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Basketball In Cleveland Has Died  
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

I can't believe I would ever say I feel bad for Cleveland but boy oh boy did Lebron quit on you guys tonight. The last two minutes were hard to watch but Lebron showed the whole world by he will never be like Kareem, Michael, Shaq or Kobe. He is a quitter. Great players not only put up the numbers but bring the rest of the team up and Lebron has shown he doesn't possess this quality. When Kareem went down to injury Magic Johnson took the lead and brought home the ribbon, when the Bulls needed a spark Jordan took over the game and made Pippen better. All Lebron does when the heat is on is take 3 point shots. When they fall it's great but when they don't he folds like he did tonight and takes off his jersey before he even gets near the locker room. I think we have seen the last game he will play as a Cavalier.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15494 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
He is a quitter.

But, would you still want him on your team? (Hint: If you say no, you are a basketball retard)

Quoting NIKV69 (Thread starter):
The last two minutes were hard to watch but Lebron showed the whole world by he will never be like Kareem, Michael, Shaq or Kobe.

I think he can. In basketball a team of one man will never win championships. Stopping a team with one great player is a relatively easy thing to do. You seem to miss the fact that the players you cite have played with far better supporting casts than the Cavs ever had. Honestly, as a Bulls fan I must admit, he is probably better than MJ was at that point in his career.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
But, would you still want him on your team? (Hint: If you say no, you are a basketball retard)

Yea ok, 3 times a loser with the best squad? How do you have the best regular season record and go out like this? (hint you can't close the deal, can't lead your team, can't shine at the crucial time.)

Did you even watch the last two games? Embarassing doesn't even come close.

No I don't want him.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
In basketball a team of one man will never win championships.

Of course but they couldn't even beat a team full of has beens, You can't tell me that Boston was the better squad, it wasn't even close. Losing to Orlando is one thing but this was bad.


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2785 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Stopping a team with one great player is a relatively easy thing to do.

Not really. Allen Iverson ran all the way to the Finals in a tough year in 2001, and Dwyane Wade led the Heat to a championship in 2006. With talent so spread out now, it's essentially 1 or 2 superstars on a team, nothing like the Showtime Lakers in the 80's.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
You seem to miss the fact that the players you cite have played with far better supporting casts than the Cavs ever had.

Michael Jordan sure made Scottie Pippen a lot better during their time together, and despite being a great basketball player, Dennis Rodman was not an easy teammate to be with. What happened to the "great chemistry" that the Cavaliers supposedly had? LeBron James, Antawn Jamison, Shaquille O'Neal, J.J. Hickson, all these guys were doing pretty good in the regular season. LeBron could put up 40 points, 20 rebounds and 15 assists and it'd be ok cause its LeBron. But come playoff time, and you get a 15 point performance in a 29 point blowout...

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Honestly, as a Bulls fan I must admit, he is probably better than MJ was at that point in his career.

Physically, probably. Jordan had much better work ethic, he was way more competitive, he coached and made his teammates better, and he had a superior jump shot. LeBron is relying too much on his physical size to get to the hoop, and his jump shot needs a lot of work. It doesn't matter how good you are, Jordan would've never come on the court with the type of attitude that James brought for this series.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15494 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Yea ok, 3 times a loser with the best squad?

I'm not convinced of that at all. Does nobody else realize that the Celtics have three hall of famers on their team? He didn't lose to the Nets. Plus who is the second best player on the Cavs? Anderson Varejao? Gonna have to do better than that. The Cavs happen to have two of the leagues most immobile centers on their roster.

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
Allen Iverson ran all the way to the Finals in a tough year in 2001

And lost to a more complete Lakers team. There were some okay players there though.

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
Dwyane Wade led the Heat to a championship in 2006.

  They had (a still ambulatory) Shaq and Antoine Walker.

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
Dennis Rodman was not an easy teammate to be with.

Neither was MJ.

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
he coached and made his teammates better

That's revisionist history. Jordan had to learn to play on a team, and the Bulls were better for it.

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
and he had a superior jump shot.

I'm not sure that is true. I wasn't alive then so I don't know when it happened, but Jordan wasn't a great shooter at the beginning of his career. MJ didn't get his first ring until he was 28.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2785 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
And lost to a more complete Lakers team. There were some okay players there though.



The second best player on the 01 Sixers, I'd have to say its a close one between Eric Snow and Mutombo, but Mutombo was the second best player on that team... not saying much. O'Neal dropped 44 points and 26 rebounds on them. Oh yeah, there was also a certain shooting guard named Kobe Bryant on that team!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
They had (a still ambulatory) Shaq and Antoine Walker.

Eh, neither player was very good at that time... I mean, 365 pounds will always be 365 pounds, but LeBron has Big Z, Varejao, Jamison... all these big men are quality big men. Plus LeBron could very well play PF with no problems.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
I'm not sure that is true. I wasn't alive then so I don't know when it happened, but Jordan wasn't a great shooter at the beginning of his career. MJ didn't get his first ring until he was 28.

Well, Jordan was drafted when he was 21... as opposed to 18 (LeBron). So it took 7 years for Jordan to win his first title at 28, and 18 + 7 = 25... and LeBron is 25 years old right now!


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

Folks, after growing up in Cleveland, I can tell you there is a reason they are nicknamed the "Cadavers". From Ted Stepien, to World B. Free through LeBron James the Cavs have always been kind of a joke. Always the bridesmaid never the bride is the story of the Cleveland sporting teams from 1967 on to today. I think it has something to do with the Cuyahoga river fire!!    Gotta be some sort of curse hanging on to the city because of that!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Honestly, as a Bulls fan I must admit, he is probably better than MJ was at that point in his career.

Maybe at the base physical talent level but certainly not at a maturity level as an adult. I agree with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on this one and wish the NBA would stop robbing the craddle.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...1&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

Abdul-Jabbar said even "King James" would have benefited from college.

"He would have come into the professional ranks very polished, given his innate gifts," Abdul-Jabbar said. "Having to go through a college system would have made him a total gem as soon as he stepped out of the college ranks."


[Edited 2010-05-14 05:48:44]

User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1954 times:

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
Physically, probably. Jordan had much better work ethic, he was way more competitive, he coached and made his teammates better, and he had a superior jump shot. LeBron is relying too much on his physical size to get to the hoop, and his jump shot needs a lot of work. It doesn't matter how good you are, Jordan would've never come on the court with the type of attitude that James brought for this series.

Bingo.

Does anyone ever remember Michael talking about his "team" and referring to a business team? Does anyone ever remember Michael talking about "his brand"? Of course not; he only cared about one thing- being the best there was. Why was he so great? Because he worked harder than anyone else and had that drive to win. It may have taken him a few years to learn to play with a team and make others better; but even before that, he still had that DRIVE that I just don't seen in James.

Remember in the 80's, those playoff games against the Pistons? The Bulls would lose, but Jordan never quit. He had a mediocre team around him, but he never quit. He'd drive it into the paint against Lambier and Rodman, get knocked to the ground, take his foul shots, and get right back up and do it again and again and again. And his team would lose. And he'd come back out the next night with that same drive, same fire. "King" James just plain QUIT out there the past two nights.

I NEVER remember Jordan putting up a SINGLE game like that; let alone back-to-back ones. What was it, game 5 during the '97 or '98 finals when he had the flu? He was puking into a bucket on the bench, and still put up 35 or something obscene like that, and REFUSED to quit.

Let's hope LeBraun learns that; thus far I have not seen the same will to not jut win, but that drive to be the greatest player ever that Jordan had. He might well be better physically than Jordan ever was. But not mentally; I think being coroneted as the next Great One out of highschool didn't help matters



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2691 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1923 times:

I'm not gonna lie. I'm happy! I sure hope he darts Cleveland, and shakes the NBA up.   


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):

But, would you still want him on your team?

Sure, but only if I had a guy with actual killer instinct, like Kobe, Ray Allen, Garnett, Dewayne Wade, Shaq before about 33, Iverson, etc.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
You can't tell me that Boston was the better squad, it wasn't even close. Losing to Orlando is one thing but this was bad.

Boston had two things. A crippling defense and Rajon Rondo. The first one is what forced LeBron into submission. The second vaulted into super stardom.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Plus who is the second best player on the Cavs? Anderson Varejao?

Mo Williams and his 20 points in the first half last night might have something to say.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
The Cavs happen to have two of the leagues most immobile centers on their roster.

Shaq isn't Shaq of the Lakers or Magic, but he can certainly still move. Indeed, he actually played a pretty strong series. His body might not be able to shoulder the load anymore, but Shaq still has tons of heart deep down.

Quoting dxing (Reply 6):
I agree with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on this one and wish the NBA would stop robbing the craddle.

The NBA hasn't drafted out of high school for several years now. That said, being drafted out of high school didn't seem to bother Kobe or Garnett.

Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 7):

Does anyone ever remember Michael talking about his "team" and referring to a business team? Does anyone ever remember Michael talking about "his brand"? Of course not; he only cared about one thing- being the best there was.

Um, Jordan created his own Nike Sub-brand when he was still playing.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
I'm not convinced of that at all. Does nobody else realize that the Celtics have three hall of famers on their team? He didn't lose to the Nets. Plus who is the second best player on the Cavs? Anderson Varejao? Gonna have to do better than that. The Cavs happen to have two of the leagues most immobile centers on their roster.

Your not going to seriously tell me Boston was the better team? Clevelands style doesn't need a good center and Shaq only made the defense better. Cleveland won 61 games this year and was dominant. They got into a tough series and laid down and most of it has to be put on Lebron. He is the franchise, superstar, making the money, getting the endorsements etc. So when the team needs you and chips are down he has to deliver. Yet he acted like a child taking his toys and leaving, he quit, he stopped playing. Even his post game news conference was filled with individual overtones, all he said was "I" and "Me". He is a total disgrace, he has no concept of team or what it takes to be a leader. If you saw Boston when they raised their level of play they did it together. Wallace, Pierce, Garnett, these are all guys well past their prime and with Rondo and Baby stepping up they got it done.

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
Dennis Rodman was not an easy teammate to be with.

Yea but you will never find a better person once the whistle blew and the ball was put in play, he always put team first and did things to help his team win. He rebounded, took charges, blocked shots, made great passes and never bitched he was not getting the ball enough to score.

Quoting KPDX (Reply 8):
I'm not gonna lie. I'm happy! I sure hope he darts Cleveland, and shakes the NBA up.

Problem is if he gets a coach that doesn't put up with his selfishness you will have an issue, Cleveland's problem is they kissed his feet and let him do whatever he wanted. That doesn't fly in other programs.

[Edited 2010-05-14 10:03:23]

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1885 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Does nobody else realize that the Celtics have three hall of famers on their team?

Three? I see two. Garnett and Ray Allen. Pierce isn't there yet. If Bernard King and Mark Agguire aren't in, neither is Pierce at this point.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Problem is if he gets a coach that doesn't put up with his selfishness you will have an issue, Cleveland's problem is they kissed his feet and let him do whatever he wanted. That doesn't fly in other programs.

I would love to see him on a Phil Jackson, Larry Brown or Jerry Sloan coached team. You buy in through shear force of their will, or you know about it.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Three? I see two. Garnett and Ray Allen. Pierce isn't there yet. If Bernard King and Mark Agguire aren't in, neither is Pierce at this point

Pierce is not a HOF. Not even close.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13255 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1845 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):

But, would you still want him on your team?

Sure, but only if I had a guy with actual killer instinct, like Kobe, Ray Allen, Garnett, Dewayne Wade, Shaq before about 33, Iverson, etc.

  

Or to take it a step further, a guy who would only go down once his gun was empty. All the players listed above - Shaq included, in his heyday - would have gone down shooting, giving 110% on every possession in the playoffs.

LeBron didn't. And it's almost like he felt he didn't have to. Which makes him questionable as a teammate.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15494 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Three? I see two.

Rondo is on his way I think. People forget just how good he has become.

Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 7):
He might well be better physically than Jordan ever was. But not mentally

Except that LeBron is three years younger than Michael was when he won his first championship. To say that the MJ that came out of college was the exact same guy that won six rings is pure revisionist history.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Clevelands style doesn't need a good center and Shaq only made the defense better.

But it does require good players, and the Cavs don't have enough.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
But it does require good players, and the Cavs don't have enough.

Then how did they win 61 games?


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15494 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):
Then how did they win 61 games?

God awful Eastern Conference.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4356 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Your not going to seriously tell me Boston was the better team

So lets see... the Celtics went 6-4 against the Cavs this year, including 3 wins in Cleveland. 2nd time in 3 years eliminating the Cavs in the 2nd round, and by the way, essentially the same team that won the Championship.

Yeah, i'm seriously going to tell you the Celtics have been, and still are a better team.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Problem is if he gets a coach that doesn't put up with his selfishness you will have an issue,

I join you in being miffed at LeBron's overall performance in this series, but its simply not true to call him a selfish plaer without a concept of team. If anything, he has been criticized for being the opposite in his career.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineKBUF From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

Move them to Buffalo!   


"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup."-Terry Pegula, February 22, 2011
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2691 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 17):
Yeah, i'm seriously going to tell you the Celtics have been, and still are a better team.

Maybe head to head, but Cleveland was by far the better team. Post-season? That's a different story. Your just a homer if you honestly think Boston was the overall better team this season.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15494 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 19):
Your just a homer if you honestly think Boston was the overall better team this season.

To be fair, Boston was hurt and quite frankly, I think that they just cruised through some of the regular season. Kinda like what San Antonio does every year.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13255 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1543 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
Kinda like what San Antonio does every year.

Except San Antonio got knocked on their ass in the conference semifinals.   



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1509 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 17):
I join you in being miffed at LeBron's overall performance in this series, but its simply not true to call him a selfish plaer without a concept of team. If anything, he has been criticized for being the opposite in his career

Lebron has proved with this past debacle he can't make the people around him better. Something that all the greats from Shaq to Jordan did. You remember Shaqs first season with Orlando? How a team of basically nobody made it to the finals? That is what he did for every team he played for. Lebron can't do that. Whether he isn't a leader or the team doesn't respect him, but something is going on there. If you watched him from the end of the game till his presser you can tell he doesn't have a connection to his team anymore.

Quoting KPDX (Reply 19):
Maybe head to head, but Cleveland was by far the better team. Post-season? That's a different story. Your just a homer if you honestly think Boston was the overall better team this season.

Cleveland was the better team. Boston is old and slow and only won because of unbelievable performances by Baby and Rondo.


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