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Gordon Brown To Step Down  
User currently offlineseemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 971 posts, RR: 7
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

Quite a shock, especially as he said he would stay on.

Link


seemyseems
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12595 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Constitutionally, he was/is obliged to remain as PM and presumably he will remain as Labour leader until one of the Millibands is ready. I'm sure people were lining up to tell him that it was time to go; as long as he was in power, Labour had no chance of winning a new election. A new leader and a fresh start is what needed; the new government under DC will have very bumpy ride and I can't see it lasting; many on both sides (Lib Dem and Tory) are against it, so if Labour can take the time to regroup, it could conceivably make it in next time.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition, a coalition that would clearly not represent the true wishes of the country. A final, desperate, disgusting act from this disgusting man who has made a career out of ignoring us.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMasterBean From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3370 times:

Lets face it, this whole party coalition thing is rubbish, and we'll have a general election soon. As my mum said, the guy with the least votes (Cleggy) is deciding what the country wants, even though the country decided they don't want him. We're all screwed, bring on another election.

User currently offlineEI320 From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3324 times:

It was only a matter of time really, a new leader is what Labour needs to move forward. David Miliband has already been mentioned as a possible successor.

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
As my mum said, the guy with the least votes (Cleggy) is deciding what the country wants, even though the country decided they don't want him.

I wouldn't necessarily agree here, what the electorate have shown is that they don't really know what they want - hence the hung parliament. If either of the two main parties had won by a clear majority we wouldn't be in this situation.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3319 times:

Quoting EI320 (Reply 4):
It was only a matter of time really, a new leader is what Labour needs to move forward. David Miliband has already been mentioned as a possible successor.

That's fine, but to move forward how? If it's as the opposition then fine, as that's where the people said they wanted them to be. If it's as an unwanted and unelected government then it is simply sickening.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1818 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3311 times:

Quoting EI320 (Reply 4):
Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
As my mum said, the guy with the least votes (Cleggy) is deciding what the country wants, even though the country decided they don't want him.

I wouldn't necessarily agree here, what the electorate have shown is that they don't really know what they want - hence the hung parliament. If either of the two main parties had won by a clear majority we wouldn't be in this situation.

I think what he was getting at is the man who came third (Clegg) is now in the driving seat and that is just wrong. He is playing or will play Labour off with the Conservatives and choose the best option. He should not have such power.

All i can say about Gordon Brown is good riddance. For 13 miserable years you have been number two and number one in a Government which has wrecked Britain and so many will be glad to see the back of you.



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3210 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition, a coalition that would clearly not represent the true wishes of the country. A final, desperate, disgusting act from this disgusting man who has made a career out of ignoring us.

Oh yawn, what would you have been saying if he hadn't announced this?  

He had to leave now and he's made his mistakes, but for his faults, i think he was a decent, hard-working man who isn't in politics for his own gain. His treatment from Murdoch's media has been utterly shameless.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 7):
Oh yawn, what would you have been saying if he hadn't announced this?

Tired? I would have been saying that it would give us a better chance of securing a coalition that better reflected the nation's wishes. That's what I'd be saying. Then, after all had been settled, I would want him to leave as party leader.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
I would have been saying that it would give us a better chance of securing a coalition that better reflected the nation's wishes.

Huh? The Tories have failed to form a majority government, and if they fail to come to a compromise with the Liberals this is Browns fault?

This notion that the nation necessarily wants a Con-Lib coalition because Cons had more votes is simplistic also.

By the same logic you could argue the nation's wishes are a Con-Lab government which is obviously ridiculous.

[Edited 2010-05-10 14:52:15]

User currently offlineEI320 From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
That's fine, but to move forward how? If it's as the opposition then fine, as that's where the people said they wanted them to be. If it's as an unwanted and unelected government then it is simply sickening.

As opposition I expect. It's only fair that David Cameron gets a spell in No.10 now despite the fact that he failed to secure an overall majority. He's clearly the preferred candidate and no one can dispute that.

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 6):
He is playing or will play Labour off with the Conservatives and choose the best option. He should not have such power.

It's not the ideal situation by any means. But the Lib Dems, as you would expect, will make the most of it - as would any party in their situation.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
By the same logic you could argue the nation's wishes are a Con-Lab government which is obviously ridiculous.

If you wanted to reduce the argument to such empirical levels as to bear no relevance to the actual situation, then yes - you would be right. In terms of what is actually going on here, no.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
This notion that the nation necessarily wants a Con-Lib coalition because Cons had more votes is simplistic also.

The Conservative party secured more votes and seats than any other party. It is clear they have the biggest mandate to lead the country, and clear that the only way this can actually now be achieved best is with Lib Dem support. The whole stupid system can be described as simplistic and rather undemocratic, but here we are anyway.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
If you wanted to reduce the argument to such empirical levels as to bear no relevance to the actual situation, then yes - you would be right. In terms of what is actually going on here, no.

I don't see why it is irrelevant. Lib voters voted for Lib policies so if the Lib politicians find them to be too incompatible with Tories' then the Lib voters are likely to have done too.

The set of procedures behind a hung parliament are not without thought. The parties are negotiating on behalf of their voters now, and in effect, on behalf of the nation.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7393 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

democracy - why bother??? What a waste of time...

Good riddance to bad rubbish. It's a pity the next PM will be the same shit different name though.


User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1818 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting EI320 (Reply 10):

don't get me wrong I agree with you and any party would do the same if they were in Clegg's position. But I think it is bad that the 3 most popular party in the UK can have so much power in determining the next Government. They came third, only 22%~ Of the public voted them yet they now have more power than the Torries or Labour in a way. Wrong.



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineJM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

As an outsider, let me ask a question: why was Gordon Brown so unpopular? I know he seemed out of touch with the people. Was that it?

Quoting EI320 (Reply 10):
As opposition I expect. It's only fair that David Cameron gets a spell in No.10 now despite the fact that he failed to secure an overall majority. He's clearly the preferred candidate and no one can dispute that.

True enough. But in government like these, with no outright majority, it's all about coalitions. Aren't the libs closer in policy to Labour?



"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
User currently offlineTristarAtLCA From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

The argument that because Cameron fell 19 short (and it will be 18 when the Tories win a safe seat in the delayed election up North) this somehow means a Lib-Lab coalition, who even combined cannot generate a majority, have any sort of mandate to govern is just laughable and will create the second successive unelected PM in row, despite having an election possibly just a week past.


If you was right..................I'd agree with you
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition, a coalition that would clearly not represent the true wishes of the country. A final, desperate, disgusting act from this disgusting man who has made a career out of ignoring us.

How do you figure? Together, the Lib-Lab pair earned 52 percent of the vote, to the Tories' 36 percent. Seems to me that a government advocating shared policies of Liberal Democrats and Labour would be preferred over a government run by Conservative policies. For that matter, the Tory-Liberal pair earned 59 percent of the vote, so a government run according to shared policies of those parties would also be preferred over a Labour-policy government.

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
Lets face it, this whole party coalition thing is rubbish

Works pretty well in lots of other democracies.

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 6):
I think what he was getting at is the man who came third (Clegg) is now in the driving seat and that is just wrong. He is playing or will play Labour off with the Conservatives and choose the best option. He should not have such power.

Why not? It's pretty clear that no party has the mandate of a majority of the electorate - both in the MP totals, and even more so in the popular vote - so it's not like the British people have agreed that they want Cameron as their leader. Clegg's block of voters is a full 60% of the size of Cameron's, so it's not like he's some trivial third party. And whatever coalition is formed, Clegg's not going to be in charge. Choosing who's going to be in power is a much smaller degree of authority than actually being in power.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 17):
For that matter, the Tory-Liberal pair earned 59 percent of the vote, so a government run according to shared policies of those parties would also be preferred over a Labour-policy government.

Precisely, and most importantly would not involve one of the most reviled governments of our time maintaining the top spot. That is what this is about.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 3):
Lets face it, this whole party coalition thing is rubbish

Check out the current situation in Canada - and its not as unusual here as it is in Britain. Funnily enough, Canada is probably one of the stronger nations in the world right now. Who knows if theres any correllation...

Quoting seemyseems (Thread starter):
Quite a shock

Really? Seems to me neither he personally or the Labour party had much choice if they didnt win the election.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

Although I think he did a great job under very difficult circumstances, while Tony Blair cowardly ran off before it hit the fan, I think Gordon's comments to that 'bigot' woman showed just how overstuffed he is with himself and not really concerned with what the public want or think. I didn't want to believe it but maybe he is the bully they say he is.

If they change the Labour leader I'll vote for the next one.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

If a Tory government had come second but with a hung Parliament, the situation would be the same, it's the system.
You really have to get to 326 seats to properly win.
We are just not used to this since it has not happened for 36 years.

Since, we have had government, Labour and Conservative, with total, unchallenged control, 100+ seats, though with actual share of the vote around 40%
You can argue that is not fair either.
In the UK, a large majority has been called a 'elected dictatorship'.

Question - would we have got into Iraq with a Coalition government?


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 21):
Since, we have had government, Labour and Conservative, with total, unchallenged control, 100+ seats, though with actual share of the vote around 40%
You can argue that is not fair either.

John Cleese (of Monty Python fame) on the need for PR, from a 1987 broadcast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSUKMa1cYHk



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21865 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 14):
But I think it is bad that the 3 most popular party in the UK can have so much power in determining the next Government. They came third, only 22%~ Of the public voted them yet they now have more power than the Torries or Labour in a way. Wrong.

You get the same thing in the US where a very small number of states get to decide the presidential election.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27316 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2877 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
This is a cynical attempt to woo the Liberal Democrats into a Labour-led coalition,

Indeed so obvious its cringe material. Good ridence.


25 vc10 : What I find odd in this horse trading situation is 1] Labour and Liberals are not only the 2nd and 3rd most popular parties,but they are also the only
26 Post contains images danfearn77 : He was not a people man. And personally i thought he was scruffy and unkept. He never looked like a leader when on stage with Obama or other World le
27 Yellowstone : Why is the direction of the vote swing relevant? If in one election the Labour candidate beats his Tory opponent 60-40, and in the next wins 51-49, w
28 Glom : I was warming to the idea of STV, or more appropriately I was becoming less opposed. There are some attributes about it that I like, such as being abl
29 Baroque : A bit puzzling to know what some folk want. The Cons got what, 36% of the vote and have less than 50% of the seats so at best a minority government. P
30 RJ111 : Lot of rumours that a deal between the Libs and Tories is imminent.
31 GDB : Much as I would to see a real 'progressive coalition', the numbers now are not there. Con-Dem (not to tempt fate?) works in numbers and it better refl
32 Post contains images PlymSpotter : And off he goes to the Queen. Gordon and Labour are finally over - this calls for a beer
33 Post contains links GDB : A dignified exit, a complex man, with flaws, like all PM's, it will be important to him that he goes after losing an election, though not as badly as
34 Post contains images oa260 : Indeed its finally over
35 RJ111 : Classy exit. Clegg is now Deputy PM.
36 MadameConcorde : Classy exit Mr. Gordon Brown! Now, I am not sure what Mr Cameron will be doing that's any better as to restoring the British economy and the people (
37 PlymSpotter : He is the UK Prime Minister now. Cuts are going to be wide and far reaching, if you look at the distribution of earners against those who pay the hig
38 GDB : An equally dignified entrance from PM David Cameron at Downing Street. Looks young and unlined now, the weight of the office will, as always, change t
39 kaitak : ... or to get the hell out! I would like to wish DC good luck; I don't particularly welcome his premiership. I think the UK is in for some savage cut
40 Post contains links MadameConcorde : Cameron and Boris, scions of royal blood Research by the website findmypast.co.uk has revealed that the two most prominent men in the Conservative Par
41 TristarAtLCA : We have the only coalition which would be acceptable to most people in the UK and good luck to it for as long as it lasts. On his last hour in the job
42 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Unless I am wrong, Nick Clegg is a left winger. How is this going to work between him and an elitist conservative such as Mr Camron? I don't see how
43 TristarAtLCA : Interesting you say that MC, because if you had seen their backgrounds without knowing their allegiances you would probably pick Clegg as the Tory. H
44 ANstar : They will initially agree on areas where they have commonality and after that*... A NEW GENERAL ELECTION! *1,2,3, or 6 months.
45 oa260 : Their immigration amnesty !! Thank god
46 Ken777 : That is what you end up with when you have as many parties as the UK has. Personally I believe that it brings a bit of a check on the senior party as
47 Post contains links GDB : Agreed. It makes no real odds about how much or not, the Lib Dems share of the vote was, aside from the fact that they gained some 800,000 votes more
48 TristarAtLCA : Has that been confirmed? I assumed it would be one of the conditions.
49 gkirk : Bring back Hitler, all is forgiven. The UK is now being run by a complete tw&t. Oh well....
50 MasterBean : David Cameron is prime minister, oh God, it's the end of the world. I may have to shoot this man before he starts rambling on about how he is so great
51 Post contains images CPH-R : Whoa, compasionate remarks already
52 imiakhtar : Agreed. Did anyone pick up on the inferences to 'Big Society' during Cameron's speech or twas it just my paranoid self?
53 Post contains images TristarAtLCA : Hitler. The end of the world. Big Society Really helps to have a sense of perspective, especially when no-one here has ever lived under these interest
54 Post contains images Baroque : Oh well, the record of elected PMs coming only from Oxford continues. Close run thing to have a Deputy PM from Cambridge though. Far too close for com
55 GDB : One thing is for sure, when the Tories called their election manifesto Invitation To Join The Government Of Britain they did not have in mind 5 LD sen
56 Bongodog1964 : That was the past three years, a man who towards the end couldn't safely be allowed out in public without his nurse/warder at his side. She was even
57 Baroque : Pushing towards PR one has to note. I suppose if it were to work out well, that might defuse a bit of the Tory wrath about being so "compromised" or
58 offloaded : My favourite part of Brown's speach was "thank you and goodbye."
59 Baroque : Apparently Rudd in congratulating Cameron told him that visiting Aus during the upcoming Ashes series might prove "convenient". Then again, Rudd has
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