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The Tea Party Isn't About Anti-Muslim Sentiment.  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_el_se/us_nevada_senate_angle

Or is it?

Quote:
U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle told a crowd of supporters that the country needs to address a "militant terrorist situation" that has allowed Islamic religious law to take hold in some American cities.

Her comments came at a rally of tea party supporters in the Nevada resort town of Mesquite last week after the candidate was asked about Muslims angling to take over the country, and marked the latest of several controversial remarks by the Nevada Republican.

Glad it was finally said at an "official" Tea Party event. Of course, they can always dodge this because no Tea Party event is ever "official" because technically, the Tea Party doesn't exist.

Time to own up.

Especially because no Sharia law is recognized or in force in the United States of America. She has compared anyone who opposes her to the Nazis.

I have a question, Ms. Angle: when you blame all of your problems on a given religious or ethnic group, who do you start to resemble?

I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Not a comparison I draw lightly, given the number of Survivors in my family.

[Edited 2010-10-09 11:43:12]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):

I have a question, Ms. Angle: when you blame all of your problems on a given religious or ethnic group, who do you start to resemble?

I have a question for you, where exactly is she blaming all her, or our. problems on a given religious or ethinic group? Should I begin to list the off the wall statements that Senator Reid has made? How about starting with "The war is lost"? Nice way to support the troops there Senator. Need some more? Does that mean that everyone in the DNC is a defeatist?


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Not a comparison I draw lightly,

Reductio ad Hitlerum at its finest.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Not a comparison I draw lightly, given the number of Survivors in my family.

Get out of town. You throw your Jewishness around constantly. And as a fellow Jew, it's embarrassing... especially when you make such silly statements.

Ms. Angle is akin to Hitler? Uhh, no. You belittle the very survivors you shamelessly pimp for your political ax grinding. More importantly, you sport the same blatant ignorance as Angle, by clearly failing to grasp our history, and how to make appropriate comparisons.

Just as she ought to apologize for saying such a dumb thing, you ought too as well. Shame on you.


User currently offlineAustinAllison From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2765 times:

Islamic militant-ism needs to be addressed.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 1):

I have a question for you, where exactly is she blaming all her, or our. problems on a given religious or ethinic group? Should I begin to list the off the wall statements that Senator Reid has made? How about starting with "The war is lost"? Nice way to support the troops there Senator. Need some more? Does that mean that everyone in the DNC is a defeatist?

Did he blame the problems on one specific ethnic group?

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):

Ms. Angle is akin to Hitler? Uhh, no. You belittle the very survivors you shamelessly pimp for your political ax grinding.

Is she akin to Hitler? No. But she invents a fiction that these horrible Muslims are going to force their way of life on all of us and that we "Real Americans" need to fight back. Actually, there is no place in the USA where Sharia law is in force and there are no situations in which any Muslim group has tried to legislate it into place. So she incites hatred and fear against Muslims, who are doing nothing wrong, and uses it to try to get elected.

Hitler incited hatred and fear against Jews, who were doing nothing wrong, and used it to get elected.

I will say it again: if you start to speak out against a given ethnic or racial group, you have something in common with Adolf Hitler. I need hardly point out that Osama bin Laden falls into the same category.

And I will not apologize for saying so because it's a fact.


User currently offlineIH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1142 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 4):
Islamic militant-ism needs to be addressed

I would agree that the issue needs to be addressed. However, I think that there are some in political groupings, not just in the US, who - inadvertently or conveniently, depending on the situation - portray Islam and militant Islamic groups as largely the same thing. I don't think this is helpful, whatever one's personal views about Islam happen to be, not least because it a) encourages prejudice against people who don't deserve it and b) imparts to militant Islamic groups an elevated status that they neither possess nor deserve.

From what I can see as an outsider, the Tea Party as a movement doesn't seem to be that interested in pushing an anti-Muslim message; however, that's not to say that some or many of its followers aren't, and I think it's worth watching how this progresses to measure its impact.

[Edited 2010-10-09 14:19:11]


Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Get out of town. You throw your Jewishness around constantly. And as a fellow Jew, it's embarrassing... especially when you make such silly statements

Doc got to agree here.

Angle is a little out there and this statement she has made is totally insane. Still doesn't mean the TP is anti Islam. It's just what the left wing media wants everyone to believe so they don't get votes. It's getting old.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):

Angle is a little out there and this statement she has made is totally insane. Still doesn't mean the TP is anti Islam.

Then what WOULD mean the TP is anti-Islam? A bunch of them cheering this statement?


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Hitler incited hatred and fear against Jews, who were doing nothing wrong, and used it to get elected.

See! You can't even get your own history straight, so how can you possibly be trusted to make appropriate comparisons?  
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
And I will not apologize for saying so because it's a fact.

No, it's not.

You throw that Hilter comparison around with such ease, and with such disregard for the real history our of people, it's sickening. I would have no problem with you speaking truth to power, when it comes to Sharon Angle. She's hardly the best replacement for Harry Reid. But... you completely undercut your credibility, when you belittle the political intercourse with your BS Hitler references!

“Americans should be able to disagree on the issues without coloring it with Nazi imagery and comparisons to Hitler. This is not where the debate should be at all.” - Abraham Foxman, ADL National Director and a Holocaust survivor

If you want to constantly remind us that you practice the Jewish faith, perhaps you ought to first embrace the history and true lessons of our suffering and injustices. That history, which you so poorly understand, is the essence of who are... it's not just another weapon for you to wield in your political bickering.

Want to go after Angle? Fine. But don't pervert your Jewish faith, by denigrating the significance of what Hitler meant, and did, to our ancestors.


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

I think you'd find it hard to find a Tea Party that was predominantly anti-Muslim in some fashion. The right political force has increasingly used fear of Muslims as a political tool, especially in election years, since 9/11. The difference between now and then is the fact that it's done overtly. In the Bush years, you just slap a new terror warning or raise the threat level. It's becoming very disturbing however, that it's gotten so cruel.

Look, from what I can tell, most people here are intelligent and generally compose eloquent arguments, no matter what side you are on. The problem with "us" is that we forget that the majority of Americans in both parties are sheeple and are not as educated on issues.

That's all fine and dandy, except when your politicians play on that ignorance, which is exactly what right-winged politicians seem to be doing lately.

I have to agree with Doc partially by saying that what Angle did is the same tact that Hitler did leading up to his election. The majority of the extreme right are doing the same things. Causing large masses of people to hate the minority in order to win the election. While I will assume that 50% of these people do not have anti-Muslim sentiment, it's hard to justify that believe when they go and act like babbling and whooping monkeys when Angle says such things.

My faith in American people has really gone downhill. Sure they'll do anything for their own kind, (white, Christians or perhaps Jews, depending on where you are from), but when it comes to someone who seems different, well, don't count on it. Just look at those crowds. 98% white, 98% Christian.

Churches regularly teach anti-Islamic sentiment, and even anti-Jewish sentiment. Especially the evangelicals, which is where you find much of the Tea Party going to church.

Point of the matter is, if you can make someone hate someone on the other side, and make that side guilty by association, then you win votes.

So she is using a tactic of Hitler if you read your history, but Hitler wasn't the first or last to use that tactic. I don't think she is going to advocate extermination of Muslims though.

They say that if any argument goes on for long enough online, someone will invoke Hitler or the Nazis.

UAL


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Did he blame the problems on one specific ethnic group?

What "problems" does she blame on Muslims? She stated, according to the story you linked:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Quote:
U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle told a crowd of supporters that the country needs to address a "militant terrorist situation" that has allowed Islamic religious law to take hold in some American cities.

Perhaps if you you had put up the entire quote....by why bother when its so much more inciting to quote just the racey part.

Angle responds that "we're talking about a militant terrorist situation, which I believe it isn't a widespread thing, but it is enough that we need to address, and we have been addressing it."

"My thoughts are these, first of all, Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under constitutional law. Not Sharia law. And I don't know how that happened in the United States," she said. "It seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing a foreign system of law to even take hold in any municipality or government situation in our United States."


There is a first amendment case going foreward in Dearborn over Christian Arabs that wanted to distribute leaflets at a fair and were denied permission by the police, even though they had been able to do so freely in years past at the same fair. Meanwhile in the next town over the Muslim call to prayer is allowed to be broadcast over loudspeakers 5 times a day. That is what the man in the story is refering too. I have no idea what she is talking about in Frankford. All in all it is nothing more than an off the cuff, off the wall comment that all politicians, even the President (we've been to what, 57 States so far?) are prone to make.

http://michiganmessenger.com/39903/d...cused-of-violating-first-amendment

It would have been nice to hear her full statement since ABC's Sunday morning program last week featured a Mullah from London claiming that the flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House. Perhaps she was referencing that, without further detail we won't know. Or the comments made by the wife of the Mullah wanting to build the Mosque in lower Manhatten that Sharia law is compatiable with our Constitution. But again, she specifically addresss militant terrorists and if you have a problem with addressing that situation, then you have the problem.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 10):
I think you'd find it hard to find a Tea Party that was predominantly anti-Muslim in some fashion.

I would agree with this.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 10):
The right political force has increasingly used fear of Muslims as a political tool, especially in election years, since 9/11.

But not that. Please state your sources.

[Edited 2010-10-09 16:07:33]

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5306 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2639 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Glad it was finally said at an "official" Tea Party event. Of course, they can always dodge this because no Tea Party event is ever "official" because technically, the Tea Party doesn't exist.

Don't worry, I'm sure it was taken out of context.  
Quoting IH8BY (Reply 6):
I would agree that the issue needs to be addressed. However, I think that there are some in political groupings, not just in the US, who - inadvertently or conveniently, depending on the situation - portray Islam and militant Islamic groups as largely the same thing.

   For far too many people in this world, all extremists are muslim and all muslims are extremists. It really does show how little some of us truly know and understand about the world around us.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinecaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2635 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Mullah from London claiming that the flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House

I hope to God that never happens....that Mullah sounds like he's drinking the kool-aid...


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2587 times:

I don't see how people can keep painting the TP under a single brush stroke. It isn't even formally organized. Saying the TP is anti-Muslim/gay/whatever is like saying that liberals are all crackheads because I know a crackhead liberal. Don't believe everything you see on TV, and remember, the media only shows you what's interesting, not the normal, non-racist Tea Partiers

(not trying to call anyone out, or even this thread. there are many anti-____ threads out there)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks ago) and read 2577 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Then what WOULD mean the TP is anti-Islam? A bunch of them cheering this statement?

No. She is a libertarian and is followed and cheered on by fellow libertarians. Still doesn't make the whole TP out to be Libertarian. No matter what you do people are not going to embrace Islam. I don't like many of the things they practice though I would never interfere with their right to practice it. Are they forcing it on us? Of course not but this woman is just trying to get votes and your playing the bigot card again.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks ago) and read 2566 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 12):
For far too many people in this world, all extremists are muslim and all muslims are extremists. It really does show how little some of us truly know and understand about the world around us.

   Absolutely spot on. There is a very good book written by Karen Armstrong, "The Battle for God" (Knopf, 2000), which really fingers the problem: it's not Muslim fundamentalism that's the problem, it's fundamentalism itself that is the problem: my way or the highway, in any religion.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/a/armstrong-battle.html

http://www.christianethicstoday.com/...By%20Karen%20Armstrong_029_29_.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_for_God

Not only a penetrating look at fundamentalism in the three major monotheistic faiths, but it also provides readers with a thumbnail history of Islam and the Arab world, of which most Westerners are painfully ignorant.

Once you've read one of Ms Armstrong's books, you'll be hooked, she's a very authentic expert on religion. Was a nun, now teaches at a seminary, also writes I believe for Al Hayyat. Sort of covers the waterfront.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8184 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):

No. She is a libertarian and is followed and cheered on by fellow libertarians

Hardly so bub. As a proud libertarian, I can say most of us don't give a damn who is what or where they're from - we're all equal before the law - that's what liberty is all about. She may be flying under that banner, but all she really presents herself as is an idiot.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I have a question, Ms. Angle: when you blame all of your problems on a given religious or ethnic group, who do you start to resemble?

I have an answer: One Mr. Adolf Hitler

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today, and you provided it shamelessly. So Sharron Angle is the next Adolf Hitler? Clever! You know, you really can't be effective in demonizing a group without some basis of truth or acceptance in it. Why do you think Obama is constantly bashing the Wall Street "fat cats", or better yet, GWB? Tell me, how much traction would you get if you tried to make the Amish the scapegoats for this stagnate economy? My guess would be none.

As for the muslims, can I send you the transcripts from the Times Square Bomber's statements in court after he was sentenced in court this past week? He mentioned something about Sharia Law and the war with muslims just beginning in America. Hmmm.... interesting. You know, there was a time in this country when muslins were just another benign group in this country that drew little attention. Even when a terrorist campaign started abroad (i.e. highjackings, public bombings, and so on) there was little interest in them as being an enemy. Did you see that after the Beruit bombing of U.S. troops? What about the bombing of a West Berlin disco where G.I.s frequented? How about Pan Am 103? Well things have changed, and so has the sentiment. Sharron Angle and the tea party members aren't the reason why I can't take liquids over 3 ounces on board an airliner, or why I am required to take my shoes off at the security checkpoint, are they?



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2416 times:

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 18):

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today, and you provided it shamelessly. So Sharron Angle is the next Adolf Hitler?

Yes, because "start to resemble" is semantically equivalent to "the next."

What other words would you put in my mouth?


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 10):
They say that if any argument goes on for long enough online, someone will invoke Hitler or the Nazis.

And just like "Remember when..." is the lowest form of conversation, Doc's Hitler comparison is the lowest form of debate.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Yes, because "start to resemble" is semantically equivalent to "the next."

There is no "resembling" what-so-ever. It was a lame comparison no matter how you cut it. And I don't think you needed to qualify the comparison with reminding us that you're Jewish... any person, of any religion, can make dumb comments, you don't need to be Jewish to say such things! In fact, I'm sure a lot of Jews would prefer you not link us to your wacky comments!


User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Yes, because "start to resemble" is semantically equivalent to "the next."

What other words would you put in my mouth?

Cool move there - avoiding the rest of the post.

I'd like to see some reaction to the other stuff he said - but thats just me.



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently offlinecharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Of course hard core Muslims are such open minded people and the tea Party isn't

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2357 times:

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 21):

Cool move there - avoiding the rest of the post.

The first part told me that I didn't need to finish.

Quoting charlienorth (Reply 22):
Of course hard core Muslims are such open minded people and the tea Party isn't

I don't think anyone is arguing that we should be welcome Islamic fundamentalists into our country. Unfortunately, our Constitution gives anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hindu, or Bhuddist the right to hold fundamentalist beliefs. I honestly think that if the founding fathers had known of the dangers of religious fundamentalism, they might have worded the First Amendment differently.


User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
I don't think anyone is arguing that we should be welcome Islamic fundamentalists into our country. Unfortunately, our Constitution gives anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hindu, or Bhuddist the right to hold fundamentalist beliefs. I honestly think that if the founding fathers had known of the dangers of religious fundamentalism, they might have worded the First Amendment differently.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't care if someone has fundamentalist religious views (regardless of the religion). I do have a problem with people who elevate that fundamentalism to the extreme where it becomes "OK" to murder thousands of people in the process. And right now, there's only one group from a certain religion who seems to be doing that right now against Americans. And I think that Hitler would feel the same way, too. Or so I've heard. But that's just a rumor I heard from a F/A on a flight from Dulles the other day.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
25 DocLightning : But it's a very short trip. If the Holy Text MUST be true, then anything contrary to the Holy Text must be destroyed. Yes, this decade that seems to
26 PSA727 : I think I need to buy a new Thesaurus because it doesn't list "buildings" when I looked up the word "people".
27 Post contains images NIKV69 : Honor killings. Making women cover up, arranging their marriages, don't let them drive or vote and beat them or kill them if they practice western va
28 iairallie : Actually, he's Jewish but I'm pretty sure he is an Athiest and so he doesn't practice any faith.
29 Quokka : I suspect that they knew about those dangers well enough. They remembered that many settlers had come to the American colonies to escape persecution.
30 DocLightning : That's one way to look at it, but it's not so simple. The Puritans who came to the America were religious extremists. The British were more than happ
31 LTBEWR : I think one of the fears as to 'Sharia Law' and some 'Tea Party' supporters, is the possible situations of recognizing certain areas of Islamic cultur
32 Quokka : Absolutely. It would have been extremely difficult for a passenger on board a ship in 1620 to pen an Amendment to a Constitution submitted to the sta
33 connies4ever : Arranged marriages and beatings of women are not peculiar to people with Muslim heritage. Many, many immigrant groups to both Canada and the USA have
34 OA412 : And this is proof that Sharia law is going to be implemented in the US? Seriously? Guess what? They still are a benign group. To imply that all Ameri
35 NIKV69 : No way, your telling me I can to Asia or Europe and see men beating women in the street like in the middle east? Ahhhhh NO.
36 Post contains links dxing : Just a cursory reading of this says that civil courts and State law trump this. http://www.newhavenregister.com/arti...nion/doc4ca41ba517b30503569760
37 OA412 : You can see men assaulting women in the street in many American cities and you really think you're not going to see it in parts of Asia and Europe?
38 Post contains links NIKV69 : Oh yea I see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KzaEoQ8Vrw In Vegas, LA, San Diego. All the time! Quit while your behind.
39 Quokka : Not long ago someone posted a link to a video of French police beating and dragging a woman holding a child. Should we infer from this that all frenc
40 Post contains images ALTF4 : Thats bull, and you know it. You just cannot make an argument against what he said, pure and simple. I usually respect your opinion, but a cop-out li
41 sw733 : I am not a big Tea Party supporter, but I am going to come out and say this...and I'm curious if anyone on the left has ever, ever, ever thought it: I
42 NIKV69 : Absolutely spot on. I find it apalling the Dems are spinning the beating they are going to take in two weeks as some historical thing that always hap
43 PSA727 : Wow, 16 men. That's it. Well, it should be really easy to wrap up this problem. It's only 16 men causing all this mess.
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