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Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?  
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3166 posts, RR: 9
Posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

What parts, if any, of the Bible do you see as history? What do you see as allegory?


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

I see all of it as untrue.

I'm not one to knock what people believe in, but I personally don't.


User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

Some of the less "mythical" aspects probably occurred and got twisted and expanded over time, (as all good stories do). The character of JC was probably loosely based on a real person, and the church saw an opportunity to write a bit of propaganda

So yes, there are probably some bits based on fact. However, the overall premise....complete hogwash


User currently offlinegosimeon From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

I'm sure Jesus existed, but the Biblical accounts of his life do not qualify as historical fast - that's why you need "faith" I guess.

Do I think water separated, water transformed to wine, a snake talked and the Earth was made in a week? No.

People are entitled to believe that sort of thing if they want, though it seems like a compilation of local myths and legends to me.


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 1):
I see all of it as untrue.

Me too.

The old testament is the belief of a bronce age tribe and the new testament is the belief of (one of hundreds) cults from this bronce age tribe, written hundred years after the events around the founder of this cult, representing only the interpretations of the writers, about these events.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
(Seneca, the Younger)

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently onlineipodguy7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 349 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

I believe in 100% of the Bible.


Next Trips: BNA-ORD-LHR-JTR, HER-CPH, CPH-ARN-CPH, CPH-LHR-DFW-BNA, BNA-DFW, DFW-BNA-DFW (X3)
User currently offlineaerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2830 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

I try really hard not to, because I see it as hearsay. Of course I went to a school that was practically run by the church, when Ireland was pretty much a religious state, and it's kinda scary how much it gets inside your brain, even when you are 6 years old, and makes you kind of brainwashed. I'm kind of trying to undo it all now, and just believe in sense. But I still get a bit scared that God will strike me down for disbelieving. Catholic guilt eh?


Cabin crew blog http://dolefuldolegirl.blogspot.ie/
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Which bible? There are so many to choose from, and each puts its 'translator's" own interpretations on things. For example, King James Authorised Version has in the Ten Commandments, "Thou shalt not kill."

This seems pretty straight forward: thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not kill. Ah, but there's the problem. How can you justify pressing people into an army and ordering them to slaughter people? Why, you rewrite the bible and it becomes, "Thou shalt do no murder." Killing is killing, but murder is a judicial construct that allows for killing that is lawful and that which not lawful is murder.

A lot of people pick and choose which bits to keep and which to throw away. Some will emphasize the Old Testament, other will ignore it.These days it seems that even the Anglican Church doesn't necessarily "believe in the bible".
Me, I recognise that the bible isn't "The Bible", but a collection of manuscripts written at different times, adding some extra texts and excluding others (apocrypha, pseudepigrapha and Deuterocanonical books). It is part history, part an elaboration of a legal and/ or moral code, part fiction.


User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

I think the writers of the books themselves were mostly good people themselves, but who were by and large documenting events they hadn't witnessed, and hence like fisherman's tales went from "the fish was this big" to "the fish was This big" to "the fish was THIS big", before reaching the ears of those who would immortalise them. As such I think many if not most of the stories have an element of truth, but should not of themselves be considered truth.

I think the compilers of the bible as we see it now were doing so for entirely political reasons, editing at will, and reducing the integrity of the stories yet further.


User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1403 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In All, Some, Or None Of The Bible?  

I believe in all of the Bible.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinegosimeon From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 5):
I believe in 100% of the Bible.
Quoting Severnaya (Reply 9):
I believe in all of the Bible.

Not trying to know your faith or anything here guys, but I am always confused when people say things like this. If you totally believe in the Bible, how do you feel about/justify scripture like:

-Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
-Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
-People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
-If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
-If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
-Talking snakes, light before the sun, the Earth being flat etc...

Once again, this isn't meant as an insult, but I would appreciate if "Bible believing" Christians could offer some insight into whether they believe and accept these verses and many others like them...


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3062 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

I don't believe in barely anything of the Bible.


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinetz757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2868 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

The only things I believe in are the moralistic values stemming from the book. I do think many of them are pretty key to maintain a somewhat sane society. Example being, If everyone was able to kill everyone, then society wouldn't exist right now.


LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlinegosimeon From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting tz757300 (Reply 12):
The only things I believe in are the moralistic values stemming from the book. I do think many of them are pretty key to maintain a somewhat sane society. Example being, If everyone was able to kill everyone, then society wouldn't exist right now.

But are those values really given down to us from Religious scripture? I mean, some societies in Europe today are full of atheists and there are no mass killings going in. Some Eastern religions rely very little on handed-down scripture and they are probably the most peaceful religions.


User currently offlinetz757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2868 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 13):

But are those values really given down to us from Religious scripture?

Well, perhaps not, but I do feel it has a influence on societies due to the widespread following of the bible (and its variants).



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2731 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

I absolutely believe that 100% of the bible(s) are false!

But I do believe that Dorothy followed the Yellow Brick Road and met the Wizard!  


User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1403 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 10):
If you totally believe in the Bible, how do you feel about/justify scripture like:

How I feel about some versus, well you're quoting some rather 'cruel' versus, that indeed can be read as offensive to people. However, I read the Bible completely (from the book of Genesis till the book of Revelation), and your quoted texts are only 1 side of the coin. You've to keep in mind that these 'punishments' were given to the Jewish people when it was a very primitive time, and they were living amidst the surrounding tribes which sacrificed children among other things. God did not want His people to follow them and created harsh punishments for those doing those things.

For me, being a Christian i'm not only bound to the first 5 Books of the Bible but have thank God about 60 more. The Levite sacrificial system is for me abandoned by Christ's sacrifice. For me it's great that Jesus came to Earth, where He was ultimately crucified and I believe He was risen from death also for me. He fulfilled the Torah by showing what it means to love God and the people (Mark 12:30-31). He showed love by conquering death as an innocent and thus enabling for people to have eternal life. (John 3:16). This however does not mean that the Thora can be removed from Bible but Christ showed its true meaning of the Thora by explaining parts, see for example 1 John 3:16(love and life), Ephesians 4:28 (stealing and working), Ephesians 5:25 (adultery).

As an example:

Quoting gosimeon (Reply 10):
-Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

And again, read further in the Bible where in John 8:7 is written "They kept on asking Jesus about the woman. Finally, he stood up and said, “If any of you have never sinned, then go ahead and throw the first stone at her!”.

[Edited 2010-10-09 07:15:15]


Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinegosimeon From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 16):
God did not want His people to follow them and created harsh punishments for those doing those things

Then, in fairness, why did he make people sacrifice their children? Why did he kill all the pregnant women and new born children in the Bible? For example:

"The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords." (Hosea 13:16 NLT)

Do you really think the God you know did that? If not, does that not mean you do not fully trust the Bible?

I just don't understand how you can read all that and think the Bible is an accurate reflection of any god. I have pretty much read the whole book, and some parts of it (especially the older parts) are plain sick in my opinion. The NT is mostly nice, to give it credit.  

Once again, hope you don't take this as an affront to your faith. I totally respect people of all faiths and none for their beliefs. I just don't get it when people say they fully believe everything in the Bible.

EDIT

Just thinking, this will go on and on like all other threads of this kind, so I guess I will leave the topic be and agree to disagree with you. I would hate to be insulting to anyone's faith, so I will leave it be.

[Edited 2010-10-09 07:43:55]

User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1081 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

None.







.



I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

My point of view on religion is somewhat Bill Maher-esque so I'll leave it at that.


Cheers
User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3210 times:

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 5):
I believe in 100% of the Bible.
Quoting Severnaya (Reply 9):
I believe in all of the Bible.

Same here. The Old Testament is filled with hate and loathing but the New Testament is all love and Jesus.

We know that something remarkable happened because it is written in those books. The fact that we can't get our heads round those events is our own problem and something that keeps us pleasantly occupied.

It's a great read.


User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Chalk me up with the non believing section.

I can sit here for the next 4 or 5 days and write a book full of contradiction that makes no sense too...


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 7):
This seems pretty straight forward: thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not kill. Ah, but there's the problem. How can you justify pressing people into an army and ordering them to slaughter people? Why, you rewrite the bible and it becomes, "Thou shalt do no murder." Killing is killing, but murder is a judicial construct that allows for killing that is lawful and that which not lawful is murder.

A lot of people pick and choose which bits to keep and which to throw away. Some will emphasize the Old Testament, other will ignore it.These days it seems that even the Anglican Church doesn't necessarily "believe in the bible".
Me, I recognise that the bible isn't "The Bible", but a collection of manuscripts written at different times, adding some extra texts and excluding others (apocrypha, pseudepigrapha and Deuterocanonical books). It is part history, part an elaboration of a legal and/ or moral code, part fiction.

You have summarized my feelings about the texts known as "The Bible".
It all came from oral tradition and transmission and many changes have occurred to the said texts until there was printing and the Gutemberg Bible.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

For the non-believers my I suggest: "The Bible As History" by Werner Keller.

The things that can be proven far out number the things those that cannot!


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19600 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

The names of some places are probably true. I mean, it does name the Euphrates river.

That's about it, though. None of the events described in the Bible have stood up to Historical investigation.


25 MadameConcorde : It is more a matter of understanding and interpreting than believing. Believing can be totally blind and done with no understanding or very little of
26 Post contains images David L : For the record, I suspect a lot of it was based on what some people of the time really believed. However, I have no reason to believe that the contrib
27 474218 : I take it you haven't yet and properly have no plans to read the book I suggested? Since there were few audio and video recorders around during those
28 Giancavia : Dont have to dissprove. It has to be proven. I can say i just sat here and spoke to 8 aliens for the last 20 mins. Doesnt make my claim real .. coz i
29 Post contains images David L : Hmm... it doesn't sound quite as promising now. Sorry. What I'm looking for are reasons to believe they did happen.
30 ShyFlyer : I believe that it, the Bible, is the word of God. Since I believe in God, and that the Bible is His word, then I guess it stands to reason that I beli
31 474218 : Since you are looking your half way there, unlike people that refuse to even look, yet say they don't believe. Do I believe everything that is writte
32 Post contains links NAV20 : I see the Bible as an 'anthology,' written by many (at least a hundred) different people. It's a collection of writings, some of which are exact repor
33 Post contains images David L : But wasn't it written by mere human beings? And why aren't tales of dragons "the Word of the Dragon" or tales of Zeus, Apollo. etc., "the Word of the
34 Post contains images QXatFAT : I believe the Bible to be 100% true. Wow that is a strong statement. Just like above...strong statement. Do you not believe in a King Herod? Do you no
35 Giancavia : With you I find it baffeling However I can see why certain groups would choose to believe more then others. For example old or sick people whos lives
36 David L : [quote=QXatFAT,reply=34] "100% true", "100% false" - both "very strong statements". In my opinion, the chances of either being right are slim to nil.
37 Powerslide : None. I have bigger things to worry and care about in my life than some fictional fairy tale written, and re-written by human beings. If believing in
38 Post contains images David L : I can also see how people would want an explanation for Life, the Universe and Everything, why we're here, why there are eclipses, floods, earthquake
39 PSA53 : About 65% of it.I won't say most because there is a lot mankind misinterpretations,political perspectives and society attitudes of whatever times invo
40 AustinAllison : To say that EVERYTHING in the bible is false is absolutely crazy, and likewise, to say that everything is true is crazy. I'm not a Christian, but some
41 Post contains images Springbok747 : I don't believe in organized religion..so don't believe in any religious book actually...
42 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Agreed, however, the few true parts to it are probably greatly dramatized. But its safe to say most geographical locations, rivers and what not are l
43 photopilot : And thus he tries to prove that one version of the word of god is more true than another version of the story of god, hensforth proving the falsehood
44 QXatFAT : Sorry but the examples you give are extreamly bad. The two examples you give are movies that DO NOT claim to be true or the truth. The Bible claims t
45 zrs70 : Harsh statement about the "Old" Testament (The Hebrew Bible). Sure there are passages that are difficult. But there are also passages of incredible l
46 ajd1992 : I have my own reasons as I'm sure you do - It's how I was brought up. I honestly do not see the truth in anything that's written in the bible but tha
47 photopilot : So let's see, you want me to find a false story that CLAIMS to be true, to allegorically show that the false story that you claim to be true is in fa
48 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Agreed - although the former do rather tend to outnumber the latter. I'm surprised that few people so far have mentioned the New Testament. The prima
49 Quokka : The New Testament also has its contradictions. Not only do we see different genealogies for Jesus, but differing accounts of it. What is significant
50 iairallie : I belive it to be the word of God so far as it was translated correctly. Some is literal, some allegorical and all of it has been distorted and filter
51 AR385 : I do not care if the bible is true or not. I primarily care about living in a world where wether people believe it to be true or not, are allowed to e
52 rlwynn : I am not meaning to insult anybody or disrepsect peoples beliefs but, I think religion is the worst single thing that has happened to mankind.
53 Mudboy : And why is that, because you disagree with it? Because it does not accept you? Because it has rules that you don't want to follow? Because you are to
54 san747 : I agree with rlwynn in general and I feel that religion has done more harm than good overall, but I also agree with you- if you're happy, then I have
55 Quokka : I couldn't agree more. Sadly throughout history and even today religion is used to justify acts of violence and we see so many instances of religious
56 HAWK21M : I look at the Bible as a good book of Information,but I need to adapt it in todays world.
57 474218 : The Bible is an "historical document". You can not rewrite history, what happened happened, good bad or indifferent, it happened, you can not adapt i
58 QXatFAT : Study some more...then possibly you can come with a good objection to a book full of history. I am sorry to hear that. I think you already know this
59 TransIsland : What are you talking about? The Harry Potter series? The Star Wars saga??
60 RamblinMan : Like most fundamentalists, I believe in all of it, verbatim. Just not the internal contradictions, or the parts I don't like. Seriously, though, it's
61 ajd1992 : I know for a fact what he was spouting was a crock of shit, but it doesn't make it any less painful to hear, especially under the guise of Christiani
62 QXatFAT : So are you saying all PM and Presidents that claim to be religious (this is every President of the United States) has done a bad job because they are
63 kiwiinoz : I just noticed this when reading back the thread. Happy Birthday me! Do I get something???
64 iairallie : Yes but you can distill the lessons from history and apply them to similar situations you face in life today. Calling someone stupid because their be
65 texan : I believe in most of the teachings of the New Testament and the historical traditions. As in, I believe many of the historical traditions happened. Bu
66 Quokka : Unless we can speak old Aramaic, ancient Greek and other languages and have access to the original texts how do we know that "it" was translated corr
67 babybus : Well, herbal remedies work but there is no research to back that up. If you take valarian or Chamomile or lavender that puts you to sleep yet there i
68 Quokka : To be honest I haven't bothered to research what studies have been conducted into Valerian or chamomile, but if you were selling those products, or e
69 747srule : I would suggest reading 2 Timothy 3:16. The Bible has been proven by science and archeology.In regards to Old Testament commands,Jesus came to superse
70 san747 : It's been proven that the people who wrote it existed, not that the Bible is true, especially because those people who wrote it wrote quite different
71 Powerslide : More or less, religion or religious views has no place in politics.
72 tugger : People do know that the Bible has been edited over it's life time, don't they? Why is The Word of God editable? Tugg
73 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Because god tells the editors to do so
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