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Obama On The Attack  
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5383 posts, RR: 14
Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

So, President Obama has decided to call out Fox, again, and call them 'destructive'. In fact, the quote is:

"It's a point of view that I disagree with," Obama told the magazine. "It's a point of view that I think is ultimately destructive for the long-term growth of a country that has a vibrant middle class and is competitive in the world."
NY Daily News

But, just to contrast, The President feels that MSNBC's folks are just fine. In fact, they are:

"And if you're on the left, if you're somebody like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow or one of the folks who helps to keep our government honest and pushes and prods to make sure that folks are true to progressive values," Burton continued, "then he thinks that those folks provide an invaluable service. But at the same time, we need to focus our energy and our efforts on the choice that Americans have this fall."

Huffington Post

So, what do we think about that? Fox=Bad (Conservative), MSNBC=Good (Progressive).

I just don't get it. The man is probably one of the most partisan hacks to sit in the White House. At least he's not ashamed to show it.

Edit: I'd like to add that I don't recall if Bush, Clinton, Bush or Reagan ever called out a network by name. Yes, they all, as most presidents did, talked about the media, but I don't remember direct attacks. Maybe they did...

[Edited 2010-09-30 01:23:46]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

I never seen anything like it .... proving he is just simply a campaigner for a party that is all he is.

Has another President ever done this ? Attacking a opposition news outlet so fervently ? It makes one wonder that if he could would he shut them down ... I am serious . I believe if he could somehow get away with it he and the Dems would simply shut down FOX.
I believe that they are in fact trying or certainly have the FCC looking into it. Jim Wallace the FCC goon , has said that Hugo Chavez had to seize the press in order to "protect his beautiful revolution". So I certainly believe our Radical president would support it since he is dreaming of a very similar revolution .



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4557 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

The media as it exists today did no exist during Bush 1, Cliniton, and Reagen.

Fox news didn't start until halfway through Clinton's 2 terms, and was created to challenge CNN. It didn't even become polarizing until halfway through Bush 2's tenure.

So statements like the below, are red herrings as they have no form of context.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Edit: I'd like to add that I don't recall if Bush, Clinton, Bush or Reagan ever called out a network by name. Yes, they all, as most presidents did, talked about the media, but I don't remember direct attacks. Maybe they did...
Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
Has another President ever done this ? Attacking a opposition news outlet so fervently ? It makes one wonder that if he could would he shut them down ... I am serious . I believe if he could somehow get away with it he and the Dems would simply shut down FOX.

The Media is just as polarizing as the two parties, and personally i am starting to think that no one should vote for a democrat or a republican and no one should watch fox or MSNBC, I am sick of a bunch of folks that have no interest in America, but only in their self politcal sidings.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8816 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Edit: I'd like to add that I don't recall if Bush, Clinton, Bush or Reagan ever called out a network by name. Yes, they all, as most presidents did, talked about the media, but I don't remember direct attacks. Maybe they did...

Nixon did, but that was mostly behind closed doors. But it is pretty clear that he has the thinnest skin of any president since Nixon - maybe even more.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
The media as it exists today did no exist during Bush 1, Cliniton, and Reagen.

Fox news didn't start until halfway through Clinton's 2 terms, and was created to challenge CNN. It didn't even become polarizing until halfway through Bush 2's tenure.

So statements like the below, are red herrings as they have no form of context.

Oh come on, are you saying that the media was fair back then?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4557 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Oh come on, are you saying that the media was fair back then?

The Media at least used to be dish it out to both parties fairly equally. Now we have these Unfair and Unbalanced news outlets that are worse the the Chinese Communist State papers in controlling and directing info. MSNBC and Foxnews are far to TV news what the National Enquirer and World Weekly news were to Newstands



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
So, what do we think about that? Fox=Bad (Conservative), MSNBC=Good (Progressive).

FOX shows like the Factor are the most watched by last 10 years. Nobody watches MSNBC. End of discussion.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6582 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
FOX shows like the Factor are the most watched by last 10 years. Nobody watches MSNBC. End of discussion.

And this is good, considering FOX is not even trying to be fair and balanced ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3526 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

I don't think he has thin skin - I think Fox goes over the line, mainly with their opinion pieces, but it leaches into their hard news operation as well. Obviously, I'm a liberal, but I read the Fox News website multiple times a day. I like to get news from a varity of different outlets, and they certainly provide a spin on things that varies considerably from all other US Media's point of view. I almost never agree with their spin, but appreciate the context they put on things, as it does differ from my worldview. Their headlines are slanted toward the convservative viewpoint:

FOX News: Tax cuts in limbo as lawmakers skip town
NY Times: Congress wraps up session early as midterm races loom

Which one is slanted, and which one is even? It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Fox's headline shows genuine contempt toward Congress, thereby promoting their own viewpoint (OPINION) that this Congress sucks. The Times headline, on the other hand, tells you the facts. There's no positive or negative language at all.

But if you actually read Fox's article, it's not really slanted toward the Right by much, but the headline certainly gives the impression that it is.

I don't like to watch Hannity or Beck, mainly because their viewpoints lack any depth and the topics they flaunt are obviously designed to make the viewer believe there is some kind of terrible liberal-muslim-socialist agenda designed to ruin America. They say things like:

"Has there ever been a president that we've known so little about in the history of the United States?"

"This president hates America - I think it's just obvious!"

etc. Statements that no one argues with them about and are backed up by the same kind of blowhards (old ugly male or hot female) as the host.

On top of that - Fox has FIVE probable republican presidential candidates on their payroll as hosts or regular gusts. The five have made 269 appearances on the network, compared to six appearances on all of the other networks combined.

I mean, the points that I've made here are just a small sampling of the obvious bias the network shows every day. And I didn't even mention things like their shoddy copying and pasting of Republican talking points (straight from GOP press releases, TYPOS INCLUDED) and highlighting them as factual points on their News shows without any kind of vetting or fact checking at all.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21549 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
are you saying that the media was fair back then?

The biggest difference between now and then is that now you've got networks eschewing news programming for entertainment and commentary programming, where there is no particular journalistic obligation to be fair. Fox is not the only network to do that, but they've been the one leading the charge.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7239 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

We get all the US news outlets on satellite, I find them all generally unwatchable, I much prefer DW, BBC, Al Jazera, France 24, at least they take an interest in news outside of there own countries and I think provide a fairly balanced view of both sides of the political spectrum.

User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
FOX shows like the Factor are the most watched by last 10 years. Nobody watches MSNBC. End of discussion.

and conservative talk radio is far more popular than liberal talk radio. Do these facts that prove that more people agree with conservatives? It's possible. Perhaps the facts only show that conservatives like to get more worked up about politics and therefore find this kind of programming more enjoyable. Maybe it's a reflection on the skill of the individual entertainers (and that's what the all are on both the right and left). Maybe it shows conservatives need daily affirmation of their beliefs and liberals don't.

Just because something is popular doesn't make it right.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8816 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 7):
FOX News: Tax cuts in limbo as lawmakers skip town
NY Times: Congress wraps up session early as midterm races loom

Which one is slanted, and which one is even? It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Fox's headline shows genuine contempt toward Congress, thereby promoting their own viewpoint (OPINION) that this Congress sucks. The Times headline, on the other hand, tells you the facts. There's no positive or negative language at all.

But if you actually read Fox's article, it's not really slanted toward the Right by much, but the headline certainly gives the impression that it is.

Granted, one shows an opinion and the other does not. But don't you think that the Congress adjourning without passing a budget and leaving 300 million Americans wondering what their tax rates are going to be just 3 months from now is just a LITTLE bit irresponsible and worthy of contempt?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6792 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

It’s just foreshadowing and palaver for reinstituting the so-called “Fairness Doctrine” which would essentially be the largest power grab and destructive act against the First Amendment that could be perpetrated.

Obama’s lashing out like a petulant child. Keep it up, bubba, your days in office are numbered. Your grip on power even moreso. REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

So when I Turn on Fox and hear Allen Combs , Geraldo , Beckel , Steph Miller , Juan Williams , Bill Clinton , Hillary Clinton , Peggy Noonan , Kirsten Powers , Ellis Henican , Barney Frank , The Code Pink chick , John Stewart , Michael Moore , Barach Obama , Dennis Kucinich , Michelle Obama , Rev Wright , Bill Ayres , that crazy immigration lawyer , Jesse Jackson , Al Shrapton ....... and many many other liberals ... is that destructive to the Middle class ? All of them have been guests . Fox has too many libs on for me.. to be honest .

I want to here from conservatives, and I want to here what they are planning and doing politically. I don't really care to here Allan Combs view point ... I know what it is, it is the same old boring stuff. We need to care less what the opposition is doing and work harder to get our message across ... if we win or lose is not the point its ideas and actions.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3526 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
But don't you think that the Congress adjourning without passing a budget and leaving 300 million Americans wondering what their tax rates are going to be just 3 months from now is just a LITTLE bit irresponsible and worthy of contempt?

Whether I do or don't is my opinion - and it's up to me to make that decision. It's Fox "News" job to tell me what is happening without putting a slant on it, which that headline does not do. They could have even mentioned the tax cuts in the headline without being so negative:

"Congress ajourns without addressing taxes"
"Tax issue still on table as Congress adjourns"
"Midterms on the horizon as Congress tables taxes"

Or any number of other headlines that would connect Congress leaving without taking up the tax issue. Instead, Fox resorted to using "skip town" which most people associate with committing a crime or something like that.

Maybe I'm just hyper sensitive to that sort of thing because I went to journalism school - most people probably aren't. But from a journalistic prospective (which should be what Fox is trying to achieve), it's crap.

Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
It’s just foreshadowing and palaver for reinstituting the so-called “Fairness Doctrine” which would essentially be the largest power grab and destructive act against the First Amendment that could be perpetrated.

I hope the fairness doctrine is not re-enacted. But I can see valid reasons for why people think it should be.

I have to force myself to listen and read viewpoints that do not line up with my belief system or values, mainly so I do not get a one-sided take on all things. People who only rely on conservative opinion talk for their "news" are not hearing any opinions that diverge from their own. Their opinions are only reenforced by opinion, and they take that to mean that they are correct. That's not how it's supposed to work.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21549 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
But don't you think that the Congress adjourning without passing a budget and leaving 300 million Americans wondering what their tax rates are going to be just 3 months from now is just a LITTLE bit irresponsible and worthy of contempt?

Perhaps. But that's for the viewers to decide, not for Fox to declare. You know, the whole "we report, you decide" deal.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6792 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 14):
They could have even mentioned the tax cuts in the headline without being so negative:

"Congress ajourns without addressing taxes"
"Tax issue still on table as Congress adjourns"
"Midterms on the horizon as Congress tables taxes"

it's not the media's JOB to be "positive" don't you get it?

It's their job to be the watchdog of government, a role they abdicated a long time ago. The Founders had some great concepts on a free and indepedent media, but envisioned it as a check and balance to be the town crier for the people.

Today, the "old media" is essentially a puppet for the left leaning politics. There shouldn't be any side taken, except for the side of always asking WHY and being a bulldog to keep public servants honest.

And those headlines above are factually accurate and correct.


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5383 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
The Media at least used to be dish it out to both parties fairly equally.

No, I 've read about the media back then (late-1700's - early-1800's) in biographies of John Adams and Ben Franklin (he took part in the attacks), among others. They were vehement and partisan, even more so than today (or so it seemed), but the higher level politicians would never attack a specific outlet. They would attack the entire sector.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3526 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 16):
s not the media's JOB to be "positive" don't you get it?

Not sure where I said that the media has to be positive?

News headlines and news articles should be neutral - and "neutral" does not mean negative or always down on the government. It means neutral - like the headlines I suggested as an alternative to the Fox News headline.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 13):
So when I Turn on Fox and hear Allen Combs , Geraldo , Beckel , Steph Miller , Juan Williams , Bill Clinton , Hillary Clinton , Peggy Noonan , Kirsten Powers , Ellis Henican , Barney Frank , The Code Pink chick , John Stewart , Michael Moore , Barach Obama , Dennis Kucinich , Michelle Obama , Rev Wright , Bill Ayres , that crazy immigration lawyer , Jesse Jackson , Al Shrapton ....... and many many other liberals ... is that destructive to the Middle class ? All of them have been guests . Fox has too many libs on for me.. to be honest .



MSNBC has conservatives on all the time: Pat Buchanan and ... and ... and ...?


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I'd like to add that I don't recall if Bush, Clinton, Bush or Reagan ever called out a network by name.

Poor FOX. Poor baby, getting named by a politician.

Oh, wait. This is Glenn Beck's network, isn't it.         

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
FOX shows like the Factor are the most watched by last 10 years. Nobody watches MSNBC. End of discussion.

Every time I turned onto FOX there was some rabid talking head - I lasted 15 - 20 seconds.

Turn on MSNBC very seldom, but at least Rachel is funny at ties.

Want both sides of the political aisle in one show? CNN is the only place I have found it. It's balanced with both sides making their comments and not taking a rabid, screaming stance.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 7):
I don't think he has thin skin -

He has a black skin and that's sufficient for a lot of people against him.


User currently offlinesantosdumont From Brazil, joined Dec 2003, 1201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
FOX shows like the Factor are the most watched by last 10 years. Nobody watches MSNBC. End of discussion.

Sure, and Britney Spears has had more #1 hits than Led Zeppelin. End of story, right?



"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
Nobody watches MSNBC. End of discussion.

Except you, and very often it seems!



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Quoting santosdumont (Reply 22):
Sure, and Britney Spears has had more #1 hits than Led Zeppelin. End of story, right?

Great comparison   

The Rolling Stones still sell more tickets than anyone including Lady Gaga when they tour what's your point? FOX's ratings merely point out the majority of the country doesn't buy into the secular progressive agenda Rachel Maddow tries to push. Which the election results will also bring to light. I am sure the results will be blamed on FOX as well. Maybe sometime along the lines of they are emitting a brain wave from their building in NY and it's brainwashing the country? Get a tin foil hat!



User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5383 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
He has a black skin and that's sufficient for a lot of people against him.

You really do think this is about race, don't you? I see it in other threads.

You don't think it has anything to do about his arrogance? His pettiness? His policies? His direction? His bulliness?

He acts like a petulant child when he doesn't get his way. Unfortunately, this child has political power, diminishing, but it's still there.

You don't think it has anything to do with his inability to get even his party to toe the party line?

I shudder at the whining and crying we'll hear when he is running a 2 year lame-duck administration. Wait until his media starts attacking him when they start looking for a candidate for 2012.

Please, this isn't about race, it's about his incompetence.

To paraphrase Dennis Miller...You've been a crap president. Man up and admit it.

[Edited 2010-09-30 13:47:35]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
25 AGM100 : Yes they are doing there part at the "destructiion of the middle class " as well. I mean we cant have our poor little sheeple hearing those big bad c
26 santosdumont : Nice refudiation. The point stands. Ratings are an inaccurate yardstick when what's it issue is content: Star Trek is a case in point. It's more like
27 NIKV69 : People that buy into this crap probably don't but they have to continue the charade. It is the only way to explain away opposition. Keep your friends
28 planespotting : - What arrogance? He's admitted mistakes and taken blame for a lot, many things he shouldn't have, unlike the Bush administration, which almost never
29 Post contains images OA412 : Checkmate, game over, it's out of the park! Part of it is about race, and to bury your head in the sand and deny that race has anything to do with so
30 santosdumont : Another invalid comparison. We're talking about content. Not gimmicks. Ask the segment of Obama's googly-eyed supporters who are now in the throes of
31 NIKV69 : Your celebrating a tad early huh? I will see if you have this enthusiam on the morning of Nov 3rd. None of this about race. You can't accept your man
32 santosdumont : Nice speculation. Source. Wrong. Last time I checked, there was still freedom of assembly and the right to petition for redress. They aren't? The num
33 Post contains links planespotting : Actually, 11 percent fewer people think 9/11 was an "inside job" than that Barack Obama is a Muslim. "Last year, Public Policy Polling found that jus
34 Post contains images fr8mech : Has he admitted Healthcare Reform is a mistake? No. Has he admitted Stimulus 1,2,3,etc have failed? No. Has he admitted to handling North Korea an Ir
35 Post contains images Ken777 : Not totally, no. But there has been an undercurrent since Obama ran. Posts in national publications calling him "Obammy". Articles about the KKK incr
36 Post contains links NIKV69 : LOL Your telling me the truther movement doesn't exist? This doesn't even deserve a response but I will provide you with proof your side has crazies
37 santosdumont : No, I'm telling you to show me factual evidence that 25% of Democrats think 9-11 was an inside job. Guess we have our answer. I didn't say "my" side
38 Slider : So disingenuous, Ken. Imply from afar, under the guise of plausible deniability. Skip it. Why don't you just come right out and say what you're reall
39 JBLUA320 : I'm a moderate, so forgive me for this, but... It took the last administration 8 years to sufficiently screw things up... I think it's only fair to gi
40 planespotting : Please show that he is wrong on any of this, or that any of these have been a mistake? Other than just saying "no" and putting in emoticons. I get th
41 NIKV69 : Votes were counted and Gore lost. The process is what it is. Deal with it. Ok so 14% isn't 25% so every GOP member or Republican is a birther? It's s
42 474218 : I must disagree, the last two year have provided huge results. The problem is they have been hugely "bad".
43 fr8mech : Which were the 21st-24th months (give or take) of the Pelosi/Ried congress. He promised Stimulus wouldn't let it get passed 8% (or so). He promised m
44 Post contains links Dreadnought : Only in the liberal media, as far as I saw. I have never seen that. According to the Anti-Defamation League, current KKK membership is estimated to b
45 planespotting : How about you name a few legislative triumphs of the Pelosi/Reid pre-Obama Congress that were put into law without Bush's signature? Again, name some
46 Ken777 : I highly doubt that. Now there were some "panty sniffing Republicans" that went ofter Clinton, but in the end it was show to only be political attack
47 Post contains links fr8mech : First, I supported TARP. Look around, you'll see that. Not because I didn't want to see banks go under (some failed miserably in their business manag
48 Ken777 : What happened? Lots of things. The burst mortgage bubble didn't heal itself in a month or two. The auto bailout has taken some time, but is getting b
49 NIKV69 : Not for GM. Polls show people avoid them and would rather buy a Ford because Ford refused the money. It was getting in bed with the UAW. If GM couldn
50 Post contains links Ken777 : Old news. Today's news: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/business/02auto.html?ref=business The $1,200+ added to the price of each car GM sold over t
51 Post contains links NIKV69 : Today is old? http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...void_buying_gm_cars_due_to_bailout It's not old news and in fact it's a stimga that will stick w
52 Post contains links planespotting : FYI, I didn't personalize this any beyond your screen name. And I wasn't trying to insinuate that I don't agree with you or that you're somehow less
53 fr8mech : Just seemed a little too patronizing and I've spend way a lot of time and energy to be where I am. Tell me about Ford, who did not take the bailout.
54 Ken777 : That's like saying look at Apple compared to, say, Dell. What matters to Apple and GM is how well they are doing in their own business. Are they prof
55 NIKV69 : No it isn't. Your in the minority.
56 planespotting : They're doing better, obviously, considering they were in a better position before the economic crisis and did not need a bailout. But GM is almost a
57 Ken777 : It is in terms of what I'm saying. Apple has a fraction of Dell's market share, was close to bankruptcy in the late 90's. Today the situation is a lo
58 NIKV69 : What are you talking about? Apple puts out products everyone wants. Your telling me all of a sudden people are going to want GM cars over Ford, Chysl
59 fr8mech : What's the saying? The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. He was wrong. I think the data bears that out. We should be much further along tha
60 planespotting : Um - they weren't until after Steve Jobs returned. Then - they invented the iPod, which gave them a huge branding opportunity (the ixxx) and they too
61 Ken777 : Not when they were about in bankruptcy. That's my point. And it has taken a decade for Apple to get where they are. And Bush was right? We were in th
62 Dreadnought : Which brings to mind - when do you think the iCar will come out? He is good, but a little flaky sometimes, which is why he got fired from Apple the f
63 NIKV69 : Yes now how is GM going to get anywhere when nobody want's their products? Apple had a lot more going for it like huge demand, not having to give in
64 Post contains images TOMMY767 : That's not exactly true though. Chevy has arguably turned a huge corner in terms of quality. Plus you also have Cadillac and Buick which are premium
65 Post contains images Ken777 : He gort fired because some soda water salesman thought he was better than Jobs. We know how that turned out. Don't think so. I read his book and he d
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