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Gov Workers Owe Back Taxes. Aghhhh!  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2117 times:

An article this afternoon in the WaPo really has me pissed. It's about government employees owing over $9 Million in back taxes in the DC area alone.

The article is at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn.../AR2010090903376.html?hpid=topnews

and there is a chart to the side that lets you sort by area, number of employees behind, or amounts due.

The total debt is staggering. Military retirees owe over $1.525Billion and top the list. The House of Representatives owe $6.5 Million, the Senate is "better" at $3.3 million. But then the House has 4.35 times the politicians.

Even the Admin offices of the US Courts has 754 employees owing $11.8 million.

One I can understand is the Active Duty Military having almost 29 thousand behind - might be tough to worry about income taxes if you're in the combat zone or in rehab.

But, geez, even the GAO has 66 employees who are $704K behind.

The IRS is not listed so we can "assume" that they are all current.  

But then Treasure has 1,200 employees owing $7.6 Million.

Aghhhh!

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

And your point? Government employees are human too. There are good and bad government employees, just like there are good and bad private sector employees. And it is not as if government employees are a particularly well paid bunch.

As for the soldier-worship, not everyone in the military is in combat or in rehab, and the military provides more than enough resources to servicemembers for them to file their taxes.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

I don't care who you are or what you do. One of your responsibilities as an American is to pay your taxes. Agree with them or not. Well paid or not.

User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2059 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
I don't care who you are or what you do. One of your responsibilities as an American is to pay your taxes. Agree with them or not. Well paid or not.

I'm not defending it. I think these witch hunts against government employees are ridiculous.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6305 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 3):
I think these witch hunts against government employees are ridiculous.

  . It's the few bad government employees that make the news, and the many good government employees who get punished because of it. Just keep that in mind...most government employees are good, hard working people that often don't get paid as much as they should (though they do have many perks that private sector folks don't; a high paycheck just isn't often one of them). I know many, many US Federal and State employees, and all but a couple work ridiculously hard and are as honest as can be. My fiance is a US government employee (economist for the Federal Reserve Bank in Kansas City), so I see a lot of this first hand.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 4):
It's the few bad government employees that make the news, and the many good government employees who get punished because of it

Granted but those amounts are a little high don't you think?


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 1):
And it is not as if government employees are a particularly well paid bunch.

Ahem, excuse me? On average they get over $40K in fringe benefits alone, forget salaries (which are also higher than average, and have been growing far faster than private sector jobs over the past 2 decades).



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Ahem, excuse me? On average they get over $40K in fringe benefits alone, forget salaries (which are also higher than average, and have been growing far faster than private sector jobs over the past 2 decades).

Well, you could compare apples and oranges like you're doing, or you could compare government positions to their equivalent private sector position. Civilian Government positions are paid less than their counterparts at private corporations. So a paralegal with the government makes far less than a paralegal with a law firm. A lawyer in the government makes far less than a lawyer in private practice, this of course factoring in equal amounts of time and training. The same goes just about across the board - engineers, clerical workers, architects, etc.

Now if you're going to compare a paralegal in the government to privately employed plumber, well sure the government employee is doing better, and it sure helps your case out.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
Granted but those amounts are a little high don't you think?

Not as a portion of the workforce. It's not as if the private sector has a pretty track record. How is it that GE, which is an American corporation which turned a profit (though not on US operations) paid no taxes to the feds this year?


User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1630 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 3):
I'm not defending it. I think these witch hunts against government employees are ridiculous.

Oh really?! But hunts against private citizens are not?? Its funny how if i was to miss my taxes I would have the IRS up my ass in no time, but somehow government employees always get leniency and a pass.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 7):
Well, you could compare apples and oranges like you're doing, or you could compare government positions to their equivalent private sector position. Civilian Government positions are paid less than their counterparts at private corporations.

Bzzzzzt! Wrong.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm#chart

Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available.

And remember, the above are salaries only. They don't count benefits, which average over $40K per year for government workers, and around $10K for private sector workers.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 1):
And it is not as if government employees are a particularly well paid bunch.

  

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 3):
I think these witch hunts against government employees are ridiculous.

I don't....you know why? I pay for these bureaucrats salaries..so yeah it bothers me...



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 10):
I pay for these bureaucrats salaries..so yeah it bothers me...

Okay they owe taxes - but most likely not on their government salaries.

As noted in the article one of the problems for the employees of Congress is that many had very high paying positions in the civilian world before joining a congressional staff - and many of the tax bills were owed before they went to work for the government. Unfortunately when they take the much lower paying government positions - they cannot meet the previously agreed to payment schedules with the IRS.

This is probably an issue with employees of the Executive Office also.

Why are military retirees the largest group? Because they are the largest group if you do not break them down the way the other groups were broken down.

So retired sargent Smith made a mistake on his rental house income on his taxes - that makes it government fraud and waste?

I've got news for you guys. If you have any investments beyond a company 401K - you owe more taxes - unless you survived an audit this year.

The IRS can always find something you did wrong, some rule which has changed since your figured your taxes, something your accountant failed to apply correctly. And it is your fault no matter who made the mistake, or who failed to read seven gazillion pages of regulations - many of which directly contradict each other.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Or instead of the above average annual pay raises for active duty military... why not just stop charging income tax on servicemen and women?

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 3):
I think these witch hunts against government employees are ridiculous.

Since the total owed by all government employees is going to be a large number I believe that "which hunt" is not the right term.


User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 10):
I don't....you know why? I pay for these bureaucrats salaries..so yeah it bothers me...

Well I thank you for your hard work.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
Since the total owed by all government employees is going to be a large number I believe that "which hunt" is not the right term.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available.

And factoring locality pay? Considering that federal jobs are a fraction of total employment, and that federal positions are concentrated in major metropolitan areas, comparing federal vs civil per locality is far more accurate than blanket stating the whole country.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8792 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 14):

And factoring locality pay? Considering that federal jobs are a fraction of total employment, and that federal positions are concentrated in major metropolitan areas, comparing federal vs civil per locality is far more accurate than blanket stating the whole country.

LOL, you get creamed with your earlier claim so you try to shift it. You crack me up!

According to BLS, 85% are spread all over the country, outside of DC.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm

"Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted."

“When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000,” USA Today reported.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...9-12-10-federal-pay-salaries_N.htm

The hypocrisy of this Federal Government Salary Increase for 2010, comes after millions of people have lost their jobs! How about showing a little restraint? Doesn't this make anyone else frustrated?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1630 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 1):
And it is not as if government employees are a particularly well paid bunch.

What planet are you living on right now? Because here in the US, on Earth, its quite a different story.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 16):
What planet are you living on right now? Because here in the US, on Earth, its quite a different story.

Government workers enjoy a month of vacation every year while too many non-government employees start with a whole two weeks. Their benefits are almost European!  Wow!

And they get great health insurance. Every government worker, from the federal, state, county, school district, city, town, etc. They all get a lot of tax dollars going to their health care.

When you think about that simple fact you then start thinking about just how much money is spent on government workers?

Makes you also start thinking about using a tax based on income to pay for health care. Could reduce the deficit by the amount paid for the government employees.

But conservatives wouldn't find that savings acceptable.  


User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1630 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
The hypocrisy of this Federal Government Salary Increase for 2010, comes after millions of people have lost their jobs! How about showing a little restraint? Doesn't this make anyone else frustrated?

Of course it does.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 10):
I don't....you know why? I pay for these bureaucrats salaries..so yeah it bothers me...

  



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1793 times:

What am I missing? Aren't salaries taxed at source as in P.A.Y.E (pay as you earn)?


To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3948 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1781 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
And remember, the above are salaries only. They don't count benefits, which average over $40K per year for government workers, and around $10K for private sector workers.

Plus the fact that they get a guaranteed job for life now matter how much they mess up or how little they focus on their job, while screw-ups/lazy bums in the corporate world usually get weeded out pretty quickly. Oh, and let's not talk about working 35-40 hours a week versus basically working what is necessary if you are in a private white-collar job.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1775 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 3):
think these witch hunts against government employees are ridiculous



Oh poor government employees. ... witch hunts ? Sorry they should be audited at a even higher rate in my opinion.

How can this even happen ... god I know the time and money I spend every year dealing with taxes. I never have owed back taxes ... and frankly would never get away with it. The IRS does not let me get even 1 financial Qtr behind .... that is 3 months for those government employees wondering. Every 4th month I pay ... allot ... and if I don't they call in the next few weeks to ask why.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1770 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 19):
What am I missing? Aren't salaries taxed at source as in P.A.Y.E (pay as you earn)?

Most to near all the tax owed is on investments and other businesses - not the government salary.

Govt employees, and especially retirees, have investments for their future and retirement. The rules on taxes for investments change quite frequently and it is very easy to find you owe extra taxes.

Many high level government employees are not career employees. In most cases they were mid to high six figure income folks (or higher), and the taxes owed come from those days of employment - not from their government employment.

Pretty much every person in the United States with investments beyond a 401K or IRA could be found to owe extra taxes due to the complexity of our tax laws, and they way the laws change yearly - if audited by the IRS.


User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1720 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 16):
What planet are you living on right now? Because here in the US, on Earth, its quite a different story.

Um, planet earth, where I, a federal employee, make much less than my private sector counterparts.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Government workers enjoy a month of vacation every year while too many non-government employees start with a whole two weeks. Their benefits are almost European!

Sure, after a decade on the job. I have a measely 13 per year, and I probably will not be able to use some of that.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
Every 4th month I pay ... allot ... and if I don't they call in the next few weeks to ask why.

And somehow federal employees don't? Every Leave and Earning Statement I get shows quite a bit in taxes that I won't see again.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 20):
Plus the fact that they get a guaranteed job for life now matter how much they mess up or how little they focus on their job, while screw-ups/lazy bums in the corporate world usually get weeded out pretty quickly. Oh, and let's not talk about working 35-40 hours a week versus basically working what is necessary if you are in a private white-collar job.

Which is one of the problems with the civil service, but it is vastly overexagerated. And let us talk about working 35-40 hours per week, because I do not know any federal employees where I work who work less than 40 hours AND collect a full time salary.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 10):
I don't....you know why? I pay for these bureaucrats salaries..so yeah it bothers me...

You must despise me, according to you, lazy me gets four different kinds of handouts from the government.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
Oh poor government employees. ... witch hunts ? Sorry they should be audited at a even higher rate in my opinion.

But certainly not members of the military, because they would never in a million years do anything to cheat the system.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 23):
And somehow federal employees don't? Every Leave and Earning Statement I get shows quite a bit in taxes that I won't see again.



Yes you pay taxes back to government on money they taxed from someone else to begin with . So they tax me ... give it to you ..then tax you .. and give it back to you ? Sounds perfect !   

Look its not your fault .. I am not blaming you for it and I cant blame you for having a federal job... its a smart thing to do. Probably the safest place to be in America now and in the future.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
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