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The First World War Is Now Over  
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6846 posts, RR: 11
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

It transpires that earlier in the week, Germany made its last payment on bonds issued to pay for reparations for the First World War, after various interruptions (the '30s, WW2 and the two Germanys), prompting some historians to say that the war is finally over.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europ...eparations-ending-century-of-guilt

I never knew they were still paying, but then again I never knew that Britain was paying off loans for WW2 until quite recently.


wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3787 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

Quoting oly720man (Thread starter):
I never knew they were still paying, but then again I never knew that Britain was paying off loans for WW2 until quite recently.

West Germany signed a treaty for German debts of WW1 and WW2 (and the other debts of the Third Reich) in the 1950s (Londoner Abkommen). This revised the Versaille treaty and other claims so that Germany got more favourable conditions.

After all this was a wise move, because Germany regained its reputation on the financial markets which were threatened by this unsolved solution.

The main reason that the "2 plus 4 treaty" from 1990, which in reality is a peace treaty, and which ended the german occupation once and for all, was not called a "peace treaty", was due to the fact that the London treaty of the 1950s would have been reviewed again.

The original Versaille treaty had some other conditions, according to it, Germany should have paid for reparations until the 1980s.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3787 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

See also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_German_External_Debts

The german Wikipedia Version of the article is much better though, if you speak german, you should read it!


User currently offlinewaterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Interesting that this event take place possibly just before the last living combatant of that war, a British sailor living in Australia, passes away-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Choules


User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6846 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
The german Wikipedia Version of the article is much better though, if you speak german, you should read it!

My German is rather rusty and basic, but I'll have a go when I've got some spare time.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
The original Versaille treaty had some other conditions, according to it, Germany should have paid for reparations until the 1980s.

And your great grandchildren are picking up the tab. The money to be paid was a hell of a lot, and we need no reminding where that led.

I'm not sure how many people at the time appreciated the potential implications, but after the "war to end all wars" I expect the desire to make people pay overrode all other considerations.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently onlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6171 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2637 times:
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Quoting oly720man (Thread starter):
Germany made its last payment on bonds issued to pay for reparations for the First World War

Who were they paying? Who held the bonds?



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10937 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2602 times:

I had two grandfathers in WWI - they took part in the whole war.
One of them I never got to know. He was gone when I arrived.
The other one I knew but not for very long.
Verdun... Taxis de la Marne...

RIP GrandPa 1 and GrandPa 2.
No More War!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineoldman55 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1525 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
RIP GrandPa 1 and GrandPa 2.
No More War!

At least there are no more wars for them. Sadly; I,m afraid that won't happen for the rest of humanity untill the earth is no longer around  



too bad most of us get too soon old and too late smart
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2766 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

Montréal is still paying for the 1976 Olympics.

Debt is primarily a bad thing.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3787 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
I had two grandfathers in WWI - they took part in the whole war.

I have an ashtray at home, which has the iron cross of my grand-grandfather, and the certificate when it was issued to him in 1916, under it. Obviously my grand-grandfather didnt care much for it, probably he had seen too much in the war already.

One Year ago i was in Ypres, and I took some pictures of the german cemetary in Langemarck and the Menenpoort for remembrance of the English troops who were not even found(and from the car a picture of a Canadian cemetary).

The area is simply covered with dozens of cemetarys.








User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 626 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

I think I'll stick with the narrow idea that the war ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month (of 1918).

The completion of some sort of re-worked reparations payments is pretty dubious as a marker.

In a wider sense, some might argue that the Great War has never ended, and except for a few breathing spells and time outs, we are still dealing with issues it created.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
Who were they paying? Who held the bonds?

I think it may have been Sweden, but 100%



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6846 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
Who were they paying? Who held the bonds?

All I can find is the catch-all "private and institutional investors" in various countries.

http://haas414.wordpress.com/2010/10...-one-years-after-berlin-wall-fell/

And the payments were interest payments on bonds issued in the 1920's. Germany paid the principal, but not the interest until Germany was reunified.

Payments were suspended in the early 1930's due to a global financial crisis and Adolf Hitler's Nazi government never restarted them. Only in 1953 did West Germany agree to begin repaying the principal debt on the bonds.

It was agreed at an international conference that the interest payments would not begin until Germany was reunified. When the Berlin wall fell in 1990, the country began its interest payments, the last of which will be made on Sunday, October 3.


http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=189637



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2272 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
Who were they paying? Who held the bonds?

I think it may have been Sweden, but 100%

Part of it. Up to the 1983 we had a monopoly for match sticks. The reason was that in 1930 a Swedish match manufacturer Ivar Kreuger gave the German government a huge loan at good conditions to pay for reparations, but demanded a monopoly on all matches sold in Germany until his loan was paid back.

Jan


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

May the shameful way the war ended (the Versailles treaty that led directly to WW2) be put to rest now. France and the United Kingdom should have pitched in to make payments on those bonds, since they were the primary beneficiaries of them.


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently onlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6171 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2214 times:
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Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 10):
I think I'll stick with the narrow idea that the war ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month (of 1918).


That is always how I remembered it. This past summer I was in the UK and saw several memorials with the ending date of WWI in 1919. The friend I was hanging out with explained that the war actually did end in 1919. Which explained a trivia game "error" I saw in a bar a few years back. I was playing one of those game machines that sits on the bar and when the trivia question about what year did WWI end came up, 1918 was not one of the choices. I was dumbfounded because I always thought of 11-11-18 was the end of the war. When I got the answer wrong it showed the correct choice was 1919.

The USA considers a WWII vet anyone who served between 12-7-41 to 12-31-46. The WWII victory service ribbon was awarded to anyone who served on or between those dates. There is a separate service ribbon for those that served at anytime between 9-1-39 and 12-6-41.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
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