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Twin Towers Again?  
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

Recently the mayor of New York was on a talk radio show motioning about the stalling and slow progress of the New world trade center at ground zero demonstrating a sort of disgust that here we are almost ten years later, and a hole in the ground still exists. My question is why didn't they just break out the original blueprints and rebuild exactly what was destroyed. Enourmous time and expense in development would have been save in addition the reconstruction of identical buildings in the original locations would have had a strong political message. I can't think of one reason why it would not work other than it just makes too much sense...g...any opinions?

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflybaurLAX From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

I halfheartedly agree with you. It would be like when the Vietnamese would rebuild exactly the same thing after we bombed it time and again. I think it would be a powerful message to those who supported the people who brought it down. I know some people would view it as erasing that the event ever happened, but I believe it would be more of an honor than an insult.


Boilerup! Go Purdue!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15457 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5959 times:

Is Ground Zero considered a burial site? If so, that would throw a wrench in the works for rebuilding on the same footprint.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

Well, for one, the investigation took forever, and recovery took longer. It wasn't a controlled demolition and the twin towers weren't the only ones affected. That said, I too believe it's still a huge hole in the ground for being almost 10 years later. Construction on the 950 foot Devon Tower in OKC started this past October and should be finished in 2013.

The building would have to be redesigned, at least from an internal structural standpoint to incorporate the latest technologies to reduce operating costs of the buildings and reduce the environmental impact on surrounding areas. No doubt building regulations have changed quite heavily since the twin towers were constructed, and ALSO, they can't stand up to a 767 sized aircraft hitting them, so that needs to be addressed to.

With all of that, why not just start from scratch, because that's what you are doing anyway if you build two buildings that look the same.

Plus, in a way, the new building is more "inspirational" and will memorialize the victims in a more inspirational way architecturally than the original buildings. At least I'm sure the above was and is the current thinking.

This was published on Jan 30, 2009.



UAL

[Edited 2010-04-28 22:05:44]

[Edited 2010-04-28 22:06:24]

User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Thread starter):
Recently the mayor of New York was on a talk radio show motioning about the stalling and slow progress of the New world trade center at ground zero demonstrating a sort of disgust that here we are almost ten years later, and a hole in the ground still exists. My question is why didn't they just break out the original blueprints and rebuild exactly what was destroyed. Enourmous time and expense in development would have been save in addition the reconstruction of identical buildings in the original locations would have had a strong political message. I can't think of one reason why it would not work other than it just makes too much sense...g...any opinions?

Honestly, I'd like to see that versus the new World Trade Center currently being built. It might just be sad nostalgia, but they really were a New York icon, and NYC is not the same city without them.

Though I think it would be really really eerie working in a carbon copy of a building that was destroyed in the manner of the 9/11 attacks.

Interestingly, in an architectural forum I go to, this topic has been discussed again and again and again. I think the conclusion they reached was that because of the way the WTC was designed, there'd be no feasible way to make it structurally as safe and durable as the new WTC currently being built, and the majority of New Yorkers preferred seeing a new tower put up in its place. That was the conclusion they reached, I don't know if its true or not.

Cheers!
Anthony/Airport

[Edited 2010-04-28 22:23:13]

User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9393 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5903 times:
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Quoting soon7x7 (Thread starter):
I can't think of one reason why it would not work other than it just makes too much sense...g...any opinions?

It would certainly look better than whatever Freedom Tower design is currently on the table.

What happened to classic, square-or-rectangular-or-similar, functional skyscrapers?

Maybe I'm old-fashioned in this regard, but I don't like all the funky, weird new skyscraper designs. Not least because they don't fit in at all with the rest of most city's skylines.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
Plus, in a way, the new building is more "inspirational"

  
BULL!

That looks like cheap, ordinary run of the mill crap that is going up in just about any other major city.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
No doubt building regulations have changed quite heavily since the twin towers were constructed,

How is building multiple cheap glass buildings any better on the environment than building two twin towers?
Given the situation involving 9/11, I think recent regulations should be waived so the original design can be re-build.
Those terrorist will be the victors if they get to permanently alter the New York skyline.

Quoting Airport (Reply 4):
Honestly, I'd like to see that versus the new World Trade Center currently being built. It might just be sad nostalgia, but they really were a New York icon, and NYC is not the same city without them.

  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5809 times:

Rebuild the towers as they were! I don't understand why the most powerful nation on earth can't rebuild 2 buildings...its been almost 10 years! How long does it take? Make a memorial for all the people lost..and build the towers like they were. They were NY icons..it will be awesome to see them again.


אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5807 times:

Because the twin towers were an eyesore, out of date, and not economically feasible to rebuild.

Saying the "terrorist didn't win" rings hollow when a hole in the ground is still there 10 years later.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):

I'm no building engineer but I can assure you that no building will or can sustain the impact of a 550,000lb 767 moving at high altitude cruise speed loaded with Jet A. The fact is, the buildings absorbed the impacts pretty well considering the construction methods used to build them. The burning fuel was the kicker.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):

It took New york three years to build from scratch the 59th street bridge. It fairly recently took them 10 years to repave it!...did I mention unions?..."Fugetaboutit!"

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 8):

An eyesore to who?...excepting the Bin Ladens of course...The terrorists did win...nothing has been the same since that day...One of the greates aspects of those buildings were when I would fly my friends around Manhattan, you would pass the towers closely at 500' or a bit higher and people on the roof tops were looking down at you in a plane waving...I miss seeing those "eyesores", I watched them go up and I watched them come down and it still angers me...Always will...g


User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5648 times:

Never going to happen. An obscene mix of the families of victims, politics, politicans, insurance disputes, disputes with property management (Silverstein), too many jurisdictions (US, NY State, NY City, PANYNJ, NY City Police), obsessive security issues, tacking on hyperexpensive structures and side projects (transit center for example), the problems with tearing down adjacent structures for the larger infrastructure, the complicated infrastructure, the need to keep some local streets open to public vehicle traffic and one of the most emotional events to ever happen in the USA have all been factors with the slow replacement of the WTC site.

User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 10):

Your probably correct...in this climate they couldn't fill them with tenants anyway. Perhaps a permanent Memorial Park instead?...we still need places for the homeless to park themselves...g


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
Rebuild the towers as they were! I don't understand why the most powerful nation on earth can't rebuild 2 buildings...its been almost 10 years! How long does it take? Make a memorial for all the people lost..and build the towers like they were. They were NY icons..it will be awesome to see them again.

I agree, i think they looked brilliant. Commanding and dignified.


User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Is Ground Zero considered a burial site? If so, that would throw a wrench in the works for rebuilding on the same footprint.

They are still finding human remains every once in a while, but the fact is that the WTC site is right in the middle of the downtown NY financial district, and life has to go on.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 9):

It took New york three years to build from scratch the 59th street bridge. It fairly recently took them 10 years to repave it!...did I mention unions?..."Fugetaboutit!"

It's the same reason that Tavern on the Green is still shuttered: disputes with the restaurant union. And not only that, the entire negotiation with them is under a gag order. It's disgusting.



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
BULL!

That looks like cheap, ordinary run of the mill crap that is going up in just about any other major city.

That, I pretty much agree with. I didn't say "I" thought it was more inspirational....but no doubt the entire grounds and buildings will be a memorial in some way. The problem is, the land is worth too much money to really put a true memorial there. At the time of the OKC bombing and shortly after, our downtown was dead. It was just office buildings mainly composed of law offices and government buildings. The land was obviously much cheaper than lower Manhattan. But, there are much prettier designs I would think than what is planned. Unless it shines so bright you can see it from space.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
How is building multiple cheap glass buildings any better on the environment than building two twin towers?
Given the situation involving 9/11, I think recent regulations should be waived so the original design can be re-build.
Those terrorist will be the victors if they get to permanently alter the New York skyline.

Well, for one, the internal structure is going to be different, at least on the freedom tower. The lower 10 floors (maybe less) are not even going to be occupied, but will provide a solid barrier against any ground bomb attacks with reinforced "armor" if you will. The top 150 feet of the building, from what I understand, or did understand, is an atrium. I know that the structure will be beefed up in comparison to the old one.

Also, the old WTC design did not incorporate the latest technologies. Not that you can't build a similar looking building and do that, but in regards to wind, ground movement stability, electrical usage, gas usage, water usage, about everything a vertical city can impose environmentally will be changed in the new building. While I would like to think for "green" reasons, it really has more to do with economic reasons. So in essence, you are going to have to redesign the entire internal structure of the building, might as well redesign the easy part, the glass.

UAL


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 14):
Also, the old WTC design did not incorporate the latest technologies. Not that you can't build a similar looking building and do that, but in regards to wind, ground movement stability, electrical usage, gas usage, water usage, about everything a vertical city can impose environmentally will be changed in the new building. While I would like to think for "green" reasons, it really has more to do with economic reasons. So in essence, you are going to have to redesign the entire internal structure of the building, might as well redesign the easy part, the glass.

You are correct that the old plans could not be used.

But I really like from the psychological stand point - rebuild it externally exactly like they stood before. They might have been knocked down once - but that will not stop us as a nation and a people.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13254 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5465 times:
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Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 8):
the twin towers were an eyesore
HORSEFEATHERS!!!



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 4):
Honestly, I'd like to see that versus the new World Trade Center currently being built. It might just be sad nostalgia, but they really were a New York icon, and NYC is not the same city without them.

Surprisingly, most New Yorkers were not that enamored with the Twin Towers prior to 9/11 - they were architecturally uninspired and too tall relative to the rest of downtown - the plaza at the centre of the WTC site could be uncomfortably cold even on a summer afternoon.

After the attack, most New Yorkers became understandably nostalgic for the Towers (me included) and wanted them back. Polls for years after consistently showed that New Yorkers wanted the Towers rebuilt to look as much like the originals as possible, with updated technology inside, possibly on the opposite side of the site to leave the original "footprints" as the memorial.

The biggest reason we're not getting that is the arrogance of the governor of New York at the time, George Pataki, the PANYNJ board, and the "Lower Manhattan Development Corporation", who decided that the people be damned, we're going to go ahead with what WE want...thus, the "Freedom Tower". PANYNJ is truly impressive in its ability to not listen to the public, and that combined with Pataki's ego (and the unwillinginess of the city-appointed half of the LMDC board to stand up to him and his cronies), and Pataki's desire to have the architect Daniel Libeskind involved (which ed to further delays due to Libeskind's incompetence leading to much of the tower having to be redesigned) gave us the piece of junk and the accompanying, smaller buildings that will eventually grace downtown, destroying property values by dumping unneeded office space into the market (much as the original Twin Towers did.)

Personally, I would have preferred the Twin Towers back, as a gesture of defiance, or failing that just turn the main site into a park, except for Seven World, which has already been rebuilt. Actually, I'd like to see the PANYNJ get out of the real estate business entirely - I've never quite been clear on how they got involved in the original WTC. Actually-actually, I'd like to see the PANYNJ broken up into separate agencies for its different functions - ports, airports, PATH, and tunnels.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
It would certainly look better than whatever Freedom Tower design is currently on the table.

It's not officially called the "Freedom Tower" any more, just One World Trade Center. Most New Yorkers cringed every time they heard the name "Freedom Tower" and the gimmicky 1776 feet tall crap. Now if we could get "Newark Liberty Airport" changed back to just "Newark"...

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
I don't understand why the most powerful nation on earth can't rebuild 2 buildings.

Well, it starts with the complexity of the site itself - in all fairness, it's a difficult piece of ground to work with, involving the "bathtub" that holds out the Hudson River, the PATH station and tunnels, subway tunnels on the east side, and just being generally a cramped space.

Add to that the problems of deconstructing 130 Liberty St.* - a combination of asbestos on site and a long, drawn out legal battle between its last owner and insurance companies over mold infestation and whether or not the building could be safely renovated, further complicated by legalities where if the city condemned the building it would face certain liabilities, kept this from even being started for years, and not knowing whether this building would exist or not kept parts of the new WTC design in flux, as the PANYNJ wanted to use part of the 130 Liberty footprint as part of the cargo entrance and associated security inspection area.

(* - also referred to as the "Deutsche Bank" or "Banker's Trust" building or plaza. Most DB employees - of which I was one at the time - referred to it as "BT Plaza" right up to 9/11, despite DB acquiring BT a couple of years earlier - the initial integration was completed in June 1999.)

Now add to those logistical factors some less rational elements - first off was the argument over what was to be rebuilt - the Twin Towers, the entire complex, something new, just a memorial and park? Politics, of course, permeated the discussion - Pataki came to want a monument to his ego, Giuliani never seemed to fully engage in the process, and the state/city hybrid of the LMDC and the interstate nature of the PANYNJ creating further confusion, as individual players pursued their own agendas.

Layer on top of that the special magic that you get when you mix government, contractors, and unions...the same thing you see every time you pass a pothole being filled and you see six or seven guys standing around scratching their butts watching one or two actually doing something, but magnified to a colossal scale. Admittedly its sometimes not the best of work environments, and I do feel sorry for them on a bitter winter day, but the speed with which Seven WTC was rebuilt shows what's possible when you have effective decision-making and take one of the three elements (in this case, government) out. (The fact that 7WTC is outside of the "bathtub" helped too, let's be honest.)

Particularly galling was the collusion between some government officials and contractors - the 130 Liberty deconstruction was hampered (and stopped completely for some time) because the contractor used a subcontractor with political connections called the John Galt Corporation (named after the Ayn Rand novel hero, apparently), whose incompetence led to a fire that killed two firefighters - they and others are under indictment for the deaths.

And finally, add in the behaviour and incessant (and in some cases irrational) demands of some of the victim's families and co-workers. (Not all, but a pretty good proportion.) First this caused delay in the basic concept of the memorial - leading the pack here was the firefighters, demanding that their "brothers" be honoured separately from the main memorial, even delaying decisions for weeks arguing over how they would be noted on the memorial - just by name, or by unit then by name, or...it went on and on.

Even more disturbing is the insistence on the part of some families that work must be completely stopped every time even the smallest remnant of human remains turn up. This has happened repeatedly during the 130 Liberty deconstruction - at one point deconstruction was halted for months because a few bone fragments smaller than a dime were found, and some of the families started their calls about "needing closure" and such again. I try to be sympathetic to them, I really, do...but frankly, if after eight and a half years you can't accept your loved one is dead, that's called "detachment from reality" and you need treatment.

And this is just a brief summary of what put us where we are - the first tower and transportation center are supposed to be completed by 2012, although I'll believe it when I see it. As far as I can ascertain, work on the memorial hasn't even started (and I don't think it can until most of the "bathtub" is filled in), but it's supposed to be completed by the tenth anniversary of the attack. Again, believe it when I see it. I can't find a timeline for buildings 2, 3, or 4, although Wikipedia mentions several sources suggesting that at least two of these three will be initially built just as "stubs", only 4 or 5 stories tall, and completed later. (That's not so far off the original WTC - buildings 4, 5, and 6 were not that large.) A fifth building, announced for the 130 Liberty site, can't be started until the existing building is deconstructed, and LMDC is saying that won't be completed until sometime in 2013...and JP Morgan Chase, the announced tenant, has since backed away from the project after inheriting a very new tower in Midtown on acquisition of Bear Sterns. (Ironically, they sold the previous JP Morgan HQ downtown just before 9/11...to Deutsche Bank.) This has already reopened the argument of more office space vs. residential space.

In hindsight, we should have just rebuilt the PATH station, built a memorial, and made the rest into a park...at least it'd be done now, and we could always build office towers later.

But we didn't, so a big hole remains in downtown New York, eight and a half years after the attack...and thus a small hole remains in the hearts of many New Yorkers. Even this cynical, jaded one...at the end of the first season of Fringe, when Olivia travels to the alternate timeline and the camera pulls back out the window to show she's in one of the Twin Towers, intact and where they're supposed to be in 2009, I got choked up a little, and I wasn't the only one.


User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 17):

  

Damn, couldn't say it better myself. I know the sentiment among people I talk to about the subject is just to get something done at this point. It's so pathetic to have to go through that pit every time you take the PATH. And I agree, at the pace they are going now, I can't see anything being done by the 10th anniversary next year.



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineflybaurLAX From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

Quoting flybaurLAX (Reply 1):
I halfheartedly agree with you.

Sorry I didn't realize I said that, I meant WHOLEHEARTEDLY.



Boilerup! Go Purdue!
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6630 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5374 times:

Quoting newark777 (Reply 13):
They are still finding human remains every once in a while, but the fact is that the WTC site is right in the middle of the downtown NY financial district, and life has to go on.

How can they still find human remains when all there is now is a hole in the ground?


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5364 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
BULL!

That looks like cheap, ordinary run of the mill crap that is going up in just about any other major city.

Got to agree with Larry, it's bad.

I am for building the buildings exaclty as they were, with new age technology they would great and once that last bolt and last tile were done we could send a message to AQ that would resonate around the world. I hope someone steps up. I am respectful of those that gave their lives there but we need to build them back they way they were.


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

Look it may be all warm and fuzzy for Americans to wrap themselves in a blanket of denial, but making empty gestures of something just to make one feel that way doesn't make it so. Claiming not letting the terrorists win at this point is silly. They did win. They fundamentally changed the way the US works and interacts with citizens everyday. A couple of new buildings put up to look like old ones are like the faux brownstones hiding manufacturing / office facilities in Brooklyn and other cities. A veneer, nothing more.

Just a few of the changes:

1.) AIrport security (still a joke) but more invasive than ever.
2.) The red tape needed for drivers licenses, when the terrorists were in the country legally.
3.) IDs still needed in many/most towers on business. (What does this do? Nothing but hassle.)
4.) $2.5 TRILLION has been committed for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus a generation of Americans being born and raised unaware that the US has not always been "at war". Thousands have died, and tens of thousands wounded in "fighting terrorists". Not to mention the 20+ years of war debt that have been dumped at their feet.
5.) High school and other bomb scare pranks are taken as federal offenses and not to be laughed off.
6.) It will take 15 to 20 years post-attack to have the WTC site fully rebuilt.
7.) "Patriot" Act
8.) The US becoming darn near hostile of outside tourists in immigration / customs. Fingerprinting, biometric passports, etc.
9.) Airport delays, regular closing of entire terminals because someone got thru security and rescanning everyone. Mass delays, chaos, lost productivity in the hundreds of billions of $$$. Airline travel now relegated to "only when I have to go, and even then it's displeasurable and to be avoided at all costs" mentality among business executives.

Need I go on?


User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5357 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
How can they still find human remains when all there is now is a hole in the ground?

These days, most are found on or in adjacent buildings, landing there after getting blasted out of the WTC in the plane impacts or during the collapse. As exFATboy mentioned, work at the Deutsche Bank building and others has been halted many times when these remains are found.

There is also still debate going on about the debris at Fresh Kills, as that surely still has some human remains as well.



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5322 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
I am for building the buildings exaclty as they were, with new age technology they would great and once that last bolt and last tile were done we could send a message to AQ that would resonate around the world. I hope someone steps up. I am respectful of those that gave their lives there but we need to build them back they way they were.

I'm with you.



Airliners.net of the Future
25 NorthStarDC4M : Im showing this thread to someone i work with who worked in the twin towers in the late 90s... As he puts it, they were gawd awful places to work. He
26 NIKV69 : Oh yea asking someone to provide proof your a citizen is such a change? Your hate and jealousy for the US is obvious but these ridiculous statements
27 Post contains links C172Akula : Thread on the construction progress of 'One World Trade Centre' here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=123628
28 bhill : I think it should be built to look like the middle finger flipping 'em off....
29 falstaff : I would love to see the same buildings there again. It would be like a big middle finger to Osama and his pals. Cemetaries get moved from time to time
30 BMI727 : I agree, but a lot of other people probably don't, which could throw a wrench in the works.
31 EA CO AS : I have to ask - and I swear I mean no disrespect in asking this - but do you ever have anything POSITIVE to say? Seems like every post I ever see fro
32 falstaff : don't worry they give me a hard time too. I always get the third degree when driving back from Canada and I am natural born citizen and I'm white.
33 AirframeAS : I recall reading something about that in the NYTimes a few years ago. This is what is stalling the new projects for the site. IMO, that hole will sti
34 BMI727 : I think that the problem with Ground Zero would be that there is really no way to make sure that all of the remains are removed, which makes it a bit
35 AirframeAS : I understand that but there are still people buried there.
36 comorin : I'd like to contradict a few canards by posters in here: 1. I worked at 1WTC and loved it. The elevators were the fastest in NYC and taking 2 elevator
37 Post contains links and images newark777 : The hole is certainly not untouched now, as you can see from this picture I lifted from Wikipedia. You can see the main tower going up and the two me
38 Post contains images UAL747 : Agree on the fact that this should not turn into a political thread. We also have to remember that the entire WTC site is huge. Just look at the pict
39 Superfly : ...and therein lies the problem. We've become too cheap, and spineless and have allowed a bunch of whinny, irrelevant, counterproductive environmenta
40 wn700driver : Fortunately, you can't see them from Singapore. .. I do agree with that though. This is ridiculous and costs our reputation of being an "industrious"
41 newark777 : Thankfully the military isn't unionized. If I remember correctly, much of their criticism came in their early years, and they got absolutely slammed
42 photopilot : Absolutely Right. Al-Q did WIN. The economic cost to the Western World has been nothing short of staggering. And here it is 10 years later, and Osama
43 Ltbewr : From some research I did earlier today, I believe that the reason the PANYNJ got into building the WTC project was a trade off with the State of New
44 Post contains links MoltenRock : True. Osama is still out there roaming free to be able to see such a gesture. Assuming he doesn't croak before they are done being built. Absolutely.
45 Superfly : For anyone to call the twin towers "too tall" has no appreciation for architecture, engineering and probably no appreciation for fast cars, fast trai
46 DocLightning : And New York wasn't the same city after they were built. This was my major beef with NYC: they can't get anything done. 60 years before even consider
47 NIKV69 : Priceless LOL, I love your math but lets get a little back to reality. Construction began in 2006 and are expected to be done in 2013. That's 7 years
48 newark777 : Speaking of which, there have been accusations of serious rat problems from Upper East Side residents since the blasting has begun. The people runnin
49 Post contains links MoltenRock : First off you said 5 years, now you're saying 7? Which is it? It seems a pretty standard definition to anyone that "rebuilding the WTC" means from th
50 wn700driver : I should just take this opportunity to clarify that what I said wasn't a slight against our military (though I will contend that it is not anywhere c
51 Post contains images mirrodie : True. But as I have not personally lost a loved one there, I can't make that statement nor can I put myself in their shoes to say those words. To Alo
52 newark777 : Because a car bomb is the same thing as a 16 acre site that is completely obliterated. Borderline slave labor will do that. I agree, and I didn't int
53 newark777 : I didn't lose any family members either, just family friends, but family of the deceased shouldn't have the final say over what happens at the WTC. T
54 wn700driver : That they ever were was at best debateable. In any case, Taipei 101 settled the issue in 2004 when it cleared them, the Sears and everyone else by a
55 PC12Fan : Exactly. Therefore it's not a burial site. It's one of the few times I back up Donald Trump. He says the current design is garbage. He suggests the t
56 MoltenRock : You do realize the Chinese "slave labor" was actually employed in the United States in building the transcontinental railroad right? Of course back t
57 newark777 : Which has little to do with the fact that comparing Chinese and American construction times is comparing apples and oranges.
58 falstaff : What was going on in China 150 years ago? Anything any better?
59 MoltenRock : You brought up "slave labor" of the Chinese not me. I was merely demonstrating a point. Instead of admitting the US political system is broken when i
60 Post contains links STT757 : Your information is not accurate, construction is well under way on many projects including One World Trade Center, the new PATH hub, the underground
61 MoltenRock : Personally, the US government (Bush & Republicans) should have stepped in and fast tracked all the approvals necessary and funded a rebuilt tower
62 Post contains images EA CO AS : No, it merely means you have a differing viewpoint.
63 Post contains links and images MoltenRock : I think something like these were more appropriate to replace the WTC: Building being built in China: A very retro modern chic. Eco-Green Concept:
64 soon7x7 : No, you don't have to go on...Ours is a country that stands for a great deal,...both to its citizens and to the world...still. We as Americans realiz
65 BMI727 : Looks like a penis. Better, but I'm not really a fan of the whole curvy twisted thing. A smooth faceted look would be a lot better. Which ecotard tho
66 photopilot : This is why the world laughs at the USA today. Your sense of self-worth is so blatently false and exaggerated that you're a laughing stock to many. T
67 BMI727 : ...which very well may have collapsed if not for American intervention and support, particularly from an industrial standpoint. But that is for anoth
68 deltaownsall : This is way off topic...but picking apart the numbers of troops that Canada, UK, and the US committed to Normandy? Seriously? This is absurd on many
69 Post contains images wn700driver : Look, I know you're not a Bush fan. But what LMDC does (or rather does not do!) really isn't a federal issue. Sure, I think a lot of us believe the F
70 soon7x7 : OK, you got me on the "Thousands of Battle Ships",...a lot of battle ships and thousands of sea faring water vehicles...submarines, destroyers, higgi
71 Post contains links and images Airport : Here's a link to another forum I go to, to a thread that has a whole ton of photos of the old WTC. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=11
72 STT757 : You feel comfortable saying that years before they're even finished being built, common. Look at the new 7 WTC that is complete, it's a huge improvem
73 Post contains images soon7x7 : I concur...case closed...
74 F9Animal : Life does have to go on... But, the fact of the matter is, that 3,000 lives were lost in this confined area from a sickening attack. It would be like
75 BMI727 : Nobody disagrees with that, but a tribute doesn't mean that we cannot or should not rebuild some replacement on the site.
76 F9Animal : Oh, I totally agree with you and others on this. I also agree that it has taken way too long to move forward in building it.
77 NAV20 : I can maybe contribute some extra angles to the debate. My daughter was living and working in downtown Manhattan before and during 9/11, and I used to
78 ltbewr : If you study the history of the WTC, it was mostly a finanical disaster. The ego of the 1960's era head of the PANYNJ pushed this building to it huge
79 soon7x7 : Much agreed...initially the Towers occupation level was a slow start...for many reasons and the shear geometry of them I'm sure added to the reluctan
80 Post contains links PC12Fan : http://www.triroc.com/wtc/pix/makenynyagain.jpg This is what it should be.
81 soon7x7 : They are Bold and Mighty!...as they should be...nice find...King Kong must be rolling in his grave!...(no offense to my non intended punn)...g
82 mirrodie : And nor did I state such. But to tell folks to get over it is only fighting fire with gasoline. of course there is emotion, pride and $$$ at stake in
83 soon7x7 : I would catagorize my responses more as passionate ones rather than heated, but I get it...others make very good points...if we all agreed, these thr
84 Post contains images soon7x7 : Couldn't help myself...I dug up this old negative of mine...don't they look great!
85 mirrodie : Of course they do! I think I heard on the news this evening that some new plans for hte WTC were agreed upon. Anyone catch that?
86 MadameConcorde : I agree with everything you said. Life in the US after 9/11 is not the same anymore. It is hell going through airports with the increased security ch
87 Post contains images steeler83 : Yep, I kinda feel that way as well...especially after seeing the renderings of China's World Trade Center being built in Beijing... Really, I don't t
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