org/ACLU-AZ%20Section%...20of%20SB1070updated%204-14-10.pdf Gives police officers authority to conduct warrantless arrests of persons fo
48 captaink : How can it be told that you aren't American? There are American's that fit your description, the difference being only after chatting I suppose. The
49 Post contains images Fly2HMO : They LOOK Mexican (to the untrained eye), but the vast majority of them are not. When those so-called "Mexicans" get deported back to Mexico, guess w
50 captaink : HAHA, true, and that is the point where Mexican becomes a race, characterized by people who have Hispanic features. Sad to see that the rest of the M
51 D L X : So, I'm Mexican American, and don't have a green card. I grew up in California, and hold a California drivers license. But I've never left California
52 Post contains images EA CO AS : Slow down, Turbo. LEOs don't have the time to go around randomly hassling people for simply looking a certain way. Emphasis mine - note how the offic
53 LAXintl : Well personally I have my passport card on me. But anyhow -- If you have a valid California DL, you are more than halfway there to verify your status
54 IMissPiedmont : I live almost right on the border and I need to let people know one thing. It's not as bad here as the radio talk show hosts lead you to believe. Ther
55 PSA53 : It's not discrimination,racial profiling,not certainly Gestepo tactics as the left wing would put it,or anything else of that nature.You're here legal
56 D L X : No, that's NOT the issue. The issue is that to catch the illegal people, you're burdening the legal people, but you're only burdening the legal peopl
57 NIKV69 : Why? Because I want people from Mexico to be here legally? I want Americans in AZ to be safe? Get a grip and stop with the propaganda. It's so weak.
58 mt99 : Every day? Every week? How often until you would feel inconvenienced?
59 AGM100 : Well if you want to win against drug abuse ... that is the extreme that would have to taken. I assume you are talking about US citezens in Mexico ? I
60 Fabo : And you are a naive ignorant.
61 PSA53 : Hmmm...so,let's forget all about all criminal infractions? The Mayor of LA gave his state of city speech yesterday.When a democrat announces major cu
62 Post contains images D L X : No, because you're willing to burden all people of Mexican ethnicity to round up the ones that are illegal. Sounds like someone that thinks it's okay
63 NIKV69 : How do you know how many times? You have a crystal ball? You seem to think that as soon as this law goes into effect every PO is just going to start
64 mt99 : No, do you? What makes you think that you cannot be asked for your papers twice day? AZ is a big state, with lots of people and lots of police office
65 Dreadnought : If all Mexicans were white, I don't think anybody would be complaining about the idea of putting up walls landmines and anything else required to prot
66 Fabo : Maybe it is a time this overly PC world would understand sometimes there is no other way.
67 Fly2HMO : That's why I don't like the terms hispanic or latino. They are just too broad and unspecific.
68 aa757first : Let's face it, some will go out of their way to do it. Not all, not most, but some. And this gives them the power to do it. Why is this a left wing i
69 D L X : No, I believe in the constitution. You're an idiot if you equate arguing that it is unconstitutional and un-American to target a certain ethnic group
70 Post contains images cws818 : Then why didn't you change the channel? Why wouldn't he last long? The large number of people who believe that racial profiling is wrong would give "
71 NIKV69 : Have you been watching the news? CA/Mexico border. I pass through the checkpoints on I-8 often and you don't think they profile? Why aren't you getti
72 Dreadnought : Of course it would (and Canadians and anyone else here without permission). Who else would it be targetting? I don't get your point. So if I pass a l
73 Flighty : Great, there should be no problem then. I agree. Also the prominent organization La Raza, which means "The Race" in Spanish. Gee, I wonder what their
74 PSA53 : In some cases,but,next entry..... Bingo! Health and benefit packages which save businesses millions, which in turn....next entry Bingo,part two! That
75 Post contains images TheCol : Yeah, because you have to prove that you can legally drive a vehicle, have it insured, and don't have any outstanding warrants. That pretty much sums
76 D L X : That's not analogous to this law. To be analogous, your hypothetical would be that LEOs are allowed to stop and question anyone that he thinks has sm
77 Post contains images EA CO AS : Only if they have a valid reason to stop the person in the first place, such as a traffic violation or other offense. Simply "looking illegal" won't
78 Post contains images D L X : No problem other than burdening all Hispanics in Arizona. No, that's the old law. Now "looking illegal" is exactly enough. I'll let you show me how I
79 Flighty : I agree it should be done for all people of all races. It is unfair to do it to hispanic-appearance individuals and not others. So, it should be appl
80 Post contains images Fly2HMO : That's only what it means literally. It is more commonly interpreted as "the people", and that is the context in which this group uses it. That's you
81 Post contains images AGM100 : You should be Tasered first ..then asked for ID ! Kidding The problem is that most legal hispanic Americans have stood against real tough immigration
82 D L X : What the voters support doesn't matter when the Constitution doesn't support it. (At least, that's what I keep hearing about when the local Washingto
83 dxing : If I don't have a drivers license on me when I'm stopped for a traffic infraction, which an officer must be "reasonably" sure I committed. I've got p
84 thegreatRDU : First we should legalize marijuana USA-wide and have the gov regulate the industry and tax the industry thus padding the coffers and taking away some
85 Post contains links stasisLAX : The new version of an FIFTY year old idea - welcome to the new Eisenhower era! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback
86 Post contains links EA CO AS : I'm afraid you're mistaken: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf 11-1051. Cooperation and assistance in enforcement of 15 immigrat
87 DocLightning : Then that's the 40-something dude's problem and responsibility. I'm not talking about green cards. I'm talking about citizens. Believe it or not, the
88 WarRI1 : I do not fear that, I wish I could vote for that type of law in R.I. We have the usual bleeding hearts in our legislature, who kill any attempts to e
89 cws818 : Yes, of course I do. Admittedly, the border is the scene of many problems and frequent crime. However, it is not as though daily massacres are taking
90 Post contains images ajd1992 : Well, the fact I'm currently sat in the UK at home does somewhat give it away. But I know what you mean. I've never been mistaken for an American in
91 D L X : That's not what lawful contact is. Lawful contact could be as little as saying "hi" or "hey, can you show me some ID?" Lawful contact is in contrast
92 Maverick623 : The intent behind it is very much racist and will be overturned by the courts if passed, because most cops in Arizona are not trained to verify legal
93 Post contains images EA CO AS : My friend the Phoenix Police Sergeant begs to differ with you. You just made my point while also contradicting yourself. If unlawful contact = bustin
94 D L X : What does your LEO friend in Arizona say lawful contact is? no I don't believe I have made your point. We are in agreement I think that this law does
95 DocLightning : Um... if there were no minimum wage, there would be de facto slavery.
96 Post contains images EA772LR : Hell no this bill has NOTHING to do with race. Last I checked there weren't blond hair, blue eyed Norwegians crossing the border illegally. It's the l
97 D L X : Oh come now. Where do you get that idea? If the pay is too low, no one will do the job. No one will be forced to work. People would be paid what the
98 thegreatRDU : We should legalize marijuana in all 50 states...
99 D L X : Ahem. So your support for this having nothing to do with race is that blond haired, blue eyed Norwegians (aka white people) aren't crossing the borde
100 newark777 : All this racial BS is just a smokescreen put up by people against immigration controls. The fact is, there is a serious problem of Mexicans and other
101 mt99 : Right,. Forget the Constitution..!
102 newark777 : Oh damn, I forgot that part of the Constitution that said immigrants don't have to carry their immigration documentation with them.
103 D L X : BS. It has nothing to do with being against or for immigration controls. I personally think we should do a much better job of keeping illegals from c
104 Post contains images newark777 : Hey, it worked for health care. Yet the people who say that never have any solutions. Good thing the law doesn't have any ethnic language. Quite fran
105 Flighty : Correct, that's it, in a nutshell. People are trying to use race as a tool to break the law. This logic has been true (all people can ride in the fir
106 captaink : Does the law specify that a keen eye must be kept on white people? So I don't see how comparable your example is...
107 newark777 : And this bill says nothing of Hispanics.
108 Aeroflot001 : Isnt a Drivers Liscence a proper ID which is used to Verify age and Adress here in the US with security features not to Mention a valid ID for passin
109 Dreadnought : I am a conservative who has no problem whatsoever with national ID cards, with copy protection, with your status on the card (Citizen, Alien with Per
110 D L X : Are you going to be an adult and answer the question? Doesn't have to because it is clear whom this law will come down on: Hispanics. You yourself ac
111 AGM100 : Folks who do not live in a immediate border area need to be aware of a few things. - It is not uncommon to see groups of migrants moving thoughout th
112 newark777 : Are any solutions acceptable? I feel this one is. Boom. Done. Then let the courts decide that when this law is eventually sued, if it isn't vetoed. Y
113 Ken777 : Just like people who think it is racist. Lots of pitching green from everyone, which is good indication that it's giong to be a bad bill. Compared to
114 newark777 : Comparing the level of murder and violence of the US mafias and Mexican drug gangs doesn't even compare. Every day there seems to be another mass mur
115 Post contains images EA772LR : Offensive to who? Liberals who merely bring race to the table anytime there's a dispute in political policy? It's crack pipes like the Civil Rights p
116 D L X : BTW, it's quite telling that NIKV has slinked off. Must be nice being a white boy in New York that doesn't have worry about being harrassed because of
117 D L X : To the Constitution that I always hear you harping about. Sounds like you don't care about the Constitution today, do you?
118 Starbuk7 : Ya know, I am a "white boy" as you call it, living in southern California who wouldn't mind one bit if i got asked every day to prove i am a citizen
119 Ken777 : Of course they are - how do you think the Russian Mafia gets staffed. And, personally, I don't care about a national ID card - I have my VA card in m
120 D L X : You say that because you've never actually been subjected to that. I guarantee you that if you had, you'd be against ever being stopped again. I bet
121 EA772LR : When you here the term illegal immigrant, I'm pretty sure most people think of Hispanics. And contrary to what you may think, there's nothing RACIST
122 NIKV69 : Then tell us how we should do it. Slinked off? Hardly, it's just reading your sympthy for illegals and unwillingness to do anything in the face of a
123 DocLightning : Among other things, the Constitution, like the 4th and 5th amendments. Those things that protect you from having to show your ID to a cop without any
124 Post contains images EA772LR : Oh cut the crap D L X. This isn't a witch hunt. This is trying to get a hold of a situation caused by too much inaction on our part and the corruptio
125 D L X : That doesn't mean you can round up Hispanics. 4th Amendment search and seizure. 14th Amendment equal protection. This is not close case. I have ideas
126 NIKV69 : The bill doesn't say LO is going to round up anyone. Can you stop the propaganda? Thanks for not listing any. How? I have asked you to answer this an
127 Dreadnought : If you are pulled aside by a cop for jaywalking or spitting on the sidewalk, he has the right to ask for your ID. What is the difference?
128 Maverick623 : For someone who doesn't live in Arizona, you sure do have an awesome grasp on how a sizable minority of our police officers work. 660,000 illegal imm
129 AirframeAS : I think that is already required that everyone carries ID. The 4th amendment, IIRC, does not apply to Illegal Immigrants. I was speaking specifically
130 Post contains links PSA53 : The new version of an FIFTY year old idea - welcome to the new Eisenhower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback After they have broken the la
131 Maverick623 : Hardly. It does. But how do you know they have broken the law until you ask to see their documents? (Which itself is not a rights violation, but targ
132 D L X : Being pulled aside by a cop for jaywalking or spitting on the sidewalk is good reason. Being pulled aside by a cop because he simply suspects you're
133 Post contains images AirframeAS : So then why does the police attempt to detain someone when that person cannot furnish an ID?? Or is that usually with cops on powertrips? So if I buy
134 Dreadnought : Which is precisely not allowed by the law, as explained in reply 86. They can only approach you in response to you having committed a misdemeanor or
135 NIKV69 : No, you went off topic. Tell us what we need to do. Stop the propaganda and just give a solution. Jesus we went from "rounding up" to now "stopping p
136 PSA53 : If the officers adere's to law,no matter what law is in place to check documentation at the time, That's not the question.Have illegal aliens broken t
137 IMissPiedmont : And you wrote this without tongue in cheek ? I live on the border, or close enough to see it from home with binoculars, and we don't have a bunch of
138 futurepilot16 : And it's those same bullshit reasons that cops are gonna use to weed out people they think looks illegal. Spitting, Jaywalking? Why don't they start
139 TransIsland : Never tried to buy a gun or apply for a passport in the U.S., but guess what: I rent cars there all the time, and occasionally buy booze, too - with
140 Post contains links NIKV69 : Oh I guess the rancher that was recently killed and this doesn't count? http://www.livecitizen.com/2009/04/a...reports-increased-border-violence/ You
141 AirframeAS : It is still an ID regardless. That is my point.
142 Post contains links Maverick623 : Failure to ID is not the same as not carrying an ID. If the cop has reason to ID you (you were committing a crime), and you don't have an ID, you ver
143 Dreadnought : The conspiracy theories are starting to get tiresome. If you can think of a better way to stop and reverse the flow of illegal immigrants, please spe
144 Post contains images AirframeAS : Cops always ask for ID 100% of the time, regardless if a crime has been committed or not. Always. That is exactly what Sheriff Joe Arpaio is currentl
145 TransIsland : No, it was not your point. You responded to "proof of legal residency."
146 Post contains images NIKV69 : So it was a traffic stop, what is your point? If she had her passport it could have all been avoided. You really should always have it on your person
147 Post contains images comorin : You mean I'll have to carry my golf clubs MYSELF??? Major bummer... I am watching The Colbert Report right now on this very topic and hope some of you
148 AirframeAS : Yes it was. That is exactly what I was driving at. Don't tell me that it was not my point when you have zero idea what I was driving at. Birth certif
149 Post contains links D L X : I think that's a reason to detain someone who is pulled over. You need to carry your license in order to drive. I think this is in debate though, so
150 D L X : Or they accidentally left their wallet in the car, like I did yesterday. There are legit reasons not to have an ID on your body.
151 futurepilot16 : Here is the thing. There seems to be no way to stop the process, right now. You seem to not realize this pathetic charade of catching them, sending t
152 Dreadnought : Don't tell me we can't do it. The extreme solution is twin barbed wire fences, about 50 yards apart, with landmines in between. That's not what I sug
153 AGM100 : Constitution ? We want to have a constitutional arguement about upholding our immigration laws ? I described a situation above where as a citezen I w
154 Post contains images AirframeAS : Really? My passport application required a government issued ID such as a State issued Driver License WITH the birth certificate. Fact. It is written
155 D L X : A driver's license is a secondary form of proof. By itself it is not acceptable as proof that you are a citizen. That is also stated on that link.
156 AirframeAS : I don't think you and I are looking at the same document. The DL is required, period.
157 DocLightning : A pity. I hear dead people make excellent lawn fertilizer if you grind them up and till them in with the soil... Why are you all looking at me like t
158 Maverick623 : This is true; however, absent reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed (or if you witnessed a crime), you can basically tell the cop to shove
159 Dreadnought : What, put 12-20 million people in prison? Not an option. Make it practically impossible to cross the border outside of the border posts first. If we
160 Post contains images D L X : But it says right there that a driver's license is not evidence of citizenship. It's evidence of where you live. I absolutely agree with you! That's
161 TransIsland : So, how does a child obtain a passport? Or my American colleague who lives here, and has a passport to travel back and forth, but has never driven a
162 DocLightning : Because you have to figure out who they are first. And in the process you'd better not bother a U.S. citizen. So unless you can somehow tell from a d
163 Post contains images Maverick623 : Please quote me where I even suggested such a ludicrous idea No amnesty. If you want to become legal, go back to wherever you came from first and app
164 D L X : I think you need to find a better term for this.
165 Post contains images IMissPiedmont : I would have but the sheriffs deputies got to the body first. Besides, he probably had so much crack in his blood stream the plants would have died.
166 PSA53 : Agreed.Take away the economic reason to come.Problem solved.The policies that our wonderful politicians put in place need to be removed.To easy! Will
167 Dreadnought : Agreed. (Constitutional amendment would be required) Indentured servitude has a certain history in this country and will be as disliked nearly as muc
168 newark777 : It is. I didn't say I was more bothered by it because they are Latinos, I said I was more bothered by it due to the large volume of illegal immigrant
169 futurepilot16 : I'll bet my left nut that this bill won't do anything at all, just the same as the other legislations to stop illegal immigration. I Think people hav
170 NIKV69 : Check the thread title, the bill is very legal, the OP asked if the law is racist. Which it is not. You attempted to make the topic about it being le
171 cws818 : Immigration is a federal power. A state cannot override federal immigration policy or enforcement. The thread title says nothing whatsoever about whe
172 EA CO AS : I appreciate your pointing out that I've not had a chance to speak with him more in-depth about this. I'm expecting a call tonight (we work the same
173 Maverick623 : I'd be very interested to hear any specific cases you may divulge... All of them are thinking about the best way to handle a situation so that they c
174 DocLightning : It would require a modification to #14.
175 EA CO AS : Okay, per my friend, who is a 10 year Sergeant with the Phoenix Police Department: "At a department briefing on the new law, we have been instructed
176 LAXintl : There are lots of Federal laws that local jurisdictions enforce --- Drug laws, fire arm laws, highway and road safety laws, bank robbery, etc. Its ab
177 D L X : First off, if that's your definition of off topic, you've been just as off topic as anyone else here. Second, the comment you're avoiding answering (
178 AGM100 : Now why would democrat politicians here in Tucson be calling for boycots of our state in order to protect illegal alliens ..... could it be protecting
179 newark777 : Just a bunch of instances of people walking down the street late and being stopped and asked for our ID's. It's easier just to comply than to make a
180 mt99 : So you are wiling to get your rights trampled on because its easier?
181 newark777 : Although it's easy to say that you should stand up for your rights, when it actually happens, you just have to think of the cause and effect of what
182 mt99 : Thats a deeper question isn't it? Sure, but again.. what if you happen to be asked for ID several times a day?
183 Elite : Here in Hong Kong, the police can stop and ask anyone for their Hong Kong Identification Card, which all citizens over the age of 18 are required to
184 Post contains images mt99 : That's a difference that makes Hong Kong "Hong Kong" and the USA the "USA". I guess Newark777 would rather have his name be ChekLapKok777 PS. I do no
185 newark777 : Is that what you think is going to happen?
186 mt99 : Can you see that NOT happening? What prevents someone being stopped at 9AM in one side of town, and again at 3PM in the other?
187 newark777 : Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see the police randomly stopping Hispanics all over the place checking for ID's. Police agencies, especially in lar
188 StuckInCA : Tourism is huge business for Mexico (something like $12 billion). Drugs are huge business in Mexico (estimated at over $50 billion). So, if Mexico st
189 mt99 : So,, whats the point then? If they are not going to have time do it? But ineffective - as you say that they might just not have the time
190 newark777 : It'll surely get someone reelected when the next election rolls around.
191 mt99 : So its all for political theater? Nice
192 newark777 : I know nothing of Arizona politics, so it was just a cynical guess of mine, but it sure wouldn't surprise me.
193 NIKV69 : Well a trained officer could pose a number of questions such as "are you a citizen" and seeing what kind of reaction he or she gets. Don't try to inf
194 AGM100 : I heard the arguemnt used that Az Driver Licenses are not proof of citizenship. They should be .... thanks to libs fighting "discrimination" the law w
195 newark777 : You don't have to show any form of ID to vote in NJ.
196 Flighty : Right. This is about, once police identify a person who's visiting the USA illegally, being able to do something about it. If they can't do anything
197 EA CO AS : In the example he provided of a domestic violence call, he made it clear that it would be the alleged victimizer - not the victim - who the LEOs migh
198 Post contains links AGM100 : It was a hell of a battle to get the ID law put back into effect here ... the same groups fighting against that... are now rallied in opposition to t
199 NIKV69 : Gov will hold a presser at 1630EST. Let's hope she doesn't cave into the propaganda.
200 PSA53 : Or some backroom politics by the democrats or even POTUS?
201 Post contains images fxramper : I love how Sen. McCain is back-peddling on immigration (among 8-10 other platforms) cause he's about to get his ass handed to him in upcoming primary
202 mt99 : Or worse yet. The Constitution...
203 Post contains images PSA53 : Or even worse, still.Abort any knowledge of lawbreaking,in the first place.Again
204 mt99 : Its not? ID is different. ID is a drivers license. Have you been asked for your birth certificate?
205 mt99 : I guess the Constitution has different value to some people some days..
206 PSA53 : And some others believe values of laws are just "unwritten policies" to go around and forget about it all together.it doesn't seem to count.Interesti
207 mt99 : So i guess we are all on board now for federally mandated insurance. Awsome
208 EA CO AS : As I've pointed out, the law doesn't pemit racial profiling and has codified under what circumstances a LEO may inquire about the legal status of som
209 NIKV69 : You continue to just ignore the fact that the southern part of AZ is in a bad way now. They are being besieged with illegals some of which are drug c
210 Post contains images PSA53 : Yes.I suppose.Hang on to you're hats!
211 mt99 : So you are willing forgetting about the Constitution for this?
212 NIKV69 : No, I don't buy into the fantasies and crazy scenarios yourself and MSNBC has been propagating. LIke I said when I have to stop at a check point on I
213 mt99 : Born? did you just make that up? You didn't mention that before.. In any case, asking is different than requirement proof of birth. So your answer is
214 Post contains images NIKV69 : Yes I am making it all up You should know your making all these ridiculous scenarios up and yes I have ben asked If I was born in this country at che
215 mt99 : I knew it!
216 NIKV69 : Bill is signed, what a brave women to put the safety of her citizens before the propaganda of MSBNC and the far left. Now maybe AZ can regain some ord
217 mt99 : Was there any doubt that she wouldn't?
218 IMissPiedmont : To quote a fairly famous cartoon character, "Good grief". I read a lot of people nattering on about things they have only heard from talking heads. Th
219 newark777 : With 10% unemployment and teenage unemployment at an historic high, this argument is somehow still used.
220 NIKV69 : Again you miss the point and just throw out baseless propaganda. This bill is not designed to stop immigration. It's designed to catch criminals, dru
221 Post contains links flanker : Well bill is now signed. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...r-signs-controversial-immigration/ "The sweeping measure will make it a crime under st
222 UAL747 : No, she has a point. Illegal immigrants don't have the leverage that legal ones do to demand $10 an hour. I don't agree with illegal immigration, but
223 dc-9-10 : Very true, she is in political protection mode right now. Suits challenging the laws Constitutionality will probably be filed Monday. I can also see
224 newark777 : No argument there, US employers knowingly employing illegals are as, if not more, guilty than the illegals crossing the border.
225 LAXintl : And what is wrong with that? Illegals should not be welcome any where in the US. No city or state should tolerate or become a refuge to illegal activ
226 NIKV69 : Well I was listening to latina congresswoman today and it sure seems they are laying the groundwork for amnesty after being angered by the AZ state l
227 Post contains links dc-9-10 : Fair assessment. But I was talking economics in that paragraph. This article says there are 460,000 illegal immigrants in Arizona. That is a big numb
228 DocLightning : Yes. They are. There's that pesky 4th amendment that all those flag-waving Conservatives seem to hate. Right up there with #1 and #5.
229 Post contains images AirframeAS : They have to have a parent declaration to prove the identity with the birth certificate (parents names are on the child's birth certificate) with the
230 NIKV69 : So I should just drive by not stop when they chase me? Then when I climb out of my bullet riddled car quote the 4th ammendment?
231 TransIsland : It doesn't? Then why didn't you answer the next question: How does an adult without a driver's license get a passport? There may not be many people o
232 Ken777 : Well, the AZ governor was on TV trying to explain why it was a good thing to sign the bill. She tried hard, but I just kept thinking that she was ugly
233 Dreadnought : What the hell does a drivers license have to do with having a passport? A drivers license is not proof of citizenship or anything apart from the fact
234 Post contains images AirframeAS : WTH?! Put that card away! It also states that a Driver License is an acceptable form of ID to obtain a U.S. Passport. I'm not. No thanks.
235 flanker : What does her looks have to do with anything? Why the personal attacks? Its like saying Obama looks like cross between dumbo and a monkey just becaus
236 Dreadnought : Try that with the state department and they will send you packing. My wife has a state drivers license but she is not a citizen.
237 newark777 : All liquor stores in PA are government run. The Constitution covers all people in the US, not just citizens. That's mature, can't formulate a proper
238 AirframeAS : Geez... People do not read. One mo' time...... In order to obtain a passport and prove U.S. citizenship, you must provide your birth certificate from
239 TransIsland : Ask AirframeAS, he brought it up in reply #133. You stated in reply #156 that a Driver's License was REQUIRED for a U.S. passport, "PERIOD."
240 Post contains images Flighty : I liked Mr. 777's post and found it informative and well balanced.
241 Maverick623 : Of course, don't say "shove off" exactly. "No thanks, I'm busy, have a nice day" should suffice. I love people that throw that card out there, becaus
242 Post contains images AirframeAS : I wouldn't advise that either. Then you asked about a child obtaining a passport. And I answered your question on that, but you still whip out that "
243 Post contains images Maverick623 : It's a legal right, and you can choose whether you want to stop and chat or keep walking. If the officer wants to make a false arrest.... he'll lose
244 Flighty : When a person has lawful contact (traffic pull-over, suspicious behavior call), then identifying the person is routine. Part of every full identifica
245 TransIsland : As who still have trouble reading, let me spell it out for the third time: And what does an ADULT do, who has never learned how to drive a car? (Whil
246 Post contains images AirframeAS : It may be a legal right, but the consequences would not be much fun as the officer can charge you with disorderly conduct. That is a charge that is v
247 Post contains images Ken777 : You forgot that I said to give AZ a chance to make the law work. The comment about the Gov was put in to provide balance for those strongly against t
248 TransIsland : Since I am not a U.S. citizen, I want YOU to tell me, because YOU stated that a driver's license was required, "PERIOD."
249 AirframeAS : Fair enough. A State issued photo Identification Card would suffice. You know that.
250 WarRI1 : Much to my surprise, she had the balls to sign this much needed law. She is a Republican, and I support this Republican on this issue. The Chamber of
251 Ken777 : My wife is here legally. She became a legal resident in 1969. "Back in the day" there was a requirement to fill in a form from the Post Office once a
252 cws818 : Of course, but local jurisdictions cannot come up with policy that contradicts the federal. This is starting to become ridiculous. You are clearly ob
253 Post contains images WarRI1 : When things are done legally, nobody has a problem, as we know, the special interests are the cause of this unholy mess we have now. No jobs and mill
254 WarRI1 : [quote=cws818,reply=252]Of course being in the country illegally is illegal. No question, now what part of that do the advocates of the illegal immigr
255 LAXintl : But his does not contradict Federal law. Local agencies already have the power and technology (as supplied by ICE) to verify immigration status of th
256 Post contains images Flighty : Oh, do you mean they will have to hire real Americans or legal residents to do those jobs? The apocalypse has come!!
257 NIKV69 : Yea and Ed Schultz says let us have a day of amnesty! Give them citizenship! Who cares if some of them are criminals? Who cares if other legal immigr
258 seb146 : Like the illegals that join our military to gain citizenship? Don't local law enforcement agencies have that power anyway? I knew a guy in Portland w
259 WarRI1 : I sure hope so, anything will be better than the madness we have now. The US Chamber of Commerce is one of the special interests that push the open b
260 newark777 : Gotta milk those filthy rich illegal immigrants.
261 AirframeAS : Has this ever been proven?
262 Maverick623 : The Supreme Court and the Constitution Alright. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore. If you want to ignore the established rules in the Constitution
263 AirframeAS : Ok.....Show me where it says exactly these words verbatim: "Illegal Aliens, regardless that they have broken the law by jumping the fence at the bord
264 NIKV69 : Obama, MSNBC, CNN and every other Dem who needs every vote they can get this November.
265 Post contains images AirframeAS : Since when did the Illegal Immigrants gain the right to vote in elections?? Edit: Rewording.[Edited 2010-04-23 22:31:46]
266 ual777 : Illegals cannot join the military. Only legal immigrants.
267 11Bravo : I suspect your friend did something a bit more serious than commit a traffic offense. He almost certainly was arrested and taken into custody. At tha
268 Yellowstone : You seem to be conflating amnesty with granting citizenship - they are two completely separate things. "Amnesty" merely means that illegal immigrants
269 Post contains links Elite : However, with the US military failing to meet recruitment targets, maybe they will be looking into illegal immigration to solve this problem? Some re
270 cws818 : Once again, not every individual who appears on MSNBC or CNN is a Democrat. Example #1: Joe Scarborough. Move on, already!!!!
271 cws818 : Translation: NIVK69 cannot find any legal source to support the assertion.
272 Maverick623 : I know I said I wouldn't argue with you, but this is why: From the 14th Amendment: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or prope
273 seb146 : There was a swearing in at the White House of people who are serving in the military that were not full citizens when they enlisted. RIght. So, this
274 Dreadnought : There is a difference between someone who is legally in the country but is not a citizen, and an illegal immigrant.
275 AGM100 : THEY CAN NOT PULL YOU OVER BECAUSE YOU ARE A MEXICAN.... OK ... Its not like Mexico ... they pull you over because you are whitey .. got it? We do no
276 mt99 : Not only you - Everyone in the state should. If there is really no racial profiling - John Smith (blonde w blue eyes), is stopped by a cop who "think
277 NIKV69 : LOLOLOL, yea one guy who is on when nobody watches, face it as long as you want to bash Fox for being far right, MSNBC is way far left. Your telling
278 seb146 : And Bush did....? Explain something: Right-wingers don't want the feds to get involved with anything. But, they have to something about illegals cros
279 Dreadnought : If you would look back a few years, there were PLENTY of complaints that Bush was not doing enough. He put the national guard on the border for a whi
280 Ken777 : We do have enough of our own. The worst for Oklahoma? Timmy McVey. Good old white boy. Actually a bad old white boy. But prisons everywhere are too f
281 Elite : This law was passed in response to the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico, as Arizona is a prime location for illegals to pass through into the Un
282 NIKV69 : Bush is long gone buddy you can't use that lame crutch anymore. Obama is in office now, people are dying, and the drug lords are raising the stakes.
283 flyingbronco05 : Is Arizona's New Immigration Bill Racist? "Illegal isn't a race, its a crime..."
284 Post contains images AirframeAS : I'll buy that. I know nothing about the 14th, but I learned something new. I would not bet on it at all. I would not even support that idea if it eve
285 ual777 : When you enlist in the military you have to show you are a citizen/legal resident and you have to show you have a GED or have graduated from high sch
286 Post contains images flanker : This is true, they are more rampant in the big cities. West Coast, East Coast and some Midwest. But if you really want to crack down on Eastern Europ
287 Post contains images EA CO AS : So when you're pulled over for weaving erratically after leaving a bar, spectacularly fail a field sobriety test and are then placed under arrest for
288 NIKV69 : Of course it doesn't. The opposition to this law is simple hatred for the GOP and is a way to get Obama to shelve finance reform and grant amnesty to
289 mt99 : So you agree that it might be unconstitutional? They sure have to. If they don't - it means racial profiling. It only takes one American who values t
290 Post contains links D L X : It's well settled law that "furtive glances" are not enough to generate a reasonable suspicion. I'm not saying what is and isn't possible. I'm trying
291 AirframeAS : Yes and No... I don't know..... I still think Illegals, who cross the border by jumping the fence, should not be protected by any parts of the U.S. C
292 mt99 : Even so. If an American (born here) were to be asked for his documents it would mean that HIS/HER constitutional rights have been violated. As i said
293 Dreadnought : I still don't get this... If you are asked for ID, what's the big deal? Who's running around without ID and a few bucks in their pocket? Unless you a
294 D L X : I don't know what to tell you. I've tried many ways now. If you showed up at the passport agency with only a driver's license, they will ask you for
295 NIKV69 : Do you ever stop making stuff up? Please point out where I said this? I have no hatred against hispanics, just don't want them coming here illegally
296 mt99 : "ID" is different than proof of citizenship or legal status. Assume for a second that you agree with me - and that a "regular" ID does not prove lega
297 AGM100 : Yes.... I do . Unless you just think police are all racist.... go ahead say what you really think. That is what the opponents believe ..they do not t
298 D L X : Reply 1. I think that includes someone who condones racial profiling. No, you want illegals to not be in the country. You should be open to all non-d
299 NIKV69 : Since when is racial profiling going to burden the whole legal hispanic community? It's done all over the world. It's an important tool in catching t
300 Dreadnought : Hence my support for national ID cards. Would you have any issue with those? They would be like passports without the pages, and like passports would
301 AGM100 : Totaly true. When I was a youngster ... I did alot of jobs "americans wont do" my kids cant get em now esepcialy here. Illegals' now do the jobs we u
302 D L X : Um, seriously? I take it back. You're not a bigot. You're just ignorant. Racial profiling by definition burdens everyone that fits the racial profile
303 NIKV69 : Spare us the name calling. It shows how pathetic you really are. Yea I guess EL AL should just not profile anyone. It's better to let their people ge
304 viaggiare : You cannot swim ashore in England, France or even Canada for that matter just because you feel like it. It is illegal. You cannot work in those count
305 Type-Rated : We did that once back in 81 or so. It didn't work. This is what this law is all about. Nope this won't work as it would create "second rate" treatmen
306 NIKV69 : Why should they? If you go by the liberal progessives thinking it's America's fault that they want to come here so they are entitled to come here and
307 D L X : Hah! I love it! You say spare the name calling, and then call me pathetic! All day, NIK. All day. Look, I'm just calling it how I see it. It was a ve
308 stratosphere : I would agree that there are abuses of illegals in regards to pay..That is why this really needs to be attacked from the employer end of it...I say t
309 NIKV69 : It really doesn't except when you create doomsday scenarios that rarely come to pass. It isn't an ignorant comment it just shows you resort to the le
310 Post contains images AirframeAS : Don't know what to tell you either, DLX. I got my passport with exactly these three things: My Colorado Driver License, My birth certificate from the
311 mt99 : Not at all. I think thats a great idea. No National ID, no job, no benefits. However, can you imagine what would happen if Obama were to propose this
312 soon7x7 : If your in this country...legally, and have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, no matter who you are...if your here illegally and yo
313 StuckInCA : See, the problem is that this bill sucks if any law enforcement officer starts hassling any person who looks hispanic. It doesn't have to be all of t
314 NIKV69 : It's sad the Gov of AZ has more balls than our president. Then again she isn't for amnesty is she? I am sure they will be able to and if they hassle
315 mt99 : You are willing to got to prison - for no reason?
316 Maverick623 : I'm getting really fed up with people not paying attention. If you're driving a car, you need to have your license on you. That's a given. When you w
317 Maverick623 : Source? No, you'll just start blurting out the far right hate speech that Mexicans shouldn't have any rights, even if that means violating the rest o
318 AvObserver : Gov. Brewer did this because Arizona citizens are at whit's end. They're tired of migrants trashing their land, eating their crops and often livestock
319 mt99 : Its NOT ID dude. Its proof of status ei. Passport, Green Card or Birth Certificate. Which one of those do you carry everyday?
320 Post contains images Maverick623 : Thank you for speaking for me from the comforts of your home in New Jersey. If being stopped on the sidewalk because you are suspected of committing
321 Dreadnought : Excellent post. You guys are the kind of people that are simply helpless in a crisis. You can't tell us what solution you would have, because you hav
322 NIKV69 : I won't even dignify this with an answer. I bet those 6 Mexican cops that got shot dead on the TX border was also a figment of my imagination. It's p
323 StuckInCA : Uhh. What? I asked you what form of proof of citizenship you'll be carrying around? Answer? And wait! You won't mind if you're detained? Funny that y
324 AvObserver : If asked to do so, I'd carry whatever the law stated. A minor inconvenience in exchange for solving a big problem. Irrelevant because I closely follo
325 seb146 : Like how profiling caught Timonthy McVey or how profiling caught the Christmas Day bomber? Would you pay $5 for a head of lettuce? I actually don't m
326 Elite : Since the law has been passed, I'm curious - what documents do American citizens or legal immigrants or tourists have to bring around?
327 Post contains links NIKV69 : Actually I usually do have my passport with me when I travel outside my home state. In addition to my license. If I was in this situation in southern
328 soon7x7 : What is all the bickering about?...Arizona has decided to act at the state level, laws that already exist in the federal level, but have never been ap
329 Maverick623 : Hahahahahhahahaha. Nice try, dude. Why don't you actually read the thread before making a fool of yourself with the same old rehashed, unoriginal tal
330 Post contains images AirframeAS : I didn't say that. I said I support this one particular bill. Please don't put words in my mouth. I agree 1,000%! Said it better than I could! Try do
331 Maverick623 : I don't mean to be rude, but are you a cop? Do you know any cops? Have you talked to any cops on this specific issue? Have you bothered to read the C
332 TheCommodore : Here in Australia, if a policeman/woman stops you for whatever, you must by law supply your name and address. And I think also that if a policeman/wo
333 Maverick623 : If a cop lawfully stops you because he has reasonable and articulable suspicion that you committed or are about to commit a crime, he or she may perf
334 Dreadnought : Sorry, but "Comprehensive reform" is a code word for "do nothing but sound like you are doing them a big favor so you get the hispanic vote" The firs
335 mt99 : we already agree! National ID Card. Go tell the Tea Partiers that you want an ID Card. Better yet tell them that the Government want them to carry ar
336 Elite : I'm from Hong Kong, where everyone has a national ID card, so I'm already used to the principle of having one. A lot of people say that it invades yo
337 seb146 : So, these people from Central America trying to make a better life for themselves and their families are the national security problem? Not the terro
338 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : Interesting that on Jan Brewer's re-election website under "Where I Stand", she talks about reducing the size of government. It is actually the first
339 Elite : If only it were just people looking for a better life - and even then, it shouldn't be a reason to allow them to be above the law. There are plenty o
340 Dreadnought : Bush presented a proposal for immigration reform in January 2007. He pursued legislation that would grant hardworking immigrants the privilege of bec
341 windy95 : Easy. If The feds prosecuted and followed the laws already on the books then nothing else would be needed. If they did their job of policing the bord
342 AGM100 : We are all going to have to make sacrafices .... that is it. Liberals are going to have to sacrafice entitlement programs and we are all going to hav
343 Post contains images AirframeAS : Maverick, I don't mean to be rude but..... try this and get back to us: Ever heard of Identity Theft?? That card will be bio chipped, RFID type cards
344 windy95 : He does not know about that either. he is from Chicago...
345 Post contains images D L X : AirframeAS, this is what I'm saying! I know those are the things you needed to get a passport. The point is that a drivers license is not proof of ci
346 Dreadnought : How does it encourage ID theft? Passports don't. The idea of a national ID card is to present proof that you are who you say you are. Drivers' licens
347 Post contains images AirframeAS : I wonder why the Norwegian flag for? Ok, then lets put the passport issue to rest now that we both agree on how to obtain one. Yes, that is correct.
348 Dreadnought : I don't understand what your issue is with them but if they are not secure, don't put them there. Mine doesn't, and it's pretty new.
349 AirframeAS : If you walk down the street and some thug has a RFID scanner (expensive to buy, but easy to get) then you get the contents of that RFID chip stolen b
350 Dreadnought : You are missing the point. The problem is not the chip, and your info like SS number and birthdate - it's the fact that it is legal in this company t
351 AirframeAS : .....in which that info would be stored on the ID's chip. Edit add: word added.[Edited 2010-04-25 11:55:35]
352 Dreadnought : Again, so what? You seem more concerned with a symptom than the underlying problem.
353 Post contains images AirframeAS : Oooooo...with that attitude.... That tells me that you are perfectly fine with having your identity stolen and used by some criminal just to screw up
354 D L X : My argument was never about how to get a passport, but rather, if a Driver's license was proof of citizenship. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
355 Post contains images windy95 : Yes they have 100% agree
356 EA CO AS : However, if you don't already have a license from another state, the State of Arizona requires you to submit your Social Security number when applyin
357 Post contains images AirframeAS : Been there, done that, in Arizona.
358 D L X : True, but there are thousands upon thousands of people who are legally in the country that do not have Arizona licenses, or even American licenses at
359 seb146 : Again: We had 8 years of a right-wing president and six of a right-wing Congress which did what about immigration? This: In 8 years, amnesty was prop
360 AGM100 : Try to appease the Hispanic caucus .... thats about it. The Hispanic caucus is never going to support a republican ...ever . So why did the GOP try t
361 Dreadnought : Which is why I support national ID cards, the elimination of easy credit card applications over the mail, etc. The right WAS opposed to it.
362 MoltenRock : If that is the case no Republican will be in office, and the party is dead within 20 years if not 10. Automatically ceding the hispanic vote is a dea
363 Post contains links windy95 : This really makes me laugh...CNN has this on it's front page Hundreds protest immigration law in Arizona Hundreds of people gathered outside Arizona's
364 D L X : You see everyone? This poster has already made the mistake that I've been telling you people were going to make. You can't tell whether someone is le
365 Post contains links MoltenRock : Maybe it was their shoes or dress that gave them away, or at least according to Republican Brian Bilbray. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-BlskNRJ7c
366 seb146 : But they were for it first. They were against their own proposal. How is any party supposed to do anything when right-wingers do this?
367 Post contains images AGM100 : Then so be it. The "GOP" can not support freemarket ideas and freedome from the nanny state and still vote for every entitlement program that sounds
368 cws818 : Has he said that he favors amnesty? I haven't done that. Nobody is suggesting that, either. There is quite a bit of doubt about that, actually. Who,
369 AvObserver : This is quite obscene to me; a likely mostly illegal bunch of people screaming about "their rights" when they skirted our laws to come here. Sure, th
370 D L X : Most of the protesters were students from Arizona colleges. You like Windy and NIKV have missed the point of the argument. The fact that they're requ
371 Ken777 : The changes in this country are significant when it comes to "whites" and "non-whites". The first major step was the civil rights changes that opened
372 EA CO AS : Here we go again, another sweeping, incorrect generalization. C'mon, we've been around and around on this, and you know what you've written above is
373 D L X : Well, I strongly disagree, and a whole lot of Latinos agree with me. We both know that overzealous cops exist and target particular groups of people
374 Yellowstone : I'd bet the actual illegals are too busy, you know, working to show up for a protest like this.
375 Post contains links MoltenRock : I often wonder where these people live that deny the changes going on around them. Have they walked into an elementary school these days where 45% to
376 mt99 : What does not "knowing" have anything to do to with this? Please No! anything but this!!. Its a cheap and easy way to identify people who knowing tha
377 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Now I've heard it all. In my 20 years living south of the border, not ONCE have I heard anybody complain about that land being "stolen".
378 Post contains images AirframeAS : You are telling me what I believe in and what I don't believe in, you don't even know me. And that, ticks me off! Being someone you're not. Okay. Wha
379 mt99 : Its funny that you say: and you follow it with The classic "Do as i say, not as i do"... I think you missed an "L".. Hysterics: The GOPs best friend.
380 Post contains images AirframeAS : Dodging my question. Ok, I see how it is. You can't even answer my question. I am not telling you what you believe in. I am asking you what you belie
381 mt99 : Oh Honey... You dont get it do you? Fine assume illegals don't have any rights. However, the problem is not THEIR rights, Its the rights of citizens
382 Post contains images AirframeAS : I have gotten it all along. You still have not answered my question. I am done with you. You can't even answer one simple "yes or no" question.[Edite
383 mt99 : OK good. So if you have, you see no problem seeing YOUR rights trampled on. Its your prerogative i guess.. Sigh - Hysterics.
384 Post contains links windy95 : New Arizona law forcing hard choices on migrants No you are illegal. No matter what race or gender you are. What a joke. And reuters it is "ILLEGAL AL
385 Post contains images EA772LR : Are you sick??? 12 Americans die because of inaction of our POS government. 12 families' lives a day are wrecked because of people that have no busin
386 AGM100 : Can the Moderators start another thread please ?... this one is getting long. Thanks
387 windy95 : I guess you argued against mandatory Health Insurance and having to present your papers to the IRS for proof?
388 Post contains images Dreadnought : Cool - a 3-pointer!!!
389 mt99 : Nope i did not. I take it that you are against this law on the same grounds? right?
390 StuckInCA : Heh. That article is pretty funny. He should consider going back to Guatemala I think.
391 Post contains links SA7700 : This thread will be locked for further contributions. Any posts made after the threadlock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. There is a c
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