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Iraq Gun Video Leaker: Arrested  
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

A few months ago there was a heated discussion over a released 2007 gun video, showing an AH-64 firing on a group of suspected armed insurgents (it was later discovered that the man was not carrying an RPG, but rather a large camera). I wanted to simply update the original thread, but it was locked.

Just an update on the story, the Army soldier who illegally released the classified video to Wikileaks, has been arrested.

Quote:
Spc. Bradley Manning, an Army intelligence analyst, is reportedly the source of the 2007 video that the website Wikileaks dubbed "Collateral Murder" when it released the video online in early April.
....
According to Wired, the Army zeroed in on Manning after a he boasted to a former computer hacker he was chatting with online that he was the source of the video, which recorded an Apache attack on a group of men it believed were insurgents only a few blocks from where American troops were engaged in combat.
....
According to Wired,, Manning also leaked other materials to Wikileaks, including a 2009 video showing an air strike on Garani, Afghanistan, a classified Army document that concluded Wikileaks to be a security threat, and a batch of some 260,000 diplomatic cables that Manning reportedly claimed exposed "almost criminal political back dealings." Those cables have not been published, according to Wired.
http://www.military.com/news/article...-murder-video-leaker-arrested.html

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

No matter how you feel about the content of the video, if you leak secret military information, you can't complain when you're eventually arrested.

On a similar topic, this is an excellent article on this Wikileaks video, and is also a biographical piece on their founder Julian Assange:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...06/07/100607fa_fact_khatchadourian



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlinedl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2443 times:
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The guy who turned him in is slightly worried that he's now considered a "rat" by his fellow hackers, but he knows that he's done the right thing for himself, his family, his nation and even the leaker.

Whatever your motivations leaking classifed military information bears a cost, and if you're violating your oath then you need to pay the price. Some people will claim that leaks like this are necessary to keep the truth out there, and the UCMJ would require a serviceman or woman to report crimes and disobey unlawful orders, but this guy simply sent a bunch of classified docs and photos to be spread anywhere regardless of the harm brought to his own nation. And in spite of that he didn't know the entire story.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2440 times:

Pretty stupid to go bragging about it online.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24858 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Leaking classified material while in the employment of the armed forces is nothing short of a treasonous act.

I hope the full weight of the law if applied here.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

If the court martial finds him guilty, then they should lock him up for the better portion of his life. Such behavior is a clear violation of national security.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

  



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

I remember the old days when war was not mini-series you watched on TV.

All these people that leak classified videos and pictures, should be dealt with in the harshest manor. In war, mistakes and bad things happen. When stuff like this leaks, it causes backlash, and backlash causes hesitation, which at the wrong time, can get you, and/or others killed.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2754 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
I remember the old days when war was not mini-series you watched on TV.

That's just it, this is not the "good o'l days", this is today and wars are played out on TV

Remember the invasion of Iraq, the taring down of Saddam's statue, there were cameras at every angle so no one would or could miss anything.

This is a reason why people Whistle blow and will continue to do so.

If we are going to film things this is a consequence of those actions.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
In war, mistakes and bad things happen. When stuff like this leaks, it causes backlash, and backlash causes hesitation, which at the wrong time, can get you, and/or others killed.

That will continue to happen, whistle blowers or not !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
Leaking classified material while in the employment of the armed forces is nothing short of a treasonous act.

I hope the full weight of the law if applied here



Agree with this 100% ...

I was reading a article about our surveillance operations in Iraq / Afghanistan. Basically we have 247 sat and airborne "coverage " of the major cities and population centers. We can record a suicide bomb attack (in theory) and track the vehicle back to its origin via video. That is a elementary view of it but the point being we have millions of hours of video recorded... if it were to be leaked out all the time it is dangerous for our troops and other operators. Not to mention all the live operations that are forces carry out ..they are also recorded for various reasons .... these are military secrets and need to be guarded as such.

Hell yes..... hit him with a treason charge and make a clear example of him .!



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7):
This is a reason why people Whistle blow and will continue to do so.

The guy in question isn't a "whistle blower". He did it to satisfy his own ego.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently onlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

If you don't want it out on Youtube then don't record it on camera. That is as true for you doing the nasty with your boyfriend in a hotel room as for you spraying down a bunch of civilians with 30mm ammo.


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 10):
If you don't want it out on Youtube then don't record it on camera. That is as true for you doing the nasty with your boyfriend in a hotel room as for you spraying down a bunch of civilians with 30mm ammo.

That's some pretty poor logic. Most videos don't have secret protection, and most videos can't land you in jail for decades for leaking them.



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
Leaking classified material while in the employment of the armed forces is nothing short of a treasonous act.

I hope the full weight of the law if applied here

What if it was a German soldier in WWII who leaked out images of an SS atrocity? Or an Iraqi soldier leaking out information/images about one of Saddam's abuses?


User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 12):

What if it was a German soldier in WWII who leaked out images of an SS atrocity? Or an Iraqi soldier leaking out information/images about one of Saddam's abuses?

Then they would be prosecuted for treason by their respective governments.



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1858 times:

Good to know the "Hang Daniel Ellsberg mob" are still out in force. Might be as well to remember it was trying to bring down Ellsberg not the Pentagon Papers themselves that brought Nixon down.

What military secrets were being protected by keeping that video in a "classified" category? Bet there is not a good answer to that????

Anyone wonder if someone who would brag about such a release, might not be the actual leaker. Just call me suspicious.


User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

Quoting newark777 (Reply 13):
Then they would be prosecuted for treason by their respective governments.

Precisely, at which point, the US, Saddam, and Nazi governments would be indistinguishable in this regard, and those calling for punishment against the leaker, are now indistinguishable from those of SS loyalists calling for retribution against someone leaking out images of a concentration camp, since they are placing military needs above moral ones, and making judgements based purely on trying to hide military abuses/errors from the light of day.


User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):

What military secrets were being protected by keeping that video in a "classified" category? Bet there is not a good answer to that????

Why would you want videos of all of your military operations and procedures released to the public? Seems perfectly valid to me.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):

Anyone wonder if someone who would brag about such a release, might not be the actual leaker. Just call me suspicious.

I would hope that they would acquire more evidence than just an internet admission before placing him under arrest.



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlinenewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1840 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 15):

Precisely, at which point, the US, Saddam, and Nazi governments would be indistinguishable in this regard, and those calling for punishment against the leaker, are now indistinguishable from those of SS loyalists calling for retribution against someone leaking out images of a concentration camp, since they are placing military needs above moral ones, and making judgements based purely on trying to hide military abuses/errors from the light of day.

He broke a law, and he is getting punished. You obviously have no love for the US military and are really grasping at straws trying to portray this soldier in a good light.



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
What military secrets were being protected by keeping that video in a "classified" category? Bet there is not a good answer to that????



Tactics , communications , weapons use and effect, on board vis aid and video capability , accuracy of weapons , crew command and control ..... not to mention the mis construction of the events by the political and PR operations of the enemy.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

Quoting newark777 (Reply 17):
He broke a law, and he is getting punished. You obviously have no love for the US military and are really grasping at straws trying to portray this soldier in a good light.

And love is blind. Yes?


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Anyone wonder if someone who would brag about such a release, might not be the actual leaker. Just call me suspicious.

The person who linked the video has suspect moral character in the first place to not leave classified material where it belongs. The same person would probably want some sort of "Anonymous" credit.

that being said,
I am sure that they got some backing evidence when they moved in for the arrest.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinedeltaownsall From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 15):
Precisely, at which point, the US, Saddam, and Nazi governments would be indistinguishable in this regard, and those calling for punishment against the leaker, are now indistinguishable from those of SS loyalists calling for retribution against someone leaking out images of a concentration camp,

Comparing US operations in Afghanistan with the Holocaust? Nice...


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Quoting newark777 (Reply 16):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):

What military secrets were being protected by keeping that video in a "classified" category? Bet there is not a good answer to that????

Why would you want videos of all of your military operations and procedures released to the public? Seems perfectly valid to me.

No, but one imagines that Iraqis know most of those details from first hand experience, you still have not explained what particular secrets would be in that video, other than it is inconvenient for the public to know what the military actually does.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 20):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Anyone wonder if someone who would brag about such a release, might not be the actual leaker. Just call me suspicious.

The person who linked the video has suspect moral character in the first place to not leave classified material where it belongs. The same person would probably want some sort of "Anonymous" credit.

Well there was Deep Throat. Agreed he did admit finally but what 40 years after the event.

I suppose if someone states they did it, arrest might well follow, but just because someone claims the leak does not mean they did it. And I do hope that Wikileaks does not leak. I suppose the US could always start to move on the members of the Advisory board for Wikileaks if they want to become more like Stasi.

Quoting avent (Reply 15):
since they are placing military needs above moral ones, and making judgements based purely on trying to hide military abuses/errors from the light of day

   Nicely put.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
What military secrets were being protected by keeping that video in a "classified" category? Bet there is not a good answer to that????

That is not the job of some E-4 (the rank is called "specialist"). I know you loath the military, but you can at least understand the need for adherence to rules and regulations? The moment an E-4 has the authority to deem what should, and should not be, classified... good order and discipline has broken down.

The problem people like you and "Avent" get into, is relating civilian standards (ie: whistle-blower status) to military matters. Adherence to rules and regulations is a bit more important than when you're working at the local fast food joint. Not to mention, classified material is protected under federal law, and there are strict procedures on how to handle it, and who can release it. He did not have that authority, and he must be punished accordingly. I'm not sure what part of that is so confusing for you?


Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Anyone wonder if someone who would brag about such a release, might not be the actual leaker. Just call me suspicious.

Yeah... this is a huge conspiracy. The government is colluding to frame a lowly 22yr old E-4... good one...

Quoting avent (Reply 15):
Precisely, at which point, the US, Saddam, and Nazi governments would be indistinguishable in this regard, and those calling for punishment against the leaker, are now indistinguishable from those of SS loyalists

Just as I broke it down for Baroque: there cannot be an environment where soldiers - regardless of their rank - are free to release classified material, at their will. Just because he's your hero, doesn't absolve him of his crime, or the punishment.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1766 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 23):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
What military secrets were being protected by keeping that video in a "classified" category? Bet there is not a good answer to that????

That is not the job of some E-4 (the rank is called "specialist"). I know you loath the military, but you can at least understand the need for adherence to rules and regulations? The moment an E-4 has the authority to deem what should, and should not be, classified... good order and discipline has broken down.

I was not aware the secrecy classifications would be done by an E-4, whatever that happens to be. Thanks for the tip. Thanks also for the mind reading session.

My problem is nothing at all to do with the military but the civilian controls that permit the military to classify such material.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 23):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Anyone wonder if someone who would brag about such a release, might not be the actual leaker. Just call me suspicious.

Yeah... this is a huge conspiracy. The government is colluding to frame a lowly 22yr old E-4... good one...

I hope you wear a parachute while jumping to conclusions from a great moral height. I simply pointed out what I am sure the authorities also realise that someone who admitted to this might not actually have been the leaker. Might not also includes the possibility of "might have" you know. It is called keeping an open mind. Of course dangerous things open minds, new thoughts could easily develop.


25 BMI727 : Well, there is good reason for the military to want to record things. Intelligence is rather hard to get when the best you've got is eyewitness accou
26 Post contains links Acheron : Considering the amount of photage available to the public of Apaches' gun cam, I'm going to cal BS on that. Heck, there is even an entire site devote
27 UH60FtRucker : Oh give me a break... you made that comment without even bothering to get the full facts. You're suggesting that this was done simply on the evidence
28 avent : If people can't stand the comparison, they shouldn't invite it.
29 avent : So you would endorse Saddam's regime hanging an Iraqi soldier who leaked information that was embarrassing to it? I wouldn't; but I'm not a military
30 avent : Would these same rules and regulations require accidental civilian casualties to be investigated and not designated as 'classified' in order to cover
31 UH60FtRucker : It's simply something you're unlikely to understand. There cannot be an environment where lower enlisted soldiers are permitted to pick and choose wh
32 newark777 : Don't feed the trolls.
33 avent : If this is true, I'm sure can expect a coherent explanation from you at some point. So lower enlisted soldiers are expected to follow the rules, but
34 damirc : There cannot be an environment where lower enlisted soldiers are permitted to pick and choose which rules and regulations they want to obey. A soldier
35 AGM100 : True enough ... but you can not have active military personel emailing out stuff without permission. End of arguemnt . But then again ... we cant uph
36 avent : But this is not a fair statement of the problem. No one is arguing that any soldier is at liberty to put whatever they want on YouTube. We are specif
37 TheCol : All your points are totally irrelevant. This case is going to be based on the fact that this soldier in no way felt morally obligated to release the
38 UH60FtRucker : We're agreeing to not feed the troll. Best to just ignore him.
39 avent : And I'll agree not to knock sanctimonious military types off their high-horses with just the teeniest puff of logic.
40 CPH-R : What coverup? The Army publicly reported the incident on the same day it happened, that's pretty piss poor covering up if you ask me.
41 avent : As I understand it, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, it was not reported that civilians were killed as the second part of the action. And as
42 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : They covered it up. Along with the fact that Big Bird was the second shooter in Dallas.
43 avent : They are not irrelevant since you concede my major point that morality is an important aspect in any kind of whistle-blower case. If this particular
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