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Gay Students Finally Goes To The Prom With Bf  
User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

First of all, my original post has been deleted, due to the 'copyright' rule on this forum, which I personally think it's weird.

Anyways, A 17y/o gay high school grad (in Oshawa, Ontario)won the lawsuit against the Catholic school board for bringing his bf to the prom on Friday.

Catholic School Board's lawyer has quote they'll keep fighting for their own rights.

The judge ruling said that the Catholic School Board has violated human rights of Marc Hall, and quote "Marc Hall is a Roman Catholic who just want to be himself."

Catholic School Board is dissapointed with the ruling, and asking "Then where's our rights?"

Although the 1st roung of lawsuit has settled down, but the 2nd round is expected to begin soon. The 2nd roung will involve whether the Catholic School Board has the rights to do everything that they want to and should practice.


One of the controversy includes:
should a public-funded Catholic school obey the law, because they're public;

Catholic Schools are now complaining that they can't do anything that they want.


By the way, I didn't read the replies last night, so, if you want to post it again, welcome  Smile

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

The school is a Catholic private one.

Catholics do not accept homosexuality.

He can attend another school that does accept him, but as long as he's in a private school he has to abide by the rules.

Anyways it's been done now...



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineB747CA From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 677 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Marco, the Catholic system in Ontario is no longer considered private as it is now fully funded by the provincial government. Although some rules still apply ie. uniform and mandatory religion classes.

Other than that there is no difference.



ma va funk ulo
User currently offlineWatewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1722 times:

This thing has turned out to be the biggest media stunt in a long time. They had a chopper trail the guy's limo to the prom; a little extra, don't you think?

User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5003 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

Good for him. If it upsets some closed-minded people I'm all for it.


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

What's so utterly ridiculous about this is the double standard.

For instance, birth control is also against RC teachings. So why didn't this school board also ban RC children from attending school if their parents performed birth control? Since there are hardly any 12- or 15-children families anymore, probably all RC families would be banned and the schools would be empty.

But gays are in the minority and easily picked on I guess.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1647 times:

Why is it their business? It is a personal choice of his on who to bring to the prom. If he wants to bring his BF to the prom, go ahead and let him.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineTurbineBeaver From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

While we're talking about prom.

Wasn't there some guy on here whom we all voted for to go to Prom with his local DJ? And he won? Well buddy, how was the date with her?

TB


User currently offlineDC10Tony From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

So, which guy wore the dress...?

LOL


User currently offlineSerge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

I agree entirely with OzarkD9S.  Big thumbs up

...Serge


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5003 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1621 times:

sege: you made my respected users list


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

I'm not anti-gay. Heck, I was a male flight attendant for a while, so I can't be that bad! In any case, I have to disagree with you all here, in that it is a catholic school board, and they have their standards, whether they are close minded or not. All he is doing is trying to get all the attention and spotlight on him, and I don't like that. If he's in a catholic school, there are "standards" to be followed, and that's it. If he doesn't fit the "mould" which they so adamently fight for, then he is not in the right place.

Again, I'm not anti gay (leaves more women for straight guys, and lesbianism takes care of a lot of butch girls too!!!), but some institutions have their way of doing things, and we should not try to destroy them as individuals, because as an individual, he is going agaisnt what a large group of other individuals in this same institution believe in. And as such, this one individual getting HIS right, is destroying the rights of the majority of the other individuals in the same institution. That's not fair, and given all that, he can choose another institution which best fits HIS requirements. And that's why I'm against the ruling.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlinePendrilsaint From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

Lets look at the bigger issue lol , why in the heck is the government paying for a religious school? Does Canada not having a seperation of church and state?

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

Nuno, I disagree with you.

That Catholic school board is funded by ALL taxpayers, most of whom in Ontario are not Catholic. As a Protestant, I have no problem funding Catholic schools (which must admit non-Catholics anyway).

However, I don't see why I, as a Protestant, should fund Catholic discrimination & prejudices. If this RC school was fully self-funding....then they would have a stronger case for pushing their exclusion.....but when they are publicly funded, they must adhere to society's norms of non-discrimination.

The school board's treatment of this student is/was barbaric.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

YYZ717,

I did know that they are funded by the tax payers. I guess then they aren't really private and they have to follow the rules, like everyone else!

I agree with you, as a Baptist, I would not like my money to go to Catholics, I do not agree with many of their teachings.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

Pendrilsaint wrote: "Lets look at the bigger issue lol , why in the heck is the government paying for a religious school?"

The Ontario government is required to by Section 93 of the Canadian constitution. It was one of the terms of Ontario's being a founding province of Canada back in 1867.

Changing the constitution is a difficult and often controversial process, so Section 93 will probably remain intact into the foreseeable future.

As far as the wider issue goes: Twenty years from now, people will look back on 2002 and wonder, "What was the big deal?" Much in the same way as people in the '70s and '80s were looking back on the absurdities of the '50s and '60s, when contraceptives were illegal in places and network censors even forbade the word 'pregnant' from being used on the air.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

While the arguments posted are all valid, and they diminish those of the catholic school board, I still think that being a catholic school, they should have the right to have their own way of doing things. I'm not gay, I'm not religious, so I don't fall into any of the categories in the argument. However, I do also think that when one person's rights infringe on the rights of the majority in a group of people, and that one individual wins against most others, then something is wrong. Eventhough the catholic school board is publicly funded, as per the Constitution as stated by Mcdougald, they are still a seperate entity and should have the power to make certain rules and procedures. I do think there is a valid case here, and as this goes further, it will be interesting to see the outcome. If most people support the action of letting gay couples go to school functions such as the prom, then I'm alright with it. But if one student is going to do something his way, which is against the ways of the majority of others, then that's wrong.

hehehe, I await all of your friendly replies  Smile



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

Captaingomes, your reasoning would only apply to the U.S. where Catholic schools are a separate ideological and funded entity and therefore have the right to define their own standards. The fact that Ontario Catholic schools accept public funding makes them automatically accountable to public ideals and norms. However, were they privately funded then I would have to agree that they should have every right to refuse this student from bringing his boyfriend. You can't confuse the two issues. Their being publicly funded puts them in the same category as any other public school, which overrides their right to make school policy based on their own religious principles.

No one's saying they're not allowed to operate within their own Cathlic beliefs, but they'd have to stop accepting public funds, which up till now they have not expressed an interest in doing.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Well said Hepkat. This RC school board wants the 'best' of both worlds: public funding but the right to discriminate.

The school board is also being selective in which Catholic teachings it's supporting. It's making an issue of homosexuality but ironically, why isn't it making an issue of birth control? .......If the school banned all students who used (or whose parents used) BC, the school would be empty; they'd have to ban everyone. So they leave BC alone. So they pick on a gay student...because they can. The student body is absolutely, completely supportive of Marc Hall.

Discriminatory treatment by the RC church hierarchy such as this is just driving more & more Ontario RC's away from the RC church.








Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1513 times:

The publicly funded aspect of course is the catholic board's problem. However, this raises the question ... eventhough an entity is publicly funded, does that not give them the right to have their own way of doing things? (Unless of course they are illegal). If a catholic school board does not have the right to follow the catholic beliefs, then that undermines its whole existence, even with the Constitution saying so. The time will come when gay relationships are accepted by the church, and at that point, the catholic board would not have any reason to object to gay couples going to the prom. The same way that the church has become more relaxed with birth control, in time will it also become that way with gay couples I think. But until then, it should not be an outsiders beliefs which should govern the way the catholic school board does things. Again, I'm not religious, and do not have a problem with this fellow and his relationship.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1511 times:

However, this raises the question ... eventhough an entity is publicly funded, does that not give them the right to have their own way of doing things?

In short, the answer is no. Imagine what would happen if public institutions were allowed to discriminate!


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1508 times:

Then it must be discriminitory for a student to go to a catholic school and be forced to take religion classes.

I don't think that given the so called "morals" and "beliefs" which the catholic religion goes by, that they are discriminating against this gay couple. However, I do not like the attitude where they were going to stop the prom, etc etc, just to stop this from happening. That is wrong, and an uncalled for attitude.

My problem is really a matter of people outside the catholic religion and catholic schools for the most part wanting to tell the catholic school what to do just because they are publicly funded, and I think that is wrong. Something like accepting gay couples at a prom at a catholic school should be a more thought, and should I say "beaurocratic" process in order to achieve what the majority of those in this entity deem to be right and acceptable. Otherwise, the catholic school board is nothing different than a public school board.

I'm not a lawyer, but shouldn't I get some sort of money from the board for arguing these points???  Big grin



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Captaingomes, with all due respect, I think you're still missing the point. In the U.S., no one can tell Catholic Schools what to do because they're privately funded. If you go to a Catholic School in the U.S., you know exactly what you're getting yourself into, mainly an institution which abides by Catholic teaching. You have no right to be homosexual, etc., but every right to go to a public school if you don't agree.

See the difference?


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

Hepkat, I did aknowledge that difference, and I did say that it is the reason for the board's problems, but in the end, it is outsiders who are admitedly publicly supporting the board who are governing the catholic school board and not letting it go about its business in its own, law abiding ways. I do understand that point, but there shouldn't be so much outside interference with this entity just because outsiders think some way that is differently than this entity. It is because of the Constitution that they are publicly funded (and I'm sure they enjoy the money), but does that mean that they can't do things their own way without outsiders budding their noses? It sounds discriminatory, but in the end Catholic school boards are there to serve Catholics, even if funded by everybody. It's one of the quirks of Canada's Constitution, and from my understanding, one of those things which Canada "gave in" to the French. I forget exactly what the link is, but it does have something to do with the French. I'm sure Neil will fill in the blanks!!!  Smile Too me, that is not enough reason to justify everybody telling them what to do, even if they have no part of the Catholic school board.

I whole heartedly believe in individual rights, but group rights are going down the drain. A decision such as this and such a precedent with the ruling, should be something that is more well thought out, and a process which takes into account many factors.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

Another thing is, this guy has the right to go to a public school too. It is also publicly funded here in Canada (just like the Catholic school board). It should make little difference whether the school board is publicly funded or not. They should still have the right to think their own ways. They obviously have "customers" for their schools, and if people weren't happy, they'd change to Public schools.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
25 Hepkat : I believe someone said it really well when they said it's as if they want to have their cake and eat it too. Either you don't accept public funding wh
26 Captaingomes : Then in that case, there is no difference between a Catholic school system and a public school system and it should be changed in the Constitution tha
27 Post contains images Captaingomes : I just looked at Hepkat's profile, and he's a forum moderator. Ok ok, I agree, it's publicly funded, and all gays should go to Catholic schools and go
28 Hepkat : You had better agree!
29 Captaingomes : LOL Hepkat ... ok, I'll agree to disagree.
30 Lufthansausa : Captaingomes- As a Catholic I'd like to point out a few things: 1) The church has not relaxed its stance on birth control. Even after the Lambeth Conf
31 Yyz717 : The student body at this high school was 100% behind the gay student. I wonder how many of these Catholic teens were totally offended by the school bo
32 Lufthansausa : Yyz717 I'm going to make an assumption here, if I am wrong, forgive me. Let me guess: you are not a Roman Catholic. The prejudice against Roman Cathol
33 Yyz717 : Actually, I'm Protestant. But that does not mean that I'm prejudiced against any Catholics. But I will criticize the RC church (or any church) when I
34 Lufthansausa : So, since its 2002, the church should give up its morals that are 2,000 years old, and still current...not likely. Its not prejudice against gay kids
35 Mcdougald : Captaingomes wrote: "I whole heartedly believe in individual rights, but group rights are going down the drain." When the two come into conflict, grou
36 Lufthansausa : Mcdougald-It is unfortunate that people like you don't listen to these "blunt" orders from the church. If you are unwilling to change your life to liv
37 Yyz717 : So Lufthansausa, if you're such a devout RC, are you willing to admit you're a virgin (since you're a teen, and I presume not married)? Are you willin
38 Lufthansausa : Yyz717: Yes Yes Yes Whats the problem?
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