lewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3448 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3171 times:
Sometimes people get the impression that, just because the UAE is a rich country with awesome tall buildings and nice hotels and beaches, it is a very progressive country. Well, it is not, it is still a conservative Muslim country with laws based on Sharia. To tell you the truth, the above article doesn't surprise me one bit.
Even if the majority of residents are international as the article states, it is still their country and they decide what laws they want for their country. Don't like it? Don't visit the place or move there!
Isn't it about time we stopped judging other nations on there local laws ?
One way or the other, its up to them to decide whats appropriate or not in UAE society isn't it ?
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2707 times:
All dreams of bombing the place aside, what is with this strange country? They're wealthy and they want to be a modern first-world place, yet you hear this sort of stuff and realize it really is still the dark ages there.
They may have an indoor ski resort, but buildings there don't have addresses- no joke.
And I seriously don't think you can be taken seriously in the western world if domestic violence is legal. At least I hope not.
Quokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2672 times:
In this day and age decisions like that are wrong (not that I am suggesting that they were ever right) but let us remember that it isn't all that long ago the civilised countries had equally abhorrent laws. It's barely twenty years since apartheid was overcome in a country where most people regarded themselves as Christian. In the US today there is still debate about gays serving in the armed forces and in most countries around the world gays can not marry. At least we are free to debate the issues, but remember the bit about "first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye."
As to not travelling to the UAE, to each his/ her own, but there are other countries whose laws I don't like. I don't support the dealth penalty, but that hasn't stopped me travelling to countries that still have it, like Malaysia, Singapore and India among others.
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 15): but buildings there don't have addresses- no joke.
Really? They do have street names and most businesses use PO Box addresses for snail mail.
directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1569 posts, RR: 12 Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2539 times:
A lot of Muslims don't believe that wives should be beaten/physically disciplined. It's a shame the UAE continues to pass laws like this (this is just the most recent in a string of equally ridiculous court rulings) but I guess to each their own. Theb Gulf countries are extremely conservative. Let me point out it's a cultural thing-nothing to do with the UAE being a Muslim country i.e. Islam 'allows' men to beat their women.
falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5673 posts, RR: 29 Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2523 times:
Quoting directorguy (Reply 5): Let me point out it's a cultural thing-nothing to do with the UAE being a Muslim country i.e. Islam 'allows' men to beat their women.
I think that there is a lot of cultural things that get put into religion, that the religion says nothing about. This isn't just an issue with Islam either. I think this happens with just about every religion.
Quoting Quokka (Reply 4): but let us remember that it isn't all that long ago the civilised countries had equally abhorrent laws
to those on the outside looking in yes, but maybe not for the majority of people living there. Rhodesia was shunned by the world and look what happened? We got Zimbabwae. Maybing shunning Rhodesia wasn't such a good idea after all.
There are lots of people around the world, and here in the USA, that think putting criminals to death is abhorrent, while others, like me, think it isn't done enough. You are never going to get everyone to think the same. It is not one world
I don't think men should beat their wives and kids, but I don't want to tell the government of the UAE, or any other country, what to do.
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2507 times:
Quoting directorguy (Reply 5): nothing to do with the UAE being a Muslim country i.e. Islam 'allows' men to beat their women.
I don't think anybody here is arguing that. I'm merely arguing that for a place that is trying to impress western society with it's 7-star hotel, fake islands, skiing in the desert, etc, this sort of thing reveals the truth.
I know of many fundamentalist Christians who barely stop short of saying its ok to beat your wife. They certainly beat their kids, but that shouldn't (and hasn't) stopped many US States and European nations from prohibiting it.
I'm the biggest advocate of total religious freedom and tolerance you'll ever find, but religion IS NOT an excuse to do whatever you like.
Starbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 592 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2493 times:
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 7): I know of many fundamentalist Christians who barely stop short of saying its ok to beat your wife. They certainly beat their kids, but that shouldn't (and hasn't) stopped many US States and European nations from prohibiting it.
I don't know where you got that little tidbit about Christians beating their wives because it is not in anything that I have ever read or been taught. Beating your wife or children with the intent to harm them is just wrong, period.
But giving your kids a good spanking every now and then if they deserve it is not "beating" your kids. I had my share when growing up and my children had far less that I did but still got some, and neither myself nor my "grown" children have any mental hangups over the issue, and raise their children the same way they were brought up.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2487 times:
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 7): I know of many fundamentalist Christians who barely stop short of saying its ok to beat your wife. They certainly beat their kids, but that shouldn't (and hasn't) stopped many US States and European nations from prohibiting it.
What a phony straw man. That's not the way it works, at all. No Christian church I've ever been to teaches this. Sounds like you're just making this up for some lousy agenda.
Wife is your equal in a marriage. Man is "spiritual" head of household--but marriage is a 50/50 partnership. NEVER OK to beat your wife. Never OK to touch your wife or kids in anger. EVER.
For kids: Spanking OK (seems we could use more of this lately). Beating NEVER OK.
falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5673 posts, RR: 29 Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2476 times:
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 7): I know of many fundamentalist Christians who barely stop short of saying its ok to beat your wife. They certainly beat their kids
Who are these people? Nearly all of my friends are regular church goers and they belong to a number of different denominations. None of them beat their wives and kids, or would tolerate those that would. There are lots of people who beat their wives and kids and they come from every kind of religious, economic, and ethnic background. Some people are just creeps.
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2445 times:
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 7): I know of many fundamentalist Christians who barely stop short of saying its ok to beat your wife. They certainly beat their kids, but that shouldn't (and hasn't) stopped many US States and European nations from prohibiting it.
You are making stuff to put it simply. No Christian church or supreme court in any Christian country says its ok to whack your wife. What a load of BS.
EK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2411 times:
This is the original article from the original source rather than the other media sources who only seem to report the negative or controversial side of the story
I am totally against any beating of anyone and I know alot of Emaratis from the new generation who also are totally against any kind of beating of any family member. These are laws of the past and the current UAE young generation are educated and don't follow such rules. The Emarati girls are educated and some of them occupy high positions in the UAE government. These Sharia Laws must and will eventually change cause times have changed. Also people have changed and life has changed.
Unfortunately one statement from a judge that has been reported by hundreds of international media has made the UAE people, arabs and more look like cave people. That is not fair to generalize. Things don't change over night, but they are changing. Honor Killing, the worst ever rule or law that can be even thought off, is illegal and punishable by law in many arab and muslim countries, yet immediately people start commenting about it everytime there is the slightest article to make the arabs look like animals. But you know what, I only blame ourselves for all this, when we can be working harder to improve education, living standards and much more, and stop crying foul on this and that. The new generation will eventually make the difference and time will only tell
Today the Judicial Chief has added a note on this issue as well:
WesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5395 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2407 times:
Quoting EK156 (Reply 13): . The new generation will eventually make the difference and time will only tell
Smartest post on a.net. EVER. You sir, have my respect.
Woohoo! Back to Beirut in Oct '13! (Along with a stop in DOH for 4 days)
Slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6518 posts, RR: 37 Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2394 times:
Quoting EK156 (Reply 13): These are laws of the past and the current UAE young generation are educated and don't follow such rules.
I hate to sound cynical or skeptical, but several centuries of history would indicate otherwise.
We'll find out a few centuries from now as to whether that's the case. But since 632AD, it hasn't been. Those aren't the laws of the past--they are Islamic law, correct or incorrect?
Quoting Slider (Reply 15): I hate to sound cynical or skeptical, but several centuries of history would indicate otherwise.
We'll find out a few centuries from now as to whether that's the case. But since 632AD, it hasn't been. Those aren't the laws of the past--they are Islamic law, correct or incorrect?
Enlighten me what does the Islamic law say about hitting the wife?
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2374 times:
Quoting falstaff (Reply 6): I don't think men should beat their wives and kids, but I don't want to tell the government of the UAE, or any other country, what to do.
Not in all cultures it isn't. And this is one of them.
Quoting EK156 (Reply 13): The new generation will eventually make the difference and time will only tell
This is the situation generally. Countries/cultures evolve over many many decades/centuries. This I'm sure will happen in the UAE too.
The UAE is in many senses a very multi cultured society already, so I would imagine we will not have to wait to long for there to be a major shift in what people think is appropriate or not.
Quoting Slider (Reply 15): I hate to sound cynical or skeptical, but several centuries of history would indicate otherwise.
We'll find out a few centuries from now as to whether that's the case. But since 632AD, it hasn't been. Those aren't the laws of the past--they are Islamic law, correct or incorrect?
Dose the UAE today look anything like it did in 632AD ?
I very much doubt that.
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2334 times:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 9): That's not the way it works, at all. No Christian church I've ever been to teaches this. Sounds like you're just making this up for some lousy agenda.
Please enlighten me as to the agenda I'm pushing. And I didn't say it was widely practiced, or even Biblically correct- but there are weirdos out there- do a google search, and don't flame me for your own ignorance of the sick stuff that goes on in the world.
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 12): No Christian church or supreme court in any Christian country says its ok to whack your wife. What a load of BS.
That was my point, thank you very much. Civilized countries do not allow this. The UAE, under all the glitz and glamour, is not a civilized country.
StuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1781 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2274 times:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 9): Man is "spiritual" head of household
That just sounds ludicrous! What does that even mean?
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2216 times:
Quoting N537FX (Reply 18): On that note, why don't you leave places like Israel alone for them to handle their affairs.
This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
If you cannot see the difference between how Israel conducts itself on the international stage, and this issue in the UAE then I suggest you go back to doing some more study, quickly.
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
prebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6019 posts, RR: 55 Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2215 times:
Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 20): Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 9):
Man is "spiritual" head of household
That just sounds ludicrous! What does that even mean?
Sorry StucklnCA, can't answer your question. So I did as I used to do in such a situation, I asked my wife.
She is totally with you - it just sounds ludicrous.
But thinking of it, it may be some misinterpretation of some old scripts.
In old days when some scripts were written - including the Bible - the societies were organized in an entirely different way. A "family" was somewhat wider and different than what we are used to. It wasn't just two - wife and husband - but three:
1. Wife (or sometimes wives) - to constantly give birth to children and raise them, period.
2. Slaves - to do all the physical work to sustain the family.
3. And finally the husband (man) who was left over with no other duties than exchange "rules" with other families and interprete them for wife and slaves, and maybe even learn to read and write, or at least have access to people who could read and write.
I have met Christian people who every time they read the word "man" or "husband" in their Bible, then they read it as "an adult individual with a dick between the legs". While the meaning of the writers often was "a person who has the time and other resources to engage in the wider aspects of society", we may for short call it "an educated person".
In a modern society we are doing our best to educate all individuals - to fit into the old time category 3 above. Category 1 and 2 do not exist any more.
In other words, we must be aware that often a simple google translation of 2000 years old Hebrew or Greek scrips are not always valid, but the word "man" in reality sometines means "an educated person".
We only need to read a hundred years old newspapers to see some funny things which we don't understand word for word. No wonder that some brain power is needed for always having correct interpretation of 2000 years old scripts. Whatever we read, we shall do our best to understand what the writer wanted to tell us.
Finally I think we have come forward to a correct modern day translation of "Man is "spiritual" head of household", a translation which could be approved by the writer:
"Everybody (except infants and seriously mentally ill individuals) shall play their natural role to their best ability in leading and sustaining the wellbeing of the family".
It makes sense. At least my wife approved it.
[Edited 2010-10-20 18:22:31]
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
Airstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1858 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2190 times:
Quoting EK156 (Reply 12): This is the original article from the original source rather than the other media sources who only seem to report the negative or controversial side of the story
Thank you ssssssoooo much for this link, EK156. It was refreshing to hear more of the story from a less biased - or at least differently biased source.
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2176 times:
Quoting EK156 (Reply 12): I am totally against any beating of anyone
Please know that I do believe you, and I don't have any reason to think you are a bad person. Your government is not the only one which needs to change its ways.
What's to debate? I seriously doubt that there is anyone on A.net who is going to come along and say this isn't a disturbing, disgusting ruling.
Quoting EK156 (Reply 12): This is the original article from the original source rather than the other media sources who only seem to report the negative or controversial side of the story
I am totally against any beating of anyone and I know alot of Emaratis from the new generation who also are totally against any kind of beating of any family member. These are laws of the past and the current UAE young generation are educated and don't follow such rules. The Emarati girls are educated and some of them occupy high positions in the UAE government. These Sharia Laws must and will eventually change cause times have changed. Also people have changed and life has changed.
Unfortunately one statement from a judge that has been reported by hundreds of international media has made the UAE people, arabs and more look like cave people. That is not fair to generalize. Things don't change over night, but they are changing. Honor Killing, the worst ever rule or law that can be even thought off, is illegal and punishable by law in many arab and muslim countries, yet immediately people start commenting about it everytime there is the slightest article to make the arabs look like animals. But you know what, I only blame ourselves for all this, when we can be working harder to improve education, living standards and much more, and stop crying foul on this and that. The new generation will eventually make the difference and time will only tell
Today the Judicial Chief has added a note on this issue as well:
Great post! It's always nice to see examples of people who are bringing new good direction to the future!
Quoting Slider (Reply 14): I hate to sound cynical or skeptical, but several centuries of history would indicate otherwise.
What in the world does that mean? Cultures change quickly. Would you say to a young person in the 1950s from the south who said he was against segregation that "history would indicate otherwise"? Women in Switzerland didn't get the vote until 1971. Would you tell a young Swiss person in 1965 who said that would soon change because it was ridiculous, and that his generation knew so, that "history would indicate otherwise"?
the hell it isn't. We all live in the same world, and we all have a right, and sometimes a duty to be aware of human rights abuses around that world. While I agree that it is good to start in one's own back yard (and we in the US have plenty to start with! As do you in Australia, etc., and as does everyone else) there is nothing wrong with being aware of what is going on elsewhere. International pressure often helps things improve, especially in countries that depend on tourism and foreign investment (not so much North Korea...)
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38505 posts, RR: 80 Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2145 times:
Quoting n229nw (Reply 23): I seriously doubt that there is anyone on A.net who is going to come along and say this isn't a disturbing, disgusting ruling.
We already have someone that seems to be OK with it.
I of course will not point any fingers.
Quoting n229nw (Reply 23): We all live in the same world, and we all have a right, and sometimes a duty to be aware of human rights abuses around that world. While I agree that it is good to start in one's own back yard (and we in the US have plenty to start with! As do you in Australia, etc., and as does everyone else) there is nothing wrong with being aware of what is going on elsewhere. International pressure often helps things improve, especially in countries that depend on tourism and foreign investment (not so much North Korea...)
Though it's not necessary to send in troops over this but it's good to be aware. We can all do our part by boycotting this phony facade of a place. Don't fly any of their airlines and don't visit the UAE.
The more exposure this gets, the better. When/if their oil dries up, all they'll be stuck with is a bunch of empty skyscrapers and parked A380s with nowhere to go.
Bring back the Concorde
25 DocLightning: Oh, on the contrary, it's a lot of our business and your business. EK flies to your country and employs your citizens (I know that because the last E
26 Springbok747: It has been known for a long time that behind all the glitz and glamor there is a dark side.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7985361.stm
27 TheCol: The world came together a long time ago because everyone agreed that the line had to be drawn somewhere. This is the line: http://www.un.org/en/docum
28 Mudboy: If and When we pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan it will have a huge economic empact on Dubai. A very high percentage of Contractors in both Iraq and
29 RamblinMan: I was never in denial, but you have to admit they manage to put up one heck of a front. I usually don't agree that low-wage workers are being treated
30 directorguy: Good question. There is a verse in the Quran that says that should women should be reprimanded by their husbands when they do something wrong. Now, t
31 Maverick623: Hogwash. While I appreciate EK156's post about how things are changing, but can't change overnight, the articles posted really say nothing new. This
32 DocLightning: Well, not to drag it back off topic, but there are ways to avoid that issue.
33 RamblinMan: That's good to hear. Yet this court ruling happened. This is why we should not make this a religious thing... it is 100% about the government of the
34 Springbok747: Yeah pretty much. I've heard stories from people about their passports being confiscated etc. It happens in many Middle Eastern countries, not just t
35 TheCommodore: I just feel that we interfere in other countries domestic situations far to much and usually come off second best as history will dictate. This was a
36 RamblinMan: Things like this are, of course, not worth starting a war, or even imposing sanctions. But that doesn't stop me from disliking the place because of i
37 TheCommodore: I am sure these workers have the heads up as to whats going to happen with passports once they arrive. There is an extensive network of other workers
38 DocLightning: On the contrary. In those countries, religion and law are one and the same.
39 Maverick623: Look up the definition of "Sharia law". Which, by the way, was the basis for the judge's ruling.
40 Slider: Thanks for jumping in there, directorguy.... Wonder if there's any rebuttal to that...
41 directorguy: There are several rebuttals-search 'hitting women in Islam' and you'll find all sorts of links, written by people who clearly explain their argument.
42 RamblinMan: Uhhh...the court ruling which started this thread is a rebuttal to that. And this sort of thing: I had not heard that one. All I can say is...wow. It
43 Slider: Precisely right. That remains one of THE largest stumbling blocks to the West's understanding of Islam. We see it through our eyes as a religion, yet
44 777way: Exactly its ridiculous, I think many scholsars are also preplexed by Islam and dont know what to make of some of its literal harsh commandments, so w
45 TheCol: It doesn't matter, the majority has spoken. What part of Sharia Law isn't religious extremism? It's amazing you don't see your own bias.
46 TheCommodore: Oh but it dose matter, very much, Thats why the the UN is still a going concern. Although for how much longer, I haven't a clue. Was there not more t
47 Quokka: Zakat (the poor tax), trade, inheritance... Sharia covers much more than questions of crime and punishment. Long before most western countries recogn
48 DocLightning: On the contrary, it certainly does. Turkey is an example. But much like Christian extremists here, their Muslim extremists are trying to establish a
49 TheCol: So what? The fact remains that Sharia Law is implemented by Islamic extremists for Islamic extremists and their victims. Nothing worth noting. Oh, pl
50 directorguy: That does happen. I see/hear lots of women who are highly educated, well-traveled and have seen the world with their own eyes yet are quite content t
51 TheCommodore: We are all waiting for your answer. If you cant see the difference (between these countries which I think your referring to) then this conversation i
52 fridgmus: Yeah, they'll feel it, but not as much as you would think, unfortunately. Dubai itself does not have that much oil and they know it. They get the bul
53 Steeler83: Fair enough. Lord knows nobody can pay me to go there. I think male chauvinism is a crock of itself, but those guys over there take it to a whole new
54 TheCol: Of course I don't, because I see no point in turning a blind eye to some countries and not others.
55 Quokka: Merely answered your question. If you want to ignore the facts, that's fine. And if you wish to identify everyone who practices Islam as an extremist
56 DocLightning: I'd answer but the last time I brought this up the post was pulled, so start a separate thread. Kthxbye!
57 777way: UAE is not practising Sharia, have you seen the hookers and biki We also see the West this way as racist towards others, because a small fringe practi
58 lewis: Although tourists in bikinis would not be stoned to death in UAE, according to some friends from there many aspects of the law are based on Sharia.
59 Slider: Watch their actions...the secular slant is purely window dressing. They do not and will not act in a manner inconsistent with Islamic doctrines. Yeah
60 TheCol: That wasn't my intention. Interpreted by the authorities or constituents? Quite true, and, IMHO, it wouldn't be a stretch to hold some Western countr
61 DocLightning: Like banning the Hijab in public? They'd never do that... oh wait, they did.
62 777way: You are right Turkey have finally allowed women to wear Hijab in academic institutes, finally good sense prevailed.
63 cws818: Well, given the amount of time that has passed since Ataturk, those are some really long-lasting curtains!
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3448 posts, 
From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, 
From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1569 posts, 
From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, 
From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1448 posts, 
From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6019 posts, 
source.
From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38505 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
