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25% Of Americans Still Believe Obama Foreign-born?  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

As the song says..."say it ain't so". You'd like to think that we live in a country of reasonable people, capable of reasonable thought, with reasonable expectations of themselves and others. Then you see things like this and just have to wonder who the hell our fellow citizens really are. Being out of the country for a few years, I realize I was a bit out of touch with the true level of acrimony in politics, but this is a blinding example of things having gone too far. Not liking someone, even a President, fine! But I seriously thought this birther crap was mostly behind us save for a few crackpots here and there who are the right-wing equivalent of the morons who don't buy the 9/11 story.

Now I'm trained in statistics and recognize that ~1,000 is a mostly meaningless sample size, but nonetheless the responses are there and do have some intrinsic meaning. Namely that the people who answered in the 27% are a few short of a full set if they really believe the Republican governor of Hawai'i, public records staff of Hawai'i and Obama's grandparents all the way back to the summer of '61 were involved in some conspiracy to get him elected President. Because yes folks, that's what you'd have to accept as fact to buy these theories.

On President Barack Obama’s birthday, a new CNN/Opinion Research released Wednesday shows 41 percent of Republicans believe Obama was “probably” or “definitely” born in another country.

The poll of 1,018 adults shows 27 percent of Americans believe the president was “probably” or “definitely” born in another country, compared with 71 percent who think he was born in the United States.

Among the 285 self-identified Republicans polled, however, the percentage who think Obama was born outside of the country spikes to 41 percent, with 57 percent believing he was born in the United States.

Nineteen percent of independents think Obama was “probably” or “definitely” born in another country, as do 15 percent of Democrats. CNN/Opinion Research surveyed 398 independents and 335 Democrats for the poll.


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/40644.html

Two separate independent fact-check treatises from two different non-partisan groups that spend all their time catching politicians of all stripes in mistruths:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me.../obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

This is gold:

At PolitiFact.com, we're all about original sources. We don't take anyone at their word or take the reporting of other media organizations as proof. We go to the heart of the story, the source of the truth — original, corroborating documents.

When the official documents were questioned, we went looking for more answers. We circled back to the Department of Health, had a newsroom colleague bring in her own Hawaii birth certificate to see if it looks the same (it's identical). But every answer triggered more questions.

And soon enough, after going to every length possible to confirm the birth certificate's authenticity, you start asking, what is reasonable here?

Because if this document is forged, then they all are.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19371 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3371 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
As the song says..."say it ain't so". You'd like to think that we live in a country of reasonable people, capable of reasonable thought, with reasonable expectations of themselves and others.

We don't and we never did, which is precisely why our founders were very careful to not make this a direct democracy.


User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Unbelievable that we're seriously discussing the fact that 1 in 4 citizens in this Country believe that our President is serving illegally. How can people still buy into this crap? The "birthers" need to get over it. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, he was elected President by a majority of citizens in this Country, and he is therefore your President whether you like him or not. As Aaron suggests, you can hate the President all you want (I am certainly no fan of former President Bush), but these lies about President Obama's citizenship status need to end. If you they were just making laughingstocks of themselves, I wouldn't so much mind, but the fact that they're embarrassing all of us with this "birther" crap is unacceptable.

[Edited 2010-08-08 01:05:43]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineAeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

i really don't believe that number. Just seems awfully high. 25% of x amount polled (and when and where).

User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8438 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

This constant drum beating about Obamas place of birth and in this token his religion I think is driving some into doubt, this is not about disliking the presidents policies, this about the hatred of the man, his family and those who are not opposed to all of his policies. Like I said before no birth certificate presented to them will ever convince them that he was born in America, the birther movement is to deny that he is an American and to de legitimize the election as well as those who take a different view from their cultural interpretation of what defines America.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19371 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

This comes from http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/.

This blog is chiefly about scientific denialism. The current denialism that is a pain in my butt is the anti-vaccine claptrap that has resulted in the worst pertussis epidemic in California in decades.

In this case, it isn't about science, but it is about truth. The ultimate example is point (4). The Birthers want to know "why hasn't he produced his full-form birth certificate?" Well, he has. But that birth certificate, they claim, could be a forgery. They want the FULL-FORM birth certificate. The catch is: there ain't no such animal. By their standards, none of them, not even themselves, could prove that they are born U.S. citizens.

Quote:
How to be a denialist Martin McKee, an epidemiologist at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine who also studies denial, has identified six tactics that all denialist movements use. "I'm not suggesting there is a manual somewhere, but one can see these elements, to varying degrees, in many settings," he says (The European Journal of Public Health, vol 19, p 2).
1. Allege that there's a conspiracy. Claim that scientific consensus has arisen through collusion rather than the accumulation of evidence.
2. Use fake experts to support your story. "Denial always starts with a cadre of pseudo-experts with some credentials that create a facade of credibility," says Seth Kalichman of the University of Connecticut.
3. Cherry-pick the evidence: trumpet whatever appears to support your case and ignore or rubbish the rest. Carry on trotting out supportive evidence even after it has been discredited.
4. Create impossible standards for your opponents. Claim that the existing evidence is not good enough and demand more. If your opponent comes up with evidence you have demanded, move the goalposts.
5. Use logical fallacies. Hitler opposed smoking, so anti-smoking measures are Nazi. Deliberately misrepresent the scientific consensus and then knock down your straw man.
6. Manufacture doubt. Falsely portray scientists as so divided that basing policy on their advice would be premature. Insist "both sides" must be heard and cry censorship when "dissenting" arguments or experts are rejected.

We see it over and over again.
Global Warming
Vaccines
Obama's birthplace
Healthcare --> Communism
Evolution
HIV-AIDS link


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 2):
As Aaron suggests, you can hate the President all you want (I certainly was no fan of former President Bush), but these lies about President Obama's citizenship status need to end.

Through some digging on local discussion boards, it seems the good denizens here in Honolulu are pretty amused by all this. Even though the state doesn't grant access to hospital records to people other than family and such apparently it's no secret among current and former staff at Kapi'olani Hospital that he was born there, and there's people around town who remember his parents as well.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 3):
i really don't believe that number. Just seems awfully high. 25% of x amount polled (and when and where).

They posted the data here:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 4):
Like I said before no birth certificate presented to them will ever convince them that he was born in America, the birther movement is to deny that he is an American

Well that's the whole point I'm trying to make - I want to believe that at some point people are reasonable. If not then they are just plain dumb when the logic is right there in front of them. Case in point:

We talked to reporter Will Hoover, who wrote a well-researched story for the Honolulu Advertiser on Nov. 9, 2008, about Obama's childhood years in the the Aloha State. It ran under the headline "Obama Slept Here."

In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13 , 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day . They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."

But here's the thing. Newspaper officials he checked with confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.

"That's not the kind of stuff a family member calls in and says, 'Hey, can you put this in?'" Hoover explained.

Take a second and think about that. In order to phony those notices up, it would have required the complicity of the state Health Department and two independent newspapers — on the off chance this unnamed child might want to one day be president of the United States.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...bbs-lied-when-he-said-obamas-birt/

So, in other words, the Hawai'i Department of Health and local newspapers, ostensibly with the help of Obama's family, started this conspiracy in 1961. If anyone can actually believe that, I'd like to know how many medications they're on!



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

Why do the US discriminate between natural-born citizens and naturalized citizens in the first place?

I think it is a disgrace to any democratic country naturalized citizens see their rights constititionally limited as if they are some sort of second class citizens, which can never fully be trusted!


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting slz396 (Reply 7):
Why do the US discriminate between natural-born citizens and naturalized citizens in the first place?

It goes all the way back to the founding of the US. The founding fathers were afraid that some European royalty might take on an American citizenship just to become president and then re-establish a monarchy. Remember, more than 25% of the population of the original US were outspoken loyalists in favour of being British. Napoleon Bonaparte e.g. put a relative on the then vacant throne of Sweden, Count Bernadotte, whom he thought would then support him as a proxy. Only that Count Bernadotte, once he was King of Sweden, suddenly strongly supported Sweden´s interests and fought against his relative.
Napoleon also planted relatives all over Europe to rule conquered territories.
Later his nephew Napoleon III tried unsuccessfully to install a relative as Emperor of Mexico.

Jan


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2978 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

All this is doing is making Obama look as a victim. I wouldn't be surprised that this gets so out of hand that it'll help him get elected instead of an opponent.


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
We don't and we never did, which is precisely why our founders were very careful to not make this a direct democracy.

To quote Urquhart from To Play the King, "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment"   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
This comes from http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/.

Hope you have that in clipboard ready to post in 30% of other thread in non-av!!!!


User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2726 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3089 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
All this is doing is making Obama look as a victim.

Exactly. Awww poor lil' Barry. Everyone is so mean to him!   

Who really G.A.F. what 1000 people think? They have a right to their own opinions.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlinePacNWjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 957 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

This is now a game being played between the White House and the "birthers." The state of Hawaii has issued the "certificate of live birth," but not the long form birth certificate, the release of which requires the permission of the individual in question or someone with a personal interest in it (the certificate of live birth is an abbreviated document with some details in the long form birth certificate left out). The refusal of the White House to authorize the release of the long form birth certificate has led the "birthers" to suspect that there is something in the birth certificate that the White House is trying to hide (perhaps something not in any way related to the location of Obama's birth). The White House, in turn, declines to authorize the release of the birth certificate in order to paint opponents of Obama as nut case lunatics who don't believe he was born in the United States. Like I say, this is now just a game with each side seeking to paint the other as having a nefarious agenda, but with both sides looking pretty stupid.

User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2963 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

This survey pretty much tells us that 25% Of the usa's population are idiots! These people need to stop. It's stupid. They believe that there has been a 49 year conspiracy or something.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39684 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 17):
This survey pretty much tells us that 25% Of the usa's population are idiots!

  

Sarah Palin is part of this group.
A lot of these people think that the earth is still flat.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2993 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 12):
Who really G.A.F. what 1000 people think? They have a right to their own opinions.

I do, and so do most thinking people in this country. The fact that 1 in 4 in this country believe that our President is serving his term illegally is embarrassing. That they believe that all 51 Secretaries of State, and the Republican (yes Republican) governor of Hawaii are in on some giant conspiracy to falsify birth records is unbelievable. The fact that the "birthers" claim that Obama is not their present is un-American. So yeah, I think we, as a country, should care that these idiots are out there spouting lies.

Quoting KPDX (Reply 15):
LOL!

I assume you are joking, correct?

Here you are chastising "poor Barry", then you immediately jump in to suggest that GWB was a victime too. Ironic? Hypocritical?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7801 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2977 times:

Well you gotta realize some people vote in polls stupidly. Like "I don't like Obama so I'm gonna vote in this poll that he is Kenyan" or whatever. A lot of us are guilty of doing something like that. I doubt 25% really believe that


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2726 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2967 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Here you are chastising "poor Barry", then you immediately jump in to suggest that GWB was a victime too. Ironic? Hypocritical?

First off in my "poor Barry" post, I was being completely sarcastic in response to einsteinboricua's post . . . I suppose I should have added a wink. But I just thought it was funny that Rara actually didn't see Bush as hated. Saying you "hate Bush" is probably one of the nicer things you could say when it came to criticizing him.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2726 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2967 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
Well you gotta realize some people vote in polls stupidly. Like "I don't like Obama so I'm gonna vote in this poll that he is Kenyan" or whatever. A lot of us are guilty of doing something like that. I doubt 25% really believe that

+1

I find myself doing that often, like it or not.  



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2957 times:

IMO, I think most people are more focused on this mainly because of Obama's middle name. The only thing I would like to know is how did his parents end up giving him the "Hussein" middle name? That makes him sound foreign.

But then again, why are we rehashing this anyway?



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2726 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 24):
But then again, why are we rehashing this anyway?

I agree.... This is stupid and shouldn't even be a discussion anymore. He is the POTUS and it should end there.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8682 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 24):
how did his parents end up giving him the "Hussein" middle name?

His father had the same names, first and middle. His grandfather's name was Hussein Onyango Obama. So the name is family tradition like millions of others.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 25):
This is stupid and shouldn't even be a discussion anymore.

As a Republican, I agree.

Quoting aloges (Reply 26):
His father had the same names, first and middle. His grandfather's name was Hussein Onyango Obama. So the name is family tradition like millions of others.

I can understand that, to keep the family name going (or what have you....) however, I don't understand why people refuse to let this go all because of his name. That is how I see it. People think of Hussein, they think of the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8682 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
I don't understand why people refuse to let this go all because of his name.

One word: Hatred, with a capital H.

He's not right-wing, he's not white, he's not a jingoist, he's not a devout Christian, so he must be a terrorist-supporting communist who will sell out "America as we know it" to anyone. Add the influence of the Murdoch Media Machine and you're guaranteed to go from frenzy to frenzy to frenzy.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12380 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2928 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 24):
That makes him sound foreign.

How does a non-foreign American name sound?

Would he sound American if his name was Running Fox or Soaring Eagle?   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
25 bjorn14 : At least they'd be "natural born"
26 Post contains links Scorpio : Well, I know of at least one hardline Republican who would probably love a president by that last name. He's even written a song for him already (any
27 windy95 : Give me a break..The hate started from day one with the supposed stolen election. The dislike right now with Obama has not even come close yet to the
28 cws818 : By this do you mean voting in a way different from you?
29 Ken777 : 1. The President is black. 2. He has a "foreign" name. 3. He is a Democrat. It's like those who believe that Cheney was the "real President" and Bush
30 mt99 : So your anger is fueled by revenge?
31 Post contains links Superfly : Secret service would disagree. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20091021/ts_ynews/ynews_ts950 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-stretching-US-Secr
32 ltbewr : I would also add: 4. He was born in Hawaii, which at the time of the now-President's birth was a very new state, a very exotic place to many American
33 Post contains images Superfly : As you may already know, I collect LPs, reel to reel tape an other vintage audio formats. At used record stores I come across tons of Hawaiian record
34 Post contains links Aeri28 : I think Elvis' Blue Hawaii introduced many to regular travel to "America's exotic eden. Our polynesian paradise.." (as said in the film trailer back i
35 OA412 : Oh please! The anti-Obama hatred in the last year and a half has risen to levels not seen with Bush or Clinton or really any other President in recen
36 Post contains links and images Superfly : ...or even better. Watch from 0:52 onward. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIFggCQv4J4
37 bjorn14 : Mullato
38 Rara : As I said, I know there was plenty of dislike and criticism, but my entirely personal opinion is that there were less instances of simply and without
39 windy95 : No Anger here. So sorry. He is... You keep on believing that Well he came out of a white womb..So he is either Bi-racial or Mullato. Is Tiger Woods T
40 OzGlobal : Rights arise from duties. No-one has a duty to deny the facts of a situation in order to maintain an ideological position. These people have no right
41 Post contains images windy95 : The Obama family has always maintained that Obama Jr. was born in Hawaii. The family has changed its story about his hospital of birth, first claiming
42 Post contains links mt99 : "Generally, Indonesian citizen is those natural Indonesian people and those of other nations that endorsed by the law as citizens. Indonesian nationa
43 windy95 : Like voting for Hope and Change.....
44 mt99 : Or voting for "family values"...
45 Post contains links and images windy95 : Well lets see http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi...06/09/10/a_new_low_in_bush_hatred/ http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...qpvt=+George+W+Bush+Na
46 Post contains links Superfly : Umm about that first photo. There IS some truth to it. Dubya's granddaddy Prescott Bush was funding the Nazis up until 1944. For someone that claims
47 windy95 : I have no control over what my grandfather did. Should Jews hold the grandsons of ex Nazis in contempt for the forefathers actions. Did This Generati
48 Superfly : That is your argument and yes it is VERY stupid! Like Hitler, Bush killed innocent people for no reason. Bush build a campaign of fear and lies to ju
49 Post contains links BAKJet : First off - http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp I guess you missed some of the stuff going on at Tea Parties.
50 Ken777 : Geez, are the Swift Boaters still active? I thought all the funny money was giong to the Tea Party these days. Remember, even the Swift Boaters thems
51 PacNWjet : Or, as I wrote in my earlier post (reply #12), the more likely scenario is that there is nothing of interest in the long form birth certificate, but
52 windy95 : The question was related to his having an honorable discharge...If he had nothing to hide why not release the original. What is so hard about that..
53 Superfly : Did all Presidents wage a campaign against a certain group of people and start wars? Be for real!
54 Post contains images windy95 : What certain group of people is that? Saddam and the Baath party. Let us think about how many incursions, wars police actions etc..that our leaders o
55 Superfly : I was referring to Hitler and Dubya. In the case with Papa Bush, Reagan, Eisenhower and Clinton, military intervention was asked from another country
56 windy95 : They did not inherit anything they could not have easily walked away from. They own Vietnam..No one else.
57 Superfly : The first military involvment was in 1958 under Eisenhower. We will never know Kennedy's goal since he was assassinated. Most escalated under Johnson
58 bjorn14 : Especially, as we get closer to 2012 and people will not want to be associated with Obama. How many pols right now have 'scheduling conflicts' when t
59 cws818 : Since you don't trust the government "one bit," why should anybody in the government waste his or her time trying to appease you? Did you forget abou
60 avent : Nonsense - the deniers would claim it was a forgery.
61 Aaron747 : What part of this don't you get - the state of Hawai'i does not dispense or allow requisition of original long form birth records. The standard short
62 avent : Yes, because a defining characteristic of the Nazi war machine was their pre-emptive wars on other nations that did not attack them. And, yes there h
63 PacNWjet : Which again will actually play into the hands of the White House. See my posts at replies # 12 and 51. The White House is benefiting from the issue b
64 avent : And if the long-form was produced the birthers would whine about the special treatment and say there was surely a cover up since apparently Obama's s
65 ipodguy7 : Until I see a birth certificate, I will remain in that 25%
66 PacNWjet : O.K., let's go over this again: Except for a tiny fraction of the "birthers" who doubt the location of Obama's birth, the majority of people who are
67 Post contains links Aaron747 : Look no further dude... http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
68 avent : I don't know whether this view is correct or not since I have no problem with Obama making the shortform available and leaving it at that. If that ge
69 PacNWjet : Yes, exactly, which is why the White House likely will eventually release the long form birth certificate to once again stir up the crazies and paint
70 avent : This is absurd. You are giving way too much power to Obama; he does not force FOX and Limbaugh or Breitbart and the rest of the republican noise mach
71 avent : Not at all true; the blame is overwhelmingly one-sided - there's hardly anything said about McCain's birth certificate. While you might not intend it
72 BN747 : Yes, the 'B' word....it's one factor few of those will admit to. It is alive and well. Boy did they get that right! They knew back in 1795 that a goo
73 Post contains links BAKJet : http://alturl.com/7stmd http://alturl.com/xdpri http://alturl.com/djmuo http://alturl.com/tfimp http://alturl.com/a5mqu http://alturl.com/rxzkf http:/
74 windy95 : No because they fell for his BS hope and change. And his centrist rhetoric. And how is that repealing of the Adoplh Bush's patriot Act going....Oh an
75 windy95 : I have never said if I do or do not believe it. I just think that it ws bad PR on his part to deal with this. It leaves many lingering questions that
76 DocLightning : Where's yours?
77 BN747 : Probably very few..if you dragged them back to the moment. The moment in time? Bush had left the country in shambles, McCain could be ...well more of
78 Aaron747 : That tells me all I need to know. How is that any of our business? I've never asked to see anyone's grades - why would you? Even if someone puts magn
79 Post contains links Ken777 : If Gore didn't have an Honorable Discharge his political opponents would have had it sneaked to their favorite political media a long time ago. It wo
80 Post contains images OA412 : Care to admit you were wrong in claiming that only Bush was compared to Hitler? Indeed. Please post so that we may all examine it. Please post your t
81 Baroque : Reads thread, shakes head. And they dare to call Ahmadinejad mad! It would be great if it turned out he was lke Macduff from the Scottish play. Then t
82 soon7x7 : Where this man came from is irrelevant at this juncture...where he is going with his administration is relevant however...I do believe all the suits i
83 avent : Nonsense. You're making a feeble attempt to portray yourself as being open-minded and not having an opinion one way or the other. Look at what you wr
84 OA412 : Indeed. As does refusing to call Pres Obama a Black or African American President.[Edited 2010-08-10 09:45:24]
85 bjorn14 : Technically, he wasn't he was born in the Zone but at the public hospital in Colon about a mile from the PCZ. The Naval Hospital wasn't built until a
86 KPDX : Can someone tell me how his skin color is relevent? Just wondering, thanks.
87 OA412 : You want to pretend that there are not those in this country who hate President Obama simply because of the color of his skin, fine by me, but I pref
88 KPDX : Ahhhhhh, SO SO easy to play the racism card. Sooo soo easy.
89 avent : I'll try. While it is not supposed to be relevant in theory, in practice we have a history marked by social abuses based on skin color. It is also re
90 bjorn14 : You keep saying that but I have yet to offer the proof as you ask me for in any claim that I might make.
91 KPDX : Right, so thats why liberals always make sure to bring that up..... I get it. Wait... What?
92 avent : Thanks for the demo!
93 avent : Bring what up? If you want to be seen offereing a response, then I suppose this is ok. If you'd like us to think you have a coherent response, you se
94 OA412 : Like I said, we can pretend that there aren't some people in this country who hate the President because of the color of his skin, or we can face rea
95 Aaron747 : Social Security Numbers are assigned numbers coded as the state the processing office is located in. Simple research would tell you that's so. Obama'
96 OA412 : Probably from something like obamalies.net
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