How much oil is underneath? What if it can never be shut off? Where do we go from here and what ramifications will occur in the offshore drilling industry?
Zentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3119 times:
Wait, weren't there several assertions by the right wing media in the US that this is all "natural" and no big deal? If that's the case, why even bother doing anything about it? Why not leave BP to lose as much oil as they see fit?
scrubbsywg From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1488 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3093 times:
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6): A russian "expert" proposed exactly that, at least according to the Bildzeitung!
from what i have read(not much, admittedly), it isn't too far fetched and apparently something they used to do in the USSR. They apparently did it 5 times to cap leaking wells.
PacNWJet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 841 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3091 times:
Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 7): Wait, weren't there several assertions by the right wing media in the US that this is all "natural" and no big deal? If that's the case, why even bother doing anything about it? Why not leave BP to lose as much oil as they see fit?
No one said that. As usual, nuanced observations were taken out of context, exaggerated, and made to sound extreme.
Zentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3054 times:
Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 10): No one said that. As usual, nuanced observations were taken out of context, exaggerated, and made to sound extreme.
Yeah right, you know very well that was the rhetoric coming out of the right wing media when this first broke and are shirk back and find a way to use it in order to attack your political opponent.
It's well known that Limbaugh himself said: "The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there. It’s natural. It’s as natural as the ocean water is."
That being the case, why do anything about it and why are conservatives harping on Obama? Sure, moderates and liberals are valid basis to criticize the president on this issue, but not conservatives.
okie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2410 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3054 times:
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Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 7892 posts, RR: 22 Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2968 times:
Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 11):
That being the case, why do anything about it and why are conservatives harping on Obama? Sure, moderates and liberals are valid basis to criticize the president on this issue, but not conservatives.
Because one conservative said something silly, you deny half the population their legitimacy to speak out? Some liberal you are - I thought Liberals were supposed to be all about tolerance and different opinions.
The administration owns this disaster now, by their own admission. From a week after the leak started, they kept thumping their chest saying that they are in charge, and more recently how BP cannot do anything without Washington's approval - as if that was somehow to reassure us. Similarly, the States' responses are also hogtied in Washington. Louisiana is STILL WAITING for approval to build barriers to shield their wetlands, delayed because of eco-mentalist concerns, until it's too late.
Obama should have given BP and Louisiana free reign to do whatever they saw fit and told them that accounts would be settled (including financial liability) once the complete investigation takes place and will take into account how much effort was put into stopping the spill ASAP.
Zentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2935 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14): Because one conservative said something silly, you deny half the population their legitimacy to speak out? Some liberal you are - I thought Liberals were supposed to be all about tolerance and different opinions.
Not just him, but it actually appears to be the general consensus amongst the right wing. You can even see it here on this board in terms of how vociferous the "damage control" or "this is no big deal" posts were.
Also, why are you assuming that I'm a liberal. I don't consider myself to be one at all, rather I'm just calling out what I see as hypocrisy and disingenuous arguments.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14): Obama should have given BP and Louisiana free reign to do whatever they saw fit and told them that accounts would be settled (including financial liability) once the complete investigation takes place and will take into account how much effort was put into stopping the spill ASAP.
My position has always been that it's BP's mess and for them to clean up. I'm speaking of the physical as well as financial mess. However, whenever the financial liability issue comes up, right wing attacks always seem to try and excuse that saying "we need oil". I'm not against offshore drilling, but for people to try and argue that corporations shouldn't be liable for the damages they cause is insane.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 7892 posts, RR: 22 Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2822 times:
Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 15):
Not just him, but it actually appears to be the general consensus amongst the right wing. You can even see it here on this board in terms of how vociferous the "damage control" or "this is no big deal" posts were.
Which might be somewhat true in the early days. Remember that the large part of the oil that pollutes our waters and washes up in clumps on the beach is natural seepage, and as this is particularly light crude, it could be expected that most of it would evaporate. Now we know that the leak is far, far bigger in size, beyond what nature can absorb.
Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 15): However, whenever the financial liability issue comes up, right wing attacks always seem to try and excuse that saying "we need oil".
We do need oil.
Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 15): I'm not against offshore drilling, but for people to try and argue that corporations shouldn't be liable for the damages they cause is insane
Can you tell me who has said that BP should not pay for the damage caused by this spill? I don't recall any instances.
What I don't like is the hatred that Obama seems to have for businesses. The latest target is Apple Computer. BP should pay for the damage - all of it, but not more.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2813 times:
Quoting JetsGo (Reply 19): What suggestions do you have to bring to the table then?
Perhaps like what they (BP) are suggesting they do now, and that is, cut the pipe and attach something to it and pump the oil to a boat on the surface.
Would have thought that that may have been the thing to do from the start ? rather than adding to the environmental disaster with more polluting rubbish.
No ?
[Edited 2010-05-29 19:53:38]
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2803 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2713 times:
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 21): Would have thought that that may have been the thing to do from the start ? rather than adding to the environmental disaster with more polluting rubbish.
Lead time but also there is a risk to removing the riser. It's a choke. When removed, the rate may increase and if the cap doesn't work, then things will be worse. At this point, I'm surprised the government authorised it.
The first relief well is past 12000ft, so hopefully not too long to go now.
Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2803 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2663 times:
Quoting bohica (Reply 24): Build a pipeline from the blowout to the nearest refinery and refine the oil.
I know it can't be that simple.
That's sort of what is being tried. The insert was an attempt to siphon off some of the oil to a drillship which would enable it to be sent to the refinery. That worked, but only partially. It got maybe a third of the oil at best, which is better than nothing to be sure. The next idea is one that will allow a much more complete recovery of the oil.
That is of course being done by producing to a ship and then shipping the oil to shore, rather than using a pipeline because pipelines take a long time to build.
I also get the impression that you don't quite appreciate that a lot of the difficulty has been successfully capturing the oil in the first place.
I'm still really disappointed about the coffer dam thing. I thought it was built to handle hydrates, but obviously the hydrate buildup exceeded its spec. This well is now being malicious.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16939 posts, RR: 57 Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2736 times:
Quoting flanker (Reply 5):
oh noes!!! hurry and buy carbon credits to offset this disaster!!!
You act as if this doesn't bother you. A spill like this is horrible, no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on.
25 BMI727: Well, compared to the sky is falling, "Stop drilling before the oceans turn black!" crowd, it doesn't. It is one accident, which happens once in a wh
26 DocLightning: I think you need to take a trip to New Orleans. I can't believe you don't think this is a catastrophe. It's the 3rd largest spill in the world.
27 flanker: Doc, to be honest it really doesn't bother me. Nobody wants to see a spill ever, but it happens. At the same time there are pressing matters going on
28 Glom: To knee jerk is always folly, though emotionally understandable while the Well from Hell continues to frustrate our efforts to banish to the fiery de
29 BMI727: Well, they already survived a hurricane and the city hasn't fallen into the sea. I don't think that this will spell the end of New Orleans either. (B
30 DocLightning: You don realize that there are a lot of people who depend on that marine life for their livelihoods, right? You are so in love with offshore drilling
31 MadameConcorde: Fail again. 4 to 7 days before the next attempt. Let's look at the facts. 'Top kill' fails, BP moves on 'to next option' By the CNN Wire Staff Suttles
32 Glom: A lot of people's livelihoods are in trouble. The other industries affected by the pollution of course, but also the huge numbers who make their livi
33 flanker: lmao!! How is he going to stop it? Throwing teleprompters at it? Get real.
34 Glom: I believe that would be the emotional knee jerk I noted earlier.
35 BMI727: How many people work on those oil rigs? Not to mention all of the downstream jobs in the industry. I don't see how one industry is anointed as being
36 MadameConcorde: Obama has recognized himself that he was responsibile. He is the President of the U.S. He has a government. They must take charge before this disaste
37 Baroque: True, but the first try with the relief well might not work either, with Montara it took quite a few tries to get the damned thing. It is generations
38 MadameConcorde: Does anyone else find it difficult to believe that these wells are dug with absolutely no plan on how they would stop them from gushing in to the ocea
39 BMI727: Wait, you mean that we won't have to form an exclusion zone around Louisiana? It won't be incinerated, melted, collapse, blow up, rot, or have an eve
40 Glom: That hasn't answered the question. What is he supposed to do? Just saying "take charge" is a bit wooly. What form would this taking charge take? Ther
41 Baroque: Probably not!!!! An interesting comparison is available. Anyone here NOT visited Hollywood and the La Brea tar pits? The tar pits were an obvious pro
42 MadameConcorde: Iran, a fierce critic of Washington, repeated an offer to assist with the Gulf spill. " In Tehran, Mehran Alinejad, head of special drilling operation
43 Airport: Here's the thing... you're not responding to environmentalism, you're responding to faux-environmentalism that has become a trend of sorts among yout
44 gatorfan: Let's not be melodramatic. Four different independent shut-off systems failed. Yes, everyone involved did a poor job identifying the potential scenar
45 Baroque: 1. Undoubtedly it is a disaster. 2. Probably not for the ramifications in terms of the environment. 3. Hopefully yes, the ramifications will be felt
46 Aaron747: Well yes, sure, but we're supposed to be concerned about our fellow citizens - particularly those having their business prospects wiped out by no fau
47 MD11Engineer: Besides the fact that any solution can only come from the engineering side. Option A failed, so try option B, if this fails, go back to the drawing b
48 Airport: Nope, I'm not. I haven't really been reading about it on mainstream news, simply because I don't trust mainstream news to give me a focused, balanced
49 BMI727: Because hating the oil companies is a fad. Never mind that they provide us a resource that we need for our modern lifestyle. They make too much money
50 ER757: You really don't get it, do you? That marine life supports people's businesses, not to mention the food chain in the Gulf, which, believe it or not i
51 UAL747: I think he did say that in a roundabout way. The difference between this and a plane crash, is that a plane crash's collateral damage, 9/11 aside, is
52 BMI727: And batteries, which are not always made in the most environmentally friendly ways. But more importantly for me, they are ridiculously heavy. An all
53 type-rated: The main problem with this well is that it is a high pressure well. The internal pressures are higher within than a normally drilled well. Then the we
54 TheCol: BP doesn't have a lot of time left to cap the well. Monday is the start of hurricane season. There hasn't been a fan for the shit to hit yet, but that
55 TheCommodore: Just Plain WRONG ! It has NOT happened before This it the biggest in the history of the USA !! Yes its very disappointing actually. This will never h
56 GQfluffy: I'm not sure why people think a nuclear explosion at this point in the game is a bad thing. The area is already polluted and ruined; radiation won't m
57 PPVRA: Hurricane Versus the Oil Spill by NOAA: http://www.weather.com/outlook/weath...urricane-impacts_2010-05-28?page=1 Some FAQs answered.
58 Zentraedi: What a terrible attitude. That's not an excuse to certain corporations carte blanche for whatever. It's a reason to allow them to pursue oil, but not
59 futurepilot16: And how do you propose this? Keep in mind, every oil expert in the world is in America's backyard to help with the spill. Not much more Obama can Do
61 BMI727: Only if it is found that the company was not in compliance with regulations. Then you are free to sue for damages and have it settled in the courts.
62 steeler83: I thought of getting some state-of-the-art concrete down there (stuff that can dry underwater) by means of a long hose. They have made such advanceme
63 Baroque: Oh me oh my. Concrete that sets under water. How ever did BP not think of that before. I am sure they are celebrating wildly now and ordering up the c
64 okie: I am not sure what procedures were in place but I caught some of the testimony of the MMS hearings by Halliburton employee. They got 1,400psig on neg
65 Baroque: There are no foregone conclusions in this, but that looks a fair bet. Perhaps not related, but have you heard results of any DSTs? Flow rates would b
66 UAL747DEN: It SHOULD also be well known that Limbaugh is a complete idiot! BP has ruined the way of life of many Americans and their negligence will be felt for
67 Glom: Here's the definition of accident, since you obviously need to be reminded.
68 Glom: Don't be incredulous. Every company does this. There is always more that can be done to ensure safety, but at some point you have to say that the exp
69 marsciguy: Is the pressure being discussed there internal to the riser/pipe? (otherwise, how DO you get negative pressure? This is how you define knee-jerk!
70 Glom: True. Ending up being forced to sell BP America would be very unfortunate, but I guess possibly appropriate if it comes to it. The North Slope is als
71 UAL747DEN: I'm glad you were able to post that but I don't think that I'm the one who needs reminded. If you read what you posted you will see that it says "occ
72 okie: Yes, maybe a coma would have helped there. A positive, pressure test would be to bring it up to a test pressure and see if it holds for X period of t
73 PacNWjet: Yeah, well today (Tuesday, June 1, 2010) at approximately 12:35 Eastern Daylight Time (U.S.) Rush Limbaugh said, "There is nothing good about this sp
74 DocLightning: The difference between honesty and flip-flopping is that when you're honest you say "I know I said A, but I was wrong. I now believe B." Rush never s
75 speedygonzales: People with that attitude should be forced to scoop up the leaked oil without protective gear!
76 okie: A leak in the Gulf of Mexico,.............maybe we should of had Joe the Plumber Okie
77 FlyDeltaJets87: You want to back that up or do you just want to continue to spew more BS than the hole in the Gulf of Mexico is spewing oil? I don't think he really
78 marsciguy: Ah - entirely different meaning! Thanks! I was trying to figure out how pressure was being sucked away when all the oil was pushing from below lol...
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