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Oz Election: Embarrassed To Be Australian   
User currently offlineozglobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2723 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

Australia has been blessed to have avoided the crisis pretty much, the only OECD nation to do so, and not to have had a recession for 20 years. However, this latest distinction, far from being based on the economic genius of leaders of government and business, is rather just the good timing of China deciding it was time to buy much of the minerals and gas Australia happens to sit on. "Dig it up and ship it out." the customer is ready. No genius. The country's second industry, "Education", depends almost entirely on China and India. Of course, once made into a business, education long ago became "Training". Finally, there is tourism. Clearly, it is better to make money than lose it on such sectors, but it begs the question, blessed with youth, rich mineral and energy resouces ( 2nd in uranium, 1st in gas, certain amount of hydro and open ended solar possibilities), education and and endless line of people wanting to immigrate, why we can't create more value through other secondary and tertiary industries, why we fear running out of resources and being over populated when we have a country the size of the continental United States with a population only 8% the size. Admittedly, ours is largely arid, but a huge amount is also fertile.

So in this current election campaign, we should be hearing about, free from the shackles of crisis facing most of the developed world, how parties would stimulate local development of new value creating sectors, how we adapt education accordingly, how we reform health care to meet the burden of the baby boomers and the stresses it is under and how we leverage immigration and improved local birth rate economically and socially.

Instead, the campaign has become an unsightly, dumbed down squabble about Fox News like sound bites on immigration, the 'boat people', keeping them out, when they represent only one percent of the 400 000 plus immigrants last year. Days of debate are devoted to the various flavors of off shore camp solutions and this is meant to be the differentiator for the electorate!

Americans deserve all they get for their uncanny ability to be convinced of anything by a bit of fear, ignorance and popularism, but my counrtymen deserve every bit as much scorn for being a so borishly redneck as to have allowed the national election to be conducted on this purile basis. I'm embarrassed.

Any thoughts?


When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
181 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetk747 From Australia, joined Sep 2009, 341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

Without China our economy would be down the crapper, it has absolutely nothing to do with the way the government in power manages it. I don't know who I will be voting for tomorrow, Liberal and Labor have pretty much turned into the same party with virtually the same policies, i'll have to vote for the one I dislike less, which is in a terrible position to be in. I find myself supporting Labor not because of any of their policies but because the thought of Tony Abbott in power scares me more than having Julia Gillard in power.

I don't like the way that both of the major parties have demonised refugees and "boat people", surely Australians can't be this racist. It seems that politics in this country is a mess, no wonder Australians are so apolitical.

[Edited 2010-08-20 03:00:07]

User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
but my counrtymen deserve every bit as much scorn for being a so borishly redneck as to have allowed the national election to be conducted on this purile basis. I'm embarrassed.

I have to agree with you there. I've been quite embarrassed by the dumbed-down political debate, absolutely disgusting scare-mongering on issues of all kinds, including the trumped up and blown out of proportion boat-people debate.

It's the scare campaign you have when you haven't got anything else to run on.

I'm also disgusted by these town-hall question and answer forums. These people are almost never undecided voters. One of them in the first session in Western Sydney was caught out as a declared "Young Liberal" member, and the son of a SA Liberal party member. That's not an undecided voter. And the questions were all suspiciously well informed - including trotting out the propaganda lines of each respective party, and also the numerous Dorothy Dixers.

I cannot say who I'll vote for, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do so - but I will say it has been the most disappointing negative election campaign I've ever seen. You couldn't propose big ideas anyway - because the other side would chop them down as vote buying, and would block them in the Senate (assuming they remained in opposition or vice-versa) just for the sake of it.

We are in an age where the politicians don't care about us - they care about doing the minimum to get elected into government, or at the very least, to stay in Parliament and live the good life.

About the best reporting we've had from the media has been on ABC News 24, the new 24 hour news channel. All the reports without the spin from the big media moguls. And, some refreshingly blunt assessments from of the guest commentators that were right on the mark.

If I see another opinion poll, I'm going to explode!   

[Edited 2010-08-20 03:13:12]

[Edited 2010-08-20 03:22:32]

User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2886 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
However, this latest distinction, far from being based on the economic genius of leaders of government and business,

Beg to differ ! Having been left with 58 billion in the bank after the Howard era left us in a VERY good position to deal with this crises

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
is rather just the good timing of China deciding it was time to buy much of the minerals and gas Australia happens to sit on. "Dig it up and ship it out." the customer is ready. No genius



Um, they were buying up big time well before the crisis even began ?

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
but a huge amount is also fertile.

Not nearly as much as you think.

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
but my counrtymen deserve every bit as much scorn for being a so borishly redneck as to have allowed the national election to be conducted on this purile basis. I'm embarrassed.

This is not the first time an election has been like this. Remember the last Keating election, full of lies and deception.

Quoting tk747 (Reply 1):
Julia Gillard in power.

Oh yes, the women who wasted millions and millions on school tuck shops and Library's.... Made many a builder a multi millionaire   

Quoting tk747 (Reply 1):
Australians can't be this racist.

Not sure if it racists, or this overwhelming feeling of being scared, because we don't know who is entering the country through "back door measures"
A feeling made all the more understandable by the world we live in !

Quoting cpd (Reply 2):
I'm forced to choose the lesser of two evils,

Your not forced to do anything !

Walk into the polling station, register, and walk out again. No one is forcing you to do anything. That way, you can say you had nothing to do with any of it .
  

[Edited 2010-08-20 03:40:45]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineozglobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2723 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
Um, they were buying up big time well before the crisis even began ?

Uhm, all economic commentators agree this factor is what insulated Oz from this crisis due to ongoing and increasing deals.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4915 times:

It appears that Australia is facing the same disease that the USA has as to politics. Only 2 real parties, little difference between them, more about bashing each other than debating real issues facing our countries. This has been further compounded by 24/7 news media, the internet and growing enviromental, economic, immigration, taxation and other issues. Third parties seem to be no real factor but to maybe shift some parties views on some minor subjects. I hope we all figure out how to get reasoned, centeist governments with true leadership to deal with the critical issues of our day.

User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
Your not forced to do anything !

Of course I am. I have to choose the lesser of two evils, to ensure the worst one doesn't get into power.

And no, I'm not going to do the Mark Latham style donkey vote. And what exactly did he bring to this election campaign masquerading as a journalist? Anyone with two-cents for a brain could see what his motives were, and it wasn't journalism.

I found Laurie Oakes' comments when asked how much damage Latham would do to the Labor party quite refreshing, when he pondered how much damage it would do to the reputation of the Nine Network. And from there it went, seemingly days of childish tit for tat insults between Latham, Oakes, and anyone who dared enter the fray. Even "The Chaser" kiddies tried their luck against Latham but quickly departed, licking their wounds after his vicious retort "why don't you go tease some dieing children" or something to that effect.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
, or this overwhelming feeling of being scared

Scared of what? There is nothing to be scared about - the scare is the spin that is being manufactured by the political parties and their friends within the mainstream commercial media. It's basically a non-issue. The boat-people are not the problem - it's the people arriving by jets (aka "jet-people") who overstay their visas, or falsify their documents. But you won't see them - because they don't arrive on dangerous looking boats, they can't easily be photographed - they look like you or me, and they just don't resonate as campaign tactic.

As I said before, the boat-people scare is the campaign you have, when you've got nothing else to say for yourself. Oh, and the new Federal Liberal party members of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Kevin - never minding the hatchet jobs they did on Brogden, Debnam, Chikarovski, Downer, Nelson, Turnbull, etc. The hypocrisy of it all. Ridiculous and shallow spin, all of it. And if Abbott doesn't win, his head will be the next one on the Liberal party chopping block - and then they'll try and get someone else warm the seat for a few years. And the problem is, there aren't too many people left in that party who have much experience about anything.

I live and breath politics all day, every day (have done for a long time now) - so I'm pretty cynical of it all - and I question everything written in the media. I only wish everyone else would too. I see some people saying, "oh I don't know much about politics, but I'll read the newspapers and listen to the TV and make up my mind who to vote for" - that's the kind of comment that scares me.

Unfortunately - you don't get to read much about the few good politicians that are about. There are some around that do still genuinely care about what they are doing, but they are far and few between, and clouded by the usual loud-mouthed political suspects on the news.

And don't get me started on that über-young Liberal Party candidate in Queensland... He is what, 19 or 20 years old? How can he have any knowledge on Public Administration, or anything of use that a Politician needs to know at such a young age? You simply don't learn those things in 1 year out of school, it is years of knowledge that you accumulate through practical experience. You can't learn it in schools or universities.

You start off as a low-grade, and work your way up, gaining knowledge as you go. You don't just go in at the top. It doesn't work that way, and most of all, it'll end in tears for the young kid. And he is still just a kid almost. He'll be eaten up and torn to pieces in the Piranha pit of politics.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 5):
It appears that Australia is facing the same disease that the USA has as to politics. Only 2 real parties, little difference between them, more about bashing each other than debating real issues facing our countries. This has been further compounded by 24/7 news media, the internet and growing enviromental, economic, immigration, taxation and other issues. Third parties seem to be no real factor but to maybe shift some parties views on some minor subjects. I hope we all figure out how to get reasoned, centeist governments with true leadership to deal with the critical issues of our day.

You are absolutely right. I blame the media and opinion polling companies for some of it, because we are seeing irrational attachment to opinion polls (which are never that reliable in the first place) and focus groups, rather than visionary policies and real nation building initiatives. If the current lot were around in the old days, we wouldn't have roads or railways, let alone airports. Crossing the Sydney Harbour would be done in boats, because the bridge and tunnels we have now would never have been built.

The current lot on both sides of politics would prefer to fiddle while Rome burns.

The chiefs of staff and press-secretaries need to have some backbone and not run to the whims of the media and pollsters so often. Yes, there are some brilliant people there with lots of knowledge among the staffers - but what are they doing?

I also think the Abbott factor has come into play too. He's running a campaign of NO NO NO on everything, and he's single-handedly blocking every policy he can block just to be destructive. That sort of spins things around a bit, and forces everyone to act in a different way. If you don't sling mud yourself, you'll get buried in it.

They should have asked the Governor-General to invoke Section 57 of the Constitution and dissolve the Lower House and Senate and issue writs for an election in which every seat in the Parliament is contested, or what is also more commonly known as a double-dissolution election. That's what I'd have done. Ran that election on climate-change policy. It was a winner in general public opinion.

And if the bill got rejected again, the GG can convene a joint sitting of both the upper and lower houses and have it passed (or rejected) that way.

[Edited 2010-08-20 04:42:47]

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Australia has been blessed to have avoided the crisis pretty much, the only OECD nation to do so

Poland is OECD member too  


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2886 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 4):
Uhm, all economic commentators agree this factor is what insulated Oz from this crisis due to ongoing and increasing deals.

Yes, but they were still buying well before the crisis hit us, sure it helped us through it faster than say most other nations. but as I said we had, and i say HAD in big letters (Not any more, thanks to labors wastefulness) plenty of cash in the back to help out too !!

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
Scared of what?

The fear that the world lives under from day to day

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
it's the people arriving by jets (aka "jet-people")

They have already be identified by the authorities in order to have been granted a visa to enter the country in the first place.

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
because they don't arrive on dangerous looking boats,

I don't think its the boat that are the problem, its the unidentified people on board that maybe a worry. Tell me, if they have nothing to hide, why then do they throw all there documentation away ? Ive never been able to work the one out !

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
You start off as a low-grade, and work your way up, gaining knowledge as you go. You don't just go in at the top. It doesn't work that way, and most of all, it'll end in tears for the young kid. And he is still just a kid almost. He'll be eaten up and torn to pieces in the Piranha pit of politics.

Agree with you there, that's for sure.

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
never minding the hatchet jobs they did on Brogden, Debnam, Chikarovski, Downer, Nelson, Turnbull, etc.

Don't forget the otherside were at it to....Crean Hawke Keating Hayden.... and Latham, God I hate saying that name !!
 

Anyway, good luck tomorrow voting, remember no one is forcing you to do anything



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
He is what, 19 or 20 years old?



So if I'm reading things correctly, you are legally required to vote, but you only have to go to the polling station and register, but not actually cast a balot ? Surely if you are actually there it is worth voting. I would hate to think "none of the above" is really the best answer.

[Edited 2010-08-20 05:06:00]


To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlinemelpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1632 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4861 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 9):
So if I'm reading things correctly, you are legally required to vote, but you only have to go to the polling station and register, but not actually cast a balot ? Surely if you are actually there it is worth voting.

That's right. All you're legally required to do is to attend a polling place & have your name ticked off the electoral roll as having attended to vote & been given ballot papers. There's nothing to stop you from putting those papers straight into the ballot box without marking your vote, if that's what you want to do. A mate of mine will mark his ballot paper for the House of Representatives (Congress for you Americans...) as normal, but will write 'You're all a bunch of crooks' over the Senate ballot paper...... Silly if you ask me, but that's what happens when people are compelled by law to vote.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austral...n_electoral_system#Informal_voting

[Edited 2010-08-20 04:58:04]


Essendon - Whatever it takes......
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2886 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4854 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 9):
So if I'm reading things correctly, you are legally required to vote, but you only have to go to the polling station and register, but not actually cast a balot ? Surely if you are actually there it is worth voting.

Your right.
It is compulsory to vote in Australia, if you don't you receive a $50.00 fine

When voting day comes around, we are required have our names ticked off the register, collect our voting papers and (if you want, vote) you can then go about your other days business.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4844 times:

Very interesting. Thanks for the answers guys.

I have often wondered if democracy would be better served if people were required to vote.

It had not really occured to me though in Oz that it was permissable to spoil your balet paper, or in effect, not actually vote by doing so.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2137 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days ago) and read 4799 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
... my counrtymen deserve every bit as much scorn for being a so borishly redneck as to have allowed the national election to be conducted on this purile basis. I'm embarrassed.

Should our countrymen elect a prime minister who is so stupid as to encourage skepticism in young children by telling them that climate change is a myth because "it was hotter in Jesus' day" and is proud to publicly display his ignorance of technology (amongst his numerous other foolish actions) then perhaps the boat people problem will be one of more intelligent Australians departing these shores for places where their minds will be better appreciated, rather than the public celebration of ignorance we have now.

And behind Abbott are nasty religious nutcases. Don't forget that they selected David Barker in the first place, before disendorsing him.

Not that the Labor party has done much better. The number crunching idiots haven't even learned from the great disaster that is NSW, treating government as their personal power game where policy is simply spin rather than making decisions to benefit the people of Australia.

In my electorate we have a choice between Labor, Liberal, Greens, two wacko Christian moral parties, racist One Nation, or the selfishly libertarian Liberal Democrats. All I will say is that I hope preferences don't come into it.

I remember early in the campaign the SMH had a "self funded retiree" on their elector panel. He said something along the lines of "I'll only be looking at what the parties are doing for people like myself. I don't care about climate change." No, of course you don't, because you'll probably be dead when the worst comes. But you vote. My toddler son will have to deal with the consequences, but he can't vote.

I've lost confidence in our political, public service and business "leaders" (if opinion poll/investor whim following can be called leadership). It's all about the short term and ego.

But before we hope on a boat and seek asylum elsewhere, is it any better anywhere else? Why should the citizens of any other country be any smarter? Maybe Singapore, where the press rarely has cause to criticise the government (if they want to avoid defamation payouts) or China where the local citizenry are always applauding the actions of their government when I see CCTV on SBS (not being a Mandarin speaker I can't confirm what they are saying). Or how about North Korea, which is ruled by a living* god?

I recommend taking a look at https://www.belowtheline.org.au/ if you are wondering where your senate preferences are going. I hope that there will be no repeats of Family First this time.

* Or probably still living



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinepilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days ago) and read 4777 times:

Go Julia is all I can say. Tax the miners and give us the NBN those 2 things are the draw card for Labor.

Living in a mining town where nothing is put back into the community I think it's great, they only pay royalties and stuff all tax. Sick and tired of all the money we produce and also get taxed and get nothing for it.

Tony Abbot is an absolute tool and his broadband plan is just a joke and work choices is a scary thought it will be back.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days ago) and read 4776 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
the only OECD nation to do so

You think, it didn't really hit NZ any worse than Aussie, here in Norway people don't even know what it was because it didn't make any impact at all.

Since you are an Aussie you should be pretty used to being embarrassed, it happens nearly every time you play the All Blacks 


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
why we fear running out of resources and being over populated when we have a country the size of the continental United States with a population only 8% the size. Admittedly, ours is largely arid, but a huge amount is also fertile.

A thing called water....
quite simply Australia does not have enough of it.
Desalination is expensive and has other issues associated with it... burning fossil fuels to make water is not a good thing for the environment... the so called "Big Australia" is not necessary. You seem to be of the view to allow in millions of immigrants one way or the other... where will they all live? 99% of them will want to live in the cities as they currently do... Sydney and Melbourne are already large cities and have massive problems with congestion etc... Urban sprawl is NOT the answer. Sure they can build upwards but that is expensive when done rapidly rather than gradually.
Long term IF... nuclear fusion becomes available cheaply then it may be possible via desalination to irrigate much of Australia allowing it to become utilized for food production and/or bigger population etc. Quite frankly the world is overpopulated already so you should be feeling lucky to be living in an uncrowded place and be trying to protect that. Almost all experts agree that there will be major wars in the future (next 50 years) over resources/land/food etc



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently onlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3555 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4734 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
it's the people arriving by jets (aka "jet-people") who overstay their visas, or falsify their documents

Yep, I see it every week on *Aiport Security* or whatever that show is called.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Any thoughts?

Yes, mostly THIS

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
I'm embarrassed.

      but not half as furious as I will be at Labor if I wake up Sunday to a Mad Monk PM!!!

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
Quoting tk747 (Reply 1):
Julia Gillard in power.

Oh yes, the women who wasted millions and millions on school tuck shops and Library's.... Made many a builder a multi millionaire

I will see your wasted libraries (I understand at least two schools actually like them) and raise you extraordinary shuffling of taxes back into middle class welfare from subsidizing the creeps who run health insurance, to the spivs running superannuation schemes and a Dept of Immigration that specialized in exporting citizens like Ms Solon, the AWB and all the memory zero ministers right up to Howard and the baby bonus used as a source of income for young unmarried mothers and numerous other transfers of taxes to various targets Howard and Costalot identified. ........... But allrite was watching too.

Quoting allrite (Reply 13):
Should our countrymen elect a prime minister who is so stupid as to encourage skepticism in young children by telling them that climate change is a myth because "it was hotter in Jesus' day" and is proud to publicly display his ignorance of technology (amongst his numerous other foolish actions) then perhaps the boat people problem will be one of more intelligent Australians departing these shores for places where their minds will be better appreciated, rather than the public celebration of ignorance we have now.

   and many other    s

Quoting allrite (Reply 13):
I recommend taking a look at https://www.belowtheline.org.au/ if you are wondering where your senate preferences are going. I hope that there will be no repeats of Family First this time.

Ah well now, that is if you follow a party recommendation but if, like me you vote for the two or three you actually like, and then it is the real race to the bottom, I believe that what happens to your vote is partly a matter of chance. I once asked an ALP numbers man about my vote and he came back after a couple of weeks and said it would all depend on whether my vote went into a successful quota or not. If that happens, the preferences are exhausted and the prefs never happen.

Going back to Ozg's original plea, yes the move to turn education into an export industry was doomed to cause more trouble than it helps. Linked with the Howard governments decision to award resident status for those taking "approved" courses was a total joke and it more than anything has given the boat people nonsense oxygen. By the way, do take note that Rudd's great hero Bonhoeffer was actually a people smuggler and could be jailed for up to 20 years now.

But I digress, one of the reasons changing the Res rent taxes was bad is that the original iron ore and coal leases had additional conditions for processing in Australia. In the case of the iron ore mines there were attempts with Hismelt and the HBI plants but both Rio and BHP found it was more profitable just to ship out untreated ore. The coal lease conditions were a bit more complex but they too have been breached, the Utah leases (now BHP) all had sinking fund conditions. Nobody knows where the money went, like as not it went to develop the GE90-115!!!!!!!!!!

Gillard might not have the best plans for developing a funds similar to Norway's fund but at least it is better than frittering the mining income away as Howard and Costalot did.

An Abbott government would have that creep Andrews as something or other so he could lock up more Haneef's, a Julie Bishop to become a new Lord Downer and Moir in the SMH gets Hockey to a T in
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/cartoons
and would there ever have been a more shifty Finance minister than Robb(er).

If only a Mista Rabbit proof fence can be built overnight.

Is there no memory about how bad Howards lot were, Rabbits new hordes are the ones who could not get other jobs.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Baroque,

Rest easy. Dirty Harry the Croc predicts victory for Julia.



Source: ABC News.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4695 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 19):
Baroque,

Rest easy. Dirty Harry the Croc predicts victory for Julia.

The clip I saw was a bit short, but it appeared that DH was positioned a bit closer to Jules. Being a lazy bugger he just collected the nearest one. What they should have hung up was a rabbit and a guillemot.

Thanks for the thought, but hard to rest easy with the thought of a Mad Monk.

One reflecting is that Rudds problems started not so much with he squibbing climate change - which he did - but the sudden desire to confess to a bunch of sins that were in part mainly in his own mind. Once he went forth and said his government was bad bad bad and needed to get better better better he was done.

This might be standard fare for the confessional and honesty is OK in its place but you cannot confess to sins and not expect to suffer.

Only positive is that the Mad Monk could easily do the same. And then the Atheist WOULD pounce!


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4657 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Of course, once made into a business, education long ago became "Training".

The lousy deal given many overseas students is illustrated in a cost breakdown I was able to make a number of years ago. A course in Accountancy, run in vacation attracted fees of just over $110,000. Instruction was by part-timers and the costs could be calculated at between $5000 and $9000. Add say $5000 for exams, that leaves around 85% for overheads. No doubt costs were higher for many other courses, but that breakdown was probably all too common. Not great value for the students?

And Universities wonder why they got into trouble.

It is interesting that this sort of issue was never discussed, nor that the Rudd government - Jules in particular - was most of the way to solving at least parts of the dreadful legacy from the Howard ministers of Ed.

The use of stats by the parties did not attract the criticism it should have done. The Libs wandered all over the place with their numbers for deficits getting up to 200 billion at times for the debt - the most likely number appears to be about 70 billion. The number of migrants was similarly a fact free zone. Let alone the number of boat people and of course never ever a mention of how many of the boat people were displaced associated with wars that Australia chose to fight in. Grrrrrr! China house rules folks.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Are any of the contenders opposed to selling Uranium (Yellowcake?) to India? Would be a nice step for Oz-India relations.

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 16):
A thing called water....
quite simply Australia does not have enough of it.
Desalination is expensive and has other issues associated with it... burning fossil fuels to make water is not a good thing for the environment.

Use nuclear to desalinate. Saudi Arabia has a project on the boards to do just that. Yes, it's expensive, but the notion that access to water is merely desirable if cost effective is like saying access to air is pleasant but not mandatory.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 23):

What would you do with all the leftover salt?   


25 Post contains images TheCommodore : Go Liberals. I'm off to cast my vote down at the local public school, maybe even get to see a new tuck shop, library or toilet block or Julia Gillard
26 qantas077 : Lol, so you are happy that we have been taxed to high heaven? Surplus usually means we have paid thru the nose with our tax. If you dislike debt, I s
27 Post contains images TheCommodore : No, I dislike tax like anyone .Where did I say I like tax ? not sure what you mean ? Um, now you really got me confused, who said I dislike debt. I d
28 qantas077 : you obviously don't understand the point I am making, you talk about the $57 billion of surplus left by Howard, that is YOUR tax, you say it was very
29 TheCommodore : So what do you want then. To be paying million and perhaps billions of $$$$$ to some other country in interest payments, No thanks. What I was saying
30 stealthz : Whilst not a huge fan of either I am not sure one can single those out. The campaign has been quite "Presidential" i.e. Gillard v Abbott and either t
31 Post contains links Baroque : Adding to this sage comment: they were put in a most uncomfortable box, uncomfortable because it turned out to be the very same box that was occupied
32 TheCommodore : Now come on Baroque, Bishop, Hockey and Andrews have been visible in this campaign,which I cant say for Wong and Garrett despite having a foot in mout
33 Post contains images Baroque : Not that keen on Gillard but infinitely prefereable to Abbott. I have like some relapsed Jesuits, but not that many. The smoke from Gillards gun was
34 ozglobal : On what basis do you assert that I am "of the view to allow in millions of immigrants one way or the other" ... and "rapidly"? What I object to is th
35 Baroque : I will metaphorically drink to that. NBN is something, but we do need so much more. The rot set in with Malcolm Fraser cutting back on capital works
36 Post contains links and images Baroque : If I had not been hunting around for a coal sample that had dematerialised I would have drawn yr attention to this: http://www.smh.com.au/business/th
37 Springbok747 : Think its $110 now... Was gonna vote for the sex party as the line was shorter..but decided to go Greens.
38 bookishaviator : It's a $20 fine initially. They can take you to Court if you don't pay or don't provide a valid reason for not voting - if you lose, the fine goes up
39 Post contains images Zkpilot : well said, good call. Based on this: 8%? So in other words you'd like to see it higher... possibly much higher... well 10% would mean another 2 milli
40 Kent350787 : Possible hung parliament is the likely outcome at this stage, although 20% of the votes were pre-poll and will take some time to be counted. This has
41 TheCommodore : Thanks guys, I stand corrected. Hello,Your kidding right ?Remember, they assassinated there own leader, and people don't like that sort of behavior b
42 cpd : It looks like libs might manage to do a minority government. But it's so close, that nobody could really give it any credibility. But labor could do s
43 Baroque : You would think that the ALP should be crying in its spilt milk but there is still enough support for the real result to be a plague on both your hou
44 tk747 : How the hell could Australians have turned so right wing??? What is going on with this country? I'm definitely now feeling embarrassed at being an Aus
45 Baroque : Even more of a worry is why so many effectively voted for a guy who said in the famous interview with Kezza that he did not tell the truth. So they v
46 ozglobal : Sorry, but it doesn't follow. I simply stated the facts of our population to give some perspective. I don't have good enough data to propose a target
47 Kent350787 : A lot of rusted on Labor supporters were disgusted by its immigration policy, and only able to support the Government half-heartedly - the policy of b
48 TheCommodore : What would suggest for a policy then, because as far as I can see no one, is offering any real alternative. Very hard to put a positive spin on death
49 Post contains images Kent350787 : Explaining to the people the minimal impact of the whole issue, rather than both parties racing to the bottom. The fact that Labor didn't offer an al
50 cpd : But the helicopters are (at my last knowledge) gathering dust inside a hanger, mothballed. It was a ridiculously expensive program that didn't work.
51 bookishaviator : As much as the prospect of a minority Abbott government depresses me, I at least take heart from this.
52 Post contains images Baroque : Rudd deserved to go for the failure to explain, not for the failure of the insulation. The BER seems not to be a failure. The costs in NSW seem to be
53 Post contains links NAV20 : 'Worried' doesn't fit with my views, Baroque - my problem with them is that they are 'queue-jumpers.' Australia admits a fairly high annual total of
54 Post contains images TheCommodore : Helicopters sitting in a hanger somewhere doesn't hit at the heart strings like deaths do. That really hits a nerve with the general public, and so i
55 cpd : I get the impression that you don't know a lot about the BER program other than what you've heard in the general media and the usual lines from Tony A
56 Post contains images Baroque : Oh no, the dreaded queue argument. I am shot to pieces. Well I might be after you tell me where your average Tamil would be safe to join a queue in S
57 Post contains links allrite : Looks like the idiot evil Labor powerbrokers haven't learned a thing. They cling to the concept that politics is simply a game and that all the need t
58 Post contains images TheCommodore : If your replying to me cpd I'm stumped, all I'm doing is giving you the argument from another perspective. I'm no more learned than most other people
59 NAV20 : I've seen reports that said that some of the BER projects cost as much as $5,000 per sq. metre to construct, cpd. Oddly enough, until I retired I was
60 TheCommodore : Nav, I heard to, that some insulation companies based there quotes on measurements gained from looking at Google earth and then estimating approx cos
61 Baroque : Information stop press. We do have laws, and there is a treaty that states we are obliged to consider applicants for refugee status. All the rest is
62 Post contains images TheCommodore : That would be a very good idea. Especially if these, so called refugees/boat people by-passed other nations (eg Indonesia etc), in order to come to A
63 Post contains images Baroque : Position one is that not being a refugee (yet!!) I probably am in no position to comment. However, I believe that conditions in some of those "camps"
64 Post contains images NAV20 : Baroque, mate, no-one on here appears to be exhibiting 'prejudice,' as far as I can see. My own position, as I hope I've made clear, is that Australi
65 Baroque : IF and it is a big IF it is really important, then the place to do this is in Indonesia not on Nauru or even Timor Leste. One problem about discourag
66 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Sorry, Baroque mate, can't resist asking what we should do if that is the only available solution. Invade them? Not that I don't think we'd win - and
67 Baroque : Ever thought of talking to them? Most speak Bahasa Indonesia and quite a few speak English better than most of us speak Bahasa Indonesia, or Bahasa J
68 Post contains links TheCommodore : Very good points and taken on board ! More on the election drama. Have just heard that there may be a bit of an ethical delima for our Governor Gener
69 Kent350787 : Currently 73 seats Labor, 72 Coalition, 3 independent, 1 green and one in doubt, slightly coalition at this stage. No love lost between the independen
70 Baroque : The only reason I mention the boats is that it is such a trivial issue. Although I would suggest that about half a billion has been wasted on them ea
71 Post contains images NAV20 : Let's give it a try, anyway. First thing that weighs on me is the Electoral Commission saying that the counting process may take another ten days or
72 Baroque : Possibly in 1975 terms, but these days agrarian socialism - which is what they do believe in - has come back from the right to the left. It seems the
73 Post contains images NAV20 : Found out a bit more about that rule. I should have remembered that it's necessary to protect the interests of many Aussies who cast their votes over
74 Post contains images Baroque : You are going to have to explain that one to me. Please stress how different this would be from Fraser's use of a majority in the Senate in 1975!!! T
75 NAV20 : Misunderstanding, Baroque; I wasn't making a party-political point. I usually say that my political views are 'left of centre,' but in fact this elec
76 Post contains images Baroque : Oh dear, too much mirth for this time of day!!! The most flaky pollie ever to be near the PM office including Latham I regret to say. I do share your
77 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : . I think a bit might have to do with public perception too don't you Baroque, you know, where there's smoke there fire, isn't that what they say. No
78 TheCommodore : Stop press Stop press stop press Our beloved PM, Miss Gizzard, has banned Arbib from appearing on Q and A tonight. Guess this proves that he really is
79 Post contains images Baroque : Oh dear, we must cancel everything that happened under Hasluck and Bill Hayden. That is not a rat it is a rabbit.
80 Post contains links TheCommodore : That's hysterical LOL LOL Todays SMH article on the Arbib Q&A banning by Gizzard and her shady advisers. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-electi...q
81 Kent350787 : If the GG's daughter were still married to the son of a former Liberal MP, would there still be accusations of bias? The Coalition is arguing that it
82 Post contains links and images NAV20 : You do wonder, though, whether her family connection to Bill Shorten was actually the reason that she got nominated in the first place. I wonder if B
83 Baroque : On Q&A last night, one of the Twits(Twitters) suggesting the empty chair should be spinning. The positive side of the ban is that JG perhaps thin
84 Kent350787 : She had been GG for 10 months when Shorten and Ms Bryce-Parkin announced Ms B-P's pregancy. Each was married to their former partners at the time, al
85 TheCommodore : Absolutely ! Doesn't matter which side of the fence you sit. This is the problem that I have with these types of "connections". It creates suspicion,
86 Post contains images NAV20 : Agree that's the normal situation, Baroque - but it raises the question of whose advice? Her lawyers won't have a clue - the 'normal' rule is that th
87 Post contains links Baroque : No question of whose advice she takes in the first instance. It is from the PM. End of story. What do you think she will be deciding? She will not be
88 Post contains links TheCommodore : Your spot on, Allen, according to the Australian/, that is. http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com....omments/who_won_the_national_vote/
89 Baroque : Not a great surprise, but it looks odds on that nobody is going to get Katter onside. Mind you it might be a case of first prize being to have him off
90 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Sorry, Baroque, didn't realise that you were taking things so seriously. It's all a bit of a game to me - well, more like a comedy show, both sides a
91 Baroque : Probably right on the first count and wrong on the second one. The largest single party has not a great deal to do with it. It is who can command a m
92 Kent350787 : My recollection of Anne Twomey's comments a few weeks ago (she seems to be numero uno in Australia on this) was that the party with the greatest numb
93 Baroque : New territory and that might be true, but if the one with 72 is caretaker PM and wishes to test the majority on the floor of the house, I think that
94 Post contains images WarRI1 : Oh, the simplicty of politics. This all sounds vaguely familiar.
95 Kent350787 : I agree that there are two steps - firstly, convincing the GG to give them a go (most number of seats plus some agreement with others to make a majori
96 Post contains images Baroque : I could easily be wrong, but being the incumbent might mean that step one is automatic, you get a go. The interesting thing will be the nature of the
97 NAV20 : No, Baroque, as largest single party they would get the first opportunity. Plenty of governments elsewhere govern in a literal minority - meaning les
98 Baroque : I don't think so. Unless you have a full majority it would not trump being the incumbent. Also with 72, 73, 74 or 75 you are still going to need an a
99 Post contains links NAV20 : You're arguing with a quote from the Age, Baroque, not with me. But it turns out that you're also arguing with the likes of Malcolm Fraser. You may n
100 WarRI1 : It maybe a most ingenious way to get the peoples minds off things that matter, like the welfare of the country. Budgie Smugglers? Now tomatoe sauce o
101 Post contains links Baroque : Oh yes, I know that was the Aus. Just for equal opportunity, you can cite George Williams as me!!! http://www.smh.com.au/federal-electi...ment-is-for
102 Post contains images NAV20 : We'd better call it quits, Baroque - we're not really disagreeing, except possibly about the difference between one party having more seats than anyo
103 Post contains images Baroque : No I think we do differ. If a party is IN government and is in a minority BUT thinks they can command support, they continue - until it is demonstrat
104 Post contains links Baroque : Strange times over the Treasury and evaluation of programs. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-electi...gs-20100826-13sna.html?autostart=1 Independents att
105 WarRI1 : I see, I see said the blind man. A man wears a tight bathing suit with a bulge, that looks like he has a Budgerigar (Parakeet) stuffed in front. 1. A
106 Post contains images Baroque : You may say any of those statements, I could not possibly comment. Really if I was transported to Looking Glass land matters could not be more odd. I
107 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Well well - the Electoral Commission has reached the point where it is no longer showing any 'Close Seats'; instead they are showing all seats as prov
108 Baroque : ???? Which convention is that? Dare I suggest that IIRC Bracks formed a minority govt in Vic with fewer seats than his opposition. Robb continues wit
109 Post contains links NAV20 : Call me an old-fashioned 'small d' democrat, Baroque....... "Back Abbott, MPs' constituents say: pollAAP August 26, 2010, 12:33 am A majority of vote
110 Post contains links Baroque : Nice to see News being consistent. They ought to give their guy er Tony Something, not Windsor though, some lessons in being consistent. You heard wh
111 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Wilkie is more qualified than most of us to make such comments. Given that he was a senior Army Intelligence Officer at the time of Iraq, and resigne
112 Baroque : I do too. I just hope he contributes at the major concept level as well as worrying about the kerbs and guttering in Barrack St or wherever he lives!
113 Post contains images NAV20 : Cheers, Baroque, mate! I reckon that this is a pretty good comment at the 'major concept level.' Something just about all of us agree with - but none
114 Baroque : Now to join in the critique if only the member for Monaro can be let off the party leash too, that would be a sight to behold!!! Between them those t
115 Post contains images NAV20 : Steady, mate - I really don't have a big interest in politics. I was following the cricket until it got rained off. Who exactly IS the 'member for Mo
116 Baroque : Col Dr Mike Kelly is the member for Monaro. From his website. Mike joined the Army in 1987 and has extensive military experience including deployment
117 Post contains images NAV20 : Thanks, Baroque, interesting. Looking at the whole picture, we certainly seem to to be victims of the old Chinese curse - "May you live in interesting
118 Baroque : Hartcher in today's SMH has an interesting article on that esp re the Abbott refusal to hand over programs to Treasury. He thinks it was Abbott runni
119 Post contains links and images NAV20 : "I say, steady on, old man........." Looks as if the Coalition is pulling ahead. The Electoral Commission has Corangamite back on the 'Close Seat' li
120 Baroque : And so Mr Beasley will take up his long delayed position as Prime Minister?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? It is the number
121 connies4ever : Does the current situation make one pine for the 'first past the post' days ? We've had a minority arrangement in Canada for about 7 years now, first
122 Baroque : I think we will have to get back to you - twice. Once in a week or two for the immediate effects. Then in a year or so when we find how it works out
123 Post contains links Baroque : More interesting times: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/01/2999219.htm Greens, Labor seal deal By online political correspondent Emma Rodge
124 Post contains images NAV20 : Batwoman setting new standards in terms of election promises, with regard to the 'Citizen's Assembly.' I can't offhand recall any previous case of a p
125 Baroque : All true. But try running the reverse. Certainly not check mate, but definitely check. Not sure why breaking lunatic promises is still a sin. I would
126 Post contains links TheCommodore : Now that's no hell of a understatement !! LoL On a slightly off-topic subject, but still on OZ governments. I don't think things can get any worse in
127 Baroque : Do you think they will change the name of O'Connor to Tallarook then? Would be a good move???? After all it had Tuckey before Crook.
128 Post contains images TheCommodore : Stop it, my sides are hurting !!
129 Post contains links Baroque : Looks as if the dog ate the homework because it was used for wrapping up a nice piece of steak http://www.smh.com.au/federal-electi...f-lib-costings-2
130 Kent350787 : "Tony Abbott says the deal between Labor and the Greens means ''there will be a carbon tax, there will be a higher mining tax, there will be funding c
131 Post contains images TheCommodore : Lets just wait and see about "the Good" as you say, I think there could be a bit of "Bad" in there too somewhere. But what do they say... You have to
132 Kent350787 : No tears whatsoever if Nile is forced to go. The real, unreported, latest is that many were caught, from both sides of politics, although McLeay was
133 Baroque : Yes I read that and was similarly tempted. Had me rolling in the aisles. I begin to wonder if by the time the Greens, Wilkie and who knows how many N
134 Post contains images NAV20 : Just put 'open square bracket - i - close square bracket' at the beginning and 'open square bracket - forward slash - i - close square bracket' at th
135 Baroque : Worse things happen at sea, to coin a phrase!
136 Post contains images NAV20 : See you on the poop-deck of the 'Titanic,' Baroque......
137 Post contains links cpd : More scandal: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-electi...-sink-labor-mp-20100903-14sic.html The widely reported incident that helped to sink a QLD Labor M
138 Baroque : I share your wish and not doubt it has not been weakened by the link about the Qld seat. After Wilkie, they might include a section on the max diamet
139 Post contains links cpd : More scandal: http://www.news.com.au/features/fede...ricks/story-e6frfllr-1225914066222 And it seems the usual culprits are behind it again. This poli
140 Baroque : Desperation??? One has to wonder. Are both parties engaged in these unseemly games? On the other side I have to have a grim smile at this Headline fr
141 Post contains links and images NAV20 : It's pretty clear from today's news that two of the 'indians' plan to support Labor - but, as I speculated earlier, Katter may be the odd man out. Co
142 Baroque : I really have no idea. Best guess is to throw the possibilities up in the air and see what falls face up - or something like that. Could be. If it is
143 Post contains images Kent350787 : I can see the logic in Ted Mack's recent statements (he's a former independent state and federal politician) that the remaining 3 independents will do
144 Baroque : Pretty fair logic. And that particular piece might be critical but hard to read those guys. Windsor was very funny with his words from his mother "Mu
145 Post contains links Baroque : IMHO the Mad Katter did pretty well in Q&A. I thought I would take him for 10 Minchins. A better solution might be Beattie as long as he had to ke
146 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Don't forget that it was Gillard that knifed Rudd? Odd few paragraphs in this late story:- "But the zinger was at the end. "Oakeshott revealed that t
147 Baroque : True, but if Abbott gets 76 by 72 plus Crook from Tallarook plus 3 the 3 know that it took Crook from Tallarook a couple of weeks to make up his mind
148 Post contains links NAV20 : Katter live on ABC Newsradio announcing that he's backing the Coalition. Says that the other two 'amigos' are 'still in discussion.' http://www.abc.ne
149 cpd : Looks like we have PM Tony Abbott - unless the other two independents have split. Basically, looks like the coalition bent more to Katter's requiremen
150 Post contains images NAV20 : Katter made it clear that the treatment of fellow-Queenslander Kevin Rudd weighed heavily with him. Also said that the coalition is prepared to grant
151 cpd : Refer to update below.[Edited 2010-09-06 22:42:53]
152 Post contains images cpd : Katter: Libs Windsor: Labor Oakeshott: Labor Labor forms Goverment. You were saying?? Looks like Wilkie made the right decision! Looks like he'll get
153 Kent350787 : Now - Oakeshot. Has he been offered speaker or a ministry? And there was word that WIlkie was to make an announcement as well - perhaps Wilkie speaker
154 Post contains images Baroque : Or then again perhaps not. Wilkie possibly WAS a good intell officer!!!! As cpd writes Big wink indeed. Take your pick I think. Government this after
155 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Honestly wish that were so, CPD. But IMO he should have driven a much harder bargain. I have two bits of past experience to guide me. Firstly, I once
156 qantas077 : was great theatre today, good result i think, I am happy the NBN stays in place! Abbott was health minister well before he ever went for the job as P
157 Post contains links Baroque : And he also did his level best to ban RU 486. Not something likely to happen with an atheist - I hope!! It probably was but the stage setting on a ca
158 Post contains links cpd : If he went Liberal, he wouldn't have got it. It would have been a deadlocked parliament - another election, an enormous amount of money spent again g
159 NAV20 : Oddly negative viewpoints, seems to me, guys? You all seem only to be 'celebrating' who DIDN'T get in. What do you see on the more positive side? Wha
160 Baroque : From cpd's link When it delivers, "we will give credit where it's due''. "To the extent that it doesn't, we will hold them ferociously to account.''
161 NAV20 : Fair answer, Baroque, thanks. So you're basically just looking forward to higher taxes?
162 Post contains images Baroque : I have what I hope is a balance view of taxes, they have benefits as well as costs. For both these there are identifiable benefits that SHOULD (might
163 TheCommodore : Well, I suppose I had better pass on my congratulations to Jullia. You pulled it off baby, just. Not that I'm that happy about it, don't think you rea
164 cpd : I'm also happy to pay higher taxes, as long as they go to a worthwhile infrastructure project - such as improved rail (eg, HSR) or other things not a
165 Post contains images NAV20 : Beauty, Baroque I think those two comments illustrate the difference between us in terms of approach. As it happens, I don't currently have an opinio
166 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Looks like the first doublecross of the Spring, TheCommodore. Furthermore, there seems to be every possibility that any extra money will only become
167 cpd : For me, it can take 1.5 to 2 hours just to get to the airport fighting the traffic. Early flights for me mean leaving super early to avoid traffic ja
168 Post contains images NAV20 : Every sympathy, cpd - but the essential question is, are there enough people around you in a similar fix to fill a train both ways each day at an eco
169 cpd : There are probably a lot in Sydney who'd use a proper high speed train running at real high speeds if it means not needing to use Sydney Airport - an
170 qantas077 : makes 1998 seem like only yesterday... ;0
171 Baroque : Slight background to: Crazy Darcy Meanswell was one of Hardy's composity characters. Part based on Wentworth and part on a mad state MP for Many whose
172 Post contains links NAV20 : Hmmmm - Labour's 'indies deal' already begins to look like a 'marriage made in Hell":- "LABOR'S alliance with the two rural independents has hit its
173 Baroque : I really do not know why you keep on believing the Aus, they are publishing what their paymasters in the Liberal party suggest - or so it appears. The
174 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Quite simply, no, Baroque. There simply aren't enough people living in the country to achieve that; still less enough businesses. Besides which, the
175 Post contains images cpd : I thought he was too busy plotting for the deputy leader's job to be interested in economics. Certainly it didn't take long for the knives to come ou
176 Baroque : Well yes we could all order a lot of conch shells from PNG and a length of string. Someone has to bite a bullet somewhere sometime. A bit extreme? Bu
177 NAV20 : So Oakeshott chickened out of accepting a ministerial appointment in the Gillard government. Makes sense - it would have been political suicide as far
178 Post contains links Baroque : And then there is the dummy spit, except he has yet to spit it. Moir is a man of great insight! http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/o...toons/alan-moir
179 NAV20 : Well well - Oakeshott pitching to be the Speaker. I'm sure that, if appointed, he'd 'Speak' all right..... The only question is, would the garrulous b
180 Post contains images TheCommodore : I thought that he didn't want his position to be "compromised" by becoming a minister or speaker ? Perhaps a new tactic...... or Perhaps he'd rather
181 Baroque : No, give me an Abbott budgie smuggler or his pet lip any day.
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