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This Is Why Having A Gun Is/can Be Useful  
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2777 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

I really don't want to start up a full thread about guns, but watching this video, it really showed why owning a gun CAN be useful. Who knows what could have happened if he didn't have a gun?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9fc_1279239950


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

But what if they had guns and fired back? What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them? I am very pro gun, but there are numerous situations in which a video like this could be spun. In this case, the perps were unarmed, which the homeowner is very lucky that they were.With that being said, I think he took the right course of action because I would have done the same thing.


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3444 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
But what if they had guns and fired back?

That rarely ever happens. Criminals almost always flee, specially in a situation like this one where they could not see where the shots were coming from.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them?

If you're a law abiding citizen, then you sure as hell have no reason to be expecting law enforcement to come tearing down your door.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

In Colorado we have the make my day law that says we can shoot anyone who breaks into our house and defend our property. If someone is stupid enough to try to pull that they are going to be playing with their own life. I am a very hard Democrat but if someone is coming into my house I am going to be sure they don't make it back out alive.


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4903 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 3):
I am a very hard Democrat but if someone is coming into my house I am going to be sure they don't make it back out alive.

Including Dinner guests?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
But what if they had guns and fired back?

That is why you aim carefully  
Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
but there are numerous situations in which a video like this could be spun

I more often disagree than agree with you, but this is a valid point. Though I am sure this guy could tell they weren't real FBI agents. Not saying he did, but seeing these blundering idiots, I would've been able to tell. No SOP operates the way these clowns were acting



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2775 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 4):
Including Dinner guests?

Well there's a hint as to what he's serving.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
I really don't want to start up a full thread about guns, but watching this video, it really showed why owning a gun CAN be useful

...and why there needs to be a new bill signed into law protecting those who use their constitutional rights to protect their property and themselves...

...so that a person cannot file suit against anyone for any injury or personal suffering sustained while in the act of committing a crime against that person or his property.

You break into my house, and I shoot your ass and you wind up in the hospital, sorry, but you were committing the act of breaking and entering, which is a felony. You pay damages to me, buddy; not the other way around, whether it be monetary compensation or a community service/debt to society.

I hate these frivolous lawsuits that criminals file because they got hurt. So it's the property owner's fault that someone was mauled by a guard dog or shot at because they were someplace they had no permission going to? If you ask me, criminals really do not deserve any rights or privilages. If you're hurt while doing something stupid and foolish, such as committing a crime, sorry, but you forfeit your constitutional rights. The only rights you'll have afterwards are the ones read to you as you're carted off to the slammer!



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

*shrugs*


User currently offlinemls515 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3077 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3262 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

*shrugs*

Same goes for a swimming pool in your back yard too.....


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 4):
Including Dinner guests?

I sure would like to send my in-laws out the door like that when they come for dinner! Does that count!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinecadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 4):
Including Dinner guests?

Well, reply 4... took longer than I expected.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

Care to prove that? Don't hear of many homeowners who were defending their property getting shot. Usually its the other way around.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21882 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
If you're a law abiding citizen, then you sure as hell have no reason to be expecting law enforcement to come tearing down your door.

Unless they got the warrant wrong, or the address on it. Which has happened.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3225 times:

These people who commit crimes like this is never going to learn, and it is sad really.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 8):
You break into my house, and I shoot your ass and you wind up in the hospital, sorry, but you were committing the act of breaking and entering, which is a felony. You pay damages to me, buddy; not the other way around, whether it be monetary compensation or a community service/debt to society.

Agreed 100%!!!! The Colorado "Make My Day" law needs to extend to the ENTIRE property, not just the dwelling. It is quite disturbing that you are not allowed to defend your property except for the contents inside the home, not outside. It's more like "take all you want, it is not in the house". That needs to change.

Like the case of the 82 year old man who is being charged for attempted murder. The illegal aliens were trying to steal his trailer that was in his driveway. What was the 82 year old supposed to do? Stand there and watch and say good-bye to the trailer? He wasn't gonna let those goons win.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

I am all for being able to protect your home with a gun, not real crazy about a trigger happy neighbor lighting someone up in their yard though, excited people tend to forget their background when trying to hit a target at night.
Now if I had a few bean bag rounds in the old 12 guage, I would have some fun if someone came in my yard univited 


User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3146 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
Agreed 100%!!!! The Colorado "Make My Day" law needs to extend to the ENTIRE property, not just the dwelling. It is quite disturbing that you are not allowed to defend your property except for the contents inside the home, not outside. It's more like "take all you want, it is not in the house". That needs to change.

Like the case of the 82 year old man who is being charged for attempted murder. The illegal aliens were trying to steal his trailer that was in his driveway. What was the 82 year old supposed to do? Stand there and watch and say good-bye to the trailer? He wasn't gonna let those goons win.

I find it hard to believe that anything in a trailer is worth more than a human life. For that matter, I find it hard to believe that anything in a house, short of the lives of the occupants, is worth more than a human life. If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. To that end, if i'm ever in that situation, i'll fully cooperate with them, i can replace whatever they take, i can't replace myself.

When I did Pizza delivery eons ago, the first and hardest thing they pounded into our heads on the subject of being held up was "Don't be a hero" and "Your money is replaceable, you're not." If I have to translate it, that means give the thief what he wants and do as you're told, don't try to fight him off.

Vigilanteism and bravado aside, just ask a police officer how emotionally difficult it is to have to kill someone, even if your life is being threatened. You may feel a rush of adrenaline to draw down and nail some perp in the head, and the police may agree that you were justified in shooting that unarmed teenager who broke into your house, but, unless you have no conscience, once the adrenaline subsides it will be replaced with guilt and self doubt because in the end you have a dead kid and for what reason? to protect a bunch of furniture that can easily be replaced.

IMO we place too little value on human life and too much value on replaceable possessions, it should never be okay to kill someone, regardless of the situation. Unfortunately we live in a society where the gun wackos have told us it's okay to value items over other human beings. The items can always be replaced, the people can't.



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. To that end, if i'm ever in that situation, i'll fully cooperate with them, i can replace whatever they take, i can't replace myself.

But, do you trust a person that has just broken into your house, when they say they will not harm you? I sure would not!!
Do you really think they are going to say," we are about to kill you and your family"?
Yes, taking any life sux, but sometimes life does not afford second chances!
My problem is, if a person breaks into someone's house or tries to rob them, they should accept the chance, that they could lose their life, even if doing harm was not their intent. My job is to protect my family and myself from harm, not try to read the mind of a person, that has just broken into my home.


User currently offlinefridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3091 times:
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Interesting debate all.

As some of you know, I'm very Pro-Gun. I support the guy in the video and Colorado's law. Whenever I'm back in the US, I practice a lot with my handguns and rifles as I shoot competition when I can.

With that said,

"EVERYBODY WHO OWNS A GUN SHOULD HAVE PROPER INSTRUCTION AND PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

If you don't get proper instruction and practice, you're a danger to yourself and those around you!

If you don't know where to get it, ask your local gun dealer or local law enforcement.



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them?

Pretty clear they are fake. That is NOT how the FBI serves a warrant. They would first pound on the door and yell FBI we are here to serve you a warrant... if no response they would use a ram and open the door. There would be more then 3 of them and they would not show up in a Benz SUV



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
But what if they had guns and fired back?

Really? Work your way through that one. What if they had guns and gained entry to the house?

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 1):
What if they were real FBI agents who were serving a warrant and he shot at them?

Though, there was no audio, and I we can't tell what the verbal interaction is, I assume it was not the professional exchange that you'd expect if the FBI was trying to gain forceable entry to serve a warrant. In other words, if a law-enforcement agency is going to boot in your door to serve you, they don't do it in this amateurish way depicted on the video. They come whole-hog.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
I think statistics show that you're more likely to have a bad ending by having a gun in your home.

And skydivers have are more likely to die skydiving tha non-skydivers. Drivers more likely to die driving than non-drivers. Golfers are more likely to die golfing than non-golfers. We can go on forever.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 15):
Now if I had a few bean bag rounds in the old 12 guage,

I'm seriously considerig a bean-bag round for my shotgun. Say, the first 2 are beanbag. If that hasn't stopped the intruder, some 3", #4 ought to do it.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones.

I agree that nothing in the house is worth my life of the lives my family, but that does not extend to the intruder. How do I know that someone who has already broken the law is going to be satisfied with what I provide him willingly? What if he wants more and we don't have more? Or, what if he wants what only my wife or daughter can provide? What if he just makes his little 'promise' of no harm just to gain compliance and ease? Sorry, break into my house, get past the dogs, you will meet the business end of one of my firearms. Whether I shoot or not will depend on your immediate actions when confronted by me (or a family member).

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
Unfortunately we live in a society where the gun wackos have told us it's okay to value items over other human beings.

How's this? I don't consider someone who preys upon others as a human being...at least not to the point where I will extend to them any sympathy or advantage. Break into my house and, given the opportunity, I will defend myself until you are no longer a threat.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 16):
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
If someone breaks into my house, they can have anything they want as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. To that end, if i'm ever in that situation, i'll fully cooperate with them, i can replace whatever they take, i can't replace myself.

But, do you trust a person that has just broken into your house, when they say they will not harm you? I sure would not!!

I agree with that. Sometimes using deadly force is justifiable. There are no guarantees that the burglar will not harm you at all. In most cases, IIRC, the burglar is the one that does bodily harm than anything else. That is why you should always be prepared and never negotiate with the thief.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 17):
"EVERYBODY WHO OWNS A GUN SHOULD HAVE PROPER INSTRUCTION AND PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

And get a CCW!!! That helps somewhat and shows that one is a responsible person enough to own a firearm.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinephatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1365 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
Like the case of the 82 year old man who is being charged for attempted murder. The illegal aliens were trying to steal his trailer that was in his driveway. What was the 82 year old supposed to do? Stand there and watch and say good-bye to the trailer? He wasn't gonna let those goons win.

Florida's "Stand your ground" law has had cases like the above quoted scenario tested in a courtroom. In this instance, it failed because the thieves were NOT threatening the lives of their victims.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1725 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

The people in the video don't look your typical burglar, though. Driving a Benz and a extremely sloppy way of trying to break in.

User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2868 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 3):
I am a very hard Democrat but if someone is coming into my house I am going to be sure they don't make it back out alive.

Really. So in a "premeditated" way you would kill someone that enters you house. It´s not self defense if it's been decided ahead of time.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 21):
In this instance, it failed because the thieves were NOT threatening the lives of their victims.

So does that make it ok for the thieves to go on someone's property and take what is not theirs??



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
25 phatfarmlines : That's not what I was inferring. I do agree with you that it is not okay for thieves to take someone's property; however, the law states that as long
26 cadet57 : Castle Doctrine. Look it up.
27 steeler83 : Ok, maybe I wouldn't intentionally kill someone just for breaking onto my property, but I am going to defend it. If they come at me and in some way t
28 DocLightning : My bent, as a physician, is to look at this through the lens of risk/benefit. Anecdotes are useful, but only in a very limited way. A reliance on anec
29 Alias1024 : Given some very recent events involving someone trying to gain access to my neighbor's home, I've been considering getting something for home defense.
30 DocLightning : Has it occurred to you that there are other ways to incapacitate and intruder while causing less damage and avoiding a murder charge on the off chanc
31 EA CO AS : Not always, particularly in cases where that someone is on drugs.
32 Alias1024 : I have no children so no worries on that front. As for the mace, I don't intend to let an intruder get close enough for me to be able to use it. They
33 fr8mech : Nope. I took a face-full about 20 years ago. I'm sure I could have still fired a gun for the first 10 seconds or so. Accurately? No. But, I could sti
34 DeltaMD90 : This figure is probably true (I didn't look it up but I'll take your word for it.) I believe, however, that most of these cases can be eliminated if
35 Post contains links and images steeler83 : Right... You know, I actually looked up the Bill of Rights, and there is no such right in there, so I guess there really is no Constitutional right t
36 stratosphere : Yep and the Castle Doctrine has been extended to your car also atleast here in MS anyway. Me personally I was held up at gunpoint right in front of m
37 DocLightning : In which case, a bullet might not stop them, either, unless it hits JUST the right place. The difference is that if you kill an intruder with illegal
38 MD11Engineer : It depends. Over here, if police is expecting to arrest a suspected dangerous criminal (e.g. somebody who is known or suspected to be armed and suspe
39 KaiGywer : As others have stated also, not really. I took a faceful a few months back, and while it hurt like hell, I still had to handcuff my instructor after
40 fr8mech : Defense in depth. In my home, the doors and windows act as step one. Then the would be intruder would have to get through my dogs. I should have plen
41 DeltaMD90 : Well when I grow up I imagine I'll have all my guns locked up, and the handgun I will usually carry will be in my night stand at night but with me du
42 DocLightning : Then you increase your chances of a member of your family dying from a gun by 3x. Can't win.
43 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Just by leaving it out at night? That would mean the kid would have to 1: know where I keep it at night and 2: sneak in my room in the middle of the
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