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Can Someone Please Define Biblical Marriage?  
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3166 posts, RR: 9
Posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2440 times:

A woman who was running for regional political office came into our congregation last week. She gave me a pamphlet which outlined her platform. I was appalled at what she stood for, though I understand that not everyone agrees with my political views.

However, not only was she anti gay marriage. She listed all the ways in which being gay is a mental illness. It really bothered me.

Anyway, she went on in her pamphlet about how we need to get back to Biblical marriage. I asked her to define that for me, and she said, "One man, one woman." I pointed out that very few families in the Bible were about a man being married to one woman. She did not like my confrontation with her. I asked, "How many wives did Jacob have?" She couldn't answer.

So I'll ask here... If we are to be intellectually honest, what is biblical marriage?


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineiflykpdx From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw

All your answers are right there 



Airport Management - UND
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

That was hystrical! I do find it funny that people pick and choose what they want to believe is in the Bible, as long as it in their favor.


You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineflyerboy1990 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

I am currently going to a Christian-based university and do consider myself Christian, but do not share the typical views about the gay lifestyle.

We just had a speaker who spoke in chapel 2 days this week on what it means to be gay and to identify oneself. He made a great point in saying that he doesn't believe it is completely nurtured, but there may be some biological aspect to it as well. I too believe this.

Now to answer the question, biblical marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman. It is supposed to be a courtship, with simple dating and not too much intimacy (and of course sex). Sex is supposed to wait until after marriage.
With gay marriage, I don't really care if they want to come together and be married. It's not like they are trying to get married in a church or something. They are being married in the presence of government and the church doesn't have to recognize it.

Your reference to Jacob isn't completely accurate. The Bible doesn't actually speak on polygamy and I'm honestly not sure why God allowed these important people to have "multiple wives." But I do know that if a man married a woman, and then took another woman, it was technically adultery. But with Abraham, he allowed him to have Sarah and her maid, Hagar. I guess I will have to ask my Bible professor tonight!



Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3166 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):
It's not like they are trying to get married in a church or something.

Actually, Rabbis and Ministers have been officiated at same-gender marriages for decades, in the houses of worship and elsewhere. Gay marriage, in ways ways, follows a traditional paradigm. I've officiated at many gay marriages in our congregation.

How ironic that it is taking the government so long to catch up!

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):
I guess I will have to ask my Bible professor tonight!

While you are at it, ask about David's wives and Solomon's wives!

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):
It is supposed to be a courtship, with simple dating and not too much intimacy

Where does any of this exist in the Bible?



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineiairallie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
A woman who was running for regional political office came into our congregation last week

I beg your pardon she did what???? She came to your CHURCH to CAMPAIGN. Your church should lose it's tax exempt status this is completely unethical.


User currently offlineflyerboy1990 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 4):
Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):
It's not like they are trying to get married in a church or something.

Actually, Rabbis and Ministers have been officiated at same-gender marriages for decades, in the houses of worship and elsewhere. Gay marriage, in ways ways, follows a traditional paradigm. I've officiated at many gay marriages in our congregation.

How ironic that it is taking the government so long to catch up!

So your church agrees with gay marriage? How well does that go over with the Christian community where you live?

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 4):
Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):
I guess I will have to ask my Bible professor tonight!

While you are at it, ask about David's wives and Solomon's wives!

Again, I'm not so sure about their "wife" status and why God would allow these influential people to do that.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 4):
Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):
It is supposed to be a courtship, with simple dating and not too much intimacy

Where does any of this exist in the Bible?

It doesn't, but it's implied. I don't necessarily believe that's how it should be.

I admit, I'm struggling in following what I am "supposed to believe" at this school. I have an issue that is totally against Christian values, but I feel that I have a relationship with God and that I'm saved. But I am wrestling Him with this one thing!



Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 6):
It doesn't, but it's implied.

I'm not trying to bug you, but where is it implied?



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3166 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 6):
But I am wrestling Him with this one thing!

I, like you, wrestle with God often. I think that's what we are supposed to be doing. All the Biblical ancestors wrestled with God, and many even changed God's mind in the process!

Just for clarification, I am Jewish, not Christian, so we are in a synagogue, not church! Gay marriage is fully accepted by the Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist movements (though individuals within the movements may have opinions that are independent).

Our congregation (Reform), and most Reform congregations march in favor of gay marriage.

While much of the country lumps Religion with the Right (conservative), there is a huge Religious Left as well!



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3166 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2277 times:

Quoting iairallie (Reply 5):
I beg your pardon she did what???? She came to your CHURCH to CAMPAIGN. Your church should lose it's tax exempt status this is completely unethical.

Please don't be so quick to assume anything! Our congregation will not and does not endorse a candidate. But we can acknowledge if a candidate is visiting, so long as they do not solicit while on synagogue grounds.



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19617 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):

Your reference to Jacob isn't completely accurate. The Bible doesn't actually speak on polygamy and I'm honestly not sure why God allowed these important people to have "multiple wives."

Because God had nothing to do with it? That's what was societally accepted at that time.

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 6):
I have an issue that is totally against Christian values, but I feel that I have a relationship with God and that I'm saved. But I am wrestling Him with this one thing!

Wait... but who told you that God is against the "gay lifestyle"? What is the "gay lifestyle"?


User currently offlineflyerboy1990 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Wait... but who told you that God is against the "gay lifestyle"? What is the "gay lifestyle"?

My university and most churches. In the OT, it says do not lie with a man as you would a woman. And Sodom and Gomorrah were both destroyed by God because of their lifestyle of having sex with the same gender.



Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3166 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 11):
My university and most churches. In the OT, it says do not lie with a man as you would a woman. And Sodom and Gomorrah were both destroyed by God because of their lifestyle of having sex with the same gender.

Keep in mind that neither the word "gay" nor the work "homosexual" appear at all in the Bible. So it really isn't accurate to say that the Bible is against the gay lifestyle.

True, the Bible does talk about men not lying with men. The Bible also tells us to stone to death those who work on Shabbat. The Bible also tells us to sacrifice animals.

Now, with regard to Sodom and Gomorrah.... Please tell me where it gives this as the reason for why they were destroyed? Sure, there was lawlessness..... But I thought that it was about rape among men, not sex among men.



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19617 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 11):

My university and most churches.

I see. And who in those institutions had a hotline to God available? Or you just believing what you were told?


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2234 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 3):
Now to answer the question, biblical marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman. It is supposed to be a courtship, with simple dating and not too much intimacy (and of course sex). Sex is supposed to wait until after marriage.

You've lost me. If biblical marriage is a courtship sans sex, is there another form of marriage beyond biblical marriage, after which sex is permissible?

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 11):
In the OT, it says do not lie with a man as you would a woman.

Do we really need to run through all the other things the Old Testament says not to do that are perfectly acceptable to Christians these days?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineiairallie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 9):

Please don't be so quick to assume anything! Our congregation will not and does not endorse a candidate. But we can acknowledge if a candidate is visiting, so long as they do not solicit while on synagogue grounds.

She gave you a political pamphlet while visiting your church that is a campaigning activity and is illegal.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
I see. And who in those institutions had a hotline to God available? Or you just believing what you were told?

You can add what other passages do you pick and choose to believe in, as well (whether you thinking it or you being told to think it).



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7893 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

Churches really need to get their priorities straight in my opinion. Stop condemning gays, invite them into the congregation! You may believe what you want, but "judge not lest ye be judged." I used to be anti-gay, then I wasn't, but I thought about how a gay man could be Christian, then I realized that that really isn't my business either! I cannot judge what he thinks. If he's fine with it in his head and has a good relationship with God, I do not even need to judge whether his mindset is even flawed or not.

I wish more Christians would go through what I have. They've lost touch with the teachings of Jesus. Accept all in worship, not stigmatize them. Sorry for my rant there.

Here is a question I have. The Bible was written by humans, so you can see where errors would come in, but did JESUS ever say anything about gay marriage?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinegosimeon From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

I won't get involved too much here, but I just want to say that referring to us gays as people living a "gay lifestyle" is just plain silly. There is no "gay lifestyle" as such. I mean, I know people who know very few gay people personally will have misconceptions about us, thinking we are all flamboyant or promiscuous or whatever, but for the most part that isn't true.

I'm gay, and my 'lifestyle' is pretty much the same as most people, except I like the same sex. Calling it a lifestyle also implies the one's sexuality is a choice, which I can assure you it is not. Heck, think about it, could you just decide tomorrow you like guys? No? Exactly... Sexuality is not a choice or disorder or lifestyle. It is a single characteristic of an individual, all of whom are different and lead different lives. Referring to my sexuality as a "lifestyle choice" is just plain insulting TBH, and hints at the assumptions people draw on gay people.

As for "Bible Based Marriage", that is utter rubbish. The Bible caters for slavery, polygamy, a very subordinate position for women and arranged marriages. People just use the Bible as a tool for their political views sometimes, and marriage is one such area where they do so.

Anyway, that's my lil' rant over for the night. Carry on.  


User currently offlineflyerboy1990 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Okay, you all make very good points and you have called me out on some things. Despite being pro-gay marriage, I just believe that it really isn't God's intention for men to be with men and women to be with women, at least in the eyes of the church.


Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 19):
I just believe that it really isn't God's intention for men to be with men and women to be with women, at least in the eyes of the church.

Out of curiosity, what do the eyes of the church have to do with it? I thought the purpose of the church was to teach the intentions of God, not to determine them as well.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineflyerboy1990 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2126 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 19):
I just believe that it really isn't God's intention for men to be with men and women to be with women, at least in the eyes of the church.

Out of curiosity, what do the eyes of the church have to do with it? I thought the purpose of the church was to teach the intentions of God, not to determine them as well.

-Mir

That is what I mean. I believe that He does not approve of the marriage and my church and school teaches this. And in teaching what we think God thinks, we are in a sense determining what he thinks. I don't think there is a difference. But government and society will recognize gay marriage when it's passed. That's all.



Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19617 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2113 times:

Quoting flyerboy1990 (Reply 19):
Despite being pro-gay marriage, I just believe that it really isn't God's intention for men to be with men and women to be with women, at least in the eyes of the church.

I thought God was supposed to be all-powerful. If he didn't intend it, then why did he make me this way?


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6618 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2079 times:

Biblical marriage is really just what marriage was at the time the bible was written (and for most of the world still is, Christian or not). One woman and one man, because that's how you can make children, and no sex before (for the woman anyway) because men want to be sure that their children are their children.

That's all in theory of course, in practice it's more loose and always was, so the idea of "coming back to" some ideal past is quite funny.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
So I'll ask here... If we are to be intellectually honest, what is Biblical marriage?

A man and a woman joined by God. Matthew 19 has a good message about what God does - and what we call marriage.


25 EWRCabincrew : What of the other passages of marriage? Why just choose the one?
26 Mudboy : Biblical Marriage is when your Girlfriend talks you into giving up all your money, pimped out ride, freedom, hanging out with the guys, women and fun,
27 zrs70 : She gave me (the rabbi) a pamphlet and I gave it back to her and told her she could not give them out. Nothing illegal there.
28 iairallie : Whether or not you gave it back does nothting to negate the illegality of her act.
29 Quokka : Excuse my ignorance, as I am not completely familiar with US taxation and electoral law, but why would handing out a pamphlet be illegal? Doesn't the
30 Baroque : And hysterically funny too. Just shows what you can do with a bit of diligence and a few thousand year old bit of state propaganda.
31 iairallie : IRC § 501(c)(3) organizations may not do such things as make statements that endorse or oppose a candidate, publish or distribute campaign literatur
32 zrs70 : Excuse me, the rabbi received campaign literature from the candidate and gave it back.
33 MD11Engineer : The question is do you mean the Old Testament (essentially the Tora) or the New Testament? There are about 1500 years inbetween (concerning the conte
34 iairallie : Not until he shared it with you first. Damage was done.
35 tugger : It is not illegal. In fact a candidate may show up and talk to parishioners and hand out materials. A politician could hand as many pamphlets as they
36 planespotting : Here's what Paul had to say about it: 1 Corinthians 7 (King James version): 1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man
37 Post contains images captaink : The word gay doesn´t appear because we practically gave it the meaning it has. My grandparents used the word gay, to refer to being happy, end of st
38 zrs70 : Good point. But that said, all the heroes of the Bible argued with God. And most of the time, God's attitude changed. I think we should do the same t
39 Post contains images captaink : Interesting perspective.. I like it..
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