LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22251 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2241 times:
An eye for an eye boys.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
ManuCH From Switzerland, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 2977 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2242 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
The key here is:
Quote: Such measures are against international conventions against torture and international standards on human rights.
I certainly hope that they can't move forward with this, and that it was only a (failed) attempt at a PR stunt.
cpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 44 Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2227 times:
It's exceptionally and extraordinarily cruel and barbaric.
There can be no justification for it, of any kind. I don't care what anyone says - because I simply will not accept any justification for it.
Justice can be served by more conventional means, just as we do in other countries where someone can be imprisoned for life. That's plenty of time for the convicted criminal to think about their actions, and all the things in life they will no longer be able to do.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2215 times:
Quoting cpd (Reply 4): There can be no justification for it, of any kind. I don't care what anyone says - because I simply will not accept any justification for it
Who's gonna stop them? Is it really worth pissing off the Saudis (who have lot of oil of course) over one man's cruel and unusual punishment? Of course not. The only way this doesn't happen is if the king or other officials step in or the doctors won't do it. It won't be the international community because, to put it bluntly, it isn't our problem.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
ManuCH From Switzerland, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 2977 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2213 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5): It won't be the international community because, to put it bluntly, it isn't our problem.
I usually agree with this. But when a state starts to openly punish its citizens, there must be a way to do something. For once let's hope that the NGOs do their job well.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2206 times:
Quoting cpd (Reply 4): Justice can be served by more conventional means, just as we do in other countries where someone can be imprisoned for life. That's plenty of time for the convicted criminal to think about their actions, and all the things in life they will no longer be able to do.
Yes, but we both know that 9 times out of 10 people who commit terrible crimes, more often than not get a slap on the wrist.
Is that justice ?
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5): It won't be the international community because, to put it bluntly, it isn't our problem.
Lets hope were learning from our past "interferences" and stay out of it!
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 6): there must be a way to do something.
Dialogue and only dialogue.
[Edited 2010-08-19 23:55:15]
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
FX772LRF From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 675 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2201 times:
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
-Mohandas Gandhi
-Noah.
Cleared to IAH via CLL 076 radial/BAZBL/RIICE3, up to 3k, 7k in 10, departure on 134.3, squawk 4676, Colgan 9581.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2195 times:
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 6): I usually agree with this. But when a state starts to openly punish its citizens, there must be a way to do something. For once let's hope that the NGOs do their job well.
What course of action is there to take that will be effective and not potentially harmful to us? Basically the best we can do is say "We really don't like you doing this, but don't worry. We'll still buy your oil and sell you hundreds of millions of dollars worth of military equipment." Quite frankly, Saudi oil and relations are more important to us than some guy being able to walk. It might not be right, but it's reality.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4346 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2167 times:
Quoting cpd (Reply 4): That's plenty of time for the convicted criminal to think about their actions, and all the things in life they will no longer be able to do.
And, that's probably what this judge has in mind, with a little Old Testament or Koranic justice thrown in.
Quoting cpd (Reply 4): There can be no justification for it, of any kind. I don't care what anyone says - because I simply will not accept any justification for it.
With fingers in ears: "Nay, nay, nay...I can't hear you, I can't hear you"
But seriously, this is barbaric and cruel. It would certainly not stand Constitutional muster, nor should it really be considered in any civilized nation (did I just call Saudia Arabia uncivilized?).
Just a quick thought, though: how do we feel about chemical or physical castration for convicted sexual (child or adult) predators? Not quite the same, but close, I think.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2147 times:
Quoting cpd (Reply 10): I've said what I had to say and have nothing more to add to it. My thoughts on the original topic are absolutely unequivocal
You have the luxury of feeling that way. The people who make decisions, however, do not, or at least cannot take action accordingly.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
cpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 44 Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2103 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12): You have the luxury of feeling that way. The people who make decisions, however, do not,
That statement isn't totally correct. Especially not the first part of it, nor the second part.
Although a policy or law might be worded in a particular manner, it's up to those tasked with administering the laws to apply them in the most ethical and sensible way.
Sometimes you need to make a decision that will not be the most popular one, but, weighed against ethical responsibility, it will be the right one. It's not an easy thing to do - and sometimes - more than you'd expect, the laws will conflict with each other and you are faced with a dilemma, do you act according to suggestion of one law, or the other one?
It's sometimes easy to say, eye for an eye, but in the long run it doesn't achieve a whole lot of benefit. Look at the underworld wars in one state of my country - they exercised that kind of justice and now, just about all of them are dead.
Bringing in bizarre torture and other such penalties because the original judgement wasn't adequate - that doesn't address or fix the problem. I'm thinking of the punishments in some country where it is supposedly acceptable to rape a relative of the accused as punishment for a crime. That's clearly unethical and unacceptable.
Exactly what is justice is an incredibly difficult thing to define - but you must weigh your decisions against the standards of ethical behaviour and responsibility.
ALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1150 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1963 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5): It won't be the international community because, to put it bluntly, it isn't our problem.
How come mass-genocide is "not our problem", yet people are in arms over a nation punishing its criminals? Don't get me wrong - that is one hell of a nasty way to do it - but come on guys, the double standards around here are unbelievable.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5708 posts, RR: 29 Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1897 times:
I could care less, I don't like it when any country gets all worked up over the laws in another. Saudi Arabia is a soveriegn nation and can do what ever the hell they want.
I would rather see the guy put to death. One bullet, back of the head, is far easier and cheaper.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5376 posts, RR: 47 Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1840 times:
Guess the guy shouldn't have fought. It's one of those things I don't agree with but he can't really get mad at the outcome
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19813 posts, RR: 56 Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1767 times:
Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 21): So the methods of punishing a criminal are more important than mass-genocide?
So until there is no more mass-genocide, countries should be able to do whatever the hell they want with their prisoners? Because while it may be inhumane, disgusting, and barbaric, but hey, at least it's not mass genocide, right?
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1747 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 25): So until there is no more mass-genocide, countries should be able to do whatever the hell they want with their prisoners?
No, but it isn't worth the potential risks to take any serious diplomatic stand against this.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12365 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1744 times:
This proposed punnishment, like stoning in Saudi Arabia, is a form of torture that is unacceptable in any humane society. Yes, we have no way to really protest this because of their oil and their money to by stuff the USA and Europe needs to sell, but in some way we need to make it clear that such cruel and unusual punishments are not a part of modern sociey. Maybe if some Saud family member had to suffer from such punnishment - and they never will - then such ideas will continue to considered.
babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3537 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1690 times:
They have another form of punishment in Saudi which is called cross-disememberement. Basically they cut off the left arm and the right leg so the guy can't balance properly fior the rest of his days.
They believe in these punishments while relations are good with the West but when things go pear shaped, like after 9/11, they seem to brush their strong beliefs under the carpet.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59 Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1676 times:
Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 21): important than mass-genocide?
I am curious, which partilcular bit of mass genocide are we ignoring.
Presumably I can take some sort of comfort in that by difference we must be paying attention to that other type of genocide, selective genocide. Remind me, how does that work again?
Of course crippling someone as a punishment is barbaric, what is to argue about?
In other news, one Islamic country is starting to debate as to whether it should leave the USA more like a shag on the rock it shares with the Chinese and abolish the death penalty. Amrosi and co in 2008 were the last to be shot in that country.
speedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 679 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1640 times:
Thankfully most democratic countries have abandoned medieval punishments, USA and Japan being two notable exceptions.
Las Malvinas son Argentinas
25 rolfen: And what about the Hippocrates Oath? Do they take it in KSA too?
26 comorin: It may be barbaric but isn't it just? A crime victim forgoes his rights for retribution in favor of the State. The State is left with the task of admi
27 DocLightning: So, as many know I'm a physician in the U.S. The answer to your question is: I don't know. Not all medical students in the U.S. take the Oath, I lear
28 kaitak: As is, I'm sure, public beheading ... so the normal standards of a civilised society don't really work in Saudi Arabia's case. At the end of the day,
29 SOBHI51: Let me clear some points The brother of the victim requested the above punishment The court asked the hospitals to confirm that such procedure is impo
30 Baroque: Sounds more reasonable but what would have happened if the hospital had said it was possible???
31 SOBHI51: The judge in that case and a matter of fact in that area judges are known for there moderation.
32 oly720man: Sad that a set of "rules" that are getting on for 4000 years old still carry so much weight when they were, it seems, originally intended to bring som
33 AirPacific747: Wouldn't this be against the doctors' vows of doing everything they can to help people in whatever way they can? Which doctor would actually carry out
34 redflyer: Interesting words in the oath, Doc. Just curious, and perhaps this is better left for another thread, but aren't these words highly subjective? Would
35 SOBHI51: [quote=AirPacific747,reply=33]Wouldn't this be against the doctors' vows of doing everything they can to help people in whatever way they can? Which d
36 AirPacific747: Yes.. wouldn't that be against their vow as well?
37 OA412: I wonder the same thing. Perhaps the doctors on this board can help us out. But, do keep in mind that it is doctors that administer the lethal inject
38 TheCommodore: Read this, it may shed some light. http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._by_lethal_injection_does_the.html
39 NorthstarBoy: Wow, how barbaric. Thank god western civilizations have pretty much taken the victim out of the sentencing process other than some states allowing vic
40 slider: That’s Sharia, baby. And lookout, it’s coming to the West, whether you like it or not. http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=32467 It’s alr
42 Mudboy: Seriously, I see this not much off, from the public beheadings. I cannot image any Physician doing this to a human. All I keep hearing while thinking
Sponsor Message: 
From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, 
From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22251 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined exactly 8 years ago today! 
, 2977 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3537 posts, 
From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 679 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
