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Soccer/Football, Politics And Crime......  
User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 1986 times:
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So back in 94, I remember that Columbian player got shot after an OWN GOAL in his net vs. USA.

Then last night ESPN runs a documentary about it. Of course, I really did hear much in terms of details about it back then. So I was shocked to a degree learning about the background to the story.

I highly recommend TWO ESCOBARS.
Then espn puts out a story about an accusation of Italy buying the cup:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-c...aying-italy-buy-win?cc=5901&ver=us

Now, we all know Italy would NEVER do that, right? But in all seriousness, does it peeve anyone else hearing about these types of stories and how they relate to a sport?

That Columbia story, while I knew of the incident, really pissed me off. I'd love to see Columbia back in action on the World stage.


I love most sports. I love the action. But boy do I get pissed when politics and crime lead to people throwing games?
Lies, betrayal, backstabbing. While some here might enjoy the drama, I find it so self-defeating. Its ruthless and done most times with a smile on a face.

At the end of the day, its just about the fans and the game....and $$$, dont get me wrong. But let it be clean money thats earned!


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

That was an excellent documentary. Very Moving, and I really got a lot out of it. I recommend anyone who enjoys the beautiful game to watch it.


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Yep, an amazing production. What shocked me the most was the drug money flowing into the Columbian Football Federation (laundering) and everybody knew about it, but turned a blind eye...


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineDelboy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

Blimey, saw the thread title and I thought it was all about John Terry and his dodgy family.

User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1812 times:
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Whats the deal with John Terry and his family? More lies betrayal and backstabbing?

Sounds like more of the same crap when it should be about the sport.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineeicvd From Ireland, joined Mar 2008, 2152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 4):
Whats the deal with John Terry and his family? More lies betrayal and backstabbing?

Shop lifting & drug dealing, thats the deal with John Terry's family.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Thread starter):
That Columbia story, while I knew of the incident, really pissed me off. I'd love to see Columbia back in action on the World stage.

Don't know of any Columbia story, but if you mean Colombia, I remember back in the day hearing about the Escobar murder on TV. Back then I thought that he was related to Pablo Escobar, hence why he was murdered as well.

On the sports side of things, the problem with Colombia this time around was, among many issues, the manager that they had. When they hired the new manager, it was already too late to undo the damage done under Pinto.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1629 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
On the sports side of things, the problem with Colombia this time around was, among many issues, the manager that they had. When they hired the new manager, it was already too late to undo the damage done under Pinto.

That, and I think you have to note that the level inside Conmebol has been increasing. Now is not just Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay, but you also have to take care of Ecuador and even Venezuela. Things are not getting easier.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 7):
That, and I think you have to note that the level inside Conmebol has been increasing. Now is not just Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay, but you also have to take care of Ecuador and even Venezuela.

Don't forget how Chile changed from the embarassment they were in the latter days of Nelson Acosta as manager, to a serious contender for minimum quarterfinales under Marcelo Bielsa. But there are also teams that are just FUBAR (for lack of a better word). Those teams are currently Peru and Bolivia.


User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1638 times:
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Quoting eicvd (Reply 5):
thats the deal with John Terry's family.

What team do they represent?

As far as politics goes, I've been enjoying watching Argentina's run this year. Did a bit of reading up to see that Maradona is a huge Chavez supporter. I didnt expect to read about that and quite frankly, I don't feel his politics have a place in the sport.


With the stories above, one wonders if sports have become any cleaner.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

I recorded the documentary on my DVR and finally got to watch it a couple of days ago. What an exceptional piece of documentary filmmaking. If you haven't seen it, find a way to do so.

I was skeptical of the 30 for 30 series at first, but I was sold after watching just a couple. They really have all been very good. I also really liked "The U" and "Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. the New York Knicks".



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1241 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1580 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 9):
As far as politics goes, I've been enjoying watching Argentina's run this year. Did a bit of reading up to see that Maradona is a huge Chavez supporter. I didnt expect to read about that and quite frankly, I don't feel his politics have a place in the sport.

I guess you haven't been following football for that long?
Or even have much understanding about what the sport grow out of and how it became the worlds biggest and most watched game.
This was a working class sport. Poor kids played football, rich kids played rugby etc etc.

In Europe and alot of South America football is a mirror of society. society consists of many political beliefs. the poorer a country's population is the more extreme these political beliefs usually are.

Its different in the US, there politics is rightwing(republicans) or right of centre/centre (democrats).
In Europe and South America things are very very different.
There you have rightwing, liberal (most often on the righthand side of politics) centrists, socialists and leftwingers. These are mainstream beliefs and choices.
To simplify it; the poorer you are, the more to the left you tend to vote. (This is a huge generalisation but...)
That Maradona a man that grew up very poor would be sympathetic to a man like Chavez (extreme leftwinger) is thus no huge surprise. That he idolises fellow countryman Che Guevara and his old comrade in arms Fidel seems almost natural.
Besides and Fidel must have very very high approval figures among players and ultras in general. Politics and football have always walked hand in hand.

Now Maradona is hardly alone in having outspoken political beliefs.
Thierry Henry sporting his Che shirts, Xavier Zanetti fellow Argentinian and captain of Inter organising campaigns to assist the Zapatistas in Mexico etc etc.
In England legendary managers like Clough, Ferguson and Shankly have all been outspoken labour men.
Scholes, The " red Nevilles", Stevie G, Ferdinand etc are all firmly from the left side of politics and outspoken about it.

On the other side, stars like P. Di Canio an Italian fascist, S Mihailovic a rightwing serbian player.

Football is the peoples game and as such I find it refreshing when footballers have real life views. I might not share their views but I prefer men like Di Canio and Maradona to PR educated and controlled stars any day.

What I suggest is further reading about football and politics. You can see that most clubs have a clear political background. Most being labourclubs. but you can also see that clubs have supporters with very strong political beliefs.
Lazio and its ultras being a re-knowned right wing club for example. Glasgow Celtic being leftwing.
Real Madrid right / FC Barcelona left. Paris SG right, OM left.
the list goes on, its also rather interesting to read about special clubs where politics is at the heart of the identity.
FC St Pauli from Germany is such a club. Google them, youtube them.

Lazio / Hellas Verona contra Livorno or Atalanta in Italy. Different sides to the Italian footballing and supporting map. Listen to their songs see their tifos and understand what the clubs souls are like.
Its educating.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1540 times:
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Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
I guess you haven't been following football for that long?
Or even have much understanding about what the sport grow out of

See, thats the thing. I follow the games but the background politics never really hit the mainstream here in the US...and if they do, its far overshadowed by nonsense such as who A-rod is dating this week.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
(This is a huge generalisation but...)
That Maradona a man that grew up very poor would be sympathetic to a man like Chavez (extreme leftwinger) is thus no huge surprise. That he idolises fellow countryman Che Guevara and his old comrade in arms Fidel seems almost natural.

I agree its a bit of a generalization since I know plenty of Argentine and Columbine's who don't subscribe to that. But that is from my skewed perspective from a limited sample.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
Politics and football have always walked hand in hand.

As I am seeing. That Two Escobars movie just really brought it to the forefront though, I think for Americans, at least.



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