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For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?  
User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

This is starting to get disturbing.

On August 6, 2001, towards the end of last summer, it is now reported and confirmed that the President received "generalized warnings" about an al-Qaida hijacking plot, and Zacarias Moussaoui's capacity, in one FBI agent's words, to "fly something into the World Trade Center."

But the president did not publicize them or alert the public. Condi Rice, the President's National Security Advisor now tells us that the President couldn't reveal "all the chatter" about the pre 9/11 threats because of the anxiety the American public would be placed in. She spoke of disaster to the American civil aviation system if the warnings were made public.

What else did Bush know? We now know of the FBI alerts in Phoenix and Minneapolis on al-Qaida threats. What about the European alarms of explosive laden al Qaida aircraft at the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy or Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's dire warnings about an impending al-Qaida strike last summer.

Just on Friday the Associated Press reported that in 1999, a federal intelligence study warned specifically that al-Qaida might crash explosives-filled airplanes into the Pentagon.

And now most chilling, Friday's Washington Post just reported that the government's top counterterrorism official, Richard C. Clarke, gathered high-level leaders of the Federal Aviation Administration, Coast Guard, FBI, Secret Service and Immigration and Naturalization Service at a meeting July 5 and told them flatly: "Something really spectacular is going to happen here, and it's going to happen soon." All counterterrorism agencies were told to cancel vacations and nonessential travel. "For six weeks last summer, at home and overseas, the U.S. government was at its highest possible state of readiness -- and anxiety -- against imminent terrorist attack," the Post revealed.

But the American public was told nothing and the governmant began to stand down towards the end of the summer.

So Bush what did you know? Stop the political spinning. Stop attacking the democrats and questioning their patriotism as they demand a congressional inquiry. What happenend before 9/11 and on 9/11?

Remember the cowardly flights from one high security institution to another on that Tuesday as his advisors falsely claimed he was being protected from threats against him.

Some answers George?

TNNH

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1373 times:

Why is everyone after Bush? He is not a national security analyst, or terrorism expert. He's simply the boss. Blame the FBI and CIA for not being able to put the pieces together, if you like, but blaming Bush for all this is like blaming the Pope, as God's representative on Earth (I'm Catholic), for the floods and droughts this last year.

Charles


User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1366 times:

What did you want him to do? For God sakes, I'm pretty sure he never expected this to happen. You can't change the past. I seriously doubt there was anything that could have been done with the intelligence we knew, I'm sorry. Do you realize how many false terrorism warnings are given to him? We've learned from 9/11 that anything can happen... but before then I can't blame him for not sending a letter to every US citizen about the possibility of an attack.
-Chris


User currently offlineHamfist From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

Agree with Cfalk...

I'm sure the same people who told Bush about the potential for a hijacking probably told him several other "possible" scenarios that didn't happen. All Bush(and his staff) can do is try to consider the most likely scenarios and plan for them. You can't predict and prevent everything!


User currently offlineN202PA From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1352 times:

I've got to agree. It's ludicrous to assume that Bush is responsible for not alerting the nation of some generalized threats that they could not confirm. That is FBI/CIA territory, and if anyone is to blame here for not warning the public, they are.

As to the charge of "cowardly" flights on 9/11, I doubt that Bush had anything to do with those movements--it sounds like something the Secret Service would order. Even if he did, so what? That's not cowardly, it's smart. It's only logical that if the terrorists were targeting Washington, DC, they might try to take a shot at the President in order to create chaos and social instability. Keeping him moving around and his whereabouts secret was a smart move that protected the nation's commander in chief at a time where no one knew what was going to happen next.


User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1352 times:

Charles, I see your not from America and perhaps a little unaware of how our system works.

the buck stops in the Oval Office.

An American president is not a Prime Minister. He is the Commander-in-Chief. He is the top executive. All matters of this importance go directly to him and await his word. Some old guy 50 years said it correcly reminding a reporter "the buck stops here"

If our president has infortmation that can save American lives which apparently he had or should've had and if he didn't that speaks awfully poor on his leadership, he has a solemn and sworn responsability to act on it.

Charlies, Ignorance is no deffense. Yes its the FBI's problem and the CIA's, but that information goes to Dubya and its duty to do with it the right thing.

The real question is how much the Bush administration would have suffered politically if the nation didn't know it had to endure such hardships if he had acted on the August 6 infortmation, or else suffer what we did Sept. 11. But risk is crucial to political leadership. Bush's demurrer is a coward's way out.

In America we hold our leaders to terrifically high standards, but for a reason. This is where our tax dollars go. This is a primary reason we pay the government our taxes -- to protect us, and when it does not, to find out why.

TNNH


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1341 times:

Uh huh, "fly the planes into the WTC". ONE agent's comments. If he thought it would happen he should have informed his superiors and the FBI would have made a point of it.

To be honest, even if they did know what could they do? Put fighters into the sky and people scream civil liberties. You're fucked either way.

Not only that, but I'm sure the FBI deals with all sorts, and provides quite a lot of warnings to the Administration. It's very hard to determine what will and will not happen.

One final thing, we all know how stupid GWB is. Could it be he just didn't think it would happen?


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Why is everyone after Bush?... He's simply the boss.

You answered your own question.

I don't have one iota of doubt that the scenario was talked about long before it actually happened. Anyone who was shocked that an airplane could be used as a weapon to destroy something was a bit naive'. Of course it could. And on September 10th if you and I just happened to be discussing large, well known sites that could have been potential targets, of course the WTC would have come up as a possibility.

What is beginning to really stir my doubt is that there seemed to be elements within the FBI that WERE putting the pieces together...memos, the report out of Phoenix about Arabs in flight schools, and especially the red flag on Moussaoui out of Minessota . In fact they put so much together that the data reached the President's security briefing.

A dozen FBI agents can't alert America on their own. That takes a command decision. One that didn't come from the White House. Right now everyone is simply wondering if it should have or not, based on the pieces that WERE together.

The way Dick Cheney and Republican leaders are talking, you'd think the Democrats (and not just them alone) were claiming Dubya okayed the entire attack.

And this "it's unpatriotic to criticize the President" crap is getting really old.


User currently offlineKEWR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

Well in the last couple of weeks I have heard that Al-Qaeda is planning to:

Blow Up The Pentagon (Again)
Attack on The White House, Congress, National Museums, Sears Tower, Empire State Building, Walt Disney World, Cape Canaveral, St. Louis Arch and about 5693202 other things.

Was there a suggestion that they would fly planes into the world trade center? Probably. But then again, there was probably plots against countless of other targets. Did they know that the WTC would be the "one." I highly doubt it.

- KEWR


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

I still want to hear suggestions on what should've been done? Close down the WTC? Shut down civil aviation? Expell all Arabs out of any flight training? Let's hear it. Tell us the steps YOU would take. How long do you do it? 6 months? 2 years? 10 years? Forever? Then let's hear how Americans would've stood for any of those measures pre-9/11. Let's face it, simply sending out alerts would've accomplished nothing. What do you do different when you hear them? Just get nervous?


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

If he thought it would happen he should have informed his superiors and the FBI would have made a point of it.

Your either not reading whats written or your not understanding properly. This is exactly what happened. These reports went from an FBI field office in Arizona to a the US White House in Washington. People "made a point of it", why didn't Bush? And if he did, what "point" did he make??

there seemed to be elements within the FBI that WERE putting the pieces together...memos, the report out of Phoenix about Arabs in flight schools, and especially the red flag on Moussaoui out of Minessota . In fact they put so much together that the data reached the President's security briefing.

Perfectly said. Five months before Sept. 11 on April 18, 2001, the government warned airlines that Middle Eastern terrorists could try to hijack or blow up a U.S. plane and that carriers should "demonstrate a high degree of alertness." This was not one of "5693202" warnings, it was one of 15 information circulars sent to airlines warning of potential terrorism in the months leading up to 9/11

KEWR:

Your post is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you know or "have heard". It matters what our commander in chief has heard or knows as he is the one with the ability and responsability to act on it. You've missed the point entirely.

TNNH



User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1305 times:

"The Boss" can only make informed decisions if he has all the information. It's sounding more and more like Bush and the White House got pieces of the puzzle, but not all the information. I think the men in the hot seats right now would be the Directors of FBI and CIA for 1. apparently not passing all information on to the White House and 2. For not sharing information with each other.

The Buck does stop at the Oval Office, but if Bush was not aware of all the government knew, then the blame can't be put solely on him.

I've heard people say "well, Bush KNEW 9/11 was going to happen", which is a load of manure. There were hints out there that something might be afoot, but there have been many "hints" like that before. What would be inexcusable is if there were some general knowledge gleaned by the Administration that they might fly airliners into buildings, and security was not increased, as seems that it might be the case. THAT'S where heads could roll. Why wasn't commercial aviation put on a higher state of alert? That's where my concerns lie.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Well then TNNH, what would you do if you got that information? Not an attack, I'm just wondering.

User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40033 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

I am suprised GW Bush and his boys haven't blamed Clinton like everything else.

I don't see why the jerk is being hailed as a hero either?
He just so happened to be the occupant of the White House during the attack.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
I knew it would only be a matter of time before GW Bush would have to answer some serious questions.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

De javu..... Didn't I just post this identical topic?

JET



User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1294 times:

Hrm, some people would impeach Clinton for lying about getting head from an intern. Wonder what those same people would do about this, where GWB could have possibly saved a few thousand lives......

User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

777, good question. I really don't know what I would have done. But then again I'm not the leader of the world's sole superpower.

but if Bush was not aware of all the government knew, then the blame can't be put solely on him.

Oh come on Alpha! Sure it can. Your arguing the Enron defense. "Well we didn't know". Bullox. Sure, Bush didn't know 9/11 was going to happen exactly as it happened, and frankly we still don't know what he did and did not know, but we DO KNOW that there was a lot of speculation about what ended up happening from some pretty high up people and when your top counter-terrorism official says something "spectacular" is going to "happen soon" for godsakes you listen and act. If Bush was never told this, then that speaks awfully poorly on his leadership.

TNNH



User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

I think there's a bit of difference, 777236ER, in lying under oath and in not taking action based on incomplete intelligence data. If the Dems would even try to impeach the president over this, it would be seen as low-ball politics and looking for revenge. I think you could end up seeing the resignation of the head of the FBI and CIA in worst-case circumstances, but I don't think anything would happen to the prez, save a big dip in his approval ratings.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

TNNH, the president can say "The Buck Stops here" if he wants, but if his subordinates don't give him proper intelligence, then he cannot SOLELY be held to blame. Some of the blame can and will fall on him, but not all of it.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40033 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1275 times:

777236ER:
I agree.

Oh let me guess.
He's a uniter not a divider. Or um, he's a common folk kind-a person.
He's a compassionate conservative.  Yeah sure

It's time for GW Bush to come out and stop hiding behind Dick to answer some tough questions with out cue cards!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1275 times:

My point is Alpha, people were willing to impeach Clinton for basically fucking his intern. What about if GWB IS shown to have had clear warnings about a threat?

User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40033 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

Alpha 1:
TNNH, the president can say "The Buck Stops here" if he wants, but if his subordinates don't give him proper intelligence, then he cannot SOLELY be held to blame. Some of the blame can and will fall on him, but not all of it.

True!
I'd say we get rid of all those scum bags!





Bring back the Concorde
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1271 times:

but if his subordinates don't give him proper intelligence, then he cannot SOLELY be held to blame.

He's meant to control his subordinates. The buck does stop with GWB.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40033 posts, RR: 74
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1269 times:

777236ER:
The buck does stop with GWB.


That was also the case with Richard Nixon.




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1235 times:

What about if GWB IS shown to have had clear warnings about a threat?

And that is why a congressional inquiry is needed-to find out what specifically was known. My point is that, right now, it doesn't seem there were "clear warnings", which was a great choice of words by you, in all seriousness, and is what Congress should be boring in on-finding out if such clear warning were present, or were they just disjointed pieces of intelligence that didn't add up to a bigger picture. Excellent observation there by you. But IF it is found out that there was more than just disjointed pieces of information floating out there, and that the president DID have a decent idea that scumbag OBL was planning what he did, then he'll have hell to pay. But I still don't think impeachment would be the right way to go.


25 B757300 : More desperation by the left. The DemocRats don’t have anything to use against Bush so they’re going to try and blame him for Sept. 11th. If anyon
26 Superfly : B757300: i just knew it was a matter of time before someone on the right would try to link Clinton to this. Why can't Little Bush accept some responsi
27 Gator17 : Are you all kidding me? This is entirely politically motivated by Democrats, seeing as this is an election year. Even with the possibility of the slig
28 National_757 : Superfly, after the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, and the countless embassy attacks by Bin Laden under the Clinton administration, can you tell me what
29 Superfly : National_757 etc; OK so what you are saying is that 9/11 IS Clinton's fault?
30 Alpha 1 : More desperation by the left. The DemocRats don’t have anything to use against Bush so they’re going to try and blame him for Sept. 11th.
31 Post contains links National_757 : Ok Alpha, if you want a source for this OBL Clinton thing, here it is http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/weekend_sites/week_in_review_051302_051702/cont
32 Superfly : Alpha1: It's almost a waste of time arguing with some of these Bushlovers. They will only see him as a harmless angel. Not suprising considering Bush
33 Yazoo : I have to agree on one Point, Bush acted like a coward when he flew from one base to another while people were dying at the WTC and the Pentagon, I th
34 Post contains links National_757 : Here is one more for you Alpha...... http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/5/153637.shtml
35 Post contains images Superfly : National_757 etc: Rush Limbaugh source? Oh please! What's next? A Cracker Jack box source of information?
36 National_757 : Yazoo, that was very uncalled for. How could you say Bush acted like a coward. Our country was getting attacked and he sure as hell didn't know what w
37 Gator17 : Alpha, you are right, that whole Ken Starr thing was a bunch of BS too. There is tons of wasteful spending on both sides of the party line. However, y
38 National_757 : Whatever Superfly, I bet you didn't even take a minute to actually READ what was on the damn page.
39 National_757 : Superfly, you never answered my question, Superfly, after the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, and the countless embassy attacks by Bin Laden under the Cli
40 Gator17 : National_757, now we cant claim Bubba didnt do anything. As I recall he sent a couple Tomahawk missiles into some camps after the embassy bombing to k
41 Artsyman : This seems so petty to me, as Bush said on the tv "are people suggesting that I actually knew that on the morning of Sept 11th, that planes were going
42 National_757 : Whoa! Tomahawk missles! Man, I bet that scared the shit out of Bin Laden.
43 Alpha 1 : National 757, you really EXPECT me to take something from Rush Limbuagh as credible? He blames Clinton for every malady America has ever had since the
44 Post contains images Superfly : National_757 & friends: Hold tight pal. I'll answer your quetion later.
45 National_757 : Hey, that was funny Superfly, National_757 & Friends, kinda reminds me of my favorite show, Garfield and Friends.
46 Gator17 : Either way you look at it, there still isnt 1 man or even 1 administration to blame for all this. The chain of events started years ago and noone took
47 Cba : First Enron, now this. The secrets about Dubya just keep bubbling up.
48 Post contains images Superfly : Gator17: Either way you look at it, there still isnt 1 man or even 1 administration to blame for all this. The chain of events started years ago and n
49 Post contains images Gator17 : SuperFly: This is Florida, I really dont know how to vote. Even with the brand new optical and electronic voting machines we got, I gaurantee you some
50 Post contains images Superfly : Gator17: Has the primaries came yet in Florida? I hope Reno doesn't win the nomination. Otherwise, you have no choice but Reno.
51 Gator17 : Florida primary isnt till Sept 10. And if Reno gets the nomination, itll be between her/him and Gov. Bush, and theres a saying on campus here that "Ga
52 Superfly : Not to go to far off topic, but who is Reno's opponent in the Democratic primary?
53 Gator17 : http://www.politics1.com/fl.htm should help you out.
54 Superfly : The page cannot be found The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. ------------------
55 Superfly : Oh never mind! I got it now.
56 Twaneedsnohelp : I have to agree on one Point, Bush acted like a coward when he flew from one base to another while people were dying at the WTC and the Pentagon, I th
57 Arsenal@LHR : I think Bush was movind around AFB's due to security reasons, Air Force 1 was believed to be a target, although i'm merely speculating. Arsenal@LHR
58 Heavymetal : I have to agree on one Point, Bush acted like a coward when he flew from one base to another while people were dying at the WTC and the Pentagon, I th
59 Super Em : I'm sure Bush had credible sources but like everyone else could not believe that a plan so bold could be executed. If Clinton sat in front of the worl
60 Klaus : It´s hard to understand how the crappy airport security remained unchanged even though a credible threat was obvious (and I´m not talking about just
61 Twaneedsnohelp : I don't agree HeavyMetal. There was nothing to believe Af1 was being targetted, just a load of irresponsible speculation that kept Bush out of where h
62 Cfalk : Twaneedsnohelp, TWA may need no help, but you need a little help in your logic. You say that speculation about possible upcoming attacks pre-9/11 shou
63 NUAir : The only thing that this post and every other post on this and every other forum on the Internet proves is that the two party system in America doesn'
64 Bruno : NUAir Good point. Some people here in these forums only see things in black & white or Democrat & Republican. I am a registered Republican, big deal.
65 Lehpron : Has it occured to anyone that maybe this was meant to happen? Why would a country with such a world figure allow stuff like this to be kept secret and
66 ExitRow : Let's distill this down a bit. Let's assume that facts ARE facts and that there was credible evidence that hijackings in the US were inevitable prior
67 KAUSPilot : Oh please, the same people who are criticizing bush for Using AF1 as a mobile command center would be calling him dumb for making himself a sitting du
68 OA412 : And as I've said before, you should really think twice before you call someone with an MBA from Harvard an "idiot" or "stupid". Oh please, I am so sic
69 Twaneedsnohelp : You say that speculation about possible upcoming attacks pre-9/11 should have been heeded, Nope. "speculation" should not be heeded. Carefully collect
70 Pilot1113 : >>I have to agree on one Point, Bush acted like a coward when he flew from one base to another while people were dying at the WTC and the Pentagon, I
71 Pilot1113 : >>We needed a president in one place, clearly directing the governments response, while at the same time reassuring our country.>> So he can be an eas
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