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What Do You Think? Fraternities/Sororities  
User currently offlinekstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 745 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6568 times:

I'm doing a project on the perception of fraternities and sororities on a national and international level for a final paper that is due in a class I am taking at school. I was wondering how any of you felt about them, whether you are a member of one or not, and what do you think about it?

I saw the topic come up in a thread today, so I thought it would be a perfect opportunity to garner some opinions.

I am in a fraternity at K-State, Delta Sigma Phi. It's been an awesome experience so far, and wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

What are your opinions?

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

I am a Lambda Chi Alpha brother. I have mixed feelings. The beauracracy of the fraternity structure turns into a sorority bitch fest during chapter meetings. We ran an extremely tight and efficient ship, but there was so much internal bitching. Contrary to the "uber-masculine" image fraternities portray, a lot of homosexual behavior goes on behind the scenes. It's not just my fraternity either, it was rampant in others. I will say that I'm closer to my fraternity brothers who are gay than those who are not. In fact, that's about all I keep up with. It was annoying too, because all of the "closet members" knew who was gay and who wasn't. And we were ALL afraid of getting outed, yet continued "activities." It really just turned into a lot of anxiety and drama.

Rituals are intense, at least the LXA one. Ours lasted from about 4PM on a Friday afternoon to about 8AM the next morning. It was exhausting.

Personally, I liked being a part of the parties, but I can't say that I developed some unmatched brotherhood or connection with anyone. There's nothing I wouldn't do for a regular person that I would do for one of my fraternity brothers. It just never got that close for me. Other than the closet gay stuff and the ritual, there's nothing I share with any of them that has made me gravitate towards them any more than my regular friends at 30 years of age.

It's fun, but I've not really benefited from it.

On a side note, we went through a lot of sanctioned expulsions of members for underground hazing. LXA has a very strict anti-hazing policy. I was on a panel which helped with expulsions. I was also questioned before the panel for "supicious activities" in relation to hazing. However, I was "cleared" I guess you could say, and I went on to be High Kappa or what you would call, "Pledge Trainer." I was High Kappa for a year and I swore I'd never do it again. I'm not one to be an asshole and tough on people and walk the fine line between hazing and just commanding respect. I'm far more easy going than that.

You also have nationals coming in from time to time, telling you what you can and cannot do. And the amount of insurance a fraternity house has to carry these days is immense, that it almost breaks the entire house if it is not filled to maximum occupancy. The house is quite political as well. Depending on your decisions in whatever post you are in, the masses can turn on you in an instant. Drinking is very heavy in fraternities, however, drugs were not where I was.

Overall, it caused a lot of anxiety, and redirected my time away from academics a touch too much. I did fine in school, but I might have absorbed more had I not had the "fraternity" experience.

KA is now kicked off campus, along with Figi. KE is on probation as well as LXA. They are becoming more of a nuisance than what their original purpose was.

In the South, Fraternities and Sororities are a HUGE part of college culture, more so than the north. I like the old traditions of giving your letters to a girl, going to the sororities and singing to the girls, you know, all that 1950's stuff that's been tradition. It's neat. The theme parties are fun, the cookouts, the lake trips, etc. Yes, I had fun...it's just mixed feelings.


UAL

[Edited 2010-05-24 16:27:10]

[Edited 2010-05-24 16:43:15]

User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9413 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6506 times:
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Disclaimer: I don't automatically dislike individuals in frats/sororities. No offense intended to anyone.

I was never in a frat, and I'm not a fan of them or sororities at all.

(As a side note, why do people tell me I'm not supposed to shorten it to "frat"? The one "explanation" I was given was, basically, "you wouldn't call your country a c***".....not much of an explanation)

I went to a couple rush events (or whatever they're called) freshman year. The guys seemed cool, and some of my friends were interested as well.

Then when I decided not to pledge, all the frat guys basically completely stopped even saying hello if we passed each other on campus. I didn't know what to make of that at the time!

I'm extremely glad that I didn't decide to pledge. Even though the Greek system is quite a big part of student life at USC, I never felt like I was missing out; I actually felt like I gained by not pledging.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
Contrary to the "uber-masculine" image fraternities portray, a lot of homosexual behavior goes on behind the scenes. It's not just my fraternity either, it was rampant in others. I will say that I'm closer to my fraternity brothers who are gay than those who are not. In fact, that's about all I keep up with. It was annoying too, because all of the "closet members" knew who was gay and who wasn't. And we were ALL afraid of getting outed, yet continued "activities." It really just turned into a lot of anxiety and drama.

Interesting tidbit:

One of the guys on the ultimate frisbee team at school (on which I played) was in Lambda Chi. He ended up DP'ing at some point late sophomore or early junior year, I think. I asked him why, and he said that the frat had made a rule that brothers could only bring girls as dates to their invites, and that this rule was deliberately to prevent gay frat brothers from bringing guys.

I gained a hell of a lot of respect for him for doing that.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6485 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
One of the guys on the ultimate frisbee team at school (on which I played) was in Lambda Chi.

Fraternities are ultimately homophobic no matter how many members are actually gay. Hence the reason none of us came out while active. The first one to be the most open about it, was someone who was kicked out. I asked to be placed on Alumni Status following my service as High Kappa for the particular reason that I could formally come out without, what I thought at the time, would be a compromising event to the fraternity. "Former Pledge Trainer is Gay" - I could just hear it running through the Greek Community at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. And man, when I did come out, it was like wildfire.

The rest of the brothers came out after college, or became as inactive of a member as they could if they started going to gay bars, etc., while in college.

I know of no rule during my time that prevented anyone from being gay joining, however, membership in ALL fraternities is completely decided upon by the fraternal body, not by any regulation. In my opinion, no fraternity in the South will actively recruit a gay fraternity member.

Fraternities, especially in the South, are notoriously white as well. However, most individuals of color have their own fraternities and sororities that you find no white members. AKA and APA are two examples of all black fraternities and sororities. As I was leaving, we initiated our first Indian member and first Hispanic Member. Albeit, very white acting ones. If I can even say that without sounding racist, but I'll just call a spade a spade and tell it like it was. It's interesting how the collective mind works vs. the individual.

A fraternity is it's own microcosm of raging hormones just freed from the confines of a familial home, and thrust into independence infused with alcohol, sex, and relaxed inhibitions while trying to turn into an adult as well and filling adult political roles within the fraternal body.


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2689 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

I don't know if I should join a fraternity. I just don't see the point of joining a club where people are your "brothers"...


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinedetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

My experience as a fraternity member @ Purdue has generally been positive. As the first person said, there is a lot of drama and bitch fests that go on, but lets face it, you cant expect to live with 50-100 people and have no conflicts. As for being "gay", we have 2 active brothers who are gay, and apart from a few comments here and there, they dont face much discrimination. They both love it there, and told us they were gay when they were pledging.
Ultimately. the fraternity experience is what you make of it. You could help out the house and be a good brother, or you could lock yourself in your room all day, and be anti-social and not get much out of the experience.
I do however, love the fact that at any time of the day, I can find brothers willing to do just about anything- stripclubs, casinos, bars, being destructive. etc.

Hope you get the point.



Boiler Up!!!
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

My buddy is a member of Theta Chi. I've been to a few of their parties. Other than throwing a hell of a bash at halloween and New Years. I dont see what else they do besides live in a large house that may not be up to safety codes and drink a lot. Don't get me wrong, they're all great guys and they all look out for each other, but I don't get the whole point past that.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6180 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6427 times:

I did not understand them when I was in school and I don't understand them now. While in school I worked with Ms. AZD (the pretty girl sorority at ERAU) and she was always bitching and complaining about her sisters, and whom she wanted to backstab next or what fraternity guy she had slept with the night before. People had to pay big bucks to call a girl like that their sister (hmmmmm), you can get that for free. I didn't feel like it was for me while I was in school.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6427 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 4):
I don't know if I should join a fraternity. I just don't see the point of joining a club where people are your "brothers"...

The term "brother" or "sister" in relation to the Greek system is usually said, "He is my Fraternity Brother" or "She is my Sorority Sister." It in no way denotes some sort of relation. You will often hear the word brother and sister used in many social circles. Particularly in organizations and Churches. Many pastors will start a sermon with, "My brothers and sisters in Christ." It just shows how you are all connected by the secret rituals and beliefs of the fraternity.

What I do like about the fraternity are the secret meanings of different greek letters and the secrecy of the ritual with all of the brothers worldwide. Something that you will find is that almost all of our fraternity brothers, no matter what fraternity it is, hold the ritual as sacred and secret.

UAL


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18713 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

I was never in a frat and never interested.

An interesting alternative is co-ops. They are very different. They are student-run, usually student-owned houses that provide a communal living arrangement that reduces costs while providing a frat-like social environment without all the social pressure.

Over the decades, the frat thing got so out of hand that some universities de-housed them while others placed very severe restrictions on them. That's what happens when you let a bunch of young men who pride themselves on their masculinity run off with an organization; it gets out of hand.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):

Fraternities, especially in the South, are notoriously white as well. However, most individuals of color have their own fraternities and sororities that you find no white members. AKA and APA are two examples of all black fraternities and sororities.

That's the other problem I have with them. The idea of raced-based greek organizations makes no sense to me at all.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6418 times:

Quoting kstateinALB (Thread starter):
I was wondering how any of you felt about them

I will say as a whole, I dislike them strongly.

I've been in close contact with several of these organizations one way or another, and my ex is a Delta Gamma (this was before I knew anything about sorostitutes    )

At any rate, I hate how Greeks look down on the GDIs (god damned independents, aka non-Greek people aka normal people) and they think they are way above everybody else. And I've never seen so much hypocrisy in my life.

Many Greek organizations like to portray a mature, respected and well behaved image to outsiders and to recruit, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The things my ex said about DG were down right sickening. They made a fundraiser once supposedly to help blind children. What did they do with the money? They bought Gucci bags for the whole sorority.   Her initiation consisted of her and all the rushees standing naked in front of other sorority members and they would look for imperfections on their bodies and circle them with a sharpie marker, she later on did the same to her future "littles". Several of her sisters prostituted themselves to the fraternities. And a bunch of other disturbing crap I won't bother remembering. And she told me all of this as if she was proud of it. To this date I don't know whether I want to believe it or not   

Greek organizations are one of the few that I know first hand hit all the stereotypes down to the letter. Heck, there's evidence all over the internet proving it. There's only one kid that I respect somewhat from a fraternity, and he doesn't have the whole "I art better than thou" thing going on at all, but his tales of mischief, vandalism, frequent date rapes with and without roofies or other drugs, and general wrecking havoc from his fraternity are quite sickening as well.

In short, If I ran a university, I'd straight up ban Greek organizations.    I don't see anything useful coming out of them.

[Edited 2010-05-24 18:07:56]

[Edited 2010-05-24 18:13:13]

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
The idea of raced-based greek organizations makes no sense to me at all.

I don't think that anything is necessarily "Race-Based" on paper, even the black and hispanic fraternities and sororities, but the "group think" gets very race-based. If AKA and APA where constitutional about it, I don't think they'd be allowed to exist on campus.

Again, however, the entire Rush process is completely based on votes of the majority.

Another thing you are given access to during rush, is your rushee's academic records. You can get "cut" simply for having a lower than average GPA. Standards for different houses vary. LXA's was rather high at my University.

Rush is another experience I pretty much hated. This is the whining and dining part on the fraternity. If they want you, you know it. You get invited to everything, they comp things for you, like your liquor, strippers, etc. They feel you out, and they give you a bid. If you do not accept their bid but another houses, pretty much expect to be hated by the house you turned down. I got bid by 3 houses. Lambda Chi Alpha, Kappa Sigma, and Sigma Phi Epsilon, and those were my choices in that order. Kappa Sigma turned it up toward the end of rush because they knew I was drifting toward LXA. Their pledge trainer was working on intrafraternity council during on Bid day. You get a piece of paper handed to you with your bids from different houses, and you hand them back in with your accepted bid to the Intrafraternity Council. I tried to find someone else to hand it to, but he came up to me and took it. He looked at me an said, "Fuck off." And ever since then, I've had a fraternity Fatwah on my ass from Kappa Sigma.

It was pretty awful for me for about a year as my roommate was a Kappa Sigma. Didn't have the best bid night.

UAL


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2689 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6362 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 8):
The term "brother" or "sister" in relation to the Greek system is usually said, "He is my Fraternity Brother" or "She is my Sorority Sister." It in no way denotes some sort of relation. You will often hear the word brother and sister used in many social circles. Particularly in organizations and Churches. Many pastors will start a sermon with, "My brothers and sisters in Christ." It just shows how you are all connected by the secret rituals and beliefs of the fraternity.

I am well aware that meaning does not imply that anyone is your real brother or sister and that Churches use similar wording. However, unlike a church, where brothers and sisters congregate to pray, what is the point of a fraternity/sorority?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9413 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6352 times:
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Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
One of the guys on the ultimate frisbee team at school (on which I played) was in Lambda Chi.

Fraternities are ultimately homophobic no matter how many members are actually gay. Hence the reason none of us came out while active.

I have no doubt.

I should, however, have mentioned that they guy who DP'd was straight as an arrow. But he couldn't remain a member of the frat with that sort of crap going on.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
As I was leaving, we initiated our first Indian member and first Hispanic Member. Albeit, very white acting ones. If I can even say that without sounding racist, but I'll just call a spade a spade and tell it like it was. It's interesting how the collective mind works vs. the individual.

That ain't racist in my book.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
A fraternity is it's own microcosm of raging hormones just freed from the confines of a familial home, and thrust into independence infused with alcohol, sex, and relaxed inhibitions while trying to turn into an adult as well and filling adult political roles within the fraternal body.

That's probably the best description of Greek life I've ever read.

Quoting chepos (Reply 7):
People had to pay big bucks to call a girl like that their sister (hmmmmm), you can get that for free.

That's what always puzzled me (well, one of the many things). I never felt the need to pay to have a group of friends.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 11):
He looked at me an said, "Fuck off." And ever since then, I've had a fraternity Fatwah on my ass from Kappa Sigma.

It was pretty awful for me for about a year as my roommate was a Kappa Sigma. Didn't have the best bid night.

Ugh. Makes me hate them even more.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinepdxtriple7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

I was in a fraternity and had a good experience. Greek life really depends on where you go to school. If you wanted to be social at my school, you really couldn't be a GDI. It's not like the greek community looked down on you (my frat was at the bottom of the social pole), but you had to be a part of some organization -- whether it was drama club or a selective living house. You also got screwed on housing if you weren't in a frat (sororities didn't have housing). Ultimately, I changed a lot during my four years. However, the support of the brotherhood was invaluable when you needed it.

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Greek organizations are one of the few that I know first hand hit all the stereotypes down to the letter. Heck, there's evidence all over the internet proving it. There's only one kid that I respect somewhat from a fraternity, and he doesn't have the whole "I art better than thou" thing going on at all, but his tales of mischief, vandalism, frequent date rapes with and without roofies or other drugs, and general wrecking havoc from his fraternity are quite sickening as well.

Wow, I can honestly say that nothing like that went on in my fraternity. We didn't look down on anyone, and our philanthropic activities were heavily audited, AND required by the University. Having a strong Intra-Fraternity council at a University is extremely important to maintaining any form of integrity with Fraternities and Sororities.

Edit: I can remember doing one bad thing. We stole the HUGE Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission sign from Harry Hines Blvd. in Dallas. Now, that required some damn skill on a highly lit busy street! It was the size of a Suburban!

Much of what goes on depends on the University, and often times, the demographic make-up of the University. SMU is located in Highland Park in Dallas, and typically consists of a fairly well-off student body. Academics are becoming increasingly selective and prestigious at SMU. While I will admit every fraternity or sorority has their assholes, bitches, and sluts, most of them were decent humans.

Another thing that gets passed along to mainstream society about Fraternities and Sororities is the myths and legends of what they do to their pledges. Often times they are blown out of proportion. I was so scared someone was going to make me to an "Elephant Walk." But as it turns out, it doesn't exist. I was scared I was going to get paddled, but as it turns out, it doesn't exist. Paddles exist, but not the paddling. These legends and myths are part of what made it fun, and then spreading these legends and myths make it fun, even if they are not true.

True instances of hazing at any decent University with a decent Intra-Fraternity Council will have a close eye and ear as to what is actually happening in each house. Any type of excessive hazing, and that includes mental abuse as well, was not tolerated where I went to school.

Greek life was huge at SMU. I actually attended Boston University before going to SMU, and what's funny is I wasn't in a fraternity there, but the Lambda Chi Alpha's were founded at BU. Greek life was merely a social outlet and an opportunity to constantly meet a ton of people. Many people meet their future wives and husbands in Greek life. Nobody I knew looked down on anyone who wasn't greek. We simply just did not ever have a chance to really mingle with anyone but people in the Greek system outside of class. Officers were at the house almost everyday if they didn't live there.

I liked it, but I could also live without it. I just want there to be a fare opinion about what goes on. Often times you see people outside the Greek system stereotype the Greek system based on very little evidence.

That said, I'm totally looking down on you right now Fly2HMO. I'm pretty much better than you are you GDI.  

[Edited 2010-05-24 20:19:26]

User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6278 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
a lot of homosexual behavior goes on behind the scenes.

Details damnit! We need details!

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
One of the guys on the ultimate frisbee team at school (on which I played) was in Lambda Chi. He ended up DP'ing at some point late sophomore or early junior year, I think. I asked him why, and he said that the frat had made a rule that brothers could only bring girls as dates to their invites, and that this rule was deliberately to prevent gay frat brothers from bringing guys.

   A straight guy automatically becomes hotter in my eyes when they are willing to take a stand against anti-gay discrimination.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
I was never in a frat and never interested.

Neither was I. It was simply not a world that I wanted to belong to. And, given the reports of homophobia, I'm glad I was not involved. So many of us are coming to grips with our sexuality in college, having to deal with a homophobic environment on a daily basis isn't exactly conducive to accepting yourself for who you are.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinekstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6261 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
In short, If I ran a university, I'd straight up ban Greek organizations.    I don't see anything useful coming out of them.

I respect your opinion Fly2HMO. One of the biggest things about Greek life is this:

Quoting pdxtriple7 (Reply 14):
Greek life really depends on where you go to school.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 15):
True instances of hazing at any decent University with a decent Intra-Fraternity Council will have a close eye and ear as to what is actually happening in each house.

For example, here at K-State, we have an excellent Intrafraternity Council and Panhellenic Council. They set the rules and standards to even have a chapter here. So, many of the stories of hazing and this and that are regulated by those councils, and if anything happens, it's usually a trike for the chapter, whether true or not.

Greeks on our campus population tally to around 20% or so. For major leadership positions, it tallies to over 60%. There are some excellent chapters that focus on leadership and getting involved which take away the "Animal House" perception of what a Greek chapter is. That was a main reason as to why I joined DSP.

Sorry for rambling. I just wanted to add a couple things to the discussion.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6246 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 15):

Wow, I can honestly say that nothing like that went on in my fraternity. We didn't look down on anyone, and our philanthropic activities were heavily audited, AND required by the University. Having a strong Intra-Fraternity council at a University is extremely important to maintaining any form of integrity with Fraternities and Sororities.

I must say the several Greek chapters I had the (misfortune?) of hanging out with did have the reputation for being the worse out there. DG's are known as the Dick Garages for a reason, my ex's chapter at Kent State in OH was pretty bad, and they would always whore it out with the Sigma Chis, which were known to be pretty rowdy as well. Honestly though, Kent State as a whole is known for being a very messy school, Greek groups notwithstanding.

The Greek groups at my school (ERAU) however weren't too bad, but only because the school itself is tiny compared to a state school, though the Greeks could be very annoying at times. Some of the frat boys would always be push me into joining but I always refused, politely at first, but after telling them 3 times no thanks, then I had to cuss my way out of it. And I did know of one of the fraternities having the bright idea into going into a biker-bar in PRC (a REAL bikers bar) and they tried to get cute with the biker patrons. Lets just say one of the kids got stabbed. Missed his heart by an inch. I used to work with the guy.   

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 15):
That said, I'm totally looking down on you right now Fly2HMO. I'm pretty much better than you are you GDI.

It's ok. I'm a pilot, I look down on all you poor bastards confined to the ground when I'm out and about flying. And then, the only people that can actually look down on me at that point are the astronauts in the ISS   

[Edited 2010-05-24 22:06:23]

[Edited 2010-05-24 22:06:52]

User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6228 times:
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Generally, i hate them mainly for their exclusionary tactics. I always believed that the only criteria for membership should be "do you have a pulse?" I also hated the notion of rush, i.e. having to prove yourself to them as if they're some superior entity who are allowed to pass judgement on your existence. As people i knew in Civil Air Patrol found out very quickly, i don't just respect rank, i respect the whole officer. When i was in school being a Senior when I was a freshman didn't automatically suggest i should respect them just because they happen to be a senior or they happen to be student body president or captain of the football team, it doesn't work that way with me. I respect individuals not titles and I don't grovel to people just because they think i should or have an aritifically inflated view of themselves or their position. The funny thing was, a friend of mine used to tell me i didn't like fraternities because i wouldn't be able to get into one. that was until i told him i was sigma chi legacy thanks to my mother's cousin's husband, so as long as i provided a letter of recommendation from him they'd have to admit me regardless of whether they wanted me or not. That shut my friend up rather quickly.


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlinemhockey31091 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6210 times:
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I am a brother of Pi Kappa Alpha, I can honestly say that Fraternity and Sorority life is only what you make it. Yes there is tons of behind the scenes bitching. We also like to run a tight ship, but even with one brother in the chapter room that doesn't take it seriously things can get out of hand rapidly. I am a new initiate to the Fraternity so I only have a little bit of judgment on the whole thing.

When we are recruiting we practice questions and answers. We are taught to dodge the question and divert the potentials attention from his original question and spin it in a positive way. I learned all about marketing techniques in high school so this wasn't new to me. But I felt bad when potentials constantly asked about money and how much it costs, I always wanted to tell them if the money is tight, don't do it, it really isn't worth that much to be able to call someone brother.

The social aspect is very fun, but really that is all there is to it. Like many people say your honestly just paying for friends.


User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3292 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6098 times:
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My experience with fraternities and sororities is purely as an outsider. I went to Lehigh University, where 40% of the students join greek life, so it's a huge part of the social scene there.

Freshman year, almost all the parties I went to were at fraternity houses. I had many friends who rushed and pledged, but I got to Lehigh as a non-drinker, so I wasn't partying hard enough for rushing to appeal to me. I fully admit making that decision based solely on the reputation frats have in the USA.

Having said all the above, here are the things I experience/noticed/heard:
1) Life in a fraternity/sorority affords you certain academic advantages. The fraternities/sororities tend to incestualize (for lack of a better word) their academics. For example, many houses will take in students with similar majors, and all their work is passed down from "generation" to "generation". I had many frat guys in my engineering classes who would come into exams with the same set of old homeworks and, more often than not, this would give them a huge advantage the rest of us didn't have. Mind you, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, or (necessarily) unfair. Kudos to them for having this available.

2) Life in a fraternity/sorority can be a positive OR negative experience. Fraternities are brotherhoods, afterall. However, I saw many occasions where an entire house would turn on one brother for a mistake, or an insult, or something else entirely. This always struck me as very odd since, for a system that preaches brotherhood and trust, I would expect forgiveness to come hand-in-hand.

3) Life in a fraternity/sorority can limit your social life. The fraternities or sororities all have "definitions" that are associated with their members. Whether it's an academic status, a sport they all do, a creed/race/color they all are, or even a drug they all take (we had the cocaine sorority, for example), each house does tend to have a trend in its members. And the members that choose to keep their freshman friends, or expand in other activities (orchestras, sports, clubs, etc) do just fine socially. But, at least from what I saw at Lehigh, the vast majority of these students end up in the cliques that encompass their own house. I know far, far too many people who would ONLY hang out with brothers/sisters outside of classes, and would spend weekends splitting their time between the on-campus house and off-campus spin-off houses. And they'd never do anything else.

My comments are, I'll admit, one person's experience. And I'd like to think I'm unbiased. I don't regret not joining one, but I often find myself wondering if my life would be different if I had. I'm certain my college experience would have been. In my time at Lehigh there was one fraternity I was always welcome at, and there was another one I was indirectly banned from for sophomore, junior, and senior year for a completely unreasonable reason. So I saw the welcoming side and the "much-too-prideful" side of these houses.

That's my two cents.

TIS



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User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6122 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6062 times:

Do fraternities/sororities even exist outside of North America ? In France we have students associations, but nothing like a fraternity. There will be the "bureau des élèves" (students bureau) that will organize parties and the like, but no hazing, girls and boys in the same bureau, and only people interested in organizing things in it. There will be political and religious associations, unions, etc. No particular housing accommodation, no greek letter.

In fact the thing I did that most resemble fraternities is scouting, I guess.



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User currently offlineiairallie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6027 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
I will say as a whole, I dislike them strongly.

I was wondering how long it would take you to chime in considering that even on non-greek related threads you find a way to bring up your hatred of sorority women.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
I don't see anything useful coming out of them.

I am a Kappa Kappa Gamma and I developed many useful skills through my affiliation with that organization. Even as an alumna there are lots of opportunities for me to develop professional and life skills.

I learned great interviewing and networking skills through the rush/recruitment process, events and activities.. We did a lot of philanthropic fundraisers (and the proceeds ALWAYS went to the intended charities) and hands on volunteer work. I still love doing volunteer work. We were more involved on campus and in our communities than GDI's, most of us held student leadership positions in other organizations as well because we wanted to make something of our time on campus. My sisters have gone on to do amazing things since their graduations and their sorority affiliation was a huge launching point for them. My experiences as a Greek helped me develop confidence and poise.

My sorority offers career networking and development opportunities for students and alumna. We have a fully funded leadership institute which has online material for all members, traveling trainers, and an annual leadership bootcamp.

I developed some great lasting friendships. I loved living in my sorority house. Those two years were really fun.

Sure there were unofficial fraternity parties that could get pretty wild but I went to ski team, football, soccer and baseball parties that were a lot crazier as well as some random house parties that we completely insane. Greek letter organizations get a bum rap for things that college kids from all walks of life get involved with. College kids screw up sometimes being in a fraternity or sorority doesn't make you immune to that.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 13):
never felt the need to pay to have a group of friends.

That old chestnut. You aren't paying for friends any more than you are if you pay fees to join an intramural sports team or other campus organization. You are paying for the stuff you do with those friends. And no amount of money is going to get you friends even if you join. If you are an unlikable bastard you may get in but you won't have any friends.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 15):
While I will admit every fraternity or sorority has their assholes, bitches, and sluts, most of them were decent humans.

Ding! Even though I was a double legacy I didn't even think about affiliating my freshman year. I lived in the dorms for about 2 years and my sorority house for 2 years. Nothing happened in my sorority house that I didn't see living in the dorms in fact there was more bad behavior in the dorms because they didn't have to worry about how their behavior reflected on their organization.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 15):
Wow, I can honestly say that nothing like that went on in my fraternity.

Ditto nothing like that ever happened in my sorority. Heck we got in big trouble for just joking about hazing while hanging out one night and we didn't even do anything.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 18):
It's ok. I'm a pilot, I look down on all you poor bastards confined to the ground when I'm out and about flying.

Oh did someone start paying you to fly? Cause if they didn't I'm as much of a pilot as you are. In fact as a working flight attendant I actually get paid to be airborne.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 19):
i was sigma chi legacy thanks to my mother's cousin's husband, so as long as i provided a letter of recommendation from him they'd have to admit me regardless of whether they wanted me or not.

Ah you are not a legacy. A legacy is only a direct relative. Father, Grandfather, Brother. Cousins don't count and mother's cousin's husbands really, really don't count. AND even if you are a legacy or a multiple legacy (like me) they don't have to admit you. They only give you priority consideration, they do not have to extend you a bid. Plenty of legacies get turned down. Especially in certain areas where they have more legacies than openings.

Quoting mhockey31091 (Reply 20):
I can honestly say that Fraternity and Sorority life is only what you make it.

So true. Like anything in life you get out of it what you put into it. I put a lot in I got a lot out.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6027 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 22):
Do fraternities/sororities even exist outside of North America ?

Not as far as I know. Not to the same degree or type as in the US at least. I know there's some Greek-ish groups in Canada but that's about it.

If anything there's some very tightly nit cliques at many schools worldwide. In my high school in Mexico there was this clique of supposedly really tough and bad-ass kids (aka d-bags) that acted very much like they were in a frat, except it was free.


25 UAL747 : My sister is a KKG. My mom was a Tri Delt. My sister was double legacy as a Tri Delt, but since my mom's stint at the University, they've pretty much
26 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Ah, but if it ain't my dear misandrist archnemesis, I was wondering how long it would take for you to rat me out In all seriousness though, I did get
27 vikkyvik : Fair enough. However, if I join an intramural team, I'm joining it because I want to play the sport and/or meet others who do. Plus, the intramural t
28 UAL747 : You have, to pull a quote from you, a quite the "I art better than thou" attitude when it comes to anyone in a Sorority or Fraternity. I mean, just c
29 iairallie : Nope. No reason for me to deny it cauuuuuuuse I'msohappythatiamauofutahkappagamma! That's pretty nifty I'll let it count. Yep I did
30 gatorfan : I don't like or dislike them. I simply don't understand why people feel the need to pay for friendship. Ultimately, they're like a match.com for peop
31 avek00 : Surely you jest, right? Many fraternities and sororities had explicit race- and religion-based admissions policies on the books for years (or very ne
32 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Well, lets do the math, what's worse: me looking down on pretty much just the Greeks, or the Greeks looking down on the GDIs aka the rest of the worl
33 pdxtriple7 : Just cough up the typical line of people who don't know much about fraternities or sororities... You do realize that events -- some that even benefit
34 Fly2HMO : Hardly. The vast majority of Greeks, at least while in college, rarely step out of cliques.
35 kstateinALB : That's a very broad assessment you are making right there. What kinds of cliques are you talking about? Are you talking about cliques that form in ea
36 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Perhaps, but certainly applied to everything I saw/heard. I was one of the few GDIs that most of the Sig Chis and DGs seemed to trust and I was invit
37 kstateinALB : But would you say that most college students are at some point involved in some sort of clique that they discover while in college? If not the Greek
38 Jpax : Good man! Lambda Chi Alpha, Beta Nu Zeta here!
39 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Perhaps. Not so much at my school though. At my school, the cliques were really broad. It was mostly the pilots, the engineers, the military, and the
40 UAL747 : Gamma Sigma Zeta!
41 iairallie : If I join a greek organization it's because I want to participate in the activities that they are involved with and/or meet others who do. I'm really
42 vikkyvik : To be fair, it was in response to a similarly broad assessment - that greek members are more social. Which I certainly don't agree with at all. It's
43 ScarletHarlot : Fraternities and sororities aren't big in Canada. We had a sorority at my university but I only knew one person who joined it and she was looked at as
44 UAL747 : Those who want to be led, will be led no matter what type of organization it is. Within the Greek Systems are many positions of leadership. I was in
45 vikkyvik : I'm paying (or rather, I paid $20 once) for the ability to post, discuss, and learn about aviation in general. Doing that will by default bring me in
46 UAL747 : And look, those of us who have been in the greek system are just trying to point out that your impressions are most likely based on stereotypes. Just
47 Post contains images Ken777 : I was fortunate in that I joined a fraternity of "normal" people who were not overly impressed with themselves. To this day a couple of the Brothers a
48 Fly2HMO : That may be true. And what is also true, from what I've seen personally, is that the stereotypes are very accurate, at least with the trashier chapte
49 vikkyvik : My impressions are mostly based on what I saw when I was in college - at a college where the Greek system is a fairly prevalent thing. If those impre
50 Post contains images Fly2HMO : I just say I'm a Gamma Delta Iota*. That has confused many Greeks when they ask me what frat I'm in cuz they've never heard of it (GDI, if that wasn'
51 Post contains images kstateinALB : First, I want to say thanks to you all for your honest opinions. This has been a real help to me while writing and finishing this project for class. I
52 Post contains images UAL747 : My favorite restaurant in OKlahoma City is Pachinko Parlor. Leave my gift certificate for pick up by "Philip".....
53 Post contains images Fly2HMO : You see, that's what really grinds my gears with these groups. The concept (friendship, leadership, altruism, community service etc etc) is not bad a
54 UAL747 : If you knew that to be true and proven, then why didn't you report it to the proper authorities and have them audited? If you witnessed that, which y
55 ScarletHarlot : You have a good point, but here, we have an interest in common. There's a purpose behind joining here - to interact with people who like airplanes li
56 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Negative. I never claimed to witness that stuff in person. My ex told me all that stuff, as if she was proud of it too. But I have no evidence of her
57 UAL747 : Then a person of character should have reported it, especially if it was being flaunted. Now, if this was told to you 10 years after the fact, then p
58 Fly2HMO : Well what the heck am I supposed to do with no evidence? And some of the stuff did happen a year or two before she told me. As much as I didn't like
59 kstateinALB : Most? If this is just from your experience, then yeah, maybe. But I'd say that most is, again, a pretty bold statement. I'd say that most are the com
60 iairallie : It's banned and chapters that haze are seriously in the minority and will have their charters revoked if caught. It is taken reallly really really se
61 Post contains links Rabenschlag : Fraternities do exist in Germany, and as in the US, they are based on somewhat adverse initiation rituals. A number of fraternities in Germany do enga
62 falstaff : Both Universities I went to the greek thing was not very big at all. Central Missouri State had only about 10% greek when I was there. When I went to
63 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Too bad I didn't know about that organization at the time It's only as true as she makes it. I'm just the messenger. At any rate, like I said, I had
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