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'Arizona Style' Immigration Law Proposed In Texas  
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2707 posts, RR: 8
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news...e.html?feed=119078&article=7811998

Quote:
Less than an hour after the period began for filing bills for consideration in the 2011 Legislative session, State Rep. Debbie Riddle (R-Tomball), a leader of the newly muscular conservatives in the Legislature, filed an 'Arizona style' measure that would crack down on illegal immigration.
Quote:
Riddle's measure would also deny all state funds to any community which declares itself a 'sanctuary city' and refuses to aggressively enforce immigration laws.

Nice to see another state backing up Arizona. The sanctuary city portion of the bill is a good addition. The cities and towns need to follow the laws on the books or face repercussion's.

Florida should also be coming up with their own bill soon. Attorney General elect Pam Bondi ran on continueing the lawsuit against Obamacare and Installing a Arizona style Immigration law.


OMG-Obama Must Go
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Good. All the power to them.

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

God Bless Texas. This is needed. The Sanctuary city portion is key. Governors of states with sanctuary cities should take notice.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19389 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

As long as they don't violate the 16th Amendment, I support them.

User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2628 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

Since I used to live in San Francisco, a city that set aside hundreds of thousands of dollars in PUBLIC MONEY to provide legal defense for illegal immigrants who had committed felonies on our soil, I am relieved and elated to see measures like Representative Riddle's moving forward.

The complaints that come from the left about legislation like this are so exasperatingly ignorant. There are still myriad people who believe that Arizona's SB1070 would empower cops to harass "anyone they suspect" to be here illegally, ignoring the simple concrete fact that it only calls for an immigration status check after someone's been arrested for something else.

And there's this pearl, from "Democrats like State Rep. Mike Villarreal (D-San Antonio)," who "say they'll fight Riddle's proposal."

"He tells 1200 WOAI news that every study which has been conducted on illegal immigration in Texas has found that stopping it would strangle the state's economy."

Does he believe this bill's aim is to "stop illegal immigration?" And genuinely not understand that it targets criminals?? Condolences to Texas then, that Representative Villareal is in office.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8845 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
"He tells 1200 WOAI news that every study which has been conducted on illegal immigration in Texas has found that stopping it would strangle the state's economy."

What a crock of bull dinky, I wonder how we existed for all these years without being buried by illegals. I mean, how did we man the resturants, provide the housekeepers, nannies, yard work, handyman, day work, construction, non-union of course, and all those important jobs they do. They have provided jobs in law enforcement, border patrol, drug enforcement, charity, health, and teachers and interpreters. I somehow think we can survive. Go Texas.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
"He tells 1200 WOAI news that every study which has been conducted on illegal immigration in Texas has found that stopping it would strangle the state's economy."

To all those that say that stopping illegal immigration or putting better controls on immigration to reduce illegal immigration would "strangle" the economy (state or national) I say "Fine".

OK lets see if it does "strangle" the economy, if it does we can certainly change and revise any laws to minimize any harm to the economy. We can adjust it all. Any problems that may be caused provide new and good information to inform the discussion instead of just hot air or "what could/will happen" being spewed.

The key thing is it needs to be better controlled. Illegal immigration needs to be reduced and penalties for it enforced.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13035 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

Most police forces, including in Arizona, believe such laws as SB1070 and proposed in Texas will make it worse for citizens, legal resident and legal visitors to deal with criminal situations as victims or witnesses. That is wrong.

As to sanctuary, would they go after Catholic and Christian churches, many of which in the USA assist illegals as they cannot go to the police or government agencies? They could threaten their non-profit status for harboring illegal, but I doubt they would do that or they would lose many votes of the Bible thumpers.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8845 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
As to sanctuary, would they go after Catholic and Christian churches, many of which in the USA assist illegals as they cannot go to the police or government agencies? They could threaten their non-profit status for harboring illegal, but I doubt they would do that or they would lose many votes of the Bible thumpers.

I support the churchs being sanctioned somehow for their support of illegals. I think the actual number of activists in the churchs is small. I know one of them personally, you cannot reason with them, bleeding hearts, shall we say.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4273 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Earlier this year, Perry said he would not support any such measure that came across his desk. One of the few times I agreed with him. We'll see if it sees debate or if it gets canned by Gov'nor Good Hair.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

As far as I'm concerned, these are nothing but racist measures since white people are not really asked for true proof of citizenship.

If they pass this, people should be incarcerated unless they can produce a US passport, none of this state driver's license BS. That has nothing to do with citizenship.


User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2739 times:

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 10):
As far as I'm concerned, these are nothing but racist measures since white people are not really asked for true proof of citizenship.

Sure we are. We're asked for proof of citizenship (license, registration, and insurance) every time we are pulled over for a traffic violation, for instance. Brown people don't get to break our laws just because they are brown. Our laws apply to everyone.

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 10):

If they pass this, people should be incarcerated unless they can produce a US passport, none of this state driver's license BS. That has nothing to do with citizenship.

I'd be alright with this. Give a 90-day window for people to get passports, and reduce the fees to do so. Every single illegal would end up in jail. Is that what you want?


User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2736 times:

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 11):
Sure we are. We're asked for proof of citizenship (license, registration, and insurance) every time we are pulled over for a traffic violation, for instance.

Those are in no way proof of citizenship.

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 11):
I'd be alright with this. Give a 90-day window for people to get passports, and reduce the fees to do so. Every single illegal would end up in jail. Is that what you want?

How about an honest and consistent message that does not discriminate? As for passport for everybody, why not a national ID card? Lots of countries have these.


User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 12):

Those are in no way proof of citizenship.

In most states you need to be a citizen to get a driver's license.

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 12):
How about an honest and consistent message that does not discriminate? As for passport for everybody, why not a national ID card? Lots of countries have these.

Sure, I'd be in favor of a national ID card as long as only US citizens can obtain one. And then, like you suggested, lock up everyone that doesn't have one.


User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 13):
In most states you need to be a citizen to get a driver's license.

Which states? I can't think of a single state that requires US citizenship to get a driver's license.

Keep in mind legal resident isn't the same thing as citizen. Also, legal residency is not necessarily permanent.

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 13):
Sure, I'd be in favor of a national ID card as long as only US citizens can obtain one. And then, like you suggested, lock up everyone that doesn't have one.

Holy crap! You would lock up all foreign business people, tourists and students!?!? That's a bit too xenophobic for me.

[Edited 2010-11-08 23:02:30]

User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 14):
Which states? I can't think of a single state that requires US citizenship to get a driver's license.

Some states require SSN's, which illegal immigrants do not have.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19389 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 8):
I know one of them personally, you cannot reason with them, bleeding hearts, shall we say.

Yes, Christianity is a bleeding-heart liberal religion if practiced correctly.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):

What a crock of bull dinky, I wonder how we existed for all these years without being buried by illegals.

Well, given that Texas used to be part of Mexico, you actually didn't exist without Mexicans. Ever.

Illegal immigration across the Mexican border is about as old as the border itself and illegal immigrants have been a part of our economy from the dawn of our economy. As early as 1921, Mexican illegal immigration was already fueling our economy. There was a significant dip during the 1930's (Great Depression) when many went back to Mexico because they fared better there. But after the end of WWII it picked right back up.

Basically, at no point since the establishment of the Mexico-US border has illegal immigration not been an issue and at no point since has illegal immigrant labor not been a major economic force.

Now, I'm not defending illegal immigration by any means. I fully support any means to stop it. They burden the welfare system and the criminal justice system. But one thing is for sure: they do NOT take away jobs from Americans because no American would ever work for the pay and working conditions that illegals do.

If all illegal immigrants were snatched up by space aliens tomorrow, Americans (and I'm including legal resident aliens in that word for our purposes here) would have to pick up the slack. But an American costs 3-5x as much as an illegal immigrant. That means that all of our produce would become *much* more expensive. So would restaurant meals. Everything. An apple would go from 50¢ to $2-3. In other words, a vast devaluation of the Dollar.

So what are we to do? Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

Well, first of all, we have to accept that if we really want to tackle this we're all going to have to pony up some more cash. But the solution is a "guest worker" program, much like many other countries use. This would be a permit that would allow an immigrant to come here and work with no citizenship path attached to it. And some conditions. For example: no having kids, no offenses higher than a civil infraction (we're not going to kick them out over a parking ticket), no welfare, you pay taxes, etc. There would also have to be conditions on employers of guest laborers, like covering their healthcare, minimum wages (which would be lower than the standard American minimum wage), etc.

The other thing we need to do is de-incentivise illegal immigration. One big reason they come is to make a better future for their children. They come here and start having babies. If we repealed the 16th amendment and took away jus soil, that would come to a screeching halt. For all the liberal braying I hear about human rights and what a travesty it would be with babies without a nationality, it's a bunch of horsedung. Very few countries have jus soil and almost all countries will grant automatic nationality to the child of a national, regardless of location of birth. There would be no "nationless" children. The newborn would be a Mexican citizen and would be deported back to Mexico with the parents.

But, unfortunately, these policies must be done at a national level. They aren't going to work on a state level. All they are going to do is cripple the economies of the states that get "tough on immigration," especially when there is no substitute guest worker program.

There's also the issue that LEGALLY immigrating to the United States is next to impossible. And we need to fix that.


User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2718 times:

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 15):
Some states require SSN's, which illegal immigrants do not have.

Neither do legal foreign nationals! As far as I know, all states make exceptions for non-citizen that have legal residency at the time of application. Thus, those people do not need to provide an SSN.

Now please answer the question.

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 14):
Which states? I can't think of a single state that requires US citizenship to get a driver's license.

Which states require US citizenship in order to obtain a driver's license? Name at least one.


User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2718 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
So what are we to do? Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

Well, first of all, we have to accept that if we really want to tackle this we're all going to have to pony up some more cash. But the solution is a "guest worker" program, much like many other countries use. This would be a permit that would allow an immigrant to come here and work with no citizenship path attached to it. And some conditions. For example: no having kids, no offenses higher than a civil infraction (we're not going to kick them out over a parking ticket), no welfare, you pay taxes, etc. There would also have to be conditions on employers of guest laborers, like covering their healthcare, minimum wages (which would be lower than the standard American minimum wage), etc.

The other thing we need to do is de-incentivise illegal immigration. One big reason they come is to make a better future for their children. They come here and start having babies. If we repealed the 16th amendment and took away jus soil, that would come to a screeching halt. For all the liberal braying I hear about human rights and what a travesty it would be with babies without a nationality, it's a bunch of horsedung. Very few countries have jus soil and almost all countries will grant automatic nationality to the child of a national, regardless of location of birth. There would be no "nationless" children. The newborn would be a Mexican citizen and would be deported back to Mexico with the parents.

But, unfortunately, these policies must be done at a national level. They aren't going to work on a state level. All they are going to do is cripple the economies of the states that get "tough on immigration," especially when there is no substitute guest worker program.

I agree with all of this. Very well-put.


User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 17):
Which states require US citizenship in order to obtain a driver's license? Name at least one.

In MS you have to show your SS Card, and proof of residence, in the form of an electric or phone bill with your address on it. I don't know about other states?


User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 19):
In MS you have to show your SS Card, and proof of residence, in the form of an electric or phone bill with your address on it. I don't know about other states?

They actually do make provisions for foreign nationals. Those provisions do stipulate that the license validity is tied to the length of the visa. The problem is that the these things are administered at two different levels, state and federal, and databases are not linked.

You want a clear and consistent immigration and ID system? Get the states out of it and have it managed centrally by the federal government.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 10):
If they pass this, people should be incarcerated unless they can produce a US passport, none of this state driver's license BS. That has nothing to do with citizenship.

However I am fine if people are detained briefly for further verification if they cannot produce a drivers license (while driving). I will happily produce my license and so should anyone driving. Anyone who cannot produce a drivers license should not be to bothered with a few extra steps needed to verify ones identity. It is important (from not eluding outstanding warrants etc., to needing your identity for the purpose of having at ticket issued for driving without a license).

I know that the one time I did not have my license on my when I was pulled over the officer politely asked me for other information (SSN, home address) and with my insurance card in hand went and checked if I was who I said I was. Once the problem was cleared up I was sent on my way (with a ticket, yea...)

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 17):
Now please answer the question.

I understand your question and your reason for asking however I believe it is just a misunderstanding/misstatement that is causing the problem. I do not think the intent was that people need "citizenship" but rather "legal residency". Ultimately everyone understands the difference but in haste may say "citizen" in error.

So as regarding CA, here is what they say:

Quote:
Social security number (SSN) requirement

The Social Security Act allows any state to use the SSN to establish the identification of an individual. The California Vehicle Code requires the collection of the social security number.

All applicants must submit to DMV their social security number.....
*(.... etc., etc. link here for full text: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm )

Exception to the SSN requirement:

If you are legally present in the US, but ineligible for an SSN, you are exempt from SSN requirements. However, you must still provide an acceptable birth date/legal presence document for any DL/ID card application OR provide a valid SSN.

----------

Birth date verification and legal presence requirements

The issue of identification reliability, integrity, and confidentiality is of prime concern to all citizens. Eligibility for government services, issuance of various licenses, assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents. It is critical that identification documents be authenticated and accurate in identifying each individual. The California driver license and ID card have been declared as primary identification documents in this state by the California legislature.

State law requires every applicant for an original California identification (ID) card and driver license to show verification of birth date and proof of legal presence within the United States to help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of departmental documents.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 21):
However I am fine if people are detained briefly for further verification if they cannot produce a drivers license (while driving). I will happily produce my license and so should anyone driving. Anyone who cannot produce a drivers license should not be to bothered with a few extra steps needed to verify ones identity. It is important (from not eluding outstanding warrants etc., to needing your identity for the purpose of having at ticket issued for driving without a license).

I have no problem requiring one to operate a motor vehicle, but there are many cases where people demand one of others not even in a car.

In fact, I remember once when I had my driver's license taken for a speeding ticket and not being able to pay the fine on the spot in exact change. Well, until they mailed it back, I used my passport as ID. At several places I was told that a US passport is not real ID or "Where did you get that funky ID?"

Quoting tugger (Reply 21):
I understand your question and your reason for asking however I believe it is just a misunderstanding/misstatement that is causing the problem. I do not think the intent was that people need "citizenship" but rather "legal residency". Ultimately everyone understands the difference but in haste may say "citizen" in error.

And I believe the fault for that misunderstanding/misstatement lies on those using the incorrect term. By doing so, we fall into the trap of conflating illegal immigrants with legal immigrants and perpetuating discrimination against the latter. That is something I am strongly opposed to.

That misunderstanding/misstatement actually gets taken advantage of by groups on both sides of the debate. There are many who know the difference very well yet still choose to use the wrong term. You'll have conservatives who are against both legal/illegal immigrants trying to promote the "citizen test" and then you get liberals who are for both legal/illegal immigration telling us to turn a blind eye.


In the end, I think we need to realize that immigration issues are the domain of the federal government, and that if you want to use and ID system to determine residency status, that ID system needs to be linked to federal immigration authority.


User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 22):
I used my passport as ID. At several places I was told that a US passport is not real ID or "Where did you get that funky ID?"


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13035 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

When I recently renewed my Drivers License in New Jersey, I used my USA Passport for the Citizenship status requirement. A Passport, along with Government Employee, Military or 'Green Cards' for legal foreign national residents are about the only 'National' ID's the USA offers. The USA is among only a few countries (including the UK) that does not issue a National ID or Citizenship card for all it's citizens although we have defaulted to State issued Drivers Licenses or non-drivers ID card issued by the Motor Vehicle offices.

The nature of our creation, our Republic system, fear of strong central government, all have kept away National ID cards. Of course, if we did require such ID Cards it would make it easier for law enforcement and for employers to determine citizenship status and perhaps help reduce the problem with illegals in the USA and the need for questinable laws like those proposed in Texas.


25 caliatenza : My mom is a Green Card holder and she has a DL in the State of CA...she had one in TX too. So no, a DL is NOT proof of Citizenship in most cases.
26 BlueFlyer : I can't see that law passing. As a voting block, Texan Hispanics are more powerful and better connected than their New Mexican counterparts. Furthermo
27 NIKV69 : It's a no brainer. The national ID card would solve the problem but you have to remember the left in this country doesn't want to solve the problem.
28 mt99 : Please.. How many people here had trouble with filling out the census? Imagine the outrage of the government making you carry a piece of plastic!. Ho
29 DocLightning : My answer: yup. If they don't like it then they can stay in their home countries. So you want to pay guest workers the standard minimum wage? Again,
30 Zentraedi : Don't delude yourself into being a left/right cheerleader. The right in the US also has opposed such national ID measures. Also, saying the left want
31 Slider : Agreed. And while Bill White was a decent mayor and I supported him in Houston, that was one thing he was terribly myopic about. And the murder of HP
32 NIKV69 : Unfortunately this is complete BS though. The left through their inaction and support of cities that turn a blind eye to illegal aliens proves that t
33 mt99 : So to avoid this, you want Americans to be "tagged" by the government via a National ID card?
34 BlueFlyer : Yes, because I don't want to give employers any more reason/incentive than they already have (and there are plenty) to hire foreigners rather than do
35 Zentraedi : That "right" is pundit hysterics. Now lets talk about reality. Yes, the Republicans have offered amnesty several times. When in power they also never
36 DocLightning : The idea of a National ID card was hardly a Conservative idea. I think it was Clinton. Again the Democrats have recently suggested it again, but priv
37 DocLightning : BTW, it will be interesting to see what happens to the economies of TX and AZ. TX has been doing rather well. If it crashes in the wake of the 2010 el
38 WarRI1 : I cannot argue with that, but when they become advocates of lawbreakers, such as immigration law, identity theft, welfare fraud, you name it, are the
39 DocLightning : Someone in your Sunday School hadn't read their gospel, then. But this isn't about Christianity. It will be interesting, however, to see the repercus
40 Mir : I understand the logic, but I feel mighty weird about the idea of creating what amounts to a legal underclass. -Mir
41 Slider : The point that is wholly germane to this argument that oft gets ignored is that we ALREADY have an underclass, a virtual slave class among our ranks
42 DocLightning : Better than an illegal one. And at least in this sense, they're on the books and they aren't slaves. They want to walk, they walk... but they walk ho
43 Yellowstone : Not really. We're a large economy that needs cheap labor. If we want cheap lettuce, and there's people willing to work for a correspondingly low wage
44 WarRI1 : The problem is, that the farm workers are now a small part of the illegal immigration population, they are everywhere, taking any job where the explo
45 Post contains links WarRI1 : The link below goes along with the argument, and shows the reasons why people hire illegals, especially the pay issue. http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/2
46 Yellowstone : How are you screwing the immigrant laborer over? He's making more money than he would have if you hadn't hired him.
47 WarRI1 : When you are using the fact that someone is poor, desparate, and illegal to pay them less money, you are exploiting them. I know that is the Capitali
48 Yellowstone : I think you've got it backwards. They're not being paid less because they're poor/illegal; rather, the job pays so poorly that only the poor/illegal
49 WarRI1 : Well, I do not think so, one can self justify anything. If one can watch desparate people hanging on a corner looking for work to feed themselves, or
50 DocLightning : No it's not. It's still growing. Not as fast as it used to was, but it's still growing.
51 Mir : Take away the illegal component and you've got exactly what is going on in the job market these days - people need work, so they're willing to work f
52 JHCRJ700 : I for one hope the law goes nation wide. For those that argue that this country is built on immigration and immigrant labor forces I say yes you are r
53 DocLightning : Well, that's what's happening. So do we collapse the US economy and screw all the would-be laborers who need the money? That strikes me as by far the
54 Post contains images WarRI1 : Absolutely correct, may I commend you on your opinion, which I agree with absolutely.
55 WarRI1 : I agree. I think we are strong enough to withstand the loss of these illegal folks, Many more waiting in line to get here legally, and they may just
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