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RIM Introduces The PlayBook Tablet.  
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Me want! Me want!

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/27/r...es-playbook-the-blackberry-tablet/

Thankfully the BlackPad and SurfPad names appear to have been ruses.

I was hoping it would be out before the end of the year (It had been rumored for a holiday launch.), but I'm guessing they want to make sure that everything is good to go. No word yet on prices, but I'm guessing that they'll try to price it as competitively to the iPad as possible (I wonder if Apple may rush the second generation iPad in order to steal some thunder from RIM.).

Now let's see if the rumored Android tablet from Google gets announced in the near future......

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8433 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2312 times:

The tablet battles are heading our way, and are giong to be interesting to watch.

The biggest problem I see for RIM is that they are not using Android or Win Mobile7. I can't see more than 3 OS platforms being profitable in a significant way. Sort of like when the IBM PC came out in the 80s. And I believe that the Big 3 will be Apple, Google and Microsoft. probably in that order when it comes to profitability..

And while I would love an iPad (yep, I'm a Mac/iPod/iPhone user) I believe that capacity, power and price will all improve over the next 12 months so I'll wait. Maybe.

As far as Apple delivering a 7" - that has been in the wind for a while. Probably way before Apple released v1. I also believe that Apple will be moving on cameras in all iPads, with FaceTime becoming a standard before the competition can set their own standard.


User currently offlineMrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2303 times:

Quoting srbmod (Thread starter):
Now let's see if the rumored Android tablet from Google gets announced in the near future......

There are already a number of Android-based tablets on the market - the Dell Streak and the Samsung Galaxy Tab are just a few of them. In addition, it seems like nearly every manufacturer that makes Android handsets has a tablet in the works - I know for sure that HTC has a family of tablets planned.

That said, I've never understood the recent craze over tablets - you can buy a laptop or even a netbook with more power, better battery life and far more usability for less money.



Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 2279 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 1):
And while I would love an iPad (yep, I'm a Mac/iPod/iPhone user) I believe that capacity, power and price will all improve over the next 12 months so I'll wait. Maybe.

The second generation iPad is rumored for Q1 2011.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 1):

As far as Apple delivering a 7" - that has been in the wind for a while. Probably way before Apple released v1. I also believe that Apple will be moving on cameras in all iPads, with FaceTime becoming a standard before the competition can set their own standard.

Second gen will have 9.7" screen, not the 7" that was previously rumored.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Apple...en-Suppliers-Indicate-156846.shtml

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 1):
The biggest problem I see for RIM is that they are not using Android or Win Mobile7. I can't see more than 3 OS platforms being profitable in a significant way. Sort of like when the IBM PC came out in the 80s. And I believe that the Big 3 will be Apple, Google and Microsoft. probably in that order when it comes to profitability..

RIM's BlackBerry devices operate on their own dedicated O/S and they recently introduced a new O/S for their smartphones. They bought QNX for their O/S and this device is the first O/S they've developed for an RIM device.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8433 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 2261 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
The second generation iPad is rumored for Q1 2011.


And FY Q1 2011 for Apple starts October 2010 IIRC.

It all depend on Apple ability to get product to market, but I bet they would love to have the second product for CHristmas.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
Second gen will have 9.7" screen, not the 7" that was previously rumored.

This is one of the articles I was thinking of:

Quote:
Though questionable, rumors of a 7-inch iPad from Apple continue to crop up, with a new report alleging the device is now a "finished product."
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=113294

With Apple you never really know until it's released - or a day or two before.

I guess I should have said that it would be the second iPad "design" and a smaller form factor.

That would put v.2 as the original size with upgrades, ike a camera and (maybe) a dual core processor,

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
RIM's BlackBerry devices operate on their own dedicated O/S and they recently introduced a new O/S for their smartphones. They bought QNX for their O/S and this device is the first O/S they've developed for an RIM device.

I know - which is why I'm concerned about their potential for success. I also forgot about the HP/Palm OS that is also heading for the tablet market.

That gives us a hefty list of major tablet platforms:

Apple
Google
HP
MS
RIM

One will be the volume leader and one will be the profit leader. Hard to tell right now which it will be. But I still believe that the market will shake down to 3 major players.


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 2255 times:

No Android OS?   
7" Screen?   

Well, looks like another reason to choose the iPad. Google better come out with something good as everything up till now has been very disappointing.


User currently offlinecorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

I assume this will integrate with corporations that are already running BB servers?

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20242 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 2217 times:

Just me or do some of the pics from the article make it look kinda thick?

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8433 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

Quoting corey07850 (Reply 6):
I assume this will integrate with corporations that are already running BB servers?

Unfortunately you need apps available for it to be a winner.

Google & Apple are delivering in that area. MS is paying iPad developers to move apps over. I think the HP platform will also be attractive.

Considering that this is such a "non-traditional" product segment I'd put my money on HP beating MS & RIM to be in 3rd place.


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

I always wondered what the final nail in RIM's coffin would look like.


I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4903 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Just me or do some of the pics from the article make it look kinda thick?

The Playbook is 10mm thick (0.4") as per specs vs iPad at 12.5mm (0.5").


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 2129 times:
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OMF'nG IT'S AWESOME!

I came thisclose to buying an iPad last week, but the form factor hadn't sold me - it was just a little too big to comfortably hold, particularly on a plane. This size device looks outstanding, and they nailed the biggies Apple forgot on the iPad:

- USB connectivity
- HDMI video out
- Forward-facing webcam

Throw in the ability to tether to your existing Blackberry, on top of WiFi? This is a winner for sure.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5178 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Unfortunately you need apps available for it to be a winner.

The device is POSIX compliant, therefore any software written for linux should be relatively easy to port over. Some of the rumours early on where it would support QT, again making porting existing linux apps easy.

It also supports flash and Adobe Air, making a lot of existing applications instantly available.

I was holding out for a decent Android pad, but I think im sold on this now!



That'll teach you
User currently offlineokees From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 7 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):
Throw in the ability to tether to your existing Blackberry, on top of WiFi? This is a winner for sure.

This is a problem for people like me who do not have a Blackberry. I find that this might be one of the biggest disadvantages of this device, that and their image/marketing is a distant second to Apples. Time will tell how successful this tablet will be.



mobs jakis
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8433 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 7 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Quoting okees (Reply 13):
This is a problem for people like me who do not have a Blackberry. I find that this might be one of the biggest disadvantages of this device, that and their image/marketing is a distant second to Apples.

It is a problem in that RIM has had a huge business focus while Apple has been very successful focusing on the consumer since Steve Jobs returned. It took a while for Apple to fight back, but even corporations moved to get their apps on the iPhone when they saw it's potential. And I doubt if they are waiting to move to the iPad.

I don't see RIM having that level of strength at the consumer levels.


User currently offlineyowza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4906 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

I'm here in San Francisco at Blackberry Devcon and I have to say this thing looks amazing and the specs are hot. Looks Like my iPad will be getting a little (bastard half) brother.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 2003 times:
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Quoting okees (Reply 13):
This is a problem for people like me who do not have a Blackberry.

Why? You can use WiFi on its own.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21495 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 12):
The device is POSIX compliant, therefore any software written for linux should be relatively easy to port over.

POSIX compliance is next to worthless in that respect. Pretty much any major system on the market has that (even for Windows there was an official POSIX layer at some time and compatibility is still relatively decent even now), but availability of end-user applications hinges primarily on high-level integration, which involves primarily the graphical user interface and the higher-level APIs.

Pure POSIX is only a tiny and usually near-negligible fraction of all the APIs through which a modern application interacts with the underlying system and its framework. That's no noticeable help in taking on the >250000 App Store from Apple.




Pre-announcing a relatively modest "me-too" product so far in advance makes this look a lot like a stop-loss attempt for fear of losing an increasing number of users to the iPad and - by extension and even more worrying for RIM - to the iPhone.

A few points:

- "Playbook"? Are they serious? No, obviously they're not. And that could be a problem, since RIM's primary perceived advantage nowadays is their business integration. I don't think many people will (literally) buy their sudden morphing into a "hip" consumer product company which sounds more than just a little bit desperate and disconnected from what they're representing so far. Even Apple spreads a substantially more neutral image of their products. RIM would be fighting an uphill battle against a dissonance between existing customer perception and attempted marketing direction. A somewhat dubious marketing decision.

- The 16:9 form factor is a bad mistake. I know that many people scoffed at the 4:3 ratio of the iPad thinking of letterboxed movie playback, but in actual, practical use, this has turned out to be a correct decision: Using the device in both landscape and portrait orientations would make the upright 9:16 format quite awkward and limiting – even with the 9.7" of the iPad, the screen should not be narrower than it is for decent usability. 16:9 does indeed provide differentiation, but I very much doubt many users will find it really practical, particularly at the much smaller size.

- The much lower resolution at 1024*600 vs. 1024*768 on the iPad (only about 3/4 the number of pixels) would noticeably constrain text quality when reading. 768 pixels across is not fantastic for regular full-page text but still relatively okay. 600 pixels is just too little for that, however. You would be zooming and scrolling a lot more often. Just resize a browser window to the two sizes and check for yourself.

- In contrast to pocket devices like smartphones which can be held in one hand by their edges, a pad can only be held with a single hand by a thumb holding the device from the front. The small size has an obvious drawback: Since the size of people's hands is constant, the bezel is by necessity still about as wide as on the much larger iPad while the display is smaller, which means the ratio of physical size to usable screen area is much worse. That is further exacerbated by the elongated 16:9 format, which again reduces the usable screen area and makes the narrow 7" display actually again smaller than the 9.7"/7" ratio alone would suggest (the angle of the diagonal is different, meaning that 7" in 16:9 is a smaller area than 7" in 4:3 would be).

- 7" is too small for convenient use in most circumstances, yet it is already beyond pocket size, particularly with the relatively wide bezel around the display. The iPad is roughly letter- or magazine-size which works quite well in practice. Have I ever wanted a lighter device? Yes, I have, sometimes. Would I be ready to pay for that with a much smaller and noticeably lower-resolution display and most likely shorter battery life? Absolutely not!

- Due to its announced(!) arrival date, this will not compete with the iPad V1 but with the next iPad V2 generation. So the perception of a performance or feature advantage will likely change substantially in a few months.

- It is pretty easy to make wondrous performance claims in advance – as long as you don't have to prove actual battery endurance. The Flash capability is also to be seen in that light. And, of course, RIM is banking on upcoming CPU generations which Apple will also be able to use (or, for power consumption reasons, may opt out of).

- Yes, it's announced to have cameras and a few other features which the iPad doesn't have in quite the same way (general multitasking is a non-factor here – by November all iPads will have that as well with iOS 4.2). At least not the V1 iPad, anyway. If the Playbook will actually reach the market, these may make a difference for some. But in the end the question is how well each device works in actual real life – just piling on theoretical features which never really work well in practice is not a very promising strategy. Let's see how RIM will fare with that nth attempt at that. But I'm not holding my breath.

I can see their difficulties wedging yet another "me-too" product into an increasingly crowded field of wannabe "iPad killers". This looks a lot like a very early concept at best - or just vapourware at worst.

Not a single really original thought to be seen.

If they actually go through with this, the question is whether the product will actually be able to live up to the heightened expectations of its buyers, particularly given the already apparent mistakes. They may have bitten off more than they can chew. This kind of product is anything but easy to get right. And their track record with touch-screen devices is not exactly stellar to begin with.

I'm not saying that it can't turn out decently, but I would very much warn against just counting nominal features. Making a product really work is hard, particularly one as challenging as a pad / tablet.

The iPad is not a successful product for its superficial features, but to a very large part for the quality of the software and the level of thought that went into even many marginally-looking details. My subjective impression is that RIM is going into this hoping that a superficial and slightly tweaked copy of the real thing might be enough. I doubt that it will be.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 1979 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
I don't see RIM having that level of strength at the consumer levels.

The consumer market has never really been RIM's target market for the BlackBerry. They've focused on the corporate market, and they've used their BlackBerry Enterprise Server as the main selling point of their devices since companies are concerned about the security of the info they transmit with such devices.

I think that the primary buyers of the PlayBook will be companies that already use BlackBerry devices. You will have folks like myself who are normal consumers who will buy it as well because it's a BlackBerry.

Is this the iPad "killer" that people have long thought would be released? No, as short of all of the iPads simultaneously bricking and becoming nothing more than expensive paperweights, nothing is going to come close to knocking the iPad off other than the next generation of the iPad.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Can anyone tell me why anyone would want a pad type device, I can't see any use for one, they look cool but why?

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21495 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
Can anyone tell me why anyone would want a pad type device, I can't see any use for one, they look cool but why?

I wouldn't say I actually needed my iPad, but since its arrival I've been using it for pretty much everything I once had thought I might use a notebook for but in real life never did: Couch surfing, running a TV program while cooking, reading mail or web articles on the train or during breakfast, showing pictures, watching videos, using maps / Google Earth, casual gaming, even for a literally "hands-on" presentation/illustration during a technical discussion.

Nowadays, I use my notebook computer only when I actually need a full-scale workstation on the road. Most other mobile uses are pretty well covered by the iPhone and the iPad.

It's "instant-on" and so easy to use that I actually use it more than any other mobile piece of kit ever before. Most things just take noticeably less effort to do, so I tend to use it more often.

With being able to literally touch the content, even the relatively intuitive mouse-and-pointer paradigm looks clumsy and complicated by comparison. Which eliminates much of the rest of the distance many people maintained towards the computer age and the internet.

When done right, this is really an attractive new product category, both for users and for manufacturers. It's just not easy to actually do it right as many previous failures have demonstrated (and at least most of the current would-be competitors will probably suffer the same fate all over again).

This is more than just a fad - it is really a new way of using computers more than it is just a redundant new form factor.


User currently offlineokees From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
Why? You can use WiFi on its own.

iPad allows me to connect to 3G. The 3G + the WiFi that the iPad offers is far more superior to the WiFi+Blackberry tethering the playbook offers.

Any reports on the price range?



mobs jakis
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1906 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Pre-announcing a relatively modest "me-too" product so far in advance makes this look a lot like a stop-loss attempt for fear of losing an increasing number of users to the iPad

How could RIM have been "losing users" to the iPad when they never had anything in this space before?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21495 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
How could RIM have been "losing users" to the iPad when they never had anything in this space before?


When you're using any iOS device (iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad), you can officially use all your apps and data on any other iOS device under the same account as well, and with trivial ease (even including all your preferences).

RIM not only doesn't have a comparable platform (and still wouldn't if the PlayBook should become available), they also risk losing existing Blackberry customers if these start using iPads.


User currently offlineFLVILLA From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

This is certainly a long time coming announcement from RIM !

Whilst I don't see it as a failure per se, I do think it's positioning as a hybrid consumer/business product will be its downfall in the long run.

I notice that nobody here has mentioned the Cisco Cius tablet; http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps11156/

Now this is a true business tablet, one that I should be getting my hands on in the very near future through my employer. There's a number of key differences though, not just in the technology with its Android operating system and built in Telepresence operability but as a whole with its actual marketing pitch....consumers are not the primary market.

Ironically both the iPad and the new RIM Playbook support many Cisco apps such as WebEx and Unified Communication.

Klaus; I'd be interested to know your take on how Cisco will do in this market, considering its different offering and not as a direct competitor to the iPad.



I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
25 Klaus : The presentation seems much more focused and consistent, indeed. The ideas seem convincing. But the presentation has never been the weakness of previ
26 Post contains images EA CO AS : Okay, if ever you said something that pointed out your blind devotion to Apple, this is it. You HONESTLY don't believe that additional battery life w
27 Post contains images swissy : Could not agree more.... but I think RIM realizes times have changed and they have to look into new frontiers to gain more market shares... lets not
28 Post contains links Ken777 : With a 10 hour battery life at full video? If I was going to go for one I'd want a front facing camera for FaceTime. Toss in one on the back from the
29 Klaus : Yes, seriously. As a developer myself I'm acutely aware that boosting battery life even further would automatically mean increased weight and bulk. T
30 Klaus : You don't work and you don't read the web on your TV's. And you don't turn them upright while doing that. TV's are for one thing only: Watching video
31 oa260 : The Galaxy Tablet might be good if they are not plagued by previous issues on their smart phones , only time will tell but from the presentations I ha
32 Klaus : One relevant issue I forgot to mention above: With a 9.7" 3:4 display there is enough space for a full-sized landscape keyboard which can be used at f
33 Post contains images swissy : It appears the 7" is going to be the size in the near future...every device has his limitation , as long the user can live with it not a big deal..IM
34 Post contains images Klaus : Except the one that actually sells. Use it next to a 4:3 and it will be obvious. Sure. Besides that...? With any given technology, more capacity mean
35 Post contains images swissy : Good one Klaus the question will be answered down the road .... It is all about mobility/compact if you are on the go.... you know like the Samsung 7
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