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Welcome To Lagos..  
User currently offlinecaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3047 times:

Though I would share this with you guys...

You know the majority of us live good lives with all the necessary comforts, and sometimes we forget that there are lot of people who don't enjoy such things. I don't remember the figure but I am sure I have heard that 1/3 of the earth's population lives in poverty. Maybe it's not such a high number. But I saw this episode on BBC, Welcome to Lagos, and I was truly moved. I mean these guys are quite cheerful taking into consideration their circumstances, I mean at the end of day life is usually what we make it.

Another thing that impressed me was the character of the people in this episode. In some parts of Africa, the people are ruthless, some by choice and others because it is the way they were taught, or the direction life's circumstances has taken them.. But here we see some really hardworking honest people.

Check out when you get a chance guys..

1/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9BQitPzRiM

2/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELWcNtq7Csk&feature=related

3/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_tQ5BZ37M&feature=related

4/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu0QmQ2EPSM&feature=related

5/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GahVGgsHvaY&feature=related

6/6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KNXWAZrepQ&feature=related


There is something special about planes....
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2132 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting captaink (Thread starter):
I saw this episode on BBC, Welcome to Lagos, and I was truly moved. I mean these guys are quite cheerful taking into consideration their circumstances, I mean at the end of day life is usually what we make it.

Indeed. And you know, these people have the good fortune of being poor. Poverty —which is not the same thing as misery— is a superb liberating agent, a providential blow that cuts through the fog of this great consumer society mirage, a natural antidote against these artificial paradises mankind is submerged in.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlinetk747 From Australia, joined Sep 2009, 341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

The BBC has such great documentaries. Thanks for posting this, i''ve heard from friends that Lagos is a real hell hole. I would like to see for myself though.

User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2813 times:

Quoting tk747 (Reply 2):
i''ve heard from friends that Lagos is a real hell hole. I would like to see for myself though.

hell hole is an understatement, man. I've been there...I recommend just viewing it in picture.


User currently offlinecaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2789 times:

Yeh, the BBC does some really interesting documentaries. Very impressed. I still would like to brave Lagos myself.. 


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2132 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

Quoting captaink (Thread starter):
Another thing that impressed me was the character of the people

Perhaps it has something to do with these being God-fearing people; some of them born again.  

[Edited 2010-06-19 10:03:47]


Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27124 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):
hell hole is an understatement, man. I've been there...I recommend just viewing it in picture.

LOL... One place I have no desire to go to even a Nigerian friend at work says its a hell hole and she would never go back .


User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2736 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Thanks Captaink! That was a great documentary.

It is also interesting to note what is being done to change the look of Lagos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC5ONrDnDR4&feature=related


User currently offlinecaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 7):
Thanks Captaink! That was a great documentary.

It is also interesting to note what is being done to change the look of Lagos.

What a city.. HAHA

These Mega Cities in the world do pose some interesting challenges. I am also quite intrigued by Mexico City. Would hate to be the governor there.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2736 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

http://www.youtube.com/user/chairmanking#p/u/20/R-0dFPBybro

Second part of the report.

http://www.youtube.com/user/chairmanking#p/u/19/B4L84WDjVrM


User currently offlineBR076 From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 1086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2305 times:

Quoting tk747 (Reply 2):
The BBC has such great documentaries.

Indeed , I remember one I saw recently , Blood, Sweat and Take aways , it was about some spoiled British teens who had to work in the third world food industry and they had to live on the money they earned with that job. I think they all changed after that experience.



ú
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10907 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

Many of our so-called "First World" Western countries do not posess any such natural resources and we are comparatively well off looking at these African countries that are full of oil such as Gabon or Nigeria.

They make way too many children, their population is way too high, the regimes have dubious dictators full of money and bankers dealing with dubious practices with villas on Swiss Lakes and Swiss bank accounte while their people are living in poverty. I'd say bring down these dictators!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19954 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

Because there are no systems in place to keep a very small, elite minority from completely exploiting a very large poor majority.

There are no unions, there are no OHSA rules, there are no benefits from working. There is no public education. If you watched the documentary in the OP (which I highly recommend) you can see how kids as young as 11-12 (no way that young boy was 15) are working.

At this point, the model is similar to medieval Europe in which a series of land owners (Lords) possess essentially all the wealth and exploit the working class (serfs) to uphold their wealth.

However, it appears that Nigeria has promise. As Lagos modernizes and western technologies begin to infiltrate, I think that the people are going to start to pull together. If they can avoid any unfortunate totalitarian revolutions, Nigeria could seriously industrialize much as Brazil is right now. Brazil used to be a backwater third-world country, also. And yet bit by bit, they are pulling themselves up by the bootstraps. They've got a way to go before they become a truly first world country, but they're getting there. I do hope Nigeria is next.


User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2296 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?



Because corrupt crooks control those resources.

I was in Lagos two nights ago and then had crew rest in Abuja. The difference between the two is like night and day. LOS is a complete shithole and the place where dreams go to die. The only places that I can think of that are worse are FIH and NDJ



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10907 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2285 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 13):
Because corrupt crooks control those resources.

Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Another point - why all thes children? Why do they keep multiplying at such high rates?
Also religious fanaticism - I guess it has a big part to play in what's happening to the country.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Another point - why all thes children? Why do they keep multiplying at such high rates?
Also religious fanaticism - I guess it has a big part to play in what's happening to the country.

Good questions!
The first part of your question is probably pretty simple to answer: Nigeria has never had a political system that was designed in the people's interest (theoretically at least). Speaking out, freedom of speech, organizing are foreign concepts to a great deal of the world, it just might not occur to them to do so in the manner we might.
Secondly, Nigeria is ethnically heterogenous. There are three big groups, and (to quote Deborah Morgan) "a metric f*ckton" of smaller ones, very similar to most of African nations. They don't have the best history working together, and a brief glance at Nigerian history tells me that the regimes du jour have been able to play the groups against each other to sustain power. It certainly does NOT help that the three groups do not share a religion.


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Quoting tk747 (Reply 2):

The BBC has such great documentaries

I've always had a great respect for the BBC, but why the subtitles on what is perfectly understandable, if heavily accented English? It's no more accented than say, Indian English, so why the condescending subtitles?

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):
I recommend just viewing it in picture

I've always considered Lagos (and Nigeria) to be one of the most dangerous countries to visit, but having watched those videos I'd really love to go . . . how safe/unsafe is it exacty?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Another point - why all thes children? Why do they keep multiplying at such high rates?

I'd suggest three reasons: lack or unaffordability of birth control, a hot sweaty environment and a population in very close proximity to each other . . .


User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3376 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 16):
It's no more accented than say, Indian English, so why the condescending subtitles?

Probably for two reasons, 1) somone might still not follow them and 2) to make the show exportable to countries where English is only a second (third) language.

FWIW, the same happens here on Dutch television. When someone from Belgian speaks, or someone with a heavy accent, then often there are subtitles.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 17):
Probably for two reasons, 1) somone might still not follow them and 2) to make the show exportable to countries where English is only a second (third) language.

But do they do this for documentaries with people from say, Russia, China or South Africa? Affrikaner English, for example, can be impenetrable at times. And not to be discriminatory, if ANY NATIVE ENGLISH speakers needed subtitles they would be the East and West Belfast ones, and in our case the Kerry accent. Even I can't understand them when they speak quickly . . . and they do!


User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3376 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Could not resist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvy6MjiNgl0



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 16):
I've always had a great respect for the BBC, but why the subtitles on what is perfectly understandable, if heavily accented English? It's no more accented than say, Indian English, so why the condescending subtitles?

Perhaps because it's perfectly understandable for you while not everyone has English as their native tongue?


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 22 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 20):
Perhaps because it's perfectly understandable for you while not everyone has English as their native tongue?

Fair point, But shouldn't they do this for documentaries in all countries where English is not the first language?


User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3873 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 22 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

Ever heard of the natural resource curse?

You could ask this same question of many African countries--in fact, dare I say that Lagos isn't as bad as it could possibly be, especially when you consider that the world's most lethal, and some say most brutal, war since WWII has been occuring in a place that is basically a giant treasure chest of natural resources--the DRC.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Many of our so-called "First World" Western countries do not posess any such natural resources and we are comparatively well off looking at these African countries that are full of oil such as Gabon or Nigeria

That's because many western countries have evolved from the time when they exclusively relied on their own natural resources into countries with diversified economies. Much of Africa is still solely reliant on their natural resources, which exposes them to the ups and downs of the free market, and haven't had the chance to diversify--mainly because in order to diversify their economies, they typically need a certain measure of political stability--something that Africa has generally lacked post WWII.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Well, they sometimes do--the problem is that you typically need money to organize a cohesive protest movement, and the people who tend to have most of the money in those countries are the current beneficiaries of the system--and are thus not likely to overthrow their friends and colleagues unless they believe that they can gain from such a risky action.

Protesting a government or attempting a coup is somewhat of a luxury, if you think about it. You aren't going to spend your time and resources devoted to such an activity unless either your family is fed and comparatively healthy or you don't have a family and have nothing to lose. Many of the nationalist revolutionary movements of the 20th century weren't organized by people from the lower classes--they were typically organized and led by individuals with a middle-class background, whose families could afford to provide them at least some schooling.


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 21 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

Quoting captaink (Reply 8):
These Mega Cities in the world do pose some interesting challenges. I am also quite intrigued by Mexico City. Would hate to be the governor there.

Lagos makes Mexico City look like Tokyo or London...

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 16):
how safe/unsafe is it exacty?

I didn't necessarily feel terribly unsafe there, just a little...and I am as white as can be (despite being an African by nationality). It's more just...bloody awful. Dirty, crowded, dirty, smelly, dirty, corrupt, dirty...


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3185 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 21 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Why Is Lagos such a hell hole when Nigeria is a country full of natural resources, oil and others?

The same reason many other African nations have yet to prosper. Full of resources but rampant corruption keeps the $$$ in the hands of a small elite. No regulations as to wages and living conditions and a political system unable and/or unwilling to respond to the demands of the people.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Why don't people revolt and bring down these dictators and crooks and dubious bankers?
What are they waiting for?

Ask North Koreans, Cubans, Syrians, Iranians, and many others that live under dictatorial rule and will not oppose the leader for fear of their lives. When a government gets friendly with the armed forces or a volunteer group of armed people, it gets difficult to protest knowing that your every move is being watched and will be used to throw you in jail or execute you.

The elite is a powerful thing and they will stop at nothing to protect their interests, even if it means coercing the government to crush any revolution. By promising the army better living conditions, they can easily have the army under their command. The tide will turn whenever the army realizes that it is being played with and take matters into its own hands.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
25 ScarletHarlot : Madame, for a lady of your life experience, these are awfully naive questions. When you are dirt poor and all your energies are expended in trying to
26 DocLightning : For the same reason they don't in Iran. Not for lack of wanting.
27 Delboy : There is a lot of BS in this thread primarily, and this is only my guess, from people who have never been to Lagos, let alone Africa. Lagos is the ars
28 captaink : Ah no doubt, I wasn comparing in anyway. Mexico City is a pretty cool city, that I love visiting from time to time, it is just HUGE, and a bit crazy,
29 us330 : I read in some book--I believe it was William Easterly's "The White Man's Burden"--that only 1 out of every 10 or 12 aid dollars sent to Nigeria actu
30 sw733 : I agree, I really enjoy MEX! I doubt he does anything but sit back and take some kickbacks...
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