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Will The Euro Collapse?  
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 4958 times:

As far as I am concerned, I have altways thought of the Euro as an artificial currency.

“Former Bank of England policy maker says collapse of single currency unstoppable”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGeCiYBYjIs&feature=player_embedded

The currency is only being kept artificially alive by a series of bailouts off people's tax money.
Will the Euro collapse? Interesting times ahead...


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
129 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

It seems that certain spectators of Europe's project take an unseemly pleasure in seeing it fall into difficulty. The anti-EU and anti-Euro rhetoric is non-stop from certain interests, including all Murdoch owned media and certain other spectators with an axe to grind. It's a shame that so many millions of peoples livelihood is viewed cynically and as a mere political point scoring exercise by some interests.

An genuine interest in the common good of not only Europe, but the global economy would not take delight in the prospect of the collapse of the currency of hundreds of millions of people.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

Well it begs the question what will happen if it collapses?

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):
It seems that certain spectators of Europe's project take an unseemly pleasure in seeing it fall into difficulty.

Just as some supporters of the Euro took great delight not too long ago in predicting that the Euro would supplant the dollar as the currency of choice. What goes around comes around.

I wonder how many people stashed Lira/Francs/Marks in a drawer for the possible someday return of their national currencies?


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 2):
I wonder how many people stashed Lira/Francs/Marks in a drawer for the possible someday return of their national currencies?

When I spend Euros and convert them into French Francs, I see how much we have been ripped off by the European institutions and the new currency.

Simple things such as the cost of a train ticket from Monaco to Nice is telling me the true story, so does buying a fresh loaf or bread at the bakery.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
When I spend Euros and convert them into French Francs, I see how much we have been ripped off by the European institutions and the new currency.

And conveniently forget the 8 years of inflation averaging 2% per year you'd also have had in French Francs   . So please, the next time you convert Euros to Francs, divide the number you got by 1.17, will you?



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinefridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 4894 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
When I spend Euros and convert them into French Francs,
Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 4):
And conveniently forget the 8 years of inflation averaging 2% per year you'd also have had in French Francs   . So please, the next time you convert Euros to Francs, divide the number you got by 1.17, will you?

Please pardon my ignorance, but I thought French Francs were no longer in circulation, that France had completely switched to the Euro?

Can someone enlighten me please?

Thanks,

F



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 4880 times:

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 5):
Can someone enlighten me please?

You're absolutely right, Francs were changed into Euros at a fixed exchange rate (as were all other currencies in the Euro zone). Now what some people do is go to a shop, look up the price in Euro, multiply it by the fixed exchange rate used in 1999/2002 and complain about how expensive everything got...

A few examples from Austria:

end of 2001 you paid 38-42 ATS for a 0.5 l beer in a local pub. Now it's 3.20 to 3.50 EUR which would be 44 to 48 ATS ==> increase of 15%

in a local bed and breakfast, 2001 one night double room in high season was 1300 ATS, now it's 98 EUR, corresponding to 1349 ATS ==> increase of 3%

a salami in the supermarket 2001, 38 ATS, nowadays 3.20 EUR = 44 ATS ==> increase of 15%

and so on.

Then you hear things like, damn the Euro, the beer/salami price has increased 15%...



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5595 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 4862 times:

The key problem the Euro has is that countries are discovering that they can't control it like they could their own currency.

Now, I am not proscribing the view that the Euro will collapse or be abandoned en mass, but the Greek problem partly came about because the Greek government couldn't just inflate its problems away, it was stuck with a strong currency that it doesn't control and so must cut spending vigorously to regain its economy. This is why Britain is very happy happy to have its own currency.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineidealstandard From France, joined Apr 2009, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 5):
Please pardon my ignorance, but I thought French Francs were no longer in circulation, that France had completely switched to the Euro?

I think she means that she works it out at the conversion rate when it was dissolved - to see what todays prices are like in comparison.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2870 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 2):
Just as some supporters of the Euro took great delight not too long ago in predicting that the Euro would supplant the dollar as the currency of choice. What goes around comes around.

May still happen, but it wont be the euro it will be the Yuan !

From what I've heard from relatives in Europe, the cost of living is going through the roof  
Quoting idealstandard (Reply 8):

I think she means that she works it out at the conversion rate when it was dissolved - to see what todays prices are like in comparison.

That would be a depressing exercise!



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 8):
I think she means that she works it out at the conversion rate when it was dissolved - to see what todays prices are like in comparison.

This is what I mean, yes.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3636 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 4):
And conveniently forget the 8 years of inflation averaging 2% per year you'd also have had in French Francs . So please, the next time you convert Euros to Francs, divide the number you got by 1.17, will you?

Well, if inflation by itself has raised prices more than 100% (bread, milk, other basics) in 10 years and it has nothing to do with the Euro, it means more or less that the true inflation has been close to 5-7%....

Also, some big increases in prices happened almost overnight with the introduction of the Euro here.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 8):
Quoting fridgmus (Reply 5):
Please pardon my ignorance, but I thought French Francs were no longer in circulation, that France had completely switched to the Euro?

I think she means that she works it out at the conversion rate when it was dissolved - to see what todays prices are like in comparison.

The problem with the Euro introduction was that it was supposed to be cost neutral, this means that prices should just be converted based on the official exchange rate ( e.g. in Germany appr. 2 Deutschmarks per Euro). In reality many retailers used the introduction of the Euro to introduce hidden price hikes (and the authorities ignored these illegal price hikes completely). By now (due to psychological reasons) most products are priced at the same figures in Euros as tthey were priced in Deutschmarks (e.g. a pint of beer, which used to cost 2.50 DM back in 2000 now cost 2.50 Euros, this means a price increase by 100%).

Jan


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Quoting lewis (Reply 11):
Also, some big increases in prices happened almost overnight with the introduction of the Euro here.

Not only in Greece. The French Franc zone has seen some enormous price increases after the Euro was put in place. They did not come instantly but they certainly came.

We have been fooled. It still amazes me how people don't pay anymore attention to prices and the real value of what they are buying. Many basic things are so overpriced. One Euro for a baguette or a croissant is insane!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

Quoting lewis (Reply 11):
Well, if inflation by itself has raised prices more than 100% (bread, milk, other basics) in 10 years and it has nothing to do with the Euro, it means more or less that the true inflation has been close to 5-7%....

Also, some big increases in prices happened almost overnight with the introduction of the Euro here.

Of course, I cannot speak for Greece, but in Austria it didn't seem that way. The inflation rate of a "weekly goods basket" in the last nine years was determined as follows:

2001 3.1
2002 2.0
2003 1.9
2004 3.1
2005 4.5
2006 2.5
2007 2.8
2008 7.9
2009 -3.4

source: http://www.statistik.at/web_de/stati...2010_tabellenteil_excel_043205.xls

This yields a total increase of 26.2% over the last 9 years, or an average inflation of 2.5% per year. I do admit however, that in other EU countries this might be higher, I do not know that...

The basket includes:
bread 7.1%
pastries 6.6%
pizza, frozen 1.9%
Topfengolatsche, an Austrian pastry 3.8%
pork loin 4.7%
turkey breast 4.1%
toast ham 7.2%
milk 8.5%
yogurt 3.4%
Gouda cheese 4.1%
butter 3.5%
apples 4.2%
tomatoes 3.0%
potatoes 3.8%
chocolate 5.9%
bottled water 3.5%
orange juice 6.9%
beer 6.9%
sandwich 3.9%
daily newspaper 5.3%
coffee 2.6%

source: http://www.statistik.at/web_de/static/mikrowarenkorb_022519.pdf



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
By now (due to psychological reasons) most products are priced at the same figures in Euros as tthey were priced in Deutschmarks (e.g. a pint of beer, which used to cost 2.50 DM back in 2000 now cost 2.50 Euros, this means a price increase by 100%).

OK, I've grown up at the wrong place  Wow! . You could get a pint of beer for 2.50 DM???



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinesebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
As far as I am concerned, I have altways thought of the Euro as an artificial currency.

“Former Bank of England policy maker says collapse of single currency unstoppable”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGeCiYBYjIs&feature=player_embedded

The currency is only being kept artificially alive by a series of bailouts off people's tax money.
Will the Euro collapse? Interesting times ahead...

Well, all currency are artificial. The Euro was worth less than 1 dollar at it lowest and has strongly grown since then. I don't see the slightest problem with a Euro at 1.2 $. It was considered way too high, it is just taking it's right place.
I really doubt there will be a split of the Euro zone. It's probably what English would like, but it doesn't mean it will happen.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
We have been fooled. It still amazes me how people don't pay anymore attention to prices and the real value of what they are buying. Many basic things are so overpriced. One Euro for a baguette or a croissant is insane!

Yes, but it's not the "fault" of the Euro, but of the bakers.


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
We have been fooled. It still amazes me how people don't pay anymore attention to prices and the real value of what they are buying. Many basic things are so overpriced. One Euro for a baguette or a croissant is insane!

I can tell you what's really insane: 3.00 CHF (2.05 EUR) for 500 g of bread. 8.50 CHF (5.90 EUR) for a pint of beer. 62.00 CHF (42.80 EUR) for a kg of beef. 35.00 CHF (24.10 EUR) for a kg of poultry. Everything in Switzerland and guess what, we don't use the Euro here...



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 4711 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 4):
And conveniently forget the 8 years of inflation averaging 2% per year you'd also have had in French Francs . So please, the next time you convert Euros to Francs, divide the number you got by 1.17, will you?

In reality the Euro has led to lower inflation then otherwise.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7371 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 8):
I think she means that she works it out at the conversion rate when it was dissolved - to see what todays prices are like in comparison.

Her problem is that she isn't taking inflation into account so her point is well completely pointless. The prices in francs would also have risen over the same length of time.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7371 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 4702 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 17):
I can tell you what's really insane: 3.00 CHF (2.05 EUR) for 500 g of bread. 8.50 CHF (5.90 EUR) for a pint of beer. 62.00 CHF (42.80 EUR) for a kg of beef. 35.00 CHF (24.10 EUR) for a kg of poultry. Everything in Switzerland and guess what, we don't use the Euro here...

I don't know what those EuroZone folks are complaining about, prices in Switzerland appear about the same as prices in Norway, some a little more, some a little less, we are both being ripped off. In Norway high prices are what happens when a country pays incompetent farmers 20billion NOK in subsidies and slaps high tariffs on imported food, then people wonder why they pay so much for food.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 4696 times:

Will German Parliament vote the currency rescue package ?
How will Germany pay for this? Will they have to run the ECB's printing machines?


BERLIN — With the future of the euro in the balance, German lawmakers were expected Friday to approve the massive rescue deal to save the common currency and contain the debt crisis - a signal that the finance minister said was needed to reassure jittery markets.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...-as-lawmakers-vote-on-euro-rescue/


The German parliament is to vote on its contribution to a 750bn euro ($938bn, £651bn) rescue deal for the eurozone.
Chancellor Angela Merkel supports the rescue package, which is designed to shore up the finances of struggling eurozone countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10136128.stm



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
( e.g. in Germany appr. 2 Deutschmarks per Euro).

Yeah, crap! As an after-war country we used Deutsche Marks and just after Febryary 1st, 2002 when EURO took the throne, mostly or the better part of products converted their prices as they were in DMs!!! Maybe I'm wrong or it's just my imagination.
You could have a better choice with 5 DMs (coins or banknote ) rather than with 5 Euros! It's sad, indeed!



I miss Deutsche Marks!   



Fatmir



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineaviationmaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2481 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 4655 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
I don't know what those EuroZone folks are complaining about, prices in Switzerland appear about the same as prices in Norway, some a little more, some a little less, we are both being ripped off. In Norway high prices are what happens when a country pays incompetent farmers 20billion NOK in subsidies and slaps high tariffs on imported food, then people wonder why they pay so much for food.

You described the situation in Switzerland perfectly. Plus, people here have been manipulated and ripped off for decades to think that everything Swiss made has a higher quality than what's foreign. Prices in Switzerland have been falling (slowly) in the past decade due to new discounters, such as Aldi and Lidl, entering the market. And despite this new competition, many Swiss buyers still refuse to go shop there, either under the pretence that they have to support the local supermarkets against this new foreign "threat" or due to the quality of goods sold there not being as high as the Swiss option.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

It looks like the Bundestag has backed the Euro zone financial rescue plan.

http://www.ft.com/home/europe

Again, who is going to foot the bill? Is this going to come out of the tax payer's pockets?      Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
25 Post contains images TheCommodore : That's an understatement !!
26 offloaded : I don't really think many people are looking at the Euro in the UK gleefully hoping it will collapse. Most sensible people know that the fallout would
27 idealstandard : Yes, and no matter what any government official says, inflation is not the culprit. last time i checked, inflation of 100% in ten years is generally
28 OzGlobal : MadameConcorde has made well known her dislike for the EU and the Euro at each opportunity. Therefore, the title of this thread sounds more like a wi
29 connies4ever : Yes and no. Yes, national governments no longer control their monetary policies, the European Central Bank does. But the national governments make fi
30 slz396 : People really should do some reading and study the technicalities before posting here... In fact journalists should probably do the same, since I have
31 MadameConcorde : not without valid reasons. First reason is that I don't blindly believe what our Euro-poltiicians are telling us, be it Sarkozy, Merkel, Berlusconi,
32 slz396 : That is correct indeed. One may not forget that the raw data which started the Greek tragedy are still more favourable than those of the USA. Greece
33 OzGlobal : I fully agree with you there. The rules should have been and must be enforced, and if countries like Greece need to be kicked-out of the Euro (not th
34 MadameConcorde : Total utopia. Big illusion. This is just what the Eurocrat politicians liars want you to believe. They did not abide to the criteria until now. It wi
35 slz396 : As I have explained, that is not possible in practice as it will virtually bankrupt the country stepping out. After all, all of its depth is and will
36 AirPacific747 : It's a bargin compared to the prices here! We still have the krone, however at a fixed rate compared to the Euro.
37 eaa3 : The biggest problem with the Euro is that the countries can't print money. The reality is that in the US, UK, Japan and so forth they print money when
38 Acheron : It has been a really long time since currencies represented anything anywhere, so you are being quite naive.
39 474218 : I predict the Euro will survive. But each European country will have it own version with its own value. The French will have a Euro-Franc, the Germans
40 slz396 : That is correct indeed: only the ECB can decide to print extra money, and the ECB is an autonomous European institute so nobody can force them to do
41 aviationmaster : In this case, wouldn't they be better of by bringing back their old currency?
42 Post contains images NAV20 : Many thanks, MadameConcorde - Just in a few sentences, you've shown me (us?) what sort of problems the people of Europe are facing. Last time I visit
43 newark777 : Contrary to what? The Fed's job is to control inflation and gain the maximum employment possible.
44 Post contains images ajd1992 : Then the Eurozone is truely up shit creek without a paddle. I'm glad we still use GBP for this reason alone. Isn't that basically just having their o
45 newark777 : It would also cause a mess, since the weak countries would quickly have their currencies devalued, while their debts would still be denominated in Eu
46 eaa3 : It's naive on their part, and the EU as a whole, to think that they can simply change the nature of how governments finance themselves. Like it or no
47 Baroque : Yep, join a long established Australian club, the "anti reading Murdoch club". This was founded in the days before and after 11 November 1975 when Mu
48 Post contains images NAV20 : I happen to have known, and worked with, some of those 'engineers,' Baroque. Their sole professional priority, as far as I know, was to 'protect thei
49 MadameConcorde : Such an arrogant assessment! Who are you to judge/decide?
50 Post contains images slz396 : One franc for a coffee in Paris? The value of a currency is largery irrelevant for its domestic market, especially for big markets like the eurozone.
51 NAV20 : Last I heard, slz396, EADS needed a E3.5M bailout from the EU on account of the A400, and even then showed only a tiny profit on the financial year.
52 OzGlobal : Excuse me, Madame, but I did not make any judgement of who should be "kicked out" or how or when. I merely took up your very point that rules with co
53 eaa3 : Inflation is about zero right now. As matter fact 0,3% which off course is lower than what is considered optimal. However we might be heading into a
54 newark777 : But the Fed has nothing to do with the national debt, as you said.
55 Post contains links Baroque : Well actually it is not to protect their clients from harm, it is to try to make money for them and for themselves. I just object to controls having
56 newark777 : China and the US are in a sort of equilibrium right now, because any serious pain felt by the US would be felt by China as well, due to how closely l
57 connies4ever : Agreed with a caveat: China is now tied to America with an umbilical cord. If China were to dump US Treasuries, they wouldn't be able to move all of
58 MadameConcorde : EADS will always be bailed out by the E.U. if/when in financial trouble. Though if Boeing ever gets subsidized by the U.S. government, all will be pr
59 Post contains images 474218 : Your both correct it would be just like it was before the Euro. However, by calling the new (old?) currency the Euro-Franc, Euro-Mark, Euro-Lira, etc
60 Baroque : Probably it is different within a.net "rules" but in reality it is just part of the same topic, whatever affects one does either the same or the oppo
61 Ken777 : The largest supporting factor for the Dollar is probably the size of the single country market. The Euro covers a large market, but is made up of man
62 Post contains links NAV20 : Putting it as simply as I can, Baroque, what else is business about? I'd only add a few words: - [quote=Baroque,reply=55]Ok Nav two dollars (I am not
63 Post contains images ajd1992 : They have their own version anyway, each country has their own notes printed with their own national symbols on. One side is the standard "1/2/5 Euro
64 lewis : Um, no, notes are the same for all countries. What you are saying only applies to coins, upto 2 EUR.
65 AM744 : Exactly. Last October I found out that nothing costs less than 2 Euro.
66 474218 : Which is exactly what I suggest must happen. It is the only way the Euro can be saved. Just like before 1 January 1999, a German Euro-Mark would be w
67 Post contains links Braybuddy : Why convert them to a currency that hasn't existed for over eight years? You might as well convert them to ecus while you're at it . . . This is 2010
68 Post contains images ajd1992 : I always thought it was on the notes too. You can tell I live in a non-Euro country At the time there was a big discussion about it and it was decide
69 einsteinboricua : You guys (the euro-using ones) seem to forget that the pre-euro economic conditions are not here anymore. Everything has gone up. I can say that a loa
70 MD11Engineer : I think there will happen one out of two possible outcomes: a) the Eurozone will become more integrated through a common economic and tax policy or b)
71 mham001 : That is a common misconception or sometimes, an attempt at history revision. While Clinton did sign the budgets to reign in spending (kicking and scr
72 lewis : Haha, it would have been nice, I find notes boring, they all have some windows and bridges in the back.
73 connies4ever : Whether an R or D Congress, the fact is that the Clinton administration produced a series of surpluses. Neither Bush administration, to my recollecti
74 babybus : It definately stems from there. I believe he feels he is leading public opinion but I guess he'll end up chasing it, as always. Prices go up, just lo
75 mham001 : There is no dispute there. My comments were to this blanket statement: "Ideological footnote: it seems everywhere you look, conservatives are held ou
76 Baroque : That is your story and Connies interpretation is different. Just to help you on your way, what was the average deficit (as %of GDP) for the past 50 y
77 speedygonzales : *cough* £ *cough*
78 connies4ever : Thanks Alan. With our current Conservative government, with the short-term(2 years) 'stimulus program', we will have essentially undone the last 10 y
79 mham001 : Connies interpretation of Clintons role in reducing budget deficits is factually wrong. The man who gets credit is Newt Gingrich, speaker of the hous
80 Post contains links dxing : Wow, what a way to set up a mismatch. From 1960 to 2010 the democrats controlled the White House for 22 out of the 50 years correspondingly the GOP c
81 Baroque : All true, but I cannot help noticing you do not fess up what the average % deficit was for GOP POTUSes and Dem POTUSes. Having had to learn stats, I
82 NAV20 : At a guess- only because it's Sunday..........:-}
83 Post contains links OA260 : An interesting slant..... Ministers' secret joy at euro meltdown THE Government secretly welcomes the collapse of the euro even though publicly it is
84 Braybuddy : Which makes sense, given the recession. I remember some years back there was talk that the currency could possibly go as high as $1.35. This was seen
85 MD11Engineer : During the last few years there were complaints from the EZB and various departments of economics within the Eurozone that the Euro was overvalued du
86 OA260 : I guess some people win some people loose. For me the higher the Euro against the Pound the better , 70% of my spending is in the UK. Mind you even a
87 Braybuddy : There's talk of it possibly going down to $1.10 before stabliising. If it gets that low the Americans and Chinese will probably be forced to interven
88 Post contains images OA260 : Even if it was economically viable the Irish wouldnt do it , they are still making bomb factories along the border
89 dxing : I didn't bother because no President, whether D or R can drive a budget. That is the responsibility of the Congress, specifically the House of Repres
90 Post contains images Dreadnought : Just keep in mind guys that we are on a path to a serious mess here - Greece is just the first one to get there. The age of government pensions MUST E
91 Post contains links TheCommodore : Interesting article on the situation over there in the EU. Boy would I love to be a fly on the wall in those meetings !! "EU leaders find it difficult
92 OA260 : That will always be the problem in the EU and the Euro , too many cooks in the kitchen who want to make their own dish.
93 TheCommodore : My sentiments exactly. I don't think it will ever work.
94 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : You cannot make an artificial entity work indefinitely. I remember the time when 6 was already a problem in the 60's. Then having 12 countries became
95 speedygonzales : I think I'll take my news about the € from pretty much anyone but british europhobes. They'll say anything to keep attention away from the £.
96 Post contains images OzGlobal : With such fine Murdochian rhetoric, we won't expect much constructive contribution from the tax haven to the south.
97 lewis : I find more problems with the EMU than the EU. EU by itself was a sound idea. And the Euro is as artificial as any other currency around, once you un
98 connies4ever : I really do think there was than just Newt involved in getting to the budget that was passed. Generally speaking (insofar as I understand it) creatin
99 MD11Engineer : It is wellknown that Murdoch doesn´t like the EU. His main beef is with the EU rules on monopolies, which prevent him from taking over whole country
100 Dreadnought : Input from the Executive is helpful, but not strictly necessary One thing I am curious about - Greece is part of the EU - an economic union. The US i
101 connies4ever : That's a very good point, actually. I don't think California is in immediate danger of default, but they are in a corner. I can't say about Michigan'
102 Baroque : Sound strategy there speedyG!! That is a more than reasonable conclusion. I was under the impression that this had in effect already happened as UK a
103 newark777 : Getting bailed out after losing money through bad bets in private markets is quite different than bailing out a country. That will happen when the gr
104 Post contains links Baroque : What a quaint suggestion. Had you not heard? For example the UK: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...t-of-the-bank-bailout-1833830.html £850bn: o
105 Post contains links OA260 : Numbers crunched Who is most in debt? Where is unemployment soaring? Find out in our eurozone crisis guide http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1015000
106 Derico : If that is a true map, then what is all this talk about Spain's debt? It seems quite low compared to the rest. Spain has severe real economic stress,
107 Post contains images dxing : According to our Constitution the federal government is specifically responsible for the common defense of the States. Entitlement spending will have
108 Derico : You mean can or can't? Of course it is up to Americans to decide what to cut, and you can choose to cut government services or benefits in order to l
109 dxing : I mean that Constitutionally the federal government cannot abandon the common defense of the States. Defense spending comes in at a distant second to
110 Derico : Of course, as everywhere else. But realistically, the general population will not be too eager to ax billions in ''general welfare'' and leave the mi
111 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Thank you for posting this. Nobody dares to tell the truth. The reason is stated here loud and clear. Some countries refuse to keep up with the conve
112 Baroque : Oh that is a surprise. By difference I can only suppose you think that free market nostrums worked well. Batten down the hatches. There are some quit
113 Post contains links OA260 : Thousands of French take to the streets Hundreds of thousands of workers marched in cities across France to protest over government plans to raise the
114 Post contains images lewis : Glad that the focus is shifted from the lazy Greeks to the French. Those lazy French should go back to work
115 MD11Engineer : Most likely public sector employees. According to a French colleague, there exists a wide split vetween French public sector employees, who enjoy inf
116 OzGlobal : It will take more than your comment to shift focus off Greece. The difference is that the French PAY their taxes and quite happily, because they get
117 lewis : Exactly the same in Greece. This though didn't stop other Europeans from describing all Greeks in a borderline insulting way for months now (lazy, wi
118 Post contains links OA260 : Not really Greece is settling down now and yesterday it was Spain in the limelight. Very true but if you look at the history of France over the last
119 MD11Engineer : First, most of France´s airport / railway / port workers are government employees, who are used to high salaries, early pensions and perks. Secondly
120 OA260 : And what about the Farmers? Are they state employee's also? Wait and see what pans out over the next while and then you will realise that many EU cou
121 MD11Engineer : The famers will receive a hard reset as well. I´m living in a rural village, where 100 years ago almost everybody was a farmer (except maybe the vil
122 Jacobin777 : ..and Spain's credit rating gets downgraded by Fitch. ""The downgrade reflects Fitch's assessment that the process of adjustment to a lower level of p
123 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Spain's debt downgraded? ----> the Euro takes a dive. Who said the Euro was a good idea? I don't think we have seen anything yet. It's going to get
124 Post contains images Braybuddy : A drop in the euro's value isn't necessarily a bad thing: exporters are now rubbing their hands in glee. They'll sell more goods abroad, which in tur
125 einsteinboricua : Greece is far from settling down. It's battering down the hatches, so to speak, but it's far from settling. For starters, we don't know if the bailou
126 Braybuddy : In Ireland's case, a lower euro is a shot in the arm for the economy. Not only do exporters benefit, the country benefits as tourisml increases and t
127 oa260 : I think if you re read the responses and what they were in relation too my comment was with regards to media coverage and strikes not the scale of th
128 Asturias : I'm honestly getting really tired of the Anglosphere press and their doomsday scenarios. Did the anglo-press do anything but verbally masturbate any d
129 Post contains links Braybuddy : Interesting article on the single currency in a recent edition of Time Magazine, and food for thought for its detractors: http://www.time.com/time/mag
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